BBEGs the Item Edition

[Draconisister]

I have this weird idea about having an intelligent item as a reoccurring BBEG how ever I'm not sure how best to pull this off. I would like to keep the fact that its the item from the PCs as long as possible. They will probably kill the weilder off a few times but what should i do if they decide to take the item?

any thoughts on this idea? and what sorts of fun i can have with such a BBEG?

[JusticeZero]

I recall an enemy in 2E whose MO was that he thought he was doing good things, dealing with portents he saw in his crystal ball, which happened to be cursed. He was divining a big conspiracy of evil that he was duty bound to stop.. None of it was true, the ball was giving false information the whole time. One does not carry a crystal ball into battle. I can imagine an evil cursed book or other informational item manipulating a cabal of deluded flunkies.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I could see this. At lower levels, it's Ego overpowers its wielder, while at higher levels, it's more of a partnership.

[Dessembrae]

Introduce a couple of BBEGs sequentially, with the same motivations/objectives. When describing them, mention the item, but mention it in passing. When the PCs have vanquished 2-3 BBEGs with the same motivations and goals they'll start to put the pieces together, and suspect that another BBEG is operating behind the scenes.


String them along, creating drama and alluding to the "master plan" that the Drow Priestess/Evil Druid/Insane Necromancer/Corrupt politician have all been working towards. Introduce possible suspects and have the PCs investigate them. If possible, make subtle references to the item whenever possible, without making it obvious.


Have an important evil NPC die, but have the spell/magical effect that the PCs expected to end with his death continue, leading the PCs to question who/what's really causing it.


Giving the item the Unholy property should make it less likely that your characters will hang onto it. If you have Evil party members, make the item cursed. Give it the ability to get lost/dropped/stolen until picked up by a character it can dominate without risk of failure.


All in all, a really cool concept. Have you decided what kind of item you want to use? I'd suggest making it a key component in some kind of apocalyptic ritual, or a weapon destined to kill a god, or something like that.

[Draconisister]

I was thinking about it being some sort of sacrificial weapon... possibly. l'm not really sure I haven't put much thought in to other than I want to have the BBEG to be an item

Altho maybe making it like a ring or something might make it a bit easier to hide because an evil cabal might all have rings that look the same as some sort of identification or some thing.

now we must build this evil item of doom who wants to help figure out its abilities

[Slipperychicken]

The BBEGs have contingencies set to teleport the item to safety. When a BBEG dies, his helmet or whatever disappears.

[Draconisister]

having cultist teleport the item away really isn't hiding it. I'm more of a hide things in plain sight kinda gal.
I was thinking that something along the lines of what Justice said would be cool. If one of the PCs picked it up It would give them dreams/visions to make them believe what it wants is a good thing then have the party doing "good" hunted down by a different party trying to stop them.

[XionUnborn01]

This may go against what you're looking for, but one of my favorite things is making something unexpected. A big ritualistic dagger would be highly identifiable, but that walking stick that he doesn't ever set down that's dyed red on the end few inches might be more overlooked.

[Crasical]

An intelligent weapon that's the true source of evil, using various others as it's hosts and pawns? Sounds like Soul Edge to me.

[Lightlawbliss]

I would defiantly make it something everyone could use, a wizard carrying a great sword is a dead giveaway.

BTW: ring has been done, same with generic looking ring (see Lord of The Rings). Not to mention it's a lot harder to do tip offs if the item in question is a ring, then if the item is some weapon or armor or something else you could describe the person as using/carrying/wearing.

[ArcturusV]

I'm thinking amulet/necklace/pendant. These are items that anyone would be conceivably wearing, from monks to wizards, everyone has a use for some magic neck slot item.

... plus I think it's funny that one of it's late game ploys might be choking out whoever had it on. Once it realizes it can't Egojack you, or talk you into something, it goes and just chokes you into submission. Which turns the "villain" into more of a victim. Remove it? It'll choke you. Try to disjunction it or something? Choke interrupt the verbal components.

Depending on how you want the item to be, having it be some cursed version of a phylactery of faithfulness as a base would be almost hilarious. Especially depending on who got a hold of it.

