Any Evil Classes you would like as good?

[CyberThread]

are their any evil or non good PRC's, you wish were good so you could take them on the everyday adventure?

[Karnith]

I've wanted to play a non-evil Totemist/Thayan Gladiator before. And I've never quite understood why Eunuch Warlocks needed to be evil. Luckily, we ditch most alignment restrictions in my games.

[ArcturusV]

Well, because Eunich Warlocks are the viziers. Viziers are always evil. And scheming to take the throne.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hey hey. Lemme give a shout out to a non-evil Disciple of Dispater. What mundane iron-weapon user hasn't read that prc and said "say what?" I'd love to have access to some of its coolness as a Lawful-type class or a straight-up celestial-type conversion.

In general, as a DM I am highly flexible with alignment pre-reqs, given an appropriately developed and maintained role play justification. More variety is generally a plus in my book, and there are really few classes or prc that strictly can't be good (like, um....Souldrinker off the top of my head...I'm sure there are others where it would be really weird to convert them away from evil).

[Ninja_Grand]

Assassin, But lets not get into that.

That-one-necomancer-from-Dragon also. Screw Orcus, I want zombies.

[fryplink]

I've always thought Ur-Priest could use a good (or neutral) option. My group usually re-fluffs it that way, allowing it to pull spells from all kinds of power. I had one once where lycanthropy was caused by a symbiote of sorts. The Ur-Priest drew power from it for his spells (clearly this was all fluff). He couldn't cast spells from other divine classes because the lycanthropic parasite damages your soul (don't worry, it grows back).

[Kuulvheysoon]

I have to say, Id like a non-evil version of Ur-Priest for servants of a dead god. Require that one feat from Lost Empires of Faerun instead of Spell Focus (Evil) and that's pretty much it.

Also, a "good" conversion-to-undead prestige class. Good as in Good-aligned and not a terrible one (Risen Martyr, this is you).

[CyberThread]

Assassin, But lets not get into that.

That-one-necomancer-from-Dragon also. Screw Orcus, I want zombies.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a

[ArcturusV]

Course, I also want a Non-Evil Vermin Lord, or Thrall of Jubilex. I mean yeah, in most setting the cultures that worship Vermin are typically Evil, Drow and what not. But that shouldn't be a thing necessarily. And Thrall of Jubilex just because it's about the only decent PrC I can think of that makes you into an Ooze. Might be other ones out there, just can't ever recall them off the top of my head.

[lsfreak]

I pretty much want a non-aligned version of every class, because alignment restrictions are stupid. Imposing fluff restrictions on mechanics is something that bothers me. Not to mention the ONLY class that actually does anything with it, or at least does it well, is Incarnate.

[T.G. Oskar]

I've always thought Ur-Priest could use a good (or neutral) option. My group usually re-fluffs it that way, allowing it to pull spells from all kinds of power. I had one once where lycanthropy was caused by a symbiote of sorts. The Ur-Priest drew power from it for his spells (clearly this was all fluff). He couldn't cast spells from other divine classes because the lycanthropic parasite damages your soul (don't worry, it grows back).

By definition, the Apostle of Peace is meant to be the "good" counterpart to the Ur-Priest, but in practice, they're very different. The Ur-Priest has the ability to cast from virtually ALL Cleric spells, and they get also the ability to rebuke undead; the Apostle of Peace gets a limited list and no turning ability, but they get a few peace-related abilities. However, the bigger problem with Apostle of Peace is the Vow requirements, which make them incompatible with the party's composition, unless ALL characters are Exalted, or if all characters solve their problems through non-violence (even the Evil ones).

If the restrictions are lessened and the spell list expanded, the Apostle of Peace would be the de-facto "good Ur-Priest". It otherwise fits the "fast 9th-level progression divine caster PrC" vibe from the Ur-Priest.

[TheSunKing]

Arachnomancer. Why the game gotta be racist against my spider brethren?

