Alignment change and falling as a paladin

[Mattsayshola]

I just have a few questions guys. I've been playing dnd for a few years now (though with roughly the same group and dm the whole time) and was wondering about a few things. What exactly constitutes an alignment change? For example, what would constitute a neutral good character switching to a neutral neutral? Cuz usually alignment-changing actions seem pretty devastating, but neutral actions don't. Same question for going from Chaotic Good to Neutral Good.
Also, how would you say each alignment should act, like lawful evil? Should lawful evil just be a lawful person who isn't afraid of murdering? (I've yet to play an evil class)
Finally, in this campaign I plan on falling as my paladin, but I don't know how to do so without metagaming. Can you guys give me a few examples in game of how I can push my paladin to falling? (I plan on prestiging as a blackguard)

Thanks!

[Kornaki]

Alignments are not very well defined in Dnd.... for example, see people arguing about Belkar's/Vaarsuvius's/Tarquin's/Malack's/I'm sure I'm forgetting a few (Miko probably? And Nale came up at some point recently) alignments. Basically in-game there are no good rules to decide what your alignment is - it is whatever you say it is, unless your DM disagrees strenuously and he can make your alignment something different.

It's easier to think of Neutral/Neutral as being the base alignment - to be Neutral/Good you have to actively try to be Good, by giving up on that you automatically default back to Neutral/Neutral. You don't have to actively do anything to be true neutral (that's why animals have that alignment), it's the alignment you get unless you prove otherwise.

As far as a paladin falling, there are a couple of tropey ways that it can happen. The paladin can become jaded with the law (ineffective, lets bad guys off the hook, hurts good guys too much) and lose the lawful aspect of his alignment, or he can become judgemental and lose the good aspect of his alignment (kind of an "if you're not with me you're against me" stance).

[hamishspence]

The easydamus site:
http://easydamus.com/alignment.html

besides repeating most of the existing info about alignment, goes into much more detail, in the individual alignment pages.

[Lightlawbliss]

...
... or he can become judgemental and lose the good aspect of his alignment (kind of an "if you're not with me you're against me" stance).

judgemental is not directly related to good. If anything, it is closer to lawfull

considering morality to be black or white (the "if you're not with me your against me") isn't really alinement at all imo. A lawfull person, a good person, a chaotic person, and an evil person could all have that attitude (more likely on evil, maby, but not necessarily evil).

[Kornaki]

judgemental is not directly related to good. If anything, it is closer to lawfull

That's why I said he'd become lawful-neutral

[Lightlawbliss]

That's why I said he'd become lawful-neutral

you said he becomes judgmental and the good evil axis changes.

[Mattsayshola]

I'm specifically looking for a why for my paladin to go evil though, thoughts? Normally wouldn't ask something like this, but my DM is a huuuuuuuge stickler for randomly changing alignments (unless it would hurt your PC, then he lets it happen)

[ArqArturo]

Alignment chart memes can also give you a bit of an idea.

[Kornaki]

you said he becomes judgmental and the good evil axis changes.

I see, I didn't word it very clearly. I meant his personality shifts so that he emphasizes only the judgement and drops the compassion/caring about others part of his personality, which shifts him to lawful/neutral

[dascarletm]

I'm specifically looking for a why for my paladin to go evil though, thoughts? Normally wouldn't ask something like this, but my DM is a huuuuuuuge stickler for randomly changing alignments (unless it would hurt your PC, then he lets it happen)

Why does he become evil? Well I suggest you figure out some event to make him fall. Here is an example.

John Good-fellow Paladin of Pelor is deeply committed to his goals/code, but also is deeply in love with Jane O'Hottie. During the course of his adventure (lets say level 5, almost 6. Blackguard baby:smallamused:.) The circumstances give him a choice. A large force of evil is attacking the holy city, and John's party seem to be the deciding factor. Archy McNemesis on the other hand has taken Jane captive, and said that if John's party fights then he will kill his beloved. Thinking that the paladin would fall due to this dilemma Archy finds it a solid plan. John does fight, for really Jane's death in this situation is not by his hands. A sad casualty of war. However, at the end Jane's death resulted due to John's upholding of good, in a stange twisted way. He thinks that everything he loves will go to ruin if he stays true to the path of light. He decides that his loved ones and friends will never be hurt again, and becomes a blackguard. Any who threaten them will meet a grisly brutal end, no matter the cost of random peoples lives.

[Mattsayshola]

Why does he become evil? Well I suggest you figure out some event to make him fall. Here is an example.

John Good-fellow Paladin of Pelor is deeply committed to his goals/code, but also is deeply in love with Jane O'Hottie. During the course of his adventure (lets say level 5, almost 6. Blackguard baby:smallamused:.) The circumstances give him a choice. A large force of evil is attacking the holy city, and John's party seem to be the deciding factor. Archy McNemesis on the other hand has taken Jane captive, and said that if John's party fights then he will kill his beloved. Thinking that the paladin would fall due to this dilemma Archy finds it a solid plan. John does fight, for really Jane's death in this situation is not by his hands. A sad casualty of war. However, at the end Jane's death resulted due to John's upholding of good, in a stange twisted way. He thinks that everything he loves will go to ruin if he stays true to the path of light. He decides that his loved ones and friends will never be hurt again, and becomes a blackguard. Any who threaten them will meet a grisly brutal end, no matter the cost of random peoples lives.
This sounds great, thanks!!

[Slipperychicken]

I'm specifically looking for a why for my paladin to go evil though, thoughts? Normally wouldn't ask something like this, but my DM is a huuuuuuuge stickler for randomly changing alignments (unless it would hurt your PC, then he lets it happen)

He might begin to value expediency over moral virtue, and sacrifice the latter for the former. Similarly, he might believe that his morality and Paladin status is a worthy sacrifice for the greater good.

A traumatic event might cause him to fall out with his faith.

He might need to make a hard choice, and pick the easy way out, like lying to an official or betraying someone.