[IIzak]

Have you read the Crystal Shard by R.A. Salvatore? if not give it a read because its a fantastic series (in my opinion) and the artifact Crenshinibon sounds alot like what you're thinking of. Its basically a sentient crystal with the power of a bunch of liches that draws its strength from the sun. It is a wielded thing that grants some spellcasting ability, and the shard has an insatiable need to try and take over everything and expand its armies (lets you dominate monsters and people and make them subservient, raise castles, ect.) very cool item, sounds kinda like something you might want to look into, even if its just for some more ideas

[Draconisister]

That does sorta sound like what I want. I'm still unsure what kind of item i would like this to beand what kind of powers i should give it/it should gran the weilder. can an Item get the leadership feat? making its leadership score = to ite ego or something? something like that would sure explain the cult of people fallowing it around

[Kuulvheysoon]

Maybe give it Attraction/Aversion as SLAs/PLAs? Roll the save in secret, of course. Maybe a PLA of mass cloud mind (since by the time the PCs get immunity to mind-affecting, they'll have probably figured it out)?

[Draconisister]

Im guessing that mass cloud mind would be useable only 1/day as a greater power this still leaves me with a lot of gaps in my item whom i will name Bob for now.

First question what kind of item should Bob
1-Armor/clothing
2-weapon
3-jewelery
4-some sort of item that cant be warn or carried

[Lightlawbliss]

4 would be kind a cool. An intelligent table that to the untrained/unsuspecting/whatever-you-want person looks like some kind of item a person that wants to take over the world may want...but the table is intelligent and has some kind of mind control ability.

also, don't be afraid to make this an epic intelligent item (with above average number of abilities): It is the center of the campaign after all.

[Draconisister]

party walks in to room (mass cloud mind failed saves)
"the room is empty"
they walk trough the room (walks right in to Bob) "$^$%##@$#^%$&#% Where did that table come from"


Perfect lol

[Bezzerker]

How about a pen? A silver-tipped wooden writing pen, in almost all respects an ordinary pen. It does have at the non-writing end a slot for a signet ring, allowing a person to use the same utensil for writing and stamping the official seal onto legal documents. A clever feature really.

When someone starts to use the pen, they discover that the pen never seems to need refilling. That would be an awesome thing to have, never having to worry about ink. So the person ends up using this pen for all of their writing.

The pen's greater powers only awaken when a signet ring is placed into the slot. The owner discovers that the pen can communicate through writing, taking over a person's arm to write out its responses.

At first, the pen gives really good and sound advice to its owner. It makes its owner feel more confident, be more persuasive, and be more successful at whatever it is you do. Eventually, the owner ends up at the head of an organization, a kingdom, or a religious institute. And that is when things start to go, wrong.

On the outside, the organization looks like the perfect place to be a part of. Fair and just laws, widespread prosperity, and a wise leader. Underneath the idyllic presentation, however, the pen begins to corrupt its "owner".

It feeds the writer little lies at first, nothing too big or that can't be attributed to an honest mistake.

The pen then invades the writer's dreams, whispering about paranoid plots by others to destroy everything the writer has ever worked on. More and more the writer depends on only the pen and those it deems "trustworthy".

And when the pen has completely enslaved the poor soul who had used it, the design of the signet ring that was slotted into the end of the pen changes into another symbol. Its symbol.

Throughout the ages, the pen's symbol has been used by the secret police of numerous kingdoms, of the sacrificial cults that desecrated many a holy site, and of the most murderous of assassin's guilds.

Most people don't notice this detail, as the pen's symbol is rather simple and easily worked into the design of other symbols. Also, sense it can take some time before the pen can enslave the writer, the memories about it tend to fade from the public.

The most telling detail about the pen is its tendency to force its owner to compulsively redecorate any office it is kept in to a certain style.

The creator of the pen was a devil, who decided to take the phrase "the pen is mightier than the sword" to the next level. The pen was designed to promote a lawful society wherever it ends up, so as to prepare the area for harvesting by the devil at its leisure.

Unfortunately for the devil, it was slain a long time ago before it could see the fruits of its labor.

==========

What do y'all think about this pen? Would make for an interesting opponent, I think.

[Lightlawbliss]

...

What do y'all think about this pen?...

You sir just made a great big bad for some really long campaign. (It would take most players 2 or 3 times beating someone using the same pen to figure out the pen was in charge, and you said yourself it takes a long time to regain power).