[Drachasor]

Well, not quite a specific PrC, but I'd love to play any sort of necromancer that gets reflavored as a Construct Master, which constructs instead of undead. Naturally some spells would have to change.

[Clistenes]

Nar Demonbinder.

[Xefas]

The Paladin of Slaughter! Why can I not spread havoc and death at the behest of my unspeakably neutral masters? From the thousand mouths of their uninterestingly beige forms, to my mortal lips, I unleash words of ambivalence to cast the righteous and unrighteous together, down into the prosaic pits of the Concordant Domain, in which they will mill about at their leisure for all eternity!

Some men just want to watch the world... turn! But with slightly fewer people in it!

[Darth Stabber]

Dread necromancer! I want hordes of deathless servants!

Cancer mage, not as a player but that PRC is incredibly useful for advancing monsters, advancing HD is for suckers. In good cases I frequently use wilder, simply because it has just enough BAB, a big enough HD, a couple of decent class abilities, and useful power.

[Curmudgeon]

No, there aren't any Evil classes I would like to be Good instead. I'd rather embrace the alignment requirements. It's not that hard, since adventurers are Bad Guys anyway: they go around killing people and taking their stuff. The "everyday adventure" is almost always full of Evil PCs, regardless of what their character sheets say.

[fryplink]

By definition, the Apostle of Peace is meant to be the "good" counterpart to the Ur-Priest, but in practice, they're very different. The Ur-Priest has the ability to cast from virtually ALL Cleric spells, and they get also the ability to rebuke undead; the Apostle of Peace gets a limited list and no turning ability, but they get a few peace-related abilities. However, the bigger problem with Apostle of Peace is the Vow requirements, which make them incompatible with the party's composition, unless ALL characters are Exalted, or if all characters solve their problems through non-violence (even the Evil ones).

If the restrictions are lessened and the spell list expanded, the Apostle of Peace would be the de-facto "good Ur-Priest". It otherwise fits the "fast 9th-level progression divine caster PrC" vibe from the Ur-Priest.

Fair enough. Since it has a Vow requirement, I'm going to assume its from BoED. Which is why I didn't think about it. I can't stand the BoED. And, as you said, the Vow feats hurt.

[Amphetryon]

I second the "non-Evil Vermin Lord" idea. Why does an affinity for a certain type of living creature ping Evil?

[Vaz]

Also, a "good" conversion-to-undead prestige class. Good as in Good-aligned and not a terrible one (Risen Martyr, this is you).

Why do I get the feeling Iron Chef is calling?

[Humble Master]

I second the "non-Evil Vermin Lord" idea. Why does an affinity for a certain type of living creature ping Evil? Cause the aliagnment system in D&D is horribly broken.

Also I give another vote for Vermin Lord and Ur Priest.

[Lanson]

I would have to go with Black Blood Cultist, I want to crush my foes as one in a barbarian grappler build

[kreenlover]

I'll vote up Vermin Lord, Ur-Priest and Disciple of Dispater

Because massive crit ranges and free weapon enhancements for ANY iron weapon is just too awesome to pass up

[CyberThread]

really depends , I woulnd't mind some of the melee classes, as they tend to seem better then other classes.

[_flint_]

Cancer mage, man. Maybe swap the diseases with ravages?

[JaronK]

Also, a "good" conversion-to-undead prestige class. Good as in Good-aligned and not a terrible one (Risen Martyr, this is you).

This exists... the Bone Knight. You don't actually turn into an undead, but you wear bone armor and get a bunch of undead immunities in addition to other undead themed abilities... and it's a Paladin PrC. You're supposed to stay Lawful Good. It's in Five Nations.

As for me, I don't see why Anima Mages are considered so evil. They could be good without problems.

JaronK

[Kuulvheysoon]

This exists... the Bone Knight. You don't actually turn into an undead, but you wear bone armor and get a bunch of undead immunities in addition to other undead themed abilities... and it's a Paladin PrC. You're supposed to stay Lawful Good. It's in Five Nations.

As for me, I don't see why Anima Mages are considered so evil. They could be good without problems.

