[3.5/PF] Parry/Block/Dodge system

[Novawurmson]

So, I've been thinking about a number of the problems with combat (combat flow, damage being easier to optimize for than defenses, the lacklusterness of TWF and sword-and-board), and I've got an idea. I'd like thoughts and opinions:



Parry, Block, and Dodge

Whenever you can make an attack as a standard action or make a full attack, you can choose to forgo any number of attacks that could could have made. For each attack you choose not to take, you can attempt to parry an opponent's attack at any time until the end of your next turn.

When you attempt to parry an opponent's attack, you make an attack roll, substituting the result of your attack for your AC. A natural 20 does not mean you automatically succeed, nor does a natural 1 mean you automatically fail.

Parrying does not take an action. Like an attack of opportunity, it interrupts the flow of combat, but is not an action itself.

You can only parry an opponent's unarmed strike, natural attack, or weapon attack. You must be armed with a melee weapon to attempt to parry.

You can spend a standard action to ready a parry attempt.

You cannot forgo an attack on a charge to gain a chance to parry, even if you can make multiple attacks on a charge.

A creature cannot attempt to parry unless it has an Intelligence of at least 3.

Monk

When you make a flurry of blows and choose to forgo any number of attacks to gain chances to parry, you do not take the penalty on attack rolls from flurry of blows on your parry attempts. You take the penalty as normal on your actual attacks.

Two Weapon Fighting

If you have the Two-Weapon fighting feat, when you make a full attack when fighting with two weapons and choose to forgo any number of attacks to gain chances to parry, you do not take the penalty on attack rolls from two weapon fighting on your parry attempts. You take the penalty as normal on your actual attacks.

Combat Expertise

You do not take the penalty on attack rolls from combat expertise on your parry attempts.

Shield Focus

If you have the shield focus feat, add your shield's AC bonus and any enhancement bonus (including the bonus of from shield focus) on your parry attempt. In addition, you can expend a parry attempt to block a ranged attack (but not a ranged touch attack).

Combat Reflexes

If you have the combat reflexes feat, when a creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you, you can choose to forgo the attack to gain a parry attempt. This still counts as an attack of opportunity for the round.

Dodge

If you have the dodge feat, as an immediate action, you can make a parry attempt against a ranged attack (including a ranged touch attack) or a melee touch attack.

New Feat: Skilled Defender

Benefit: Treat your base attack bonus as equal to your total hit dice when making a parry, block, or dodge attempt. This does not grant additional attacks or parry attempts; it only grants a bonus on the parry attempt itself.


Questions:

1. Does this idea have any merit? Any major problems I'm not seeing.

2. Should you be able to parry for an adjacent ally as an immediate action like the duelist? Alternatively, should there be an easy way to get that ability.

3. Should smaller creatures take a penalty on parry attempts like the duelist?

4. Should there be a way for ranged characters to make parries or otherwise be more involved in the subsystem?

[kreenlover]

So, first off there was a feat for this in a Dragon mag. Forget which one. But, basically, it allowed you to make one opposed attack roll per round as a result of being attacked. If you beat their roll, it gets parried. Getting improved Parry netted you a +2 bonus on the roll and meant you could parry as many times in a round as you had attacks of opportunity (or, if you had combat reflexes you could use it a number of times = to dex mod or something)

1 I think the idea has merit, but you are kinda slowing combat waaaaay down.
2 I think you should be able to parry attacks on adjacent allies. Works well.
3 I think smaller creatures should not get a penalty, because they are smaller, faster, etc. They may not be able to parry it directly, but they can dodge, roll, deflect better.
4 No. When have you ever seen someone (in a non-superhero movie) block an arrow of bullet with their sword? It just doesn't work. But, the ranged people could parry, just cannot be parried

Anyways, I'd think that its a better idea to maybe just go with the feat.
Its from dragon 301 (3.0 rules, but should still work) Take a look at them, they really have some nifty things

[Novawurmson]

So, first off there was a feat for this in a Dragon mag. Forget which one. But, basically, it allowed you to make one opposed attack roll per round as a result of being attacked. If you beat their roll, it gets parried. Getting improved Parry netted you a +2 bonus on the roll and meant you could parry as many times in a round as you had attacks of opportunity (or, if you had combat reflexes you could use it a number of times = to dex mod or something)

Anyways, I'd think that its a better idea to maybe just go with the feat.
Its from dragon 301 (3.0 rules, but should still work) Take a look at them, they really have some nifty things

Took a look at the Dragon Magazine. As usual, there's an enormous amount of unnecessary feats that mostly make parrying useless unless you have them (seriously? They automatically get a disarm attempt when you parry?), but there were some nuggets, like targets that are denied their Dex bonus can't parry, which I was originally thinking of adding and encourages tactical movement (and is a buff to rogues and others with Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge).


1 I think the idea has merit, but you are kinda slowing combat waaaaay down.

I don't think too much (though I haven't playtested it much yet); you only get parry attempts if you're reducing your damage, so I don't think it'll happen every round.


2 I think you should be able to parry attacks on adjacent allies. Works well.

I like the idea, I'm just not sure how to handle it. I'm thinking parrying for an ally should be an immediate action, to reduce it to once per round.


3 I think smaller creatures should not get a penalty, because they are smaller, faster, etc. They may not be able to parry it directly, but they can dodge, roll, deflect better.

I can see that, I was just having trouble justifying it in my head. However, that's still a buff to small creatures and a penalty to big creatures because of the size modifiers to attack rolls. Maybe there can be a feat for big creatures...