[unseenmage]

I've been working on a weapon as a BBEG for a while. A golem and an Int item were the "sons" of a now deceased wizard lord. Now they're fighting over the land from behind the scenes.

A Sizing, Metalline weapon can get bigger and smaller and change it's metal to whatever it wants.
Make it a Flying weapon from MoF and now it can fly and has Animated Objects stats.
Intelligent Items can use any of their powers on their own so give it some Custom Magic Item abilities to make it more versatile. Teleport Object and Telekinesis could be insanely useful.

Good ,luck with the idea, I look forward to reading how it all turns out. I will definitely be lurking and stealing ideas for my own game too. :smallamused:

[Draconisister]

..... must steal pen for it is best idea ever.

the books in this campaign are core, completes and ToM, so the pen its self will be a wondrous item that has a reservoir of ink inside of it fills with its at will use of liquid night. on top of that it gives like a +5 to forgery or something until it has been used for a while and begins communicating with the writer. I would like to make use of truename magic as well maybe some truenamers have been tracking the users of this pen have been noticing that their true manes become twisted after a time but unknowing about the pen it gives a plot hook to look in to what is going on if the PCs still have yet to figure out what is going on.

[Brookshw]

At first I thought the table sounded good, maybe a chair/throne but that seems a little cliche, but then along came the pen. Really.....wow, well done! That would be a fun one.

[Lightlawbliss]

what do you call your creation?

[DustyBottoms]

I love the idea of mundane objects mind controlling the BBEG's, and I though that the table was a good idea...but that pen could be the center of a long campaign, or a Hollywood movie.

[Draconisister]

the currently unnamed BBEG is refered to as Bob

the base item I am making I do believe I will name Shadow Forgery

2 uses/day liquid night, +5 to forgery
market price 3600gp

[Bezzerker]

:smallredface:

Yay! I contributed!

I had to look up what Liquid Night was, and am unsure that it would work as an ink. Liquid Night is made to be applied as a sort of sunscreen, which would imply (to me at least) that it would dry clear as opposed to black or another color.

Upon looking up various alchemical inks, I think Phantom Ink would be more appropriate. From what I've found there are four different types, though more could be home-brewed very easily I think. The affect of Phantom Ink is to make the ink readable only under certain conditions, like only in the light of a candle or by the light of a spell like dancing lights. The four are Firelight (seen by candles, torches, campfires), Magical (seen by dancing lights, continual flames), Moonlight (seen by reflected sunlight :smalltongue:), and Starlight (seen by starlight, and usually only to those with Darkvision).

I would say that the pen could write with this special ink up to a certain number of times per day, typically to pass along hidden orders to the minions its managed to dominate.

Maybe 5/day, write up to 1 page worth of writing in Phantom Ink?

Otherwise, the ink that flows from the pen is just dull, everyday ink so as not to arouse suspicion.

Also, if this pen is connected to Truenaming, perhaps it can use a few Utterances? Instead of speaking, the pen would write them out instead, perhaps using Forgery to make its checks?

[Draconisister]

Liquid night is a shadowcaster mystery from ToM. 1 use makes enough ink to write 1 page of text it is black ink but in shadowy illumination it glows like a candle.

I dont think writing utterances would really work all that well and i dont plan on having it connected to truename magic really just as sort of a side effect of using for along period of time it would warp ones truename as the pens control over a person increases.

Giving the pen shadow caster like abilites seems to fit how it gains control + lots of fluffy fluff

[IIzak]

I have a question. How are you going to get the pen from one owner to the next? What will happen if after the PC's kill the first person using the pen, and one of the PC's takes the pen (+5 to forgery is still +5 to forgery and this is a magic item so I know if it were me, I'd pick it up.) How will you keep your PC's from travelling around with your BBEG in their pocket. It needs some way to protect itself from the PC's after its owner has been defeated, so that it can be picked up by a new owner. Kinda like how the Ring of Power from LOTR betrays people it doesn't want to be with, it has to find a way to escape each time.

[Draconisister]

well i suspect that not everyone will carry the pen with them and even if they do Its an intelligent item so if it gains dominance I can just make the player chuck it out the window or something.

[Lightlawbliss]

why not make a member of the party become the next victim?

