LGBTAitP #39: Making Your Way in the World Today....

[Lentrax]

... takes everything you've got
Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot
Wouldn't you like to get away?

Hello folks! This is the thirty-ninth edition of the LGBTAitP thread! The thread is to support, celebrate and discuss anything that falls outside the bounds of what is heterocisnormative. It is first of all a support thread, and then an education thread. If you want answers about some of the more difficult and trigger inducing aspects of LGBTA, there are a number of people listed below who can answer questions.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment. Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, Q, I, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.

If you have a question or two about LGBTA+, you can ask it here! You can ask for advice and support in here.

In addition, many members are willing to give private advice one on one, either through email or PM. The best way to do this is asking for PM help in thread, or else to PM one of the following people:

Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video)
Karen Lynn: General/basics, pansexuality, polyamory, will Skype(no voice or video, however)
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones)
Lix Lorn: General/basics
Tanail: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however)
Absol197: Gender identity issues
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype
Asteron Questar: Relationships, depression
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
Socratov: Skype-ness
Chess435: Skype
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means, this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!


Here are the rules of this thread!


Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe :smallsmile:)


Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236828)

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239610)

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13243754)

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249030)

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253352)

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256951)

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14110484#post14110484)

LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262926)

LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267638)

LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272099)

LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275839)

LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278799)

LGTAitP #34: <3!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281021)

LGBTAitp #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284121)

LGBTAitp #36: May Contain Bites! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286734)


LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288693)

URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290671"LGBTAitP #38: Once More With Feeling!![/URL]

And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG: Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer
Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. not very common.
AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth
FAAB/MAAB: Female/Male Assigned at Birth.


Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to two genders (usually men and women, sometimes transgender instead of one of those).
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)


Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.

Venus Envy. (http://www.venusenvycomic.com/) Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/first/) A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix. (http://www.khaoskomix.com/)As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. (http://alwaysraininghere.com/index.php/first-page/) "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you. (http://trippingoveryou.com/comic/gmorning-sunshine/)An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/) The LGBTA characters are well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. (http://whatsnormalanyway.net/?p=93) An FtM webcomic. Seems decent so far.

I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.


The Brand New LGBTA Arts & Crafts Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288941)


Thank you all for asking me to start the new thread.

It means a lot to me to know that I have some folks out there who can appreciate the trials and tribulations of one such as I.

I love you all so much... And yeah. Totally shedding tears on my ipad right now.

*so many hugs*

[Dark Elf Bard]

*nuzzles and bloops nose of everyone comfortable*

*gives muffins to everyone who isnt*

I have recently learned to make muffins and that is basically all I eat now.

[Karen Lynn]

D: MAI NOES WAS BOOPEDED!!!

New thread! Gotta say I has nothing really to add yet. Got made into a staff member of another forum for free form role play. Working on my voice more. Have a dermatologist appointment Monday for my skin.

[Kneenibble]

As is semi-traditional for me, budgie hugs for the new thread!
http://25.media.tumblr.com/3320b78b2ecc5276c45d19eed417efa2/tumblr_mprpuk9tIa1qd32leo1_500.jpg


And a special one just for Karen!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/247f866af52e3f3d0daf1b8489c97eac/tumblr_mq11k6yZH71qaoc3do1_500.jpg


Also, hello Dark Elf Bard. You are a muffin yourself.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Knee! I did not know you weren't dead!

[MetDitto]

My queerfriend has a gender therapist appointment for the first time - super excited for zir :3 and zie got confirmation for housing at university so it's all awesome! I have my next therapist appointment next monday and I'm going to ask about HRT, since I've come out to most everyone important except my stepmother... I've already been to my therapist quite a bit and she's awesome so I'm sure she'll say yes and sign stuff but here's something from her website:

Additionally, if you identify as transgender and choose to transition we are happy to facilitate that process, including assistance in telling family members, referrals to medical practitioners, assessments and letters required for surgery, etc. We are available as an ally to accompany you on the journey that you determine will lead to the greatest sense of wholeness and congruence for you.
so it's... I'm hopeful. Also she's helping me with my alters and junk. I also got housing with my friend Sebastian - we got an apartment on campus. Prior to that confirmation I was worried about being put in an all-male dorm but that is no longer an issue. Plan on coming out to him soon :3

[KenderWizard]

((hugs)) for Lentrax
It makes me happy to think that nominating you for the thread opening made you smile. :smallsmile:



And a special one just for Karen!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/247f866af52e3f3d0daf1b8489c97eac/tumblr_mq11k6yZH71qaoc3do1_500.jpg


This picture might be The Best Picture.

This is a really interesting story (http://groupthink.jezebel.com/adventures-in-gender-markers-airports-and-border-cross-796611609) about a woman who had to use a passport that said "M" instead of "F" for several years. She has some funny stories, some crappy stories and some scary stories.

[Astrella]

@MetDitto, that's great!

Does anyone know of some good voice related resources / have some more detailed advice?


Maybe its the speaker on my phone or your mic(assuming phone) but it sounded to me more effeminate, flamboyant male. >.<

Ouch. :smallfrown:

(I really don't like the word effeminate, cause it's very gender-policy and I've had it slung at me a lot when I was younger... not that you'd necessarily know that... )


I believe Astrella is talking through her nose, which is why you may think there is a mic/speaker problem.
Advice, if you would like it:
Don't shy away from chest talking, and by chest talking I mean using your diaphragm. In an effort to make your pitch higher, you have moved where your voice comes from, from your throat to your nose. I would urge you to work on talking from your throat, but keep the high pitch of your voice to sound more feminine. Talking through your nose, while easy, will hurt you in the long run, even physically. So I would try using your upper register but at the same time using your diaphragm to push the air through your throat, and not through your nose.~Matthew~

I don't think the speaking through my nose is cause of the avoiding chest voice, because that's a criticism I've had thrown at me more often even years ago and I think it's mostly because I breathe exclusively through my nose.

Any more advice on how I'd talk through my throat though?



Nice voice, sounds already very feminine :smallsmile:
And to answer your question: Yes, i for one record everything.

Thank you.


Hey, that's basically my job around here. :smallwink:

Also, your voice sounds cute. You sound much more American than I expected! I wouldn't be sure if it was a boy or a girl talking if I heard it and didn't know it was you.

Well, most of my English speaking skills come from hanging out with my friends on mumble, and they're primarily US-based.


Just frustrated right now.

I'll calm down in a day or so amd figure it out.

But thanks.

*offers hugs*


Hey there, there's something I'd like to discuss about the LGBT "community" in general.
(Under spoiler, but no trigger that I know of.)
A couple weeks ago, BF and I met with his aunt (who is a transwoman who's started transitioning not too long ago; I'll refer to her as A from now on).
We ended up talking about the LGBT community. Turns out that A tried to get in contact with the city's group, but it went rather badly, and when she invited another transwoman from that group in her home, it went even worse (mainly because that woman went TMI within 2 minutes of knowing each other without being invited to do so).
So, now, A is more or less actively avoiding the community. She just wants to live her life. (No criticism at all, just an observation.)

BF does mostly the same. I'm aware he's on a FtM dedicated forum, but that's mostly to get and share practical advice, and I only know it because he gave me the address. Many of our friends are LGBT, but we met them because of common interests THEN learnt they were LGBT, or through other LGBT friends who might be more in touch with the comm IRL than we do. So, he's not really involved at all either (keeping in mind he's not just trans but bi; still no criticism about involvement or lack thereof).

And here I stand, semi-actively documenting myself and staying in LGBT threads (okay, just this one actually, the parts of the Internet I frequent that happen to have been taken over by radicals don't count). I'm, IMHO, more aware than the average person, but I still look out to educate myself even better. Not sure I'm doing anything that makes a difference, pretty sure I'm not, but I want change.
And I'm kinda sorta an ally, or at least many people would agree I'm not queer enough to ride. (But that's not exactly the point I'm wishing to discuss, because I've accepted that what group I'm supposed to belong to is not what matters, but what I do, and so far I don't think I've done anything bad to people in that aspect.)
So, in light of this, I find I'm in a strange position. In retrospect, I wonder why I'm getting so involved when I don't specifically belong. At which point you're a bad person for not getting involved about an issue - and which issues - and at which point you're bad for getting too involved in something that's not your business - and therefore how much is my business. If I had the right reasons for seeking this comm, or not (given I came because I wanted to educate myself among people who weren't aggressively radicals, and LGBT people tend to have more insight about LGBT issues than, you know, straight cis people*).
At least I know I have the right reasons for staying: you're all great people, I'm glad to help you when I can, and I like to think the advice or comfort I provide can be useful sometimes.

One big thing I've learnt here is that the LGBT "community" - or most communities really - is not actually a monolithic community at all (let me add this is a lesson I've learnt about communities in general, and not just this one). It's mostly just a bunch of people who have one thing in common, but it's not enough to ensure they'll get along. They might want very different things, or they might want to reach the same goal with opposite and contradictory means. And it's very hard to tell who's right. If we could do so, we would have found the ultimate anti-bigotry weapon ages ago.
It's more like there are many smaller LGBT communities, whose members sometimes never really meet at all, because, paradoxically, the one other thing they have in common is they believe they should never have to meet at all. Like, let's say, I'm technically part of the Belgian community here in France but I'd be hard-pressed to find a Belgian here and have no interest to look for one in particular, even though I'm not rejecting my nationality and culture either.

So, what's the underlying interrogation here, you may ask if you've been crazy enough to read the whole wall of text? I'd say it is "Is getting involved in a LGBT comm important for you, and why?". I suppose it might make more sense for allies to answer that one, but I'll welcome all opinions.



*Also about feminist issues, but I'm the sort of person who considers LGBT and feminist issues to be intertwined to an important degree, what with the sex-shaming and body policing etc.

It's been very important. Most of my friends are queer and community and resources have helped me discover things... queer groups can annoy me though, especially with internal biphobia and transphobia and such and there's a lot of adherence to gender stereotypes in some trans groups that really annoys me...

[Jormengand]

New thread! Woo!

Am back. Did you all miss me?

[Irish Musician]

I don't think the speaking through my nose is cause of the avoiding chest voice, because that's a criticism I've had thrown at me more often even years ago and I think it's mostly because I breathe exclusively through my nose.

Any more advice on how I'd talk through my throat though?
I would suggest trying to move you voice back into your throat. What I mean by that is....when you talk through your nose you should be able to feel yourself pushing your voice into your nose. When you bring it back into your throat, you can feel it move back down into it. I have something that might help, it will take some time and will feel REALLY weird considering you breath exclusively through your nose, but try it anyway.

Have you ever acted like you had a cold and stopped you nose up from side your head so no air could get in here anymore? I want you to really concentrate on keeping your nose plugged from the inside (and if you don't know how to do that work on that first) and talking from your throat. Don't try too much in girl-mode voice, I want you to just work on breathing through your mouth more and not using your nose as much. I know it will feel like two steps backwards, but it will really help in the long run by not making your voice so nasally. Once you get the hang of that, try introducing the higher registers into your throat and finding a good high, but not falsetto, register in your voice and really work on pushing from your diaphragm and keeping your voice in your throat. If you have any questions, feel free to ask anytime either here or in PM! :smallsmile:

New thread! Woo!

