Belkar's last stand

[Conte_Vincero]

So, I know the current consensus seems to be that Belkar will travel to the Snarl-verse for the remainder of his life, thus fulfilling the prophecy.

However, what if the prophecy is to be fulfilled in the more mundane way, i.e. through the direct death of the Belkster.

Belkar's character development arc seems to be heading down the redeamed villain route. His relationship with Mr Scruffy seems to have given him the one thing he never had, someone to care about. All his life his killed, stolen and raped his way selfishly around the continents. Now however he has Mr Scruffy, and that has given him something to live for, and possibly to die for.

It seems to me that the trope of redeemed villain is that when the person in question finally changes their perspective, they die. Indeed it seems that Vaarsuvious has already attempted to die as some atonement for her sins.

Now I'm not one of those people that is trying to say that because Belkar has shown some kindness, therefore he is now good. Quite the opposite, I believe him to still be evil, but that his redemption will come suddenly, through the death of Mr Scruffy.

The Silicon elemental has orders to kill the person with the greatsword first, with no mention of race, or even capability of wielding. My theory is that Belkar will take Roy's sword, and sacrifice himself to give the Order a chance to escape. He will go down like a total badass, fighting an enormous monster with a sword he shouldn't be able to wield.

I have felt that a big change in the way this story goes has been coming for a while. A big showdown at Kraagor's gate is now seeming increasingly unlikely. Now that the IFCC have made their move, it seems like the odds are getting increasingly stacked and that even Xykon is no longer essential to the story. A celestial conflict is not beyond the realms of possibility, and without higher backing, the Order may no longer drive the plot, but instead have to react to the changes, to find their place. A full party is no longer required, as they will not be able to fight the forces that are brought into play.

In short I feel that a change is coming in the whole structure of this story, and that that change will feature the redemption and death of Belkar.

I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense, it is very late here

[Dissection]

The Silicon elemental has orders to kill the person with the greatsword first, with no mention of race, or even capability of wielding.


Actually, its orders are to kill the human with the greatsword

[Rakoa]

In addition to the above, Belkar isn't aware of the Elemental's orders, and so wouldn't know to take Roy's greatsword.

[Kiraxa]

in addition to the above, Belkar is not a human.

[The Pilgrim]

In addition to the above, Belkar maybe would sacrifice himself for Mr. Scruffy, but not for Roy

[Oakianus]

In addition to the above, I could really go for some muffins.

Blueberry, maybe. Or maybe some chocolate chip? idk.

[alternaloser]

we can't rule out that Belkar dies here of course, but you're making the assumption that an elemental is mindless...it isn't. it has an intelligence score of 10 so shouldn't be fooled by taking advantage of a flaw in redcloak's simple instructions.

[Lombard]

Besides anyone who watched Spiderman 3 knows that the Sandman can only be defeated by water or forgiveness

[thereaper]

Also, since when is the consensus that Belkar will live the rest of his life in the rift? The consensus has always been (to the best of my knowledge) that Belkar will die.

[FujinAkari]

Also, since when is the consensus that Belkar will live the rest of his life in the rift? The consensus has always been (to the best of my knowledge) that Belkar will die.

Correct.

The consensus is that Belkar crossing into the other world wouldn't satisfy the "take his last breath - EVER" part of the prophesy.

[Chessgeek]

Correct.

The consensus is that Belkar crossing into the other world wouldn't satisfy the "take his last breath - EVER" part of the prophesy.

Well actually, if he enters this particular rift and it turns out that there isn't a beach nearby, his last breath would be pretty soon after.

Green-texted because, while what I said isn't false, anything other than the simple "Belkar dies" interpretation of his prophesy is not one that I take seriously.

[factotum]

So, I know the current consensus seems to be that Belkar will travel to the Snarl-verse for the remainder of his life, thus fulfilling the prophecy.

That's only a consensus among people who are ignoring 2 of the 3 prophecies concerning Belkar... :smallconfused:

[Klear]

I find it funny that this thread flips it on its head and says "what if Belkar actually dies?" :smallbiggrin:

I wouldn't be surprised if Belkar died suddenly just after the prophecy gets fulfilled by a technicality.

[Fish]

That's only a consensus among people who are ignoring 2 of the 3 prophecies concerning Belkar... :smallconfused:
Three prophecies? There have been multiple statements about Belkar by the Oracle, but only one of them highlighted in green.

Not that I think Belkar will survive. I'm just questioning the math.

[King of Nowhere]

Every time something treathens the order, someone theorizes that Belkar will die there. I think belkar will die in the last showdown, and nothing (except for belkar actually dieing) will make me change idea.

By the rules, Summon monster IX summons a monster with a cr around 11, something Roy should be able to take on its own. Plus, it lasts less than 2 minutes. I get the impression this elemental will be stronger than that, but still the order should be totally capable of handling it.

[Anatares]

Three prophecies? There have been multiple statements about Belkar by the Oracle, but only one of them highlighted in green.

Not that I think Belkar will survive. I'm just questioning the math.