[Draconisister]

That is indeed a possibility but that would depend on the in game reactions of the players

[ArcturusV]

Pretty much. There's two types of players. The type that when they wander off alone you pass them a note saying "You are now an evil doppleganger with your appearance. Blend into the party until I say otherwise," and get really upset at it, or those that get a sadistic grin.

If your players are the latter, having them become the tool of an evil item is probably okay. The former? Not so much.

If it is a Pen, I'd give it some "Useless" powers to explain the ping on the Magic Itemdar. Particularly if you give them powers that otherwise aren't equatable so they can't say "Hey... there's no way this pen of Illusory Script is a powerful aura..." or the like.

Something like giving the pen the ability to automatically copy any document it has written within the last hour before the command word is spoken. Useful to a PC? Not likely. Useful enough that someone might have plausibly created it? Sure, scribes would probably appreciate the break.

But having some camouflage like that could really help it.

[Draconisister]

I was thinking that the pen could force its self in to a dormant state preventing the use of most of its abilities and making use of Magic Aura to apear as just the basic item is. after doing so i think it would have to stay that way for atleast a week and can only manage the trick a few times do to the energy required or maybe it hates doing it and would only use it as a last resort

[Lightlawbliss]

or it could have the magic aura (at cl 7+) spell from PH as a 1/week ability. too powerful for this spell you may say; DM could allow the creator to have made an altered version that does the intended job better.

[Draconisister]

lol I just had the dumbest idea ever a magic item that only has the ability to use Magic Aura at will on its self.


Anyway maybe the pen uses the time its dormant to observe the new user and determine how best to bend it to its will.

[Fyermind]

Journals have already been done (Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets) but it is a fantastic one.

Another one is a sentient spell. The spell itself is intelligent, so what it means to defeat it is up to interpretation. The spell has quasi-random effects. When cast it does one of several things not up to the control of the caster (perhaps it casts another spell of the same level or lower from some specific list as the item deems appropriate).

What do you guys think would be a good win condition against a spell?

[Lightlawbliss]

Journals have already been done (Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets) but it is a fantastic one.

Another one is a sentient spell. The spell itself is intelligent, so what it means to defeat it is up to interpretation. The spell has quasi-random effects. When cast it does one of several things not up to the control of the caster (perhaps it casts another spell of the same level or lower from some specific list as the item deems appropriate).

What do you guys think would be a good win condition against a spell?

disjunction.

[Fyermind]

disjunction.

oh god. I'd hate to have the job of reminding my players that spell exists.

[TheTinyMan]

I love the pen idea, but I'd hesitate to to make it TOO slow or subtle. If it takes months to develop its hold over someone, then the PCs will probably have other, unrelated things going on between encounters with it - and if they were as absent-minded as I am, they'd have to encounter it pretty directly to remember, "hey, I dealt with this thing six sessions ago!"

My first thought would be a piece of combat gear - something that's noticeable but doesn't jump out too much. Maybe a greatsword, a suit of armor, or a cloak. The first question becomes how to keep it out of the hands of the players so it can continue corrupting NPCs.

Whatever its form, I would have it interact with the PCs while the combat is still going on in a way that they can't identify is the item. It isn't apparent when an item uses a power, right? So maybe the item, when it first sees the PCs, manifests Probe Thoughts on whoever it thinks might use it if they win. Someone may or may not notice a niggling at their brain but has no idea where it's coming from. A successful Probe Thoughts tells the item that the character isn't a viable candidate (unless they are), and an unsuccessful Probe Thoughts tells the item that the character is probably too strong-willed to be a good next victim. After combat, if the item decides that it doesn't want to be owned by the PCs, it casts some variant of Obscuring Mist near but not centered on itself to prevent anyone from seeing the next bit, and then Teleports away - possibly some kind of Mass Teleport Item, that makes a bunch of gear disappear from the battlefield. The party doesn't notice anything unless they realize that there is less loot than there should be...which is why I would make sure that the item is noticeable.

We could write a book about potential corrupting effects! +15 to Diplomacy checks, plus Suggesting to the owner that they use this power for ends that grow more and more nefarious is one of the more mild ones. An item that slowly replaces the skills, personality, and even body, of its owner with that of its creator (or a soul bound within it) would be really cool; especially if the owner winds up repeatedly producing the same equipment (so the players notice, 'hey, this guy always drops the same stuff - why does he never have a sword?'). Something that causes someone to try to live up to the *ideals* of some evil warlord from the past, while granting them Charisma bonuses and at-will Charm Monsters, might work if we want something more subtle.