JaronK

You have me there, good sir. I had forgotten about the Bone Knight.

Touché.

[Akal Saris]

Actually, sometimes I wish there was an evil variant malconvoker, so I could use the fiend abilities along with evil-only summon choices and feats. Of course, I love the flavor of the standard malconvoker regardless.

Otherwise, I'd like if there were some more good/neutral-aligned PrCs and classes that gave poison usage. They are rather limited.

[Cirrylius]

Cause the aliagnment system in D&D is horribly broken.


That's less a problem with the alignment system and more a real-world bias against and tropes about creepy, poisonous and decay-adjacent animals translated to the game. A Druid of Decay (not of wholesale destruction, like a Defiler) could be alignment-viable.

[Piggy Knowles]

Nar Demonbinder.

Nar Demonbinder is "any non-good," IIRC.

I'd like to see a non evil Necrocarnate, personally.

[navar100]

I've wanted to play a non-evil Totemist/Thayan Gladiator before. And I've never quite understood why Eunuch Warlocks needed to be evil. Luckily, we ditch most alignment restrictions in my games.

You'd p'd off too if you lost your . . .

[T.G. Oskar]

Nar Demonbinder is "any non-good," IIRC.

I'd like to see a non evil Necrocarnate, personally.

Doesn't the Adaptation section mentions something about a Vivicarnate? Not exactly sure how that'd work, but the Necrocarnate needs some love on its own.

On the other hand, a Good-aligned Necromancer PrC would be great. There's stuff like the Death Delver and the Deadgrim that allow good characters to share some traits of Undead creatures, just like Bone Knight. On the other hand, there's no class that actually has a feel of Necromancer, allowing to create and control undead without the alignment restrictions. Of course, there's the actual Necromancy-specialist Wizard, but if you want to diversify through PrCs, then you're pretty much screwed (and you can ONLY become a Good-aligned Wizard, as Clerics have to be Neutral or Evil to pull that off).

[Piggy Knowles]

It does, but it would require a lot of reworking.

I've messed around with a homebrew version, where instead of making Necrocarnum zombies, vivicarnates animate objects around them. Still would like to see something official, though.

[Taveena]

Hexblade as non-good kinda confused me. Bestow Curse isn't Evil, why is a Hexblade?

[Manly Man]

Doesn't the Adaptation section mentions something about a Vivicarnate? Not exactly sure how that'd work, but the Necrocarnate needs some love on its own.

On the other hand, a Good-aligned Necromancer PrC would be great. There's stuff like the Death Delver and the Deadgrim that allow good characters to share some traits of Undead creatures, just like Bone Knight. On the other hand, there's no class that actually has a feel of Necromancer, allowing to create and control undead without the alignment restrictions. Of course, there's the actual Necromancy-specialist Wizard, but if you want to diversify through PrCs, then you're pretty much screwed (and you can ONLY become a Good-aligned Wizard, as Clerics have to be Neutral or Evil to pull that off).

Actually, you could be a Lawful Good Cleric devoted to Wee Jas, or if you're getting into other mythos, Osiris, and be a great necromancer. Osiris would probably be more about mummification than doing something like zombies, though if you just refluffed them as such (guts removed, embalmed, etcetera), the DM would probably be okay with it. I'd even once made a Paladin devoted to Wee Jas who basically went and advertised that death is ultimately not a bad thing, and had a very dark sense of humor, though her attitude was very light-hearted, positive in thought, and almost idealistic; being a servant of a death god makes the idealism a bit too hard, though.

[Grayson01]

Hexblade as non-good kinda confused me. Bestow Curse isn't Evil, why is a Hexblade?

I second this one. In one of the Discriptions in the PHB2 for Hexblade charcter concepts it says someone who misshaps and bad luck follow as a child. And basicly they learn to project this outward. This dose not have to make a completely jaded person. I can think of some great ways to RP this as a good natured person who is and projects bad luck around him.