Am back. Did you all miss me?
Course :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

[WarKitty]

Rainbow Cat says hello:

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2017000/maxygirlforever-2017863_450_448.jpg

[noparlpf]

*snip*
So, what's the underlying interrogation here, you may ask if you've been crazy enough to read the whole wall of text? I'd say it is "Is getting involved in a LGBT comm important for you, and why?". I suppose it might make more sense for allies to answer that one, but I'll welcome all opinions.

Not specifically, no. Partially because asexual doesn't count in some places (it is usually just LGBT after all) and partially because meeting new people in real life is scary.


My queerfriend has a gender therapist appointment for the first time - super excited for zir :3 and zie got confirmation for housing at university so it's all awesome! I have my next therapist appointment next monday and I'm going to ask about HRT, since I've come out to most everyone important except my stepmother... I've already been to my therapist quite a bit and she's awesome so I'm sure she'll say yes and sign stuff but here's something from her website:

so it's... I'm hopeful. Also she's helping me with my alters and junk. I also got housing with my friend Sebastian - we got an apartment on campus. Prior to that confirmation I was worried about being put in an all-male dorm but that is no longer an issue. Plan on coming out to him soon :3

Sounds good.


This is a really interesting story (http://groupthink.jezebel.com/adventures-in-gender-markers-airports-and-border-cross-796611609) about a woman who had to use a passport that said "M" instead of "F" for several years. She has some funny stories, some crappy stories and some scary stories.

Hm, neat. I'll read it later; I'm in class. (I've already been in this room for six hours and I can't leave for about another four hours. Ugh. Two back-to-back classes, then an evening exam.)

[Jormengand]

Course :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

Good good. Situation is henceforth normal.

~Antony~

[Mono Vertigo]

Thanks for your answers so far! The fact I might be more involved in these things than the people close to me who are directly concerned.
Also the whole "safe space" thing. We've seen discussions in this very series of thread on the subject, and sometimes I do wonder how much space I should put between myself and the concerned parties, especially in places that are not specifically labelled as "safe". Should have mentioned in the original post, but that's also part of why I'm thinking about it now.

Thanks for your link, Kender! I'm glad the scary stories weren't as horrible as I'd feared.

@MetDitto: yeah, I'd say you have pretty good reasons to be hopeful. :smallsmile: You go, both your friend and you!

[Eldest]

*hugs everybody*

Had a bad day yesterday. Having a good one today. That's all for me right now.

[Mono Vertigo]

*hugs back*
No more yesterdays. Hopefully.

[Eirala]

*hugs everybody*

Had a bad day yesterday. Having a good one today. That's all for me right now.

*hugs*

Also *welcomebackhugs* for Jormengand

[Jormengand]

Also *welcomebackhugs* for Jormengand

*Is welcomebackhugged*

Aie!

[Socratov]

welcome back poeple who have rejoined..., but first a relic form the old thread (alsways wanted to use the word in context :smallamused:)

(big, big relic)


Hey there, there's something I'd like to discuss about the LGBT "community" in general.
(Under spoiler, but no trigger that I know of.)
A couple weeks ago, BF and I met with his aunt (who is a transwoman who's started transitioning not too long ago; I'll refer to her as A from now on).
We ended up talking about the LGBT community. Turns out that A tried to get in contact with the city's group, but it went rather badly, and when she invited another transwoman from that group in her home, it went even worse (mainly because that woman went TMI within 2 minutes of knowing each other without being invited to do so).
So, now, A is more or less actively avoiding the community. She just wants to live her life. (No criticism at all, just an observation.)

BF does mostly the same. I'm aware he's on a FtM dedicated forum, but that's mostly to get and share practical advice, and I only know it because he gave me the address. Many of our friends are LGBT, but we met them because of common interests THEN learnt they were LGBT, or through other LGBT friends who might be more in touch with the comm IRL than we do. So, he's not really involved at all either (keeping in mind he's not just trans but bi; still no criticism about involvement or lack thereof).

And here I stand, semi-actively documenting myself and staying in LGBT threads (okay, just this one actually, the parts of the Internet I frequent that happen to have been taken over by radicals don't count). I'm, IMHO, more aware than the average person, but I still look out to educate myself even better. Not sure I'm doing anything that makes a difference, pretty sure I'm not, but I want change.
And I'm kinda sorta an ally, or at least many people would agree I'm not queer enough to ride. (But that's not exactly the point I'm wishing to discuss, because I've accepted that what group I'm supposed to belong to is not what matters, but what I do, and so far I don't think I've done anything bad to people in that aspect.)
So, in light of this, I find I'm in a strange position. In retrospect, I wonder why I'm getting so involved when I don't specifically belong. At which point you're a bad person for not getting involved about an issue - and which issues - and at which point you're bad for getting too involved in something that's not your business - and therefore how much is my business. If I had the right reasons for seeking this comm, or not (given I came because I wanted to educate myself among people who weren't aggressively radicals, and LGBT people tend to have more insight about LGBT issues than, you know, straight cis people*).
At least I know I have the right reasons for staying: you're all great people, I'm glad to help you when I can, and I like to think the advice or comfort I provide can be useful sometimes.

One big thing I've learnt here is that the LGBT "community" - or most communities really - is not actually a monolithic community at all (let me add this is a lesson I've learnt about communities in general, and not just this one). It's mostly just a bunch of people who have one thing in common, but it's not enough to ensure they'll get along. They might want very different things, or they might want to reach the same goal with opposite and contradictory means. And it's very hard to tell who's right. If we could do so, we would have found the ultimate anti-bigotry weapon ages ago.
It's more like there are many smaller LGBT communities, whose members sometimes never really meet at all, because, paradoxically, the one other thing they have in common is they believe they should never have to meet at all. Like, let's say, I'm technically part of the Belgian community here in France but I'd be hard-pressed to find a Belgian here and have no interest to look for one in particular, even though I'm not rejecting my nationality and culture either.

So, what's the underlying interrogation here, you may ask if you've been crazy enough to read the whole wall of text? I'd say it is "Is getting involved in a LGBT comm important for you, and why?". I suppose it might make more sense for allies to answer that one, but I'll welcome all opinions.



*Also about feminist issues, but I'm the sort of person who considers LGBT and feminist issues to be intertwined to an important degree, what with the sex-shaming and body policing etc.
So, forst off I haven't joined any LGBT community besides here (though I just seem to have gotten stuck here by some wonderful people and their affectionate grappling skills :smallwink:) and my friend who is LGBT (I don't know if 2 people can be a community, but it always felt like somesuch). I don't have any reason or need to (being a fringe 'member' sometimes called ally, sometimes being that counterargument for the sake of arguing). I do come here however to meet wonderful people and, you know, do the nice thing once in a while... I've got this weird karma thing going on on a conscious level stimulating me in doing good or at the ery least trying to be sensible for myself and others. yeah I'm weird like that. of which part is what matt explains in his post (thanks for that by the way, saves a lot of trouble, toil and effort, and it's really well put).


Very good question, Musashi. I have to go with chess on this one and say, "No, not really." However, LGBTA rights (same sex marriage, equal work practices, etc) are something I very much hold dear and definitely push for in my every day life. I wouldn't necessarily be a part of a LGBTA community because, honestly, a lot of them (this one aside) that I have approached are very, "Oh....you're straight and cis? Well, I guess you can hang around us or whatever, just don't get in our way," kind of thing. It was as if because I was straight, I was somehow automatically against them and wanted all of them to be straight and Cis too. Like you said, in the LGBTA community as a whole, there are lots of smaller mini-communities that seem to branch off from one another, so it does get confusing as to what, exactly, the LGBTA community is.....if it is, in fact, one singular entity.

That being said, I love you all :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

(bolding mine), and yeah, this is a major problem within the LGBT community. I have often discussed this with my friend, who basiacally went nuclear at those people when I mentioned I found such people, saying that they "...are a disease, the worst bigots and basically toxic for the entirety of LGBT-kind." (I have edited out the forum unfriendly words a bit, the fragment was in no way pg-13. I doubt it could actually make R-rated...


for the rest happiness and sunshine, courage and wisdom (sorry, have a lot of muscle ache due to new holiday job and using muscles I haven't used in a long time, so maybe after the weekend I have hugs to spare again)

[Lauren]

*nuzzles and bloops nose of everyone comfortable*

*gives muffins to everyone who isnt*

I have recently learned to make muffins and that is basically all I eat now.

Can I have nuzzles and nose bloops AND muffins? I'm greedy.

[MetDitto]

I wouldn't necessarily be a part of a LGBTA community because, honestly, a lot of them (this one aside) that I have approached are very, "Oh....you're straight and cis? Well, I guess you can hang around us or whatever, just don't get in our way," kind of thing.
(bolding mine), and yeah, this is a major problem within the LGBT community. I have often discussed this with my friend, who basiacally went nuclear at those people when I mentioned I found such people, saying that they "...are a disease, the worst bigots and basically toxic for the entirety of LGBT-kind." (I have edited out the forum unfriendly words a bit, the fragment was in no way pg-13. I doubt it could actually make R-rated...

trigger warnings yo.
It's important that people realize GSRMs are so marginalized in almost every society that safe spaces for them are necessary. Straight people and cis people have privilege, whether they like it or not. They can say anything about being straight or cis anywhere they want, with no repercussions. A gay man in Africa? A lesbian woman in Europe? A trans person in America? There are so many horrible things that can happen, execution, corrective rape, genital mutilation. Not to say these don't happen to straight or cis people. Just so much more to queer minorities that safe places are necessary. And then a heteronormative person comes in and wants their opinion to lead the discussion and drown out the minority voice. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, but the GSA at my school had to ban a straight cis guy from coming because he would suggest that coming out wasn't that difficult, or that lesbians just hadn't met the right guy yet, or that trans people weren't real because gender wasn't real.

[Socratov]

last post before bedtime :smallsmile:



trigger warnings yo.
It's important that people realize GSRMs are so marginalized in almost every society that safe spaces for them are necessary. Straight people and cis people have privilege, whether they like it or not. They can say anything about being straight or cis anywhere they want, with no repercussions. A gay man in Africa? A lesbian woman in Europe? A trans person in America? There are so many horrible things that can happen, execution, corrective rape, genital mutilation. Not to say these don't happen to straight or cis people. Just so much more to queer minorities that safe places are necessary. And then a heteronormative person comes in and wants their opinion to lead the discussion and drown out the minority voice. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, but the GSA at my school had to ban a straight cis guy from coming because he would suggest that coming out wasn't that difficult, or that lesbians just hadn't met the right guy yet, or that trans people weren't real because gender wasn't real.

answer(spoilered for same reason)
I do realize that, however, privilige (as I said earlier) is not something 1) one can control, 2)not saying all (I mean, it's a difference in chance of things happening, not a discrete measure.

