Bard / Shugenja (or Spirit Shaman) Gish Build?

[Sintanan]

I must call upon my fellow Playgrounders once again. There is a new player who wants to join our group (a good friend of the group's) and his only experience with fantasy roleplaying was a larp that drew heavily from Record of Lodoss War.

But I digress. In the larp his character was an elven bard with access to elemental spells based on the Chinese elements brought forth by calling upon the spirits of his surroundings. On top of all this, the character was a gish.

...and now he wants to bring this character to D&D as his character of choice.

...however, I have never built a character using bard before and focused on a gish, and no almost nothing of their tricks or PrCs to use to make an effective bard/divine caster gish.


So, do any Playgrounders have any recommendations of where to start or what PrCs to use, or even what caster to use for the divine side of things?


Thank you all in advance for your assistance.

[Red Rubber Band]

Not quite all of what you're after (missing the Shugenja part, but does have elemental damage in it) but the best I can do off the top of my head: Bardblade/Bardsader (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864106/Song_of_Death:_Bardic_Badass?pg=1). Also, the first reply mentions a Bardadin.

[Psyren]

If it's Chinese elements you want, you should actually be looking at Wu Jen rather than Shugenja - that will get you Wood and Metal.

Do you have Tome of Battle? It's a great way to introduce wuxia/anime combat themes and abilities into D&D. In particular there is a great gish PrC there called Jade Phoenix Mage that will combine very well with Wu Jen and help make him a powerful gish.

[Sintanan]

Yeah, I managed to come across a brand new copy of Tome of Battle at a garage sale and bought it in a bundle of the Complete books I was missing. In the end I snagged the book for about $12 if I evenly split what I paid for the lot of em.

Never really looked through it though.. the one time I played a character out of it (Shifter Swordsage 1) the DM thought I was too powerful and basically gunned for me 'til I quit.


I'll look into a ToB Class/Wu-Jen/Jade Phoenix Mage build and that Bardblade link. Thanks you two.

[Sintanan]

First off, sorry for the double-posting. Second...

*headdesk*


After talking with my friend some more and explaining what the Bard's role in combat is... He doesn't want to be the bard class, just wants the singing/drinking/socializing part of the classic bard in his roleplaying.

Combat-wise he wants melee and ranged combat with sword, bow, and elemental spells. And wants the ability to debuff enemies.

So... I'm thinking Warblade/Wu Jen/Jade Phoenix Mage as a base from a quick glance through Tome of Battle. That should get him around tier 2-3, right?

[Psyren]

Wu Jen is high T2, possibly T1, so sure.

[Daebu]

First off, sorry for the double-posting. Second...

*headdesk*


After talking with my friend some more and explaining what the Bard's role in combat is... He doesn't want to be the bard class, just wants the singing/drinking/socializing part of the classic bard in his roleplaying.

Combat-wise he wants melee and ranged combat with sword, bow, and elemental spells. And wants the ability to debuff enemies.

So... I'm thinking Warblade/Wu Jen/Jade Phoenix Mage as a base from a quick glance through Tome of Battle. That should get him around tier 2-3, right?

Some thoughts:

1) You're actually looking at a concept with a fair amount of support in dnd splat. Unfortunately it has enough as to seem overwhelming. I think you're on the right track however.

2) Bard4/Crusader2/JPM4/Sublime Chord2/GoodGishPrC2/JPM+6 is actually a very solid build for what he's looking for. Don't be fooled by the bard entry, you've got wiz/sorc spells starting at level 11, lose only 2-3 BAB and have minimum level 8 spells. (If you use Abj Champ, you've got 18BAB and get 9th's at level 20). The only major downside is a lack of heavy elemental focus early (which is not a downside in d&d terms, but might be for his vision), but he can easily pick up blasting spells with his SC progression if he so chooses. This build also has the benefit of a decent starting skill base, and with 12 or 14 starting Int, he can keep the necessary ones quite easily. JPM has a natural "fire" bent, both with class features and Desert Wind access. Devoted Spirit could very easily be reflavoured to be "healing water", giving him a fire/water elemental flavour. (With white raven and stone dragon from his crusader levels easily fitting into wind and stone respectively.) I'm not sure how to fit "wood" into it, but I'm sure this would be a solid start for a dynamic, well balanced character with some neat tricks.

3) Trying to fight well with both a bow and a sword is a bit of a trap. You probably know this already. As there's more support for swordplay+sorcery, I'd encourage him to carry a bow as backup, but not make it his main shtick. Otherwise it's going to sting. The above build is an example of that.

4) Consider some bloodlines from UA. This will cost him in terms of xp, but assuming balanced implementation, he could benefit considerably. It would improve his IL for maneuvers, rebuild his lost caster level from gishing, and give him a few more Bardic music uses, assuming he goes the bard route. There's a handbook on Minmaxboards on how to implement Bloodlines in a non-broken, fair, and interesting manner. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.