A good win condition? Hmm. Finding a way to free the soul of the trickster spirit bound to it? Liberating the oppressed population that includes its creator? Reuniting it with its "true owner?" Throwing it into Mount Doom a portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire? Bringing it to a sufficiently powerful artificer...and then freeing him from its thrall long enough for him to do his stuff? All of this is assuming it's been contained for transportation of course. An appropriate AMF-generator, or magic-suppressing box or scabbard, might make that work.

[Scow2]

I think the Pen should encourage Machavellian political maneuverings and the like almost from the get-go. Someone with the pen finds themselves being able to naturally fall into the Lawful Evil alignment, as it serves as an excellent attorney, knowing what to say to sway almost anyone, in some of the most ruthless manner possible (Including its owner). Starting the corruption from the beginning, instead of letting it first swing to "Lawful Good", is MUCH more efficient.

[virgileso]

Aside from the pen, it would be easy for a BBEG item to hide by having near duplicates wielded by minions; all of the mook soldiers wield a +1 red steel khopesh. That will make the PCs think it's more of an aesthetic choice by a recurring cult, and they'll not keep the BBEG itself because it'll be mistaken as yet another khopesh thrown into the sell pile (magic aura to hide its other traits).

[Bezzerker]

Liquid night is a shadowcaster mystery from ToM. 1 use makes enough ink to write 1 page of text it is black ink but in shadowy illumination it glows like a candle.

I've just been learned. My Google-fu wasn't up to the task of finding that for some reason, all I ever got was the vampiric suntan lotion. Thankfully my dad has the ToM, so I can look at the mystery itself.

Reading into Shadowcasting further, I would suggest that the pen have additional mysteries as its powers. The full list would be:

Liquid Night Fundemental
Sight Eclipsed Apprentice, Cloak of Shadows
Thoughts of Shadow Apprentice, Umbral Mind
Step into Shadow Initiate, Ebon Roads
Soul Puppet Master, Heart and Soul

Sight Eclipsed would basically give the pen Hide in Plain Sight even while observed, Thoughts of Shadows is how it would boost the writer's mental abilities, Step into Shadow is how the pen moves around, and Soul Puppet is how the pen takes over its "owner".


I love the pen idea, but I'd hesitate to to make it TOO slow or subtle. If it takes months to develop its hold over someone, then the PCs will probably have other, unrelated things going on between encounters with it - and if they were as absent-minded as I am, they'd have to encounter it pretty directly to remember, "hey, I dealt with this thing six sessions ago!"

I would say that it takes an average of 3-6 months for the pen to dominate whoever is its current owner and have a fully functioning secret police/cult/whatever to control the location it is in. It can be quicker if it finds a particularly weak-willed person and/or the area is very receptive to a lawful society.


I think the Pen should encourage Machavellian political maneuverings and the like almost from the get-go. Someone with the pen finds themselves being able to naturally fall into the Lawful Evil alignment, as it serves as an excellent attorney, knowing what to say to sway almost anyone, in some of the most ruthless manner possible (Including its owner). Starting the corruption from the beginning, instead of letting it first swing to "Lawful Good", is MUCH more efficient.

The pen first encourages a Lawful Good society to better obscure its true nature. By setting up a fully functioning organization, it makes people (in theory) more reluctant to try and topple the leader unless they have absolute proof of wrong-doing, as otherwise you are then depriving that organization of its wise and benevolent leader. It also can use the laws against anyone who try and eliminate it, as well as turn the general populace against those who dig a little too deep.


I was thinking that the pen could force its self in to a dormant state preventing the use of most of its abilities and making use of Magic Aura to apear as just the basic item is. after doing so i think it would have to stay that way for atleast a week and can only manage the trick a few times do to the energy required or maybe it hates doing it and would only use it as a last resort

I would say any time the pen does not have a signet ring inserted into it, the pen is effectively dormant. Even then, when it does have a signet ring it only registers as a minor magic item. It's only when the signet ring has its own personal symbol visible that the pen fully registers as the powerful magic item that it truly is.

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Well, that turned out to be a doozy of a post. Any comments, questions, or critiques?