I see how the example you mention does turn things sour. I also want to illustrate that while some cis-white-male-etc. people are bad eggs (one thing i am definately not denieing, sorry if I led you to believe this), so are some of the LGBT people who basically drive away peopel who are trying to be helpful by supporting the cause, individual people and (if possible) extending their privileges for the LGBT cause (like Matt here). Denieing those people to try and help basically antagonizes them to the (local) LGBT cause, which is (if I'm right) detrimental to what LGBT people are trying to achieve.

I may come across a bit strong on this issue since this effect is the very thing holding LGBT people back in achieving their goals (and it is the very thing LGBT peopel in general are trying to obliterate).

tl;dr - Do unto others as you would have them unto you. Plain and simple.

[Astrella]

I don't think it's a major problem within the LGBT+ community at all and I agree with MetDitto, I'm completely open to allies, but it's important to understand when you are in a queer space that queer people can't safely talk about their sexuality / gender and other issues everywhere, and to respect those spaces.

Edit; you know what's holding us back? Bigots. No-one else.

[MetDitto]

I do realize that, however, privilige (as I said earlier) is not something 1) one can control, 2)not saying all (I mean, it's a difference in chance of things happening, not a discrete measure.
It doesn't matter if you can control it or not. It's there, the least you can do is acknowledge that and understand what that means (including that one might need to not be in a place to make it safe for other people).
And it's not just a minor difference in chance of something happening. The general population has somewhere between a 5% and 10% suicidal ideation rate. Transgender populations? 65% ideation, 40% attempted. Privilege means something significant, and suggesting that it doesn't is the definition of privilege.


I see how the example you mention does turn things sour. I also want to illustrate that while some cis-white-male-etc. people are bad eggs (one thing i am definately not denieing, sorry if I led you to believe this), so are some of the LGBT people who basically drive away peopel who are trying to be helpful by supporting the cause, individual people and (if possible) extending their privileges for the LGBT cause (like Matt here). Denieing those people to try and help basically antagonizes them to the (local) LGBT cause, which is (if I'm right) detrimental to what LGBT people are trying to achieve.
It's not driving away people, it's asking them to respect a safe space. And not respecting that is why there needs to be a safe place in the first place. The rest of society caters to cisnormative/heteronormative people. Straight and cis allies that understand that won't stop helping the cause because of this, and if they do, they weren't really allies to begin with.


I may come across a bit strong on this issue since this effect is the very thing holding LGBT people back in achieving their goals (and it is the very thing LGBT peopel in general are trying to obliterate).

tl;dr - Do unto others as you would have them unto you. Plain and simple.
This is literally the opposite of the problem. I think it's the old white cis guys that don't pass laws respecting the identities of thousands of peoples that are the problem, and the people electing them. Namely, the bigots.

[Jormengand]

-Stuff-

Obviously, LGBTetc people need safe spaces, but that doesn't mean that straight people can't help them. If we're pushing them away, what are we proving?

[KenderWizard]

Thanks for your answers so far! The fact I might be more involved in these things than the people close to me who are directly concerned.
Also the whole "safe space" thing. We've seen discussions in this very series of thread on the subject, and sometimes I do wonder how much space I should put between myself and the concerned parties, especially in places that are not specifically labelled as "safe". Should have mentioned in the original post, but that's also part of why I'm thinking about it now.

Thanks for your link, Kender! I'm glad the scary stories weren't as horrible as I'd feared.


Yeah, I got really anxious reading it, I was really hoping nothing really awful happened to her!

I'm not precisely sure about your concern about safe spaces, but a space isn't safe by nature of excluding certain groups of people, it's safe by nature of everyone being good to one another and respectful.

[Eldest]

It doesn't matter if you can control it or not. It's there, the least you can do is acknowledge that and understand what that means (including that one might need to not be in a place to make it safe for other people).
And it's not just a minor difference in chance of something happening. The general population has somewhere between a 5% and 10% suicidal ideation rate. Transgender populations? 65% ideation, 40% attempted. Privilege means something significant, and suggesting that it doesn't is the definition of privilege.

Depressing correction and my own thoughts
40% attempted and survived, unknown sucessful suicides. Study by a pro-LGBTA group so possible bias in reporting numbers, but should be somewhat reliable.

I do agree with the idea that safe places should exist. My definition, however, differs. Safe places should make nobody uncomfortable. That does not mean people like Mathew can't join and help others, in spite of not needing the safe spot himself. Safe places are entire able to kick out the bigots and people who make others uncomfortable. This shouldn't be abused, though.

[KenderWizard]

So, I shared my little essay on nail polish and gender policing (slightly adapted), on The Everyday Sexism Project facebook page. It's a feminist group that shares examples of sexism and discusses topics related to intersectional feminism. And the responses are so lovely I wanted to share them with ye, especially Lena.

My adapted post:
A friend of mine is a young woman who went to work wearing nail polish the other day. Unfortunately for her, she's a transwoman, and she still has to present as a boy at work for the moment. A customer took the time to complain about the "boy wearing nail polish" and she got in trouble. It's a horrible thing to happen and it's a blatant example of gender policing. Gender policing is always wrong, almost always misogynist, seemingly always transphobic, but not restricted to trans-identifying people.

It's very obvious from a very young age that boys and girls, men and women, are supposed to be Different, and there are behaviours, attitudes and expressions that are gendered. These are, if not entirely culturally constructed, then certainly culturally enforced. There is little attention paid to the fact that all behaviours and expressions are part of overlapping distributions of popularity (ie, it's not "Women wear nail polish", it's "Lots of women wear nail polish and very few men do").

So take the nail polish. Expressing anything on your nails, taking care of your nails, showing off your nails; these are all gendered behaviours and expressions. It's a girly thing to do, it's something women do. It can be something women are _expected_ to do. If I was to go to some places with my short, unpainted nails, people would actually comment on that. Dipwits, but still. I would be ignoring a feminine behaviour that I _should_ be engaging in. Lucky for me, I've got a feminine voice and a cute little round face, I'm busty and curvy, and my body hair is so fair and fine as to be invisible. I'll be policed, but I'll be allowed get away with it, because I'm generally conforming. (Sexism.)

If a man, call him Matthew, showed up with his nails neatly groomed and painted, I'm sure all hell would break loose, at least in the dipwits' minds. Immediately, it would be assumed he was gay, no question. There is no reason, in this system, for a man to take on female-gendered behaviour, because women are classed as less-than. Being gay is to engage in a womanly behaviour (attraction to men), and therefore, it's assumed you've crossed the Gender Police Rubicon and could, at any moment, do other wildly inappropriate gendered things. (Sexism and homophobia.)

But what actually happened is that my friend, call her Alanna, showed up with painted nails. Alanna has been told that to be a woman, she needs to conform to these standards, and starting from a less privileged position than me, she's expected to work harder, to take more care with her expression. And anyway, she wants to paint her nails, and why not, it's fun. But to do so in a male-assigned body is to invite scorn. This is where gender policing becomes more vicious, because Alanna has been put in a vulnerable position. Being cisgendered is inarguably the best defense against gender policing. Trans people are punished for conforming, punished for not conforming, punished for complaining that they can't win. Because some people apparently really care about what other people near them might be doing and how that might, I dunno, slightly impinge on their cossetted little world view. (Transphobia.)

It's not to say gender policing doesn't harm cisgendered people, it absolutely does. Children especially are monitored, and people in the public eye. "That's for girls.", "That's a boy's toy.", "Don't cry like a girl!", "Man up.", "Pink isn't for little boys.", "You can't play with mammy's lipstick, it's only for girls.".

Nail polish isn't inherently female. It's not dangerously female. It's not politically female, or it shouldn't be. It's coded as feminine in our culture, and that's fine. But it's not Just For Girls And Only Girls And Only Female-Assigned-At-Birth Girls Or Else. And it's not true that seeing it on a male-assigned-bodied person is some travesty against nature. It's just unusual.

Dress codes and the like are fine, since this happened at a workplace. I'm all for it. Same uniform, good neat image. No long hair in the food, excellent. Clean hands and short nails, sounds good. But as soon as it gets into "X for women and Y for men", it becomes bull****. It gets to be "men can't do any feminine things, and women are mandated to do feminine things". That hits men hard, women harder and trans people hardest, like so many gender inequalities. It's official gender policing, and it's damn hard to fight against. A lot of people just don't see the problem with this stuff, which frankly baffles me, but there you go.

It's not right. I hope the next time Alanna wears nail polish, people compliment the colour if they like it and otherwise hold their poisoned tongues. For the rest of us, all we can do is keep breaking down those barriers, don't police each other's gender, and raise any kids we have or care for without teaching them to police gender either.

And here are the responses:
LB Administrative note: This is lovely and so I really wanted to post it but want to say right now - we will NOT tolerate ANY comments/questions/debate on this thread about trans identity - trans women are women and this group will not allow that to be called into question so this is a warning up front that anybody posting such comments will be banned immediately.
Kendernote: This is probably because of two people who made trans-erasing comments a week or so ago and started a big argument. Anyone can join the group and the administrators are really good but sometimes it happens that none of them are online.

N So sorry to hear your friend had that trouble - the customer clearly has no life, and her boss needs some remedial schooling.

BC Can I say that I LOVE the moderation of this group. Thank you for taking such a strong line on transphobia, homophobia and classism. It makes me feel much safer in this space.

LM Sad to hear this. I've done my boyfriends nails on occasion because he likes them neat and slightly shiny! And he works in retail, told me it helps him sell. And I agree with you on uniform policing being different based on gender. Enrages me.

O That's awful your friend experienced that :( I completely agree with you about the gender policing, it's ridiculous that men can't show care or attention to themselves and engage in things like nail painting etc, because it's seen as for females only, such a load of bull****!! As Natalie said the customer clearly has no life! and as such they have to fill their empty life by trying to get someone into trouble for something which they should be allowed to do no matter what their gender!!

BH It's sad to hear this. I work in an office with a trans woman and a trans man and I've never seen them treated with anything but respect. There's also a guy who works in a different department who wears a skirt and heels along with his shirt and tie, because he finds it comfortable. I feel so privileged to work in such an open and accepting place so it's a shame to hear stories like this.

Kender Thank you for taking a no-nonsense line, Laura. And thank you to everyone for the comments. I'll share them with my friend, she'll love to hear them!

Edit: Update:
LW I've nothing terribly useful to add alas but it's really awful for your friend. :( Posts like this are a great reminder for the cis gendered among us a) of our privilege and b) some of what we can do to undermine and stand against gender policing. Thanks for posting and hugs to your friend. x

Edit: Update 2
É This is a very well written argument. I'm sorry your friend has to endure this horrendous discrimination. Today, my four year old boy asked to have his toe nails painted "like mummy". I happily obliged.

F If wearing nails polish makes her happy, that's all that matters. Happy people make the world a happy place. I'm so sorry to hear such discrimination. Hugs to you both.

S That was really well written, I really appreciate you posting it.

LW Me too É, mine had red nails (to the knuckles) for a while when he did it himself...