[danzibr]

I would have to go with Black Blood Cultist, I want to crush my foes as one in a barbarian grappler build

I'll vote up Vermin Lord, Ur-Priest and Disciple of Dispater

Because massive crit ranges and free weapon enhancements for ANY iron weapon is just too awesome to pass up

Hey hey. Lemme give a shout out to a non-evil Disciple of Dispater. What mundane iron-weapon user hasn't read that prc and said "say what?" I'd love to have access to some of its coolness as a Lawful-type class or a straight-up celestial-type conversion.

In general, as a DM I am highly flexible with alignment pre-reqs, given an appropriately developed and maintained role play justification. More variety is generally a plus in my book, and there are really few classes or prc that strictly can't be good (like, um....Souldrinker off the top of my head...I'm sure there are others where it would be really weird to convert them away from evil).
Bolded parts are seconded!

As a DM I also waive alignment stuff and do some refluffing.

[T.G. Oskar]

Actually, you could be a Lawful Good Cleric devoted to Wee Jas, or if you're getting into other mythos, Osiris, and be a great necromancer. Osiris would probably be more about mummification than doing something like zombies, though if you just refluffed them as such (guts removed, embalmed, etcetera), the DM would probably be okay with it. I'd even once made a Paladin devoted to Wee Jas who basically went and advertised that death is ultimately not a bad thing, and had a very dark sense of humor, though her attitude was very light-hearted, positive in thought, and almost idealistic; being a servant of a death god makes the idealism a bit too hard, though.

I'd love for that to be the case, but at least with Wee Jas, that's impossible. While you could play a LG Necromancer that follows Wee Jas, and a Paladin of Wee Jas is fair play (as she's a LN Deity), but the rules are pretty specific: all Good clerics turn/destroy undead. The case of Wee Jas' Lawful Neutral Clerics is different: all LN Clerics rebuke undead, without exceptions. In Osiris' case, he shares ideas with Kelemvor, so while he may agree to have mummies protect important cities, he won't agree for the creation of ghouls or undead, and by default his LG and NG clerics will turn undead, never rebuke.

Which is, mostly, what I find is the problem. There's ways to pull off being Good and getting rebuke undead (the Death Delver is one key example), but otherwise it's impossible. In the case of the Death Delver, I mention it by passing because you don't have to be a cleric to become one, and it grants its own measure of spellcasting ability; however, it's just like a cleric does, which means being incapable of casting even Animate Dead. Dread Necromancer forbids entrance if you're good-aligned, so that's no way to enter either. If you want to be a good-aligned Necromancer, you have to be a Wizard (and hence, aside from dipping Death Delver, be unable to rebuke undead), or be an Aereni elf in Eberron and gain access to the Deathless domain, so that you can create deathless (the "good" undead). Or be an elf baelnorn, but that's less becoming a cleric and more becoming a "good lich".

Certainly, Wee Jas, Osiris and the Undying Court allow for characters with an interest in necromancy and flavored like it, but not as Clerics (save for the Undying Court, and even then you still turn undead). That, or have a weaker form of rebuking undead by taking all levels in Death Delver, because most of the PrCs that advance rebuking require an Evil alignment. Other than that, you pretty much have to homebrew or houserule it.

[geonova]

I second this one. In one of the Discriptions in the PHB2 for Hexblade charcter concepts it says someone who misshaps and bad luck follow as a child. And basicly they learn to project this outward. This dose not have to make a completely jaded person. I can think of some great ways to RP this as a good natured person who is and projects bad luck around him.

read hayate the combat butler, contains the world's unluckiest person

[Astralia123]

You may notice that, even though there is alignment restriction to be a warlock, there's no way to become an ex-warlock or stop you leveling-up when you have a "wrong" alignment.

I heavily suspect how much is this alignment limitation meaningful. Anyway you *can* make a lawful good warlock without any punishment, at least no punishment from the rules.

[Nagukuk]

Black Blood Hunter (the lycanthropic class) PGTF 178


Its not super powered, but its interesting.