I think someone quoted in another Belkar thread that there is another prophecy in one of the bonus comics of DStP. I read the spoiler anyway out of curiosity even though I haven't bought the book yet, but basically:

Sangwaan (The azure city seer with the blindfold) tells Shojo that Belkar will save Hinjo's life twice.

Hope this helps :)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh, hey, new comic. Mere minutes after I read the previous. Well, 10-15 maybe, but still.


Also, since when is the consensus that Belkar will live the rest of his life in the rift? The consensus has always been (to the best of my knowledge) that Belkar will die.
Assuming, of course, that you count by readers who believe it and not the posts/threads on the subject.



I wouldn't be surprised if Belkar died suddenly just after the prophecy gets fulfilled by a technicality.
...I hope this happens.

[137beth]

I still don't understand why people assume that Belkar's prophecy has to be fulfilled by the end of the current book...

[martianmister]

I still don't understand why people assume that Belkar's prophecy has to be fulfilled by the end of the current book...

Rich said that (in the previous book):

a. Someone will die in the next book.
b. We already know that.

[Porthos]

Rich said that (in the previous book):

a. Someone will die in the next book.
b. We already know that.

Yep. Turns out someone did die. Just not who we though. :smallwink:

[137beth]

I never thought Belkar would die this far from the end of the series:smalltongue:

[Porthos]

I never thought Belkar would die this far from the end of the series:smalltongue:

To be fair, I didn't think Durkon die this far from the end, either. :smallwink:

===

Anyway, the main reason some people think he is going to die soon, I think, is that he's walking around with approx 15 hit points.

That's.... kinda dangerous when running into the people the Order now generally runs into. :smalltongue:

[JBiddles]

I'm starting to think that Belkar almost dying will become a running gag through every future arc.

[137beth]

I'm starting to think that Belkar almost dying will become a running gag through every future arc.

I really hope so:smallbiggrin:

[martianmister]

Yep. Turns out someone did die. Just not who we though. :smallwink:

But we didn't already know it.

[Cat Dungeon]

Why would Belkar - a SMALL halfling - pick up and try to use a medium great sword?:smallconfused:


In addition to the above, I could really go for some muffins.

Blueberry, maybe. Or maybe some chocolate chip? idk.

Damnit Kakarot, is that you? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJxmSqdwIeM)

[AstralFire]

Why would Belkar - a SMALL halfling - pick up and try to use a medium great sword?:smallconfused:



Damnit Kakarot, is that you? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJxmSqdwIeM)

I swear, Team Four Star is less "DBZ Abridged" and more "DBZ if it was written like DB". :smallbiggrin: Which is why it's so good.

[Bluepaw]

I'm sure this has been pointed out ad nauseum, but not in this thread -- Belkar dying for-real-for-ever and all that jazz doesn't mean he's out of the comic, nor even marginalized from the plot. Given the increasing prominence of the IFCC as the story drives towards its climax, Death's Little Helper could still be of serious significance down in the netherzones...

[Porthos]

But we didn't already know it.

Sure we did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) :smallsmile:

More importantly, if one reads what Rich said in a not straight tone, it comes out differently. For instance, if Rich meant the tone to be ironic or sarcastic, then it could mean that he was playing with readers expectations.

When a lot of us read it at the time, we presumed it was about Belkar. So did I.

But at the same time, when I read it, I realized that the way it was worded left room for subversion. For doubt. For playing with expectations.

And when Durkon bought it, it absolutely met the letter of what Rich said. After all, it wasn't broken down into two bullet points like you put it. It was literally:

"Oh, and someone will die. But I bet you already knew that, right?"

The very way he put it is almost inviting people to go, "Wait a minute. Why did he put it like that?"

It's the half-mocking, half-winking at the audience sentence structure which practically begs people to look at it and think "Nah. Too obvious. But if not Belkar, then who?"

Turns out: Durkon. :smallsmile:

Doesn't mean Belkar won't die in this book. Very well might. But the 'someone will die' bit has absolutely been met.

[Cat Dungeon]

I'm sure this has been pointed out ad nauseum, but not in this thread -- Belkar dying for-real-for-ever and all that jazz doesn't mean he's out of the comic, nor even marginalized from the plot. Given the increasing prominence of the IFCC as the story drives towards its climax, Death's Little Helper could still be of serious significance down in the netherzones...

You make a good point. I mean, Miko, Shojo, Therkla, Yikyik, and Yokyok all died for-real-for-ever and they...oh.

[Cavenskull]

Sure we did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) :smallsmile:

That only confirms that at least two living creatures would die--we couldn't possibly know that any of them would die in the next book.

[Porthos]

That only confirms that at least two living creatures would die--we couldn't possibly know that any of them would die in the next book.

And Rich never said which one would die in the next book either, no matter what people read into it.

See, IMO it was a classic case of misdirection. For a good chunk of DStP Rich was waving his arms and making a big deal about Belkar's impending doom. And he cemented it with his piece of commentary in the book.

Then while we are all paying attention to what happening with Belkar, Rich quickly stabs Durkon in the neck with realtively little warning.

Yes, 'misdirection' is the word I should have used originally. That is what that passage in DStP commentary was.