And here's the link (https://www.facebook.com/groups/391256930892127/permalink/626898420661309/), if anyone's in The Everyday Sexism Project group on facebook, or wants to be!

[Mynxae]

From old thread:


Yep, Mynxae was my first boyfriend. We broke it off though due to distance issues.

Unfortunately, yes. And we don't talk as much as we used to, not nearly as much. Heck, I'm lucky to have a conversation with Chessy once a week these days. :smallfrown:

[Eirala]

Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

[noparlpf]

So, I shared my little essay on nail polish and gender policing (slightly adapted), on The Everyday Sexism Project facebook page. It's a feminist group that shares examples of sexism and discusses topics related to intersectional feminism. And the responses are so lovely I wanted to share them with ye, especially Lena.

My adapted post:
A friend of mine is a young woman who went to work wearing nail polish the other day. Unfortunately for her, she's a transwoman, and she still has to present as a boy at work for the moment. A customer took the time to complain about the "boy wearing nail polish" and she got in trouble. It's a horrible thing to happen and it's a blatant example of gender policing. Gender policing is always wrong, almost always misogynist, seemingly always transphobic, but not restricted to trans-identifying people.

It's very obvious from a very young age that boys and girls, men and women, are supposed to be Different, and there are behaviours, attitudes and expressions that are gendered. These are, if not entirely culturally constructed, then certainly culturally enforced. There is little attention paid to the fact that all behaviours and expressions are part of overlapping distributions of popularity (ie, it's not "Women wear nail polish", it's "Lots of women wear nail polish and very few men do").

So take the nail polish. Expressing anything on your nails, taking care of your nails, showing off your nails; these are all gendered behaviours and expressions. It's a girly thing to do, it's something women do. It can be something women are _expected_ to do. If I was to go to some places with my short, unpainted nails, people would actually comment on that. Dipwits, but still. I would be ignoring a feminine behaviour that I _should_ be engaging in. Lucky for me, I've got a feminine voice and a cute little round face, I'm busty and curvy, and my body hair is so fair and fine as to be invisible. I'll be policed, but I'll be allowed get away with it, because I'm generally conforming. (Sexism.)

If a man, call him Matthew, showed up with his nails neatly groomed and painted, I'm sure all hell would break loose, at least in the dipwits' minds. Immediately, it would be assumed he was gay, no question. There is no reason, in this system, for a man to take on female-gendered behaviour, because women are classed as less-than. Being gay is to engage in a womanly behaviour (attraction to men), and therefore, it's assumed you've crossed the Gender Police Rubicon and could, at any moment, do other wildly inappropriate gendered things. (Sexism and homophobia.)

But what actually happened is that my friend, call her Alanna, showed up with painted nails. Alanna has been told that to be a woman, she needs to conform to these standards, and starting from a less privileged position than me, she's expected to work harder, to take more care with her expression. And anyway, she wants to paint her nails, and why not, it's fun. But to do so in a male-assigned body is to invite scorn. This is where gender policing becomes more vicious, because Alanna has been put in a vulnerable position. Being cisgendered is inarguably the best defense against gender policing. Trans people are punished for conforming, punished for not conforming, punished for complaining that they can't win. Because some people apparently really care about what other people near them might be doing and how that might, I dunno, slightly impinge on their cossetted little world view. (Transphobia.)

It's not to say gender policing doesn't harm cisgendered people, it absolutely does. Children especially are monitored, and people in the public eye. "That's for girls.", "That's a boy's toy.", "Don't cry like a girl!", "Man up.", "Pink isn't for little boys.", "You can't play with mammy's lipstick, it's only for girls.".

Nail polish isn't inherently female. It's not dangerously female. It's not politically female, or it shouldn't be. It's coded as feminine in our culture, and that's fine. But it's not Just For Girls And Only Girls And Only Female-Assigned-At-Birth Girls Or Else. And it's not true that seeing it on a male-assigned-bodied person is some travesty against nature. It's just unusual.

Dress codes and the like are fine, since this happened at a workplace. I'm all for it. Same uniform, good neat image. No long hair in the food, excellent. Clean hands and short nails, sounds good. But as soon as it gets into "X for women and Y for men", it becomes bull****. It gets to be "men can't do any feminine things, and women are mandated to do feminine things". That hits men hard, women harder and trans people hardest, like so many gender inequalities. It's official gender policing, and it's damn hard to fight against. A lot of people just don't see the problem with this stuff, which frankly baffles me, but there you go.

It's not right. I hope the next time Alanna wears nail polish, people compliment the colour if they like it and otherwise hold their poisoned tongues. For the rest of us, all we can do is keep breaking down those barriers, don't police each other's gender, and raise any kids we have or care for without teaching them to police gender either.

And here are the responses:
LB Administrative note: This is lovely and so I really wanted to post it but want to say right now - we will NOT tolerate ANY comments/questions/debate on this thread about trans identity - trans women are women and this group will not allow that to be called into question so this is a warning up front that anybody posting such comments will be banned immediately.
Kendernote: This is probably because of two people who made trans-erasing comments a week or so ago and started a big argument. Anyone can join the group and the administrators are really good but sometimes it happens that none of them are online.

N So sorry to hear your friend had that trouble - the customer clearly has no life, and her boss needs some remedial schooling.

BC Can I say that I LOVE the moderation of this group. Thank you for taking such a strong line on transphobia, homophobia and classism. It makes me feel much safer in this space.

LM Sad to hear this. I've done my boyfriends nails on occasion because he likes them neat and slightly shiny! And he works in retail, told me it helps him sell. And I agree with you on uniform policing being different based on gender. Enrages me.

O That's awful your friend experienced that :( I completely agree with you about the gender policing, it's ridiculous that men can't show care or attention to themselves and engage in things like nail painting etc, because it's seen as for females only, such a load of bull****!! As Natalie said the customer clearly has no life! and as such they have to fill their empty life by trying to get someone into trouble for something which they should be allowed to do no matter what their gender!!

BH It's sad to hear this. I work in an office with a trans woman and a trans man and I've never seen them treated with anything but respect. There's also a guy who works in a different department who wears a skirt and heels along with his shirt and tie, because he finds it comfortable. I feel so privileged to work in such an open and accepting place so it's a shame to hear stories like this.

Kender Thank you for taking a no-nonsense line, Laura. And thank you to everyone for the comments. I'll share them with my friend, she'll love to hear them!

Edit: Update:
LW I've nothing terribly useful to add alas but it's really awful for your friend. :( Posts like this are a great reminder for the cis gendered among us a) of our privilege and b) some of what we can do to undermine and stand against gender policing. Thanks for posting and hugs to your friend. x


And here's the link (https://www.facebook.com/groups/391256930892127/permalink/626898420661309/), if anyone's in The Everyday Sexism Project group on facebook, or wants to be!

Awesome. I'm bookmarking this post, I think. Nice responses.

[KenderWizard]

Awesome. I'm bookmarking this post, I think. Nice responses.

Thanks! I added a few more responses. I'm really glad this very mixed group of feminists and feminist-minded people are either supportive or decent enough to keep quiet if they disagree that "Alanna" should be able to wear nail polish.

Also, ((hugs)) for Tanail if you want them, your mother is being childish and mean and I hope she comes around.

[Eirala]

*is being hugged* Thanks Kender :smallsmile: and yes, childish is the best way to describe her atm.

[noparlpf]

*is being hugged* Thanks Kender :smallsmile: and yes, childish is the best way to describe her atm.

Ah, just missed your post. I'm sorry about your mother, that stinks. *hugs*

[The Succubus]

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

[Mina Kobold]

So, I shared my little essay on nail polish and gender policing (slightly adapted), on The Everyday Sexism Project facebook page. It's a feminist group that shares examples of sexism and discusses topics related to intersectional feminism. And the responses are so lovely I wanted to share them with ye, especially Lena.

My adapted post:
A friend of mine is a young woman who went to work wearing nail polish the other day. Unfortunately for her, she's a transwoman, and she still has to present as a boy at work for the moment. A customer took the time to complain about the "boy wearing nail polish" and she got in trouble. It's a horrible thing to happen and it's a blatant example of gender policing. Gender policing is always wrong, almost always misogynist, seemingly always transphobic, but not restricted to trans-identifying people.

It's very obvious from a very young age that boys and girls, men and women, are supposed to be Different, and there are behaviours, attitudes and expressions that are gendered. These are, if not entirely culturally constructed, then certainly culturally enforced. There is little attention paid to the fact that all behaviours and expressions are part of overlapping distributions of popularity (ie, it's not "Women wear nail polish", it's "Lots of women wear nail polish and very few men do").

So take the nail polish. Expressing anything on your nails, taking care of your nails, showing off your nails; these are all gendered behaviours and expressions. It's a girly thing to do, it's something women do. It can be something women are _expected_ to do. If I was to go to some places with my short, unpainted nails, people would actually comment on that. Dipwits, but still. I would be ignoring a feminine behaviour that I _should_ be engaging in. Lucky for me, I've got a feminine voice and a cute little round face, I'm busty and curvy, and my body hair is so fair and fine as to be invisible. I'll be policed, but I'll be allowed get away with it, because I'm generally conforming. (Sexism.)

If a man, call him Matthew, showed up with his nails neatly groomed and painted, I'm sure all hell would break loose, at least in the dipwits' minds. Immediately, it would be assumed he was gay, no question. There is no reason, in this system, for a man to take on female-gendered behaviour, because women are classed as less-than. Being gay is to engage in a womanly behaviour (attraction to men), and therefore, it's assumed you've crossed the Gender Police Rubicon and could, at any moment, do other wildly inappropriate gendered things. (Sexism and homophobia.)

But what actually happened is that my friend, call her Alanna, showed up with painted nails. Alanna has been told that to be a woman, she needs to conform to these standards, and starting from a less privileged position than me, she's expected to work harder, to take more care with her expression. And anyway, she wants to paint her nails, and why not, it's fun. But to do so in a male-assigned body is to invite scorn. This is where gender policing becomes more vicious, because Alanna has been put in a vulnerable position. Being cisgendered is inarguably the best defense against gender policing. Trans people are punished for conforming, punished for not conforming, punished for complaining that they can't win. Because some people apparently really care about what other people near them might be doing and how that might, I dunno, slightly impinge on their cossetted little world view. (Transphobia.)

It's not to say gender policing doesn't harm cisgendered people, it absolutely does. Children especially are monitored, and people in the public eye. "That's for girls.", "That's a boy's toy.", "Don't cry like a girl!", "Man up.", "Pink isn't for little boys.", "You can't play with mammy's lipstick, it's only for girls.".

Nail polish isn't inherently female. It's not dangerously female. It's not politically female, or it shouldn't be. It's coded as feminine in our culture, and that's fine. But it's not Just For Girls And Only Girls And Only Female-Assigned-At-Birth Girls Or Else. And it's not true that seeing it on a male-assigned-bodied person is some travesty against nature. It's just unusual.