I have been musing about what to exchange the Greater curse and the increased curse DC powers with...

As a good Lycan would not want to spread their curse. the rest are easy apples to apples, and Vile attack can become Sanctified.

[ArqArturo]

I could see a good Ur-Priest, stealing divine magic from evil deities in order to weaken their minions and cultists.

I want to say a good (and refurbished) version of the Disciple of Mephistopheles, but for a Celestial creature, and with lightning. I'll admit it sucks because the abilities are lackluster, but let's say a warlock takes it, and suddenly he's flinging electric eldritch blasts, and he has an electric version of Fire Shield.

Also, a good version of the Acolyte of the Skin would be interesting. Not exactly a version that you wear around the skin of an angel (grossly evil :p ), but let's say you take a certain celestial creature you want, you study a Sacred Tome, and little by little you attain certain abilities related to it and at the final level you become that celestial (of a sort), plus your class levels.

[ZombiePunch]

Mindbender

[Curmudgeon]

You may notice that, even though there is alignment restriction to be a warlock, there's no way to become an ex-warlock or stop you leveling-up when you have a "wrong" alignment.
That's patently untrue. The very first step of every Level Advancement (Player's Handbook, pages 58-59) is 1. Choose Class. You can't choose Warlock as your class for advancement unless you meet the requirement at that time ("Alignment: Any evil or any chaotic.").

[Astralia123]

That's patently untrue. The very first step of every Level Advancement (Player's Handbook, pages 58-59) is 1. Choose Class. You can't choose Warlock as your class for advancement unless you meet the requirement at that time ("Alignment: Any evil or any chaotic.").

Well I mean no arguing, but I don't see how this happens according to 3.5 phb.


LEVEL ADVANCEMENT
Each character class description includes a table that shows how the
class features and statistics increase as a member of that class
advances in level. When your character attains a new level, make
these changes.
1. Choose Class: A typical character has only one class, and when
he or she attains a new level, it is a new level in that class. If your
character has more than one class or wants to acquire a new class,
you choose which class goes up one level. The other class or classes
stay at the previous level. (See Multiclass Characters, page 59.)

Besides, the alignment: listed in game rule information for warlock class is not inherently a limitation. All the other basic class that have an alignment limitation indicate the circumstance you cannot level up in this class in their ex-class text, but apparently you cannot become an ex-warlock. A warlock's power is born with him and often against even his own will. How could alignment change reasonably "remove" it or stop him from practicing his own power?

It should be mentioned that, it is usually hinted in class background why you must be a certain alignment in order to keep in this class, while it is not so interpreted in warlock's case. It actually doesn't make sense if a warlock with "wrong" alignment cannot level up.

[BowStreetRunner]

Assassin, But lets not get into that.

Too late. It's been done already. The Slayer of Domiel from BoED is very much a good version of the assassin, but the prerequisites are a bit tougher.

[T.G. Oskar]

Too late. It's been done already. The Slayer of Domiel from BoED is very much a good version of the assassin, but the prerequisites are a bit tougher.

This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) doesn't look like a slayer of Domiel, but it definitely seems like a version of the Assassin that's more noble (and less chaotic; in fact, it HAS to be non-chaotic). So...there IS a good Assassin ;P

[Drelua]

Too late. It's been done already. The Slayer of Domiel from BoED is very much a good version of the assassin, but the prerequisites are a bit tougher.

You know, when I first looked at that class, I thought it was hugely over powered. Then I realized their death touch says hit points, not hit dice, and so is essentially useless, so I thought the class was under powered. Then I ignored that ability, just like the assassin's death attack, and started to like that class. Of course, I'd prefer I not be required to take one of the worst feats I've ever seen that isn't actively detrimental to your character to be a good assassin, but I guess that would be asking too much.

Of course, even with the Avenger, which was quite depressingly published on April Fool's Day, I'm still not allowed to play a Chaotic Good Assassin. :smallannoyed:

[Yogibear41]

Black Blood Hunter (the lycanthropic class) PGTF 178


Its not super powered, but its interesting.