4 No. When have you ever seen someone (in a non-superhero movie) block an arrow of bullet with their sword? It just doesn't work. But, the ranged people could parry, just cannot be parried

To be fair, this is a game of wizards, dragons, and squid-headed brain suckers. Maybe at something for levels 10-15.

Ooooh...I think there should be a psionic power, at the very least, to parry with your mind.

[Andion Isurand]

You could make each parry/block work by using an attack of opportunity for the round against an attack that would otherwise hit you... where your attack roll becomes your AC against the attack.

If you possess a shield bonus from equipment you actually wield, you may add it to this attack roll.

If you're flat-footed or denied your dexterity modifier to AC, then you wouldn't be able to use this ability.

However, there ought to be an opposed strength check with size penalties involved, so you're not parrying a weapon larger than you are.

However, you have to figure for any concealment as well.

[kreenlover]

Ok, but look at it this way. To parry you must 1) reduce your damage output, and parrying 2) reduces the enemies damage output.

This means that it is one more turn of combat than otherwise at least.

Yah, the dragon mag, especially the pre-3.5 are usually full of needlessly complicated crap. However, I still think that a feat that nets you a bonus, or maybe free parries (you can not sacrifice attacks and still parry) would be a good idea.

Maybe give all creatures a modifier on the parry roll equal to their negative attack roll size modifier? This reduces the benefits of being large or small. Or, do as Andion said, and make it some kind of opposed strength rolls. Or, that maybe if a smaller enemy blocks a larger foes blade (or vice versa) they can enter a sword lock. The sword lock gets resolved by opposed strength rolls. Whoever wins the sword lock gets a free unarmed strike against the other person.

Just some more ideas

[Seharvepernfan]

Check out my parry rules: Parry
Spoiler
Pre: Bab +1
Benefit: Whenever you are targeted by anything that requires an attack roll that isn't a touch (melee or ranged) attack, you can expend an attack of opportunity to try to parry the attack. This functions as an opposed attack roll. You must declare that you are parrying before you know the result of their attack roll. If your attack roll is higher than theirs, you negate their attack. You cannot make more parries in any one round than you have attacks in a full attack action. Your first parry in a round uses your full attack bonus, the second uses your first iterative attack bonus, and so on. Unless you can make more than one AoO in a given round, you may only parry one attack. Each parry requires an AoO.

If you are fighting with two weapons, you may parry with one or both, at your discretion. Regardless, you can only make as many parry attempts with either weapon as you have attacks with either weapon. For instance, if you have two attacks with your main-hand weapon and one attack with your off-hand weapon, you can only make one parry with your off-hand weapon, two with your main-hand weapon, or three if you parry one attack with your off-hand weapon and another two with your main-hand weapon.

For each size category difference between the weapon used for parrying and the weapon being parried, you suffer a -2 penalty to your parry roll (shields are considered one size larger or smaller for this purpose, if beneficial). In regards to projectile weapons, use the size of the ammunition. In regards to natural weapons, a secondary natural weapon is considered one-handed for a creature of that size, and a primary natural weapon is considered two-handed for a creature of that size. If your opponent is using power attack, you take a penalty to your parry roll equal to the bonus damage the opponent receives from power attack (if you are parrying with a shield or two handed weapon, this penalty is halved, round down, minimum 1).

If you are two weapon fighting with a shield via improved shield bash and you use your shield to make a parry, you gain its armor class shield bonus (but not its armor class enhancement bonus, if any) to your attack roll (in addition to any MW or enhancement bonus to attack rolls from the weapon aspect of the shield), and you lower the two weapon fighting penalty of the shield by two. You cannot use a currently animated animating shield to parry.

If you are using combat expertise and/or fighting defensively, you gain the bonus to armor class to your parry roll (but the attack penalty to any ripostes you make). You can parry while taking a total defense action, and you gain the AC bonus to your parry rolls, but you cannot make any ripostes or attacks while doing so.

You can only make one parry attempt for each enemy attack roll. You have to be aware of an attack to parry it. You can parry flat-footed if you have combat reflexes, as long as you are aware of the attack.

For every parry attempt you make with a given weapon, you suffer a cumulative -2 penalty to all attacks made with that weapon (but not further parries) until the end your next turn.


Improved Parry
Pre: Parry
Benefit: The weapon you parry with is treated as being a size category larger or smaller if this is beneficial to you for parrying.

Riposte
Pre: Parry, Combat Reflexes
Benefit: Whenever you parry an attack, you can expend another AoO and attack your attacker at the same attack bonus as the parry roll. If you are parrying while two weapon fighting, you riposte with whichever weapon you didn’t parry with and use the attacking weapons attack bonus. You cannot make a riposte on your turn.

Also of note from my houserules: Power attack, combat expertise, mounted combat, parry, riposte, weapon finesse, and two weapon fighting/improved/greater/superior are now combat options with prerequisites, not feats. PBS is still a feat, but no longer a prerequisite for other archery feats
(this means if you have at least 13 str, you have power attack for free – 15 dex, you have TWF for free, and so on)


If the Ranger selects two-weapon combat, he may ignore the dexterity requirement of the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat and any feat with that feat as
a prerequisite. He must still meet the feats’ other prerequisites, if any.
(no mention of light armor, so a one-level dip of ranger gets you free TWF, even in heavy armor).


Long story short: I made sword'n'board a viable style. TWF is better than it was, but arguably worse than sword'n'board is now.

EDIT: I do need to provide a way for people without monstrous dex to have enough AoO's. I'm thinking about a feat that provides more.

2nd EDIT: I'm also considering a feat that allows the use of the shields AC bonus to it's parry roll, without bothering with enhancing the shield as a weapon.