Dress codes and the like are fine, since this happened at a workplace. I'm all for it. Same uniform, good neat image. No long hair in the food, excellent. Clean hands and short nails, sounds good. But as soon as it gets into "X for women and Y for men", it becomes bull****. It gets to be "men can't do any feminine things, and women are mandated to do feminine things". That hits men hard, women harder and trans people hardest, like so many gender inequalities. It's official gender policing, and it's damn hard to fight against. A lot of people just don't see the problem with this stuff, which frankly baffles me, but there you go.

It's not right. I hope the next time Alanna wears nail polish, people compliment the colour if they like it and otherwise hold their poisoned tongues. For the rest of us, all we can do is keep breaking down those barriers, don't police each other's gender, and raise any kids we have or care for without teaching them to police gender either.

And here are the responses:
LB Administrative note: This is lovely and so I really wanted to post it but want to say right now - we will NOT tolerate ANY comments/questions/debate on this thread about trans identity - trans women are women and this group will not allow that to be called into question so this is a warning up front that anybody posting such comments will be banned immediately.
Kendernote: This is probably because of two people who made trans-erasing comments a week or so ago and started a big argument. Anyone can join the group and the administrators are really good but sometimes it happens that none of them are online.

N So sorry to hear your friend had that trouble - the customer clearly has no life, and her boss needs some remedial schooling.

BC Can I say that I LOVE the moderation of this group. Thank you for taking such a strong line on transphobia, homophobia and classism. It makes me feel much safer in this space.

LM Sad to hear this. I've done my boyfriends nails on occasion because he likes them neat and slightly shiny! And he works in retail, told me it helps him sell. And I agree with you on uniform policing being different based on gender. Enrages me.

O That's awful your friend experienced that :( I completely agree with you about the gender policing, it's ridiculous that men can't show care or attention to themselves and engage in things like nail painting etc, because it's seen as for females only, such a load of bull****!! As Natalie said the customer clearly has no life! and as such they have to fill their empty life by trying to get someone into trouble for something which they should be allowed to do no matter what their gender!!

BH It's sad to hear this. I work in an office with a trans woman and a trans man and I've never seen them treated with anything but respect. There's also a guy who works in a different department who wears a skirt and heels along with his shirt and tie, because he finds it comfortable. I feel so privileged to work in such an open and accepting place so it's a shame to hear stories like this.

Kender Thank you for taking a no-nonsense line, Laura. And thank you to everyone for the comments. I'll share them with my friend, she'll love to hear them!

Edit: Update:
LW I've nothing terribly useful to add alas but it's really awful for your friend. :( Posts like this are a great reminder for the cis gendered among us a) of our privilege and b) some of what we can do to undermine and stand against gender policing. Thanks for posting and hugs to your friend. x

Edit: Update 2
É This is a very well written argument. I'm sorry your friend has to endure this horrendous discrimination. Today, my four year old boy asked to have his toe nails painted "like mummy". I happily obliged.

F If wearing nails polish makes her happy, that's all that matters. Happy people make the world a happy place. I'm so sorry to hear such discrimination. Hugs to you both.

S That was really well written, I really appreciate you posting it.

LW Me too É, mine had red nails (to the knuckles) for a while when he did it himself...


And here's the link (https://www.facebook.com/groups/391256930892127/permalink/626898420661309/), if anyone's in The Everyday Sexism Project group on facebook, or wants to be!

Glad to hear it was so well received and that people are so nice. ^_^


Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

*Offers of all the hugs and edibles*

That sounds terrible. I wish I could help...

Oh, would this help:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/195/3/6/eevee_1_by_keveak-d6dfwo5.png

It was inspired by a certain Eevee here, but hopefully it can also work as generally cheering up. :3


So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

O.O -.- O.O

So, so, jealous. Eyes turning greener.

*Vainly attempts to get to unidentified train station too*

Congrats. If this continues, the links between peeps will make a super-awesome network! ^w^

[Dark Elf Bard]

So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

[noparlpf]

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

Neat.


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

That's really awful. I'm sorry.

[turkishproverb]

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

That's fun.


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

:smallfurious::furious:

Then they aren't your parents.

[Lady Serpentine]

So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

Like I said last night... That sucks, incredibly so, and you shouldn't have to, but at least you have (presumably) supporting people to stay with since you do.

~Raven~

[Eirala]

Ah, just missed your post. I'm sorry about your mother, that stinks. *hugs*

Thanks *hugs*


*Offers of all the hugs and edibles*

That sounds terrible. I wish I could help...

Oh, would this help:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/195/3/6/eevee_1_by_keveak-d6dfwo5.png

It was inspired by a certain Eevee here, but hopefully it can also work as generally cheering up. :3

Yes, this does help :3
*gets all the hugs, candy and cake*


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

What an awful thing to say and do :smallfrown:
I really hope your parents come around eventually! *offers hugs*

~Katharina~

[Eldest]

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

How do you manage to meet so many of the UK people... (envious)


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

Well that's bull**** on the people who sired/birthed you's part.


Then they aren't your parents.

Also, that.

[Lentrax]

Wow. So many parents who can't support their kids...

I am so so sorry guys and gals.

If you need to talk, I've got an open PM box.

[Kindablue]

Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits. I hope your mother comes around to accepting you one day.

[Morcleon]

Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

At this point, it's quite clear that she doesn't care. I would say to just ignore her completely. She doesn't deserve to have a wonderful person like you for a daughter. *hug*

~Setsuna~


So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

Hehe... good for you. :smallsmile:

...wish I could meet some people... :smalltongue:

~Setsuna~


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

*hugs* Well, at least your godparents are more tolerant of you, right?

And your parents aren't worthy of being parents. :smallannoyed:

~Setsuna~

[Coidzor]

Kenderwizard: *wanders off to investigate all this then*


Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."

That's completely and utterly ********. I'm sorry. Glad to hear you have someone to go to though.


How do you manage to meet so many of the UK people... (envious)

The UK is pretty small, so if you can actually afford to move around in it, it's not that difficult. If there were roads you could just bike along you could accomplish it in a matter of months.


Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt anymore. :smallfrown: I'm sorry. Less time around her seems like it'd be better for you, since communication seems to have broken down and outright failed here.


Unfortunately, yes. And we don't talk as much as we used to, not nearly as much. Heck, I'm lucky to have a conversation with Chessy once a week these days. :smallfrown:

Sort of the nature of the beast even when awkward and resentment aren't active players, sadly. Especially when distance and different timezones are involved. :smallfrown:

[TaiLiu]

New thread! Woo!

Am back. Did you all miss me?
Yes, we did.

Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.
Oh, no! I hope your mother apologises later on.

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3
Neat! Are you conversing?

So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~
Oh, dear. I hope it's the former!

[Lauren]

So, I shared my little essay on nail polish and gender policing (slightly adapted), on The Everyday Sexism Project facebook page. It's a feminist group that shares examples of sexism and discusses topics related to intersectional feminism. And the responses are so lovely I wanted to share them with ye, especially Lena.

My adapted post:
A friend of mine is a young woman who went to work wearing nail polish the other day. Unfortunately for her, she's a transwoman, and she still has to present as a boy at work for the moment. A customer took the time to complain about the "boy wearing nail polish" and she got in trouble. It's a horrible thing to happen and it's a blatant example of gender policing. Gender policing is always wrong, almost always misogynist, seemingly always transphobic, but not restricted to trans-identifying people.

It's very obvious from a very young age that boys and girls, men and women, are supposed to be Different, and there are behaviours, attitudes and expressions that are gendered. These are, if not entirely culturally constructed, then certainly culturally enforced. There is little attention paid to the fact that all behaviours and expressions are part of overlapping distributions of popularity (ie, it's not "Women wear nail polish", it's "Lots of women wear nail polish and very few men do").

So take the nail polish. Expressing anything on your nails, taking care of your nails, showing off your nails; these are all gendered behaviours and expressions. It's a girly thing to do, it's something women do. It can be something women are _expected_ to do. If I was to go to some places with my short, unpainted nails, people would actually comment on that. Dipwits, but still. I would be ignoring a feminine behaviour that I _should_ be engaging in. Lucky for me, I've got a feminine voice and a cute little round face, I'm busty and curvy, and my body hair is so fair and fine as to be invisible. I'll be policed, but I'll be allowed get away with it, because I'm generally conforming. (Sexism.)

If a man, call him Matthew, showed up with his nails neatly groomed and painted, I'm sure all hell would break loose, at least in the dipwits' minds. Immediately, it would be assumed he was gay, no question. There is no reason, in this system, for a man to take on female-gendered behaviour, because women are classed as less-than. Being gay is to engage in a womanly behaviour (attraction to men), and therefore, it's assumed you've crossed the Gender Police Rubicon and could, at any moment, do other wildly inappropriate gendered things. (Sexism and homophobia.)

But what actually happened is that my friend, call her Alanna, showed up with painted nails. Alanna has been told that to be a woman, she needs to conform to these standards, and starting from a less privileged position than me, she's expected to work harder, to take more care with her expression. And anyway, she wants to paint her nails, and why not, it's fun. But to do so in a male-assigned body is to invite scorn. This is where gender policing becomes more vicious, because Alanna has been put in a vulnerable position. Being cisgendered is inarguably the best defense against gender policing. Trans people are punished for conforming, punished for not conforming, punished for complaining that they can't win. Because some people apparently really care about what other people near them might be doing and how that might, I dunno, slightly impinge on their cossetted little world view. (Transphobia.)

It's not to say gender policing doesn't harm cisgendered people, it absolutely does. Children especially are monitored, and people in the public eye. "That's for girls.", "That's a boy's toy.", "Don't cry like a girl!", "Man up.", "Pink isn't for little boys.", "You can't play with mammy's lipstick, it's only for girls.".

Nail polish isn't inherently female. It's not dangerously female. It's not politically female, or it shouldn't be. It's coded as feminine in our culture, and that's fine. But it's not Just For Girls And Only Girls And Only Female-Assigned-At-Birth Girls Or Else. And it's not true that seeing it on a male-assigned-bodied person is some travesty against nature. It's just unusual.

Dress codes and the like are fine, since this happened at a workplace. I'm all for it. Same uniform, good neat image. No long hair in the food, excellent. Clean hands and short nails, sounds good. But as soon as it gets into "X for women and Y for men", it becomes bull****. It gets to be "men can't do any feminine things, and women are mandated to do feminine things". That hits men hard, women harder and trans people hardest, like so many gender inequalities. It's official gender policing, and it's damn hard to fight against. A lot of people just don't see the problem with this stuff, which frankly baffles me, but there you go.

It's not right. I hope the next time Alanna wears nail polish, people compliment the colour if they like it and otherwise hold their poisoned tongues. For the rest of us, all we can do is keep breaking down those barriers, don't police each other's gender, and raise any kids we have or care for without teaching them to police gender either.

And here are the responses:
LB Administrative note: This is lovely and so I really wanted to post it but want to say right now - we will NOT tolerate ANY comments/questions/debate on this thread about trans identity - trans women are women and this group will not allow that to be called into question so this is a warning up front that anybody posting such comments will be banned immediately.
Kendernote: This is probably because of two people who made trans-erasing comments a week or so ago and started a big argument. Anyone can join the group and the administrators are really good but sometimes it happens that none of them are online.