I have been musing about what to exchange the Greater curse and the increased curse DC powers with...

As a good Lycan would not want to spread their curse. the rest are easy apples to apples, and Vile attack can become Sanctified.


Could go for the Silver Fang feat from Champions of Valor.

[Lycar]

... "say what?" I'd love to have access to some of its coolness ...

And that's the long and short of it, isn't it. You want the cool toys but not to want to pay the price. :smallsigh:



No, there aren't any Evil classes I would like to be Good instead. I'd rather embrace the alignment requirements. It's not that hard, since adventurers are Bad Guys anyway: they go around killing people and taking their stuff. The "everyday adventure" is almost always full of Evil PCs, regardless of what their character sheets say.

QFT.

[123456789blaaa]

And that's the long and short of it, isn't it. You want the cool toys but not to want to pay the price. :smallsigh:




QFT.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the power of the DoD PRC is "paid for" with the requirement to be evil? :smallconfused:

[ArcturusV]

Either that or he's referring to the otherwise terribad feat: Disciple of Darkness.

[Karnith]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the power of the DoD PRC is "paid for" with the requirement to be evil? :smallconfused:
Well, if you want those abilities, it's only fair that you promise not to behave.

[Arbane]

The Paladin of Slaughter! Why can I not spread havoc and death at the behest of my unspeakably neutral masters? From the thousand mouths of their uninterestingly beige forms, to my mortal lips, I unleash words of ambivalence to cast the righteous and unrighteous together, down into the prosaic pits of the Concordant Domain, in which they will mill about at their leisure for all eternity!

Some men just want to watch the world... turn! But with slightly fewer people in it!

WHY? WHYYYYYY?????

WHY IS THIS TOO BIG TO FIT IN MY SIG? :smallbiggrin:

[Lycar]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the power of the DoD PRC is "paid for" with the requirement to be evil? :smallconfused:

Pretty much.

Think of it this way: Nobody in his (or her) right mind considers himself (or herself) evil. And since you are playing a hero, obviously you can't be evil. Even if you want to wield powers that are... let's say 'morally ambiguous'.

But that is wanting to eat your cake and have it. If you want that kind of power bad enough, your alignment probably is somewhere south of the equator to begin with. Remember that Good is sometimes considered 'stupid' because it won't betray its principles.

Paladin has to chose between slaying a baby to save a village? Can't slay the baby. That is an act of evil. Good does not do evil, period. If the price to pay is a village, so be it. Good will not sacrifice its principles.

Oh,and remember that mortal lives in the D&D verse are irrelevant anyway. The only thing that matters is where the souls end up.

So, if you want that nice set of powers, the price is that you get to spend eternity with people just like you. People of the same alignment that is. And each and everyone of them will also plead to being 'not evil'. Except the insane ones.

[DementedFellow]

Personally, I could see Walker in the Waste as a good PrC. Geluns (Cursed Cold Ones) would worship him and see him as a herald of their people. With his rather large aura, he could keep them from freezing over at night and might end up giving them a chance at a normal life. He could help secure trades with caravans. Why hunt and kill when food comes to you?

He would be a messiah to them. One that would not die. One that would protect. One that would help them flourish.

[ArqArturo]

Paladin has to chose between slaying a baby to save a village? Can't slay the baby. That is an act of evil. Good does not do evil, period. If the price to pay is a village, so be it. Good will not sacrifice its principles.

I choose the third route: Take care of the child, so that he grows up to be a shining beacon of hope and good.

A paladin does not have to be a paladunce.

[Skysaber]

Hexblade as non-good kinda confused me. Bestow Curse isn't Evil, why is a Hexblade?

Because it was one of the many, Many, MANY attempts to create an "Anti-Paladin" class. Attempts that continue to this day, despite how many they've already got, in just about every flavor.

[Nagukuk]

Could go for the Silver Fang feat from Champions of Valor.

THANKS!

