Ray of Stupidity and like spells

[Yogibear41]

So in game we are currently in a world thats basically jurassic park aka full of big dinosaurs, and I was like hey, our wizard should just learn ray of stupidity so he can go around insta killing(comatose into coup de grace) everything. But when he tried it out on a dino it didn't fall unconscious. I figured our DM just didn't want us going around 1 shotting CR 20 dinos with a level 2 spell (we are in the 7-9 level range), but later I talked to one of my other friends and he said he remebered a rule somehwere about spells like that not working on things whos original ability score was lower than 4. Is that a rule somewhere? if so where? Is it just an errate on the spell?(I couldn't find one)

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm pretty sure that's a houserule. At least i've never heard of it anywhere.

[SiuiS]

It depends on how it works. I don't recall the exact stuff, but penalty spells (like, "target suffers a -6 penalty to [ability]") can be/are usually capped at minimum 1. Actual damage goes through, though.

Check rules compendium and spell compendium, it may be specific to some spells instead of an umbrella rule.

[Yogibear41]

the specific ray of stupidity spell has no such mention of can't reduce a creatures int to less than 1, Im of the opinion that it should have worked, but I am also of the opinion that our DM just didn't want us to break the game more or less.

[ericgrau]

Ya pretty much DM fiat. It would be broken though so there's good reason. For such spells I suggest an ability penalty that can't bring an ability score below 1, similar to ray of enfeeblement. That way you actually use it on high stat foes as intended.

[Deophaun]

Houseruling ray of stupidity is quite common. However, shame on the DM for fiating the result, instead of telling the player what the spell did in his game before the player wasted resources on it. The DM had a heads up as to the player's spell selection and what is was going to be used for, so there's no excuse. And IC, it's not like the wizard is clueless as to the effects of a spell that he has learned, prepared, and cast.

[Yogibear41]

Well our DM lets out wizard get away with innumberable things that he shouldn't, he basically sold his soul for the chosen of mystra template, our dm lets him role spellcraft checks to "learn" new spells out of thin air. I'm the one that told him about ray of stupidity. And yet he spent almost the entire game last week complaining that he was useless and can't do anything and that me(a warlock) is the only non useless caster in the party atm. Also he basically doesn't prepare spells, and is more or less spontaneous. We also have a training rule in place where you have to train for x+1 weeks where x is your new level, but since he is a chosen of mystra he gets some sort of special way to speed his training up where he rolls an int check against a DC that decreases as he levels up. He basically trained 8 or 9 weeks worth of time in 4 days, while I spent about 8 weeks sitting in a cave doing nothing(2-3 hours IRL)

Not to complain though

[sleepyphoenixx]

Wow... i'm actually speechless.

Going by your description the wizard guy sounds simultaniously like a huge munchkin
and possibly the most horribly incompetent wizard player i've ever encountered.:smallbiggrin:

[Spuddles]

Houseruling ray of stupidity is quite common. However, shame on the DM for fiating the result, instead of telling the player what the spell did in his game before the player wasted resources on it. The DM had a heads up as to the player's spell selection and what is was going to be used for, so there's no excuse. And IC, it's not like the wizard is clueless as to the effects of a spell that he has learned, prepared, and cast.

Or maybe the dm was honestly misremembering how it works? Touch of Idiocy is similar but cannot drop a target below 1 in a mental score; similarily with several other spells that bestow a penalty to ability scores. Touch of Idiocy even has an error in its listed entry as "damage" and not penalty.

But go on an talk trash and get hysterical about people you don't know and never met. I hear it's a real cool thing to do on the internet.

[Kornaki]

Or maybe these dinosaurs all have ten intelligence and it's a major plot point that you guys just missed :smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

Deophaun didn't seem that harsh to me. But then tones don't travel well across the internet. Here, have a Snickers.

Anyway forget animosity against the people doing it or against people criticizing the people doing it. I agree pre-stated rules are good whenever possible. Or at least let the PC undo his action once he discovers how it really works.

[Yogibear41]

Wow... i'm actually speechless.

Going by your description the wizard guy sounds simultaniously like a huge munchkin
and possibly the most horribly incompetent wizard player i've ever encountered.:smallbiggrin:

I will give him this he was sick(calling in over skype) and in the past he has done some pretty awesome stuff with stone shape. Also his roleplaying of an egotistical gnome is very good, come close to getting him killed a few times, but its good none the less.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I will give him this he was sick(calling in over skype) and in the past he has done some pretty awesome stuff with stone shape. Also his roleplaying of an egotistical gnome is very good, come close to getting him killed a few times, but its good none the less.

I wouldn't know, i don't play with the guy. :smalltongue:
But having the gall to complain about lack of power/options when playing a full caster just rubs me the wrong way.
That's not even going into the template (i assume you mean the Magister template?) that's definitely not intended for PCs since it's horribly overpowered (it doesn't even cost LA) and all the other special exceptions he got (free spells? Spontaneus casting? WTF?).

[Yogibear41]

he has a +10 to con
immunity to 1 spell of every level, and 1 spell like ability of each level, although he cant use the higher level ones until he can cast spells of that level. He also doesn't have to sleep. He has no LA. 3 of the 4 members of our current group(with me being the exception) made a pact with a devil for what would be the equivalent of a wish spell (it can do crazy stuffs in our game) they all have a year to accomplish a extremely difficult but not impossible task or they die and go to a bad place, even if they sucede and then later die they go to a bad place, They CANNOT be ressurected by any means(although there is always some way). Basically the reason we are on the plane we are on with the dinos is because time passes more quickly here 20 days to 1 day on our home plane, and do to the "training" rule we have it takes weeks to gain a level so we are effectively here to power level more or less without eating up the time clock. Its late february in game they have until july 4th to finish their tasks.

Other pacts were removal of a +4 LA and a permanet +20 to hit via truestrike on every attack.


The spontaneous casting is more along the lines of slack house rules supposedly he has a "list" somewhere of what he prepares each day but it seems more like he just casts what he wants to. Also since he is a "paragon of magic" or so he calls it the DM basically just lets him roll a spellcraft check think he has like a +25 or something absurd and if he rolles good he just figures out a spell from thin air. I think hes level 8 now, maybe close to 9.

Maybe one day I will play a wizard or even a sorcerer lol a warlock is the closest ive come to a full caster.

But the game is very much modeled of 1st edition in some aspects their are places/planes where magic simply doesn't work at all. So it kinda balanced out, on the plane we happen to be on 9th level spells don't work, but that has no effect on us. Also psionics is non-magical so some places psionics doesnt work some magic doesnt work, I would assume some places neither works. Thers also a 5% chance every time you use psionics that you attract the attention of some psionic monster and it comes along and tries to kill you, a hold over to some 1st edition rule. All kinds of fun stuff like that keeps everything interesting :smallsmile:

[Deophaun]

Or maybe the dm was honestly misremembering how it works?
The other players discussed Ray of Stupidity, making note of the fact that it would be great for disabling big, dumb beasts. "Misremembering" the rules is no excuse. Even if the DM honestly thought Ray of Stupidity did not work that way by RAW, that was the time to correct his players' 'misconceptions.' As I said, the spellcaster should know in character what the effects of his spells are, so this isn't something to be kept hidden.