N So sorry to hear your friend had that trouble - the customer clearly has no life, and her boss needs some remedial schooling.

BC Can I say that I LOVE the moderation of this group. Thank you for taking such a strong line on transphobia, homophobia and classism. It makes me feel much safer in this space.

LM Sad to hear this. I've done my boyfriends nails on occasion because he likes them neat and slightly shiny! And he works in retail, told me it helps him sell. And I agree with you on uniform policing being different based on gender. Enrages me.

O That's awful your friend experienced that :( I completely agree with you about the gender policing, it's ridiculous that men can't show care or attention to themselves and engage in things like nail painting etc, because it's seen as for females only, such a load of bull****!! As Natalie said the customer clearly has no life! and as such they have to fill their empty life by trying to get someone into trouble for something which they should be allowed to do no matter what their gender!!

BH It's sad to hear this. I work in an office with a trans woman and a trans man and I've never seen them treated with anything but respect. There's also a guy who works in a different department who wears a skirt and heels along with his shirt and tie, because he finds it comfortable. I feel so privileged to work in such an open and accepting place so it's a shame to hear stories like this.

Kender Thank you for taking a no-nonsense line, Laura. And thank you to everyone for the comments. I'll share them with my friend, she'll love to hear them!

Edit: Update:
LW I've nothing terribly useful to add alas but it's really awful for your friend. :( Posts like this are a great reminder for the cis gendered among us a) of our privilege and b) some of what we can do to undermine and stand against gender policing. Thanks for posting and hugs to your friend. x

Edit: Update 2
É This is a very well written argument. I'm sorry your friend has to endure this horrendous discrimination. Today, my four year old boy asked to have his toe nails painted "like mummy". I happily obliged.

F If wearing nails polish makes her happy, that's all that matters. Happy people make the world a happy place. I'm so sorry to hear such discrimination. Hugs to you both.

S That was really well written, I really appreciate you posting it.

LW Me too É, mine had red nails (to the knuckles) for a while when he did it himself...


And here's the link (https://www.facebook.com/groups/391256930892127/permalink/626898420661309/), if anyone's in The Everyday Sexism Project group on facebook, or wants to be!

That's absolutely fantastic, and I think I may join that group.


Small rant again
Had a discussion again today with my mum (as always now when i bring it to her attention that she adressed me wrong), and there were many questionable things she said but the "best" one was: "You need to go to a psychologist so that you don't mind being called your birthname any more." Because if you're too lazy to correct your own behaviour, just change the other person instead :smallsigh: The essence of transphobia, if you think about it.
Also she does not see the need to apologize or even just correct herself after the adressed me wrong.

Oh, for... *hugs and cheesecake*


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

Oh Rain, I'm so sorry.

Hugs and cheesecake for all who want them!

[Arachu]

*Hugs Rain (and anyone else who wants/needs hugs) close* :c


I'm having... A strange week. Not a bad one, just mildly confusing. @.@

So, for the last couple of days one of my aunt's friends and her three kids have been staying with us. I'm not sure why they are, but I assume they lost their house or something and I don't want to pry.

The kids are way young (I'm not sure what Ivy's age is, but her brothers are 4 and 2), and they get hyper a lot. I've noticed, though, that it doesn't really bother me at all. They can scream and holler and throw pillows in my general vicinity, and the only time I'll stop reading is to either talk to them or watch them (to make sure nobody gets hurt). :smalltongue:

Last night, I even noticed that my headache went away at some point while hanging out with them (I always have at least a minor headache, even after taking medicine). It didn't come back until late at night, and that was just sleep deprivation. o.o

It just makes me think... Maybe I wouldn't be such a bad mom after all? I mean, I'm still not sure whether I even want kids and it'll be years before I find out, but it's nice to think that it's an option. :3


~Bianca

[TaiLiu]

I'm having... A strange week. Not a bad one, just mildly confusing. @.@

So, for the last couple of days one of my aunt's friends and her three kids have been staying with us. I'm not sure why they are, but I assume they lost their house or something and I don't want to pry.

The kids are way young (I'm not sure what Ivy's age is, but her brothers are 4 and 2), and they get hyper a lot. I've noticed, though, that it doesn't really bother me at all. They can scream and holler and throw pillows in my general vicinity, and the only time I'll stop reading is to either talk to them or watch them (to make sure nobody gets hurt). :smalltongue:

Last night, I even noticed that my headache went away at some point while hanging out with them (I always have at least a minor headache, even after taking medicine). It didn't come back until late at night, and that was just sleep deprivation. o.o

It just makes me think... Maybe I wouldn't be such a bad mom after all? I mean, I'm still not sure whether I even want kids and it'll be years before I find out, but it's nice to think that it's an option. :3
Ah! This is good, having no headaches.

Yes, patience and tolerance are two very important traits to have when raising children. I'm certain you would be an excellent mother.

[tassaron]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

[TaiLiu]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:
Hooray! This calls for celebrations.

<-- Also my username was finally changed.
It has, indeed.

[Morcleon]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

Yay! *hug* :smallbiggrin:

Any particular reason for the change? Just curious.

~Setsuna~

[SiuiS]

So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

Of course she is!

But why are you sitting on the train depot? They should have couches inside, right? D:


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lskru2nJ0u1qd7bw2o1_500.gif



Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

Bangerang!

[Eirala]

Thanks all ^_^


Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

I'm so happ for you :smallsmile: Congratulations!

And that reminds to go get my username changed (Tanail feels too male for me since i created it for a male elf character)

~Katharina~

[noparlpf]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

Neat. Congrats.

------------

Huh, there's a trans* character in a game I'm playing.
One of the characters in Danganronpa is either trans MtF or is cis but prefers to present as female. It being a fan translation of a Japanese game, it's not entirely clear, but they seem to have switched pronouns after the reveal (which I saw coming miles away), implying that the writers saw them as male. Japan isn't great about trans stuff in the first place, though, so I'm still not sure. Even so, this is a better portrayal than usual in Japanese media, even if it was just to add an extra twist to one of the murders happening in a changing room.

[Dark Elf Bard]

New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

[TaiLiu]

New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?
Yes, very much so! I like it.

[Coidzor]

*Hugs Rain (and anyone else who wants/needs hugs) close* :c


I'm having... A strange week. Not a bad one, just mildly confusing. @.@

So, for the last couple of days one of my aunt's friends and her three kids have been staying with us. I'm not sure why they are, but I assume they lost their house or something and I don't want to pry.

The kids are way young (I'm not sure what Ivy's age is, but her brothers are 4 and 2), and they get hyper a lot. I've noticed, though, that it doesn't really bother me at all. They can scream and holler and throw pillows in my general vicinity, and the only time I'll stop reading is to either talk to them or watch them (to make sure nobody gets hurt). :smalltongue:

Last night, I even noticed that my headache went away at some point while hanging out with them (I always have at least a minor headache, even after taking medicine). It didn't come back until late at night, and that was just sleep deprivation. o.o

It just makes me think... Maybe I wouldn't be such a bad mom after all? I mean, I'm still not sure whether I even want kids and it'll be years before I find out, but it's nice to think that it's an option. :3


~Bianca

I've never heard of children as a headache cure before. That's incredibly fortuitous. Actually, it almost calls to mind something I heard about being around children for extended periods causing people to release estrogen or not release as much testosterone or something along those lines. I think the particular thing was what it meant for fathers and how their biochemistry actually changed the more they had to do with raising their children.

[Eldest]

New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

It's a... a... :D...:O... D:... I dunno! :smalleek:

:smalltongue:


Hugs and cheesecake for all who want them!

*takes two of both*

[KenderWizard]

*is being hugged* Thanks Kender :smallsmile: and yes, childish is the best way to describe her atm.

I hope it comes good for you, sweetie.


So....currently sitting next to Lena on the train station. She's really cool. =3

Awesome!


Glad to hear it was so well received and that people are so nice. ^_^


Me too! Also, your Eevee picture is cool!


So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


What. ((hugs)) if you want them. ... I really like your avatar, if it helps? Your parents are being just as childish as Tanail's mom.


Kenderwizard: *wanders off to investigate all this then*


Have fun!


That's absolutely fantastic, and I think I may join that group.


You can find me by my being the person who posted that essay! :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

Well, the figure is wearing a dress and has roses in its hair so I'm going to say it's some sort of elf, definitely. :smalltongue:

[Morcleon]

*Hugs Rain (and anyone else who wants/needs hugs) close* :c


I'm having... A strange week. Not a bad one, just mildly confusing. @.@

So, for the last couple of days one of my aunt's friends and her three kids have been staying with us. I'm not sure why they are, but I assume they lost their house or something and I don't want to pry.

The kids are way young (I'm not sure what Ivy's age is, but her brothers are 4 and 2), and they get hyper a lot. I've noticed, though, that it doesn't really bother me at all. They can scream and holler and throw pillows in my general vicinity, and the only time I'll stop reading is to either talk to them or watch them (to make sure nobody gets hurt). :smalltongue:

Last night, I even noticed that my headache went away at some point while hanging out with them (I always have at least a minor headache, even after taking medicine). It didn't come back until late at night, and that was just sleep deprivation. o.o

It just makes me think... Maybe I wouldn't be such a bad mom after all? I mean, I'm still not sure whether I even want kids and it'll be years before I find out, but it's nice to think that it's an option. :3


~Bianca

*wants hug* *takes hug* :3

That's... odd, to say the least. It's nice that your headache's gone. And from what I've seen of you, you will make a pretty nice mother. ^_^

~Setsuna~


New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

It's very nice. The face/figure/hair is quite androgynous, although the roses/pose tip it slightly towards female.:smalltongue:

~Setsuna~

[Lady Serpentine]

Reminds me of Elkandar, so I read it as male. But that's more to do with the instrument and me being a sneaky cheater by knowing your characters and thus associating him with that than anything else, Rain.

~Raven~

[Mina Kobold]

So....

Am having to live with my godparents until either my parents accept my genderfluidity or I "snap out of this ungodly phase."


:frown:

~Rain~

Some people make me wish parenting required a license. That sounds just ridiculously cruel. ;_;

I hope your 'rents turn and realise how terrible they are being. I wish I could help, but I'm out of rainbow pictures. :smallfrown:


I'm having... A strange week. Not a bad one, just mildly confusing. @.@

So, for the last couple of days one of my aunt's friends and her three kids have been staying with us. I'm not sure why they are, but I assume they lost their house or something and I don't want to pry.