Silver fang got me thinking... a bite that cures Lycanthropy instead of causing it, use it to "save" the afflicted and "redeem" the wicked!

perhaps a Fort DC to resist the "cure" ...
I picture the "hero" lycan fighting the evil coven of X leaving cured weaker but alive bodies in his/her wake. Perhaps some of them rise up to fight against the evil ... perhaps some few feel "robbed" of their power...

[lycantrope]

Both myself and the other dm of our group don't take alignment requirements seriously when it comes to a player entering a class, but roleplay requirements to waive those restrictions are assumed before issues even come up. We try to work with the players to come up with something setting specific that stays true to the flavor of th prc.

Glad to see urpriest and mind bender get mentioned, as these have been reflavored in our campaigns for use by good characters. The current ur priest, for example, is an exalted character going for a saint template, and is playing the prc as a "jungle priest," tuned into the flux of divine/arcane/hoodoo ephemera of the setting.

[Grayson01]

read hayate the combat butler, contains the world's unluckiest person
That sounds kinda awesome!

[Ninja_Grand]

I could see a good Ur-Priest, stealing divine magic from evil deities in order to weaken their minions and cultists.

I want to say a good (and refurbished) version of the Disciple of Mephistopheles, but for a Celestial creature, and with lightning. I'll admit it sucks because the abilities are lackluster, but let's say a warlock takes it, and suddenly he's flinging electric eldritch blasts, and he has an electric version of Fire Shield.

Also, a good version of the Acolyte of the Skin would be interesting. Not exactly a version that you wear around the skin of an angel (grossly evil :p ), but let's say you take a certain celestial creature you want, you study a Sacred Tome, and little by little you attain certain abilities related to it and at the final level you become that celestial (of a sort), plus your class levels.

Oh! How bout a feather put into you, and you slowly become more angel like. I need to work with this.

[CyberThread]

lhmm super crit with iron weapons... refluff it as a anti fey class.

[Necroticplague]

I'd like to see Soul Eater as a good class. It seems like there's almost no freaking way you can focus on dealing out negative levels withouts having a giant "Evil" stamped on your forehead or learning to cast spells. And if you can cast the spells, you might as well just make minions that can do it to save your spell slots..

Similarly, almost all lycanthrope-based stuff is evil. It'd be nice to see those converted into good classes. Seriously, werebears are Good, why couldn't a werebear focused on their lycanthropy be Good as well?

[ArqArturo]

I'd like to see Soul Eater as a good class. It seems like there's almost no freaking way you can focus on dealing out negative levels withouts having a giant "Evil" stamped on your forehead or learning to cast spells. And if you can cast the spells, you might as well just make minions that can do it to save your spell slots..

Similarly, almost all lycanthrope-based stuff is evil. It'd be nice to see those converted into good classes. Seriously, werebears are Good, why couldn't a werebear focused on their lycanthropy be Good as well?

I think the Errata of Complete Divine actually offers a good version of a lycanthrope, the Moon Guardian.

[Fates]

Seconded on Vermin Lord. I hate how practically everything to do with vermin is automatically associated with evil. Spiders and centipedes as much a part of nature as fluffy bunnies and unicorns, but because WotC apparently can't stomach creepy crawlies. A passion for entomology is hardly equatable to slaughtering babies.

While I do understand that part of the reasoning for this is that poison=evil, I've always found that logic to be flawed. Yes, poison is slow and painful, but so is bleeding to death. There's no rule that good characters can't leave dying enemies for dead. And don't even get me started on ravages. Besides, if they have a non-evil class that literally binds the forces of hell to his will and is rewarded with more power than evil fiend-summoners without having to face eternal damnation, I think they can allow people to make friends with bugs without being branded as evil.

Seconded on the Hexblade as well. It may well be my absolute favourite base class, second perhaps only to spellthief, and, as others have mentioned, it's hardly as if bestow curse is an evil spell. Hell, Mark of Justice is a paladin spell.

I also dislike that druids are forced to be neutral, but that's a whole discussion I don't want to get into.