The kids are way young (I'm not sure what Ivy's age is, but her brothers are 4 and 2), and they get hyper a lot. I've noticed, though, that it doesn't really bother me at all. They can scream and holler and throw pillows in my general vicinity, and the only time I'll stop reading is to either talk to them or watch them (to make sure nobody gets hurt). :smalltongue:

Last night, I even noticed that my headache went away at some point while hanging out with them (I always have at least a minor headache, even after taking medicine). It didn't come back until late at night, and that was just sleep deprivation. o.o

It just makes me think... Maybe I wouldn't be such a bad mom after all? I mean, I'm still not sure whether I even want kids and it'll be years before I find out, but it's nice to think that it's an option. :3


~Bianca

I think you'd make a great mum, and it's wonderful that you are enjoying your new teeny roommates. ^_^

Hope continued exposure will make your headache go even more away. :smallsmile:


Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

Congrats! ^_^

Yay! :3


New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

I think it looks pretty androgynous. And flowery, which is good. :3


-----------

To once again steal the idea of dropping links, OrangePopFox (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/) on DeviantArt draws some absolutely adorable comics. Not all of them involve GRSM peeps, but the series beginning with Pancakes (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/39478844) continuing in Dance With Me (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/32668576) and now being at Welcome to the Family (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/44828071), is about a lesbian couple and includes a gay male couple* and a non-binary individual (Spot, referred to as ze and hir in the description) in the latest story. I found them really heart-warming and fun, so I thought I'd share them. :smallsmile:

*Said couple are also the uncles and caretakers of Nina the witch in other stories by OrangePopFox, which are also adorbs, but not particularly related to the thread other than them.

[Skeppio]

New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?

Yep! I like it. :smallsmile:

Which reminds me, I should make myself a new version of this avatar...I was gonna, but got side-tracked.

[Socratov]

spoilered for all sorts of things, read on own risk (reaction to metditto)


It doesn't matter if you can control it or not. It's there, the least you can do is acknowledge that and understand what that means (including that one might need to not be in a place to make it safe for other people).
And it's not just a minor difference in chance of something happening. The general population has somewhere between a 5% and 10% suicidal ideation rate. Transgender populations? 65% ideation, 40% attempted. Privilege means something significant, and suggesting that it doesn't is the definition of privilege.
well, ofttimes people use this argument as justification to use bigotry themselves (must be *this* [pick LGBT catefory] to chip in), or reject people wanting to help (You are privileged in what you are, you can't change it except by becoming LGBT and even then you will probably never be one of us no matter how you want to help us, so scram!), you may or may bot believe me, but the last remark has been said to me ad verbatim while I was just (trying) to be nice (obviously not here since inclusion is a major thing here). So yeah, I'm worried aobut such behaviour since it really does drive away help and influence.

Tangentally, judging by priviledge is as much face value as color of skin. By judging people literally on where they were born, what skin color they have and what sexual orientation, gender and personal philosophy is racism in whatever direction it is aimed. It is in fact as much bigotry as the reverse. the fact that someone has a certain set of attributes in terms of birth and all that doesn't automatically mean you have it all easy. if that were true no straight cis caucasian male would attempt (or even succeed) at suicide. but lo and behold it's there. to reiterate, judging by priviledge is as much prejudice as judging by sexual orientation, skin color of what have you.

I may be the odd one in this bad, bad world, but I judge peopel on how they behave towards me and others on a personal basis, though if a trend shows itself in my experiences I won't hesitate to note it for future encounters.

It's not driving away people, it's asking them to respect a safe space. And not respecting that is why there needs to be a safe place in the first place. The rest of society caters to cisnormative/heteronormative people. Straight and cis allies that understand that won't stop helping the cause because of this, and if they do, they weren't really allies to begin with. asking is something else then dismissing on grounds of privilege, something you can't help as much as you can't help being LGBT. Depending on the asking/dismissing people stay to help or not. I have spoken people who stopped helping becuase of these sentiments of being dismissed in a "yeah nice of you wanting to help, but you are straight, cis and therefore this is not your place. So why don't you go screw yourself? kthnx, bye!". I completely understand people stopping caring at that point. if an actual question was used along the lines of "hey, cool of you wantign to help but I don't see hwo you can help with this issue specifically. I kind of need to figure it out for myself and need a bit of space. bu tif I need help you are the first I'll call." the space will be freely given and future help not witheld. It's all a matter of communication and intent.



This is literally the opposite of the problem. I think it's the old white cis guys that don't pass laws respecting the identities of thousands of peoples that are the problem, and the people electing them. Namely, the bigots.
(emphasis mine). if it is anything it bigotry due to ignorance and an unwillingness to emphasize with anoher person. and ofcourse it is freaking hard to stay nice all the time around people who have no qualms about trashing your very identity for something you can't really help being.



Congrats Dark elf Bard! nice avvy. looks handsome/gorgeous (circle which you think applies).

Arachu: the best medicine for headaches is dopamine (found in sex and funny children and joyous situations amongst others). Oh, and yeah, if children (subconciously) make you happy you probably will be and should be a great mom :smallamused:

Oh, and hugs for everyone (muscleache disappeared a bit leaving behind more strength).

so, now going to pack my stuff (once again) so I can move out (once again, hrm, again).

[Kindablue]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.
Congratulations!

if it is anything it is bigotry due to ignorance and an unwillingness to emphasize with anoher person.
There are other kinds of bigotry?

[Dark Elf Bard]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

[Moonwolf727]

Doctor told me today that I should expect to start HRT in 63 days (September 20). :smallredface:

<-- Also my username was finally changed.

Good luck, it'll be an interesting experience. Probably. Ok, I don't actually know but I hope it goes smoothly regardless! :smallwink:

Good for you, it took long enough.


*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

That's terrible! I hope you didn't leave anything too important back there before you left.... *offers hugs*

The support is because you both deserve and need it right now, times are tough but they'll get better. I hope. Best of luck? (Is wishing you luck even appropriate right now, I really don't know.)

---------------------------------------
On a side note; I've finnally broken up from school. Which means I can stop lurking at last. Not that I'll make an impact anyway but you know...

[KenderWizard]

@Rain
That's _awful_. ((hugs)) if you want them. Do you have people to support you?

@Socratov

I completely agree with you that LGBT+ groups and other marginalised groups should accept privileged allies, and only exclude individuals who upset other people or refuse to listen. You're right, people should be allowed help, and it's unfair and upsetting to be turned away because of the behaviour of other people who happen to share some characteristics with you.

However, I fundamentally disagree that calling someone out on their privilege, even rudely, is as bad as being racist/homophobic/sexist. Assuming someone has, say, white privilege is not actually an assumption. If you're white, you have white privilege. It's not the same as racism. The reverse isn't normal racism, it's assuming someone who isn't white has experienced some kind of discrimination. The key is then to acknowledge that the white privilege doesn't make the white person inherently better off in all ways than any non-white person ever, or incapable of understanding or being an ally. It just means that they benefit from a system that prefers them over an otherwise identical non-white person. That's it.

It often comes up; "reverse racism", "sexism against men", even "heterophobia". The important thing to remember is; yes, sometimes the unfair system hurts vulnerable members of the privileged group (ie patriarchy hurts men too!), and yes, some individuals are prejudiced against privileged groups, but when an LGBT+ person is biased against a straight cis person, they're just that person, maybe that group. When a straight cis person is biased against LGBT+, they have behind them the weight of a big, horrible, unfair, hierarchical system that has historically done terrible things to LGBT+ people and continues to do as much as it can.

Now, as I said, that doesn't mean we or any other privileged group are right to just exclude all "outside" help, nor does it allow us to be rude or hurtful to people who are trying to help us. But excluding the privileged group is just not the same as excluding the non-privileged one, and it won't be the same until we have proper equality.

[Lady Serpentine]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

You're not the one who ought to feel like that, hon. They're the ones who should; you did nothing at all wrong, nor is there anything bad about who you are, and they're just being bigoted idiots. Okay? *hugs tightly*

(And I'm sure you know this already, but my inbox is always as open as I can make it to you.)

[TaiLiu]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...
That... That is most horrible! My condolences once more.

@Socratov
Assuming someone has, say, white privilege is not actually an assumption. If you're white, you have white privilege.
Quick question: does this racial privilege change depending on location? If I were in China, would I have "Chinese privilege?"

[Socratov]

cnor, as as matter fact *******s do exist :smallsigh:

kender: true. however, hating because of the qualities associated with dicrimination is in my eyes, whichever way it goes, despicable.

tailiu: I dont know about the chinese, but I heard that in japan discrimination between japanese and non-japanese is a serious problem.

spoilered for privilege trigger.

for the rest hugs if you want them , pat on the back if you want those...

btw, I think I have a lot of stuff...

[Lady Serpentine]

cnor, as as matter fact *******s do exist :smallsigh:

...Wait, when did I get involved in this again? The only posts I've made are saying I read Rain's new avvie as male due to knowing her characters, and that she shouldn't be the one feeling like that. :smallconfused:

[Kindablue]

kender: true. however, hating because of the qualities associated with dicrimination is in my eyes, whichever way it goes, despicable.
Did anyone actually say that it was alright to hate privileged people?

[Morcleon]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

*hugs* If they're going to be like that, why go back at all? Unless they spontaneously accept you after you turn 18, just stay away and enjoy your own life.

And if you ever need to talk about anything, you can feel free to PM me. :smallsmile:

~Setsuna~

[Kindablue]

...Wait, when did I get involved in this again? The only posts I've made are saying I read Rain's new avvie as male due to knowing her characters, and that she shouldn't be the one feeling like that. :smallconfused:

He meant me, I thought. Though I would call a supremely ignorant person who willfully refuses to empathize with his fellow man an *******, myself.

[Lentrax]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

You have somewhere to go yes?

I'm pretty sure you've already said you did, but I want to make sure.

[Coidzor]

He meant me, I thought. Though I would call a supremely ignorant person who willfully refuses to empathize with his fellow man an *******, myself.

I didn't know "monster" was a censored word. :smallamused:


*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

That is utterly ridiculous and just plain bizarre. I'm sorry.

No, you're a people, not a pile.

[Lady Serpentine]

You have somewhere to go yes?

I'm pretty sure you've already said you did, but I want to make sure.

Rain's currently staying with her godparents, yes, from what she's said to me.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Raven has it right. Thanks again for letting me talk with you... :smallsmile:

[Lady Serpentine]

You're welcome. Happy to any time you like; you're a nice person, and fun to talk with. :smallsmile:

[Socratov]

...Wait, when did I get involved in this again? The only posts I've made are saying I read Rain's new avvie as male due to knowing her characters, and that she shouldn't be the one feeling like that. :smallconfused:


He meant me, I thought. Though I would call a supremely ignorant person who willfully refuses to empathize with his fellow man an *******, myself.

sorry, yeah, mixup in names. and such a person is quitethe expletive.

on the other point, colour me stupid, but a lot of the priviledge arguments on the net stike me as "you're priviledged, so it's okay to not be kind to you like a person but to hate you for the priviledge you have. because, you know, you are priviledged." though on tne other hand it can become fascinating when people with different kinds of priviledge start some sort of pissing contest about being the least privileged. it's horrifying and funny at the same time... :smalleek:

[KenderWizard]

Really glad you're safe, Rain!




Quick question: does this racial privilege change depending on location? If I were in China, would I have "Chinese privilege?"