It's also annoying that Wild Soul requires that one be chaotic, and Warlocks can only be nonevil if they are chaotic good- this is meant to imply that they are descended from fey. There are, in fact, lawful fey, so that's really quite silly.

If Dominate Person isn't an evil spell, I see no reason for Mindbender to be an evil class.

I've always wanted to play a LN paladin, but I suppose that's less a complaint against the paladin class and more a homebrew request.

Not that I'd ever want to play one, but monks being lawful is also silly. That's all fluff-based, and fluff should be mutable. One should be able to be good at punching people without being part of a monastery or whatever the reason is.

Assassin being evil doesn't make much sense given that nothing about the class actually has anything to do with assassinating people for $$$, which is usually the reason why they are made out to be evil. Besides, mercenaries are usually regarded as neutral, and the only real difference there is that they're generally considered more "honourable."

I really just have a distaste for alignment restriction, I suppose.

[magwaaf]

a good version of dread necro that turns into a baelnorn

[Alex12]

Both myself and the other dm of our group don't take alignment requirements seriously when it comes to a player entering a class, but roleplay requirements to waive those restrictions are assumed before issues even come up. We try to work with the players to come up with something setting specific that stays true to the flavor of th prc.

Glad to see urpriest and mind bender get mentioned, as these have been reflavored in our campaigns for use by good characters. The current ur priest, for example, is an exalted character going for a saint template, and is playing the prc as a "jungle priest," tuned into the flux of divine/arcane/hoodoo ephemera of the setting.

Speaking as said other DM, I will say that there are some classes that, at the very least, require heavy reflavoring to be compatible with nonevil. While I don't consider undead to be inherently evil, and thus would be willing to permit LG necromancer, there are some things that are automatically evil. For example, with the existing fluff, Soul Eater is incompatible with a good character.
I'm also more than willing to allow a good cleric to channel negative energy, or an evil cleric channel positive. After all, what's more useful to community of LE kobolds, the ability to do stuff with the undead that nobody likes anyway, or the ability to patch Karl back up after a mine collapse?

[ArqArturo]

Actually... An evil version of a Malconvoker would be interesting. Seeing how certain evil rituals demand the blood of a celestial.

[TuggyNE]

I'm also more than willing to allow a good cleric to channel negative energy, or an evil cleric channel positive. After all, what's more useful to community of LE kobolds, the ability to do stuff with the undead that nobody likes anyway, or the ability to patch Karl back up after a mine collapse?

This sounds like you may misapprehend the existing rules; evil clerics are not prevented from casting cure X wounds spells at all, they merely can't spontaneously convert other spells into them. So, while there certainly is a certain loss of flexibility, it's not as significant as it may seem.

[Alex12]

This sounds like you may misapprehend the existing rules; evil clerics are not prevented from casting cure X wounds spells at all, they merely can't spontaneously convert other spells into them. So, while there certainly is a certain loss of flexibility, it's not as significant as it may seem.

No, I realize they can still prepare them. I just think it's dumb. It automatically assumes that negative energy is closer to evil, and positive energy is closer to good.

[Clistenes]

Nar Demonbinder is "any non-good," IIRC.

I'd like to see a non evil Necrocarnate, personally.

Yes, and I would like it available for Good PCs.

[Psyren]

It does, but it would require a lot of reworking.

I've messed around with a homebrew version, where instead of making Necrocarnum zombies, vivicarnates animate objects around them. Still would like to see something official, though.

There is an official adaptation, right there in MoI, for the Vivicarnate. They still animate zombies, but the squicky aspects of the fluff are removed and the zombies are referred to as "Redeemed" instead. It's a neat way to be a good-aligned "necromancer."

The purity fluff fits well with an Exalted character as well, and Incarnum itself goes well with VoP.

[TuggyNE]

No, I realize they can still prepare them. I just think it's dumb. It automatically assumes that negative energy is closer to evil, and positive energy is closer to good.

Fair enough; I don't wholly disagree.