Racial privilege:
Yes, absolutely. As Socratov said, Japanese society is very biased towards born-Japanese people. All over the world, the dominant racial group gets the local privilege. There's also a global hierarchy; different races are greeted in different ways visiting different countries. A white American visiting Thailand is more likely to be considered a "wealthy Western foreigner" than a black American, even if they're otherwise identical. Even in places where the dominant majority is still white, racial privilege can be different; for example in Ireland, a black person is much more likely to be assumed to be a visitor or immigrant than in the States, because Ireland has been very racially homogenous until recently (and still is much more homogenous than the UK or the US).




kender: true. however, hating because of the qualities associated with dicrimination is in my eyes, whichever way it goes, despicable.



Privilege generally:

You're right, it's never right to judge someone based on how they look. But it's still less damaging if it's towards the privileged group, and therefore I consider it less bad. Not good, just less bad.

And absolutely, there are people who are total jerks about it in internet arguments, and anyone who plays Oppression Olympics is being childish and short-sighted ("_You_ may be a black, queer woman, so you think you're soooo disadvantaged, you can't possibly imagine how hard it is for me to be a poor, disabled man." No. Go home and think about what you've done.) We must all hang together for we will surely hang separately! But I try to mostly ignore those people, like I try to ignore people who say "Just to play devil's advocate for a moment..." or people who say "How can anyone care about this when there are children starving in Africa?". Some people are stupid and/or mean and/or dismissive and that is true of every group.

[Lentrax]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...


Rain's currently staying with her godparents, yes, from what she's said to me.


Raven has it right. Thanks again for letting me talk with you... :smallsmile:

Okay. Good. I'm glad you have somewhere to go.

If you need anything, don't hesitate. My box always has some room in it, and I can always give you my email address too.

[Delusion]

"Every time you play the Oppression Olympics, some North Korean plotical prisoner wins." Or something.

[Kindablue]

I didn't know "monster" was a censored word. :smallamused:

Yes. They are such an monster.

[Eirala]

Oh, the little things in life. As i bought a train ticket in the morning (i was at a brony meetup the whole day, which was nice too ^.^) there were two children talking to each other next to me. I didnt understand what they said, but after a while one of them talked more loudly than before: "That's a woman." And i know exactly who they were talking about :smallsmile: Really made my day

[Morcleon]

Oh, the little things in life. As i bought a train ticket in the morning (i was at a brony meetup the whole day, which was nice too ^.^) there were two children talking to each other next to me. I didnt understand what they said, but after a while one of them talked more loudly than before: "That's a woman." And i know exactly who they were talking about :smallsmile: Really made my day

That's awesome! If a little kid can tell that you're a girl, I'm sure you're looking fine. :smallbiggrin:

~Setsuna~

[Jormengand]

Oh, the little things in life. As i bought a train ticket in the morning (i was at a brony meetup the whole day, which was nice too ^.^) there were two children talking to each other next to me. I didnt understand what they said, but after a while one of them talked more loudly than before: "That's a woman." And i know exactly who they were talking about :smallsmile: Really made my day

Ever the pessimist (or perhaps the realist, unfortunately), I wonder what the other child might have said to provoke such an outburst, but...

[Sabeki]

Hopefully something positive. But they're kids, so really,, their logic never makes sense.

[Jormengand]

Hopefully something positive. But they're kids, so really,, their logic never makes sense.

I imagine the child proclaiming that she was a woman was in fact correcting the other's reference to a man, but there we go. We can only hope otherwise.

[Eldest]

*is not welcome in parent's home until I turn 18*

...

*feels like a pile of *****

thanks for the support, everyone...

That is bull**** and your parents should feel like like a pile of crap for doing that.


Raven has it right. Thanks again for letting me talk with you... :smallsmile:

If you want to talk, I am happy to talk. I like talking.

[SiuiS]

Yes. They are such an monster.

Hahahahahaha!

[Rosstin]

I present a dilemma to LGBTAitP:
Can straight people be queer?

Some unnecessary background:
As this relates to me personally: I am someone who feels at home in the gay community, grew up in California, am passionate about LGBT issues, to the extent that I feel militant about issues like LGBT representations in gaming and attend some LGBT conventions. At one point I considered starting a game development team whose common thread would be that all their games promoted diversity in some way.

I'd like to consider myself part of the LGBT community, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I don't have sex with men, and I don't crossdress.

I can't really claim to be gay or trans, and yet I don't want to consider myself to be an outsider to the LGBT world.

I guess this worries me because sometimes I'm afraid I'll have to give a talk at a convention or something, and people will say I'm a phony.

That's kind of a lot of whining for a small thing, which is tiny compared to the everyday struggles of people who have to pass, or deal with discrimination, but there it is.

[Absol197]

...


...


So, as I feared, stupid bureaucratic things happened, and my letter was delayed again. But this time, I'm out of state for the next week, so I have to wait until the Friday after next for my next chance. So this means that it'll have been...a minimum of six weeks since the initial date that I was expecting to get my letter before the next opportunity. A month and a half of my life I can't get back...

Also, the reason I'm out of state is because I'm going to Ohio to visit my dad. I'm planning on coming out to him and my step-mom. I think they'll be fine, but I'm incredibly nervous. If for some reason they aren't, then what will I do for the remainder of that week? If they kick me out, then where will I stay? How will I get back to the airport for my flight home? I was planning on printing some things out for my folks to read, so that they have some resources. I was going to print Natalie Reed's 13 Myths, some info from TransWhat?, the official definition from the APA (I remember I had a link to that before and I printed it off for my best friend, but I can't find it anymore), and The Seasick Squid, as a means of demonstrating what I was feeling like throughout my life. Is there anything else that someone might recommend, either to add to or replace from my list?


~Phoenix~

[SiuiS]

I present a dilemma to LGBTAitP:
Can straight people be queer?

Some unnecessary background:
As this relates to me personally: I am someone who feels at home in the gay community, grew up in California, am passionate about LGBT issues, to the extent that I feel militant about issues like LGBT representations in gaming and attend some LGBT conventions. At one point I considered starting a game development team whose common thread would be that all their games promoted diversity in some way.

I'd like to consider myself part of the LGBT community, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I don't have sex with men, and I don't crossdress.

I can't really claim to be gay or trans, and yet I don't want to consider myself to be an outsider to the LGBT world.

I guess this worries me because sometimes I'm afraid I'll have to give a talk at a convention or something, and people will say I'm a phony.

That's kind of a lot of whining for a small thing, which is tiny compared to the everyday struggles of people who have to pass, or deal with discrimination, but there it is.

It depends. Can you be a part of the black community if you're white? I would say that no, you are not queer but also no, it does not matter. You don't need to be "one of the gays" to matter, and it's actually better that you're not; gay men take gay men seriously, naturally, but a straight guy taking gay men seriously is something bigots have a harder time ignoring. The very fact of you not being gay is good. It breaks down artificial barriers.

Also, transsexuality has nothing to do with crossdressing.

This o course ignores my usual use of the word queer to denote oddity, strangeness, and a fey sense about a thing. You can totally be that.

[Eldest]

I present a dilemma to LGBTAitP:
Can straight people be queer?

Some unnecessary background:
As this relates to me personally: I am someone who feels at home in the gay community, grew up in California, am passionate about LGBT issues, to the extent that I feel militant about issues like LGBT representations in gaming and attend some LGBT conventions. At one point I considered starting a game development team whose common thread would be that all their games promoted diversity in some way.

I'd like to consider myself part of the LGBT community, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I don't have sex with men, and I don't crossdress.

I can't really claim to be gay or trans, and yet I don't want to consider myself to be an outsider to the LGBT world.

I guess this worries me because sometimes I'm afraid I'll have to give a talk at a convention or something, and people will say I'm a phony.

That's kind of a lot of whining for a small thing, which is tiny compared to the everyday struggles of people who have to pass, or deal with discrimination, but there it is.

Nope, you're not queer, you're an Ally. Hiya!


Also, transsexuality has nothing to do with crossdressing.

Also, very much this. Or at least the two look similar but are quite different.

[KenderWizard]

I present a dilemma to LGBTAitP:
Can straight people be queer?

Some unnecessary background:
As this relates to me personally: I am someone who feels at home in the gay community, grew up in California, am passionate about LGBT issues, to the extent that I feel militant about issues like LGBT representations in gaming and attend some LGBT conventions. At one point I considered starting a game development team whose common thread would be that all their games promoted diversity in some way.

I'd like to consider myself part of the LGBT community, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I don't have sex with men, and I don't crossdress.

I can't really claim to be gay or trans, and yet I don't want to consider myself to be an outsider to the LGBT world.

I guess this worries me because sometimes I'm afraid I'll have to give a talk at a convention or something, and people will say I'm a phony.

That's kind of a lot of whining for a small thing, which is tiny compared to the everyday struggles of people who have to pass, or deal with discrimination, but there it is.

Doesn't seem like you're queer. Unless you don't have sex with men but would be open to doing so? I don't have sex with women (or other men), cause I'm in a long-term relationship, but since I would under other circumstances, I'm still bi. You might be heteroflexible; basically straight but not closed off to the idea that you might find a member of the same sex who does it for you. Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're an awesome ally, and provided you keep in mind that you've got straight privilege, you'll be fine.

Btw, as mentioned, crossdressing and being transgender are very different. Crossdressing is a man dressing in women's clothes for fun or performance or pleasure. Transgenderism is a woman born with a man's body who might dress in women's clothes, go on hormone therapy, have surgery, legally change their gender and/or name, or other things, in order to live as a woman. (These are examples, both can involve men or women and neither are monolithic groups.)


Also, Phee, that sucks. :smallfrown: I really hope your father and stepmother take it well, I think you have a good plan. If you're really worried, set aside a little money if you can, for your peace of mind, so you could get a taxi if you really need to. I don't know where you could go; here, I'd say go to the police because they'll know what you're entitled to. You could just tell them you had a fight, if you don't want to tell the police officer you're trans. But it would be a VERY extreme reaction for them to kick you out to nothing, I'd say even if they take it badly they'd still let you stay and get you to the airport. I know it always helps me to have a worst-case-scenario plan, so that's why I'm talking about money and police officers, but you even say it's unlikely. ((hugs)) You'll be fine, sweetie.

[Lentrax]

I present a dilemma to LGBTAitP:
Can straight people be queer?

Some unnecessary background:
As this relates to me personally: I am someone who feels at home in the gay community, grew up in California, am passionate about LGBT issues, to the extent that I feel militant about issues like LGBT representations in gaming and attend some LGBT conventions. At one point I considered starting a game development team whose common thread would be that all their games promoted diversity in some way.

I'd like to consider myself part of the LGBT community, but when it gets down to brass tacks, I don't have sex with men, and I don't crossdress.

I can't really claim to be gay or trans, and yet I don't want to consider myself to be an outsider to the LGBT world.

I guess this worries me because sometimes I'm afraid I'll have to give a talk at a convention or something, and people will say I'm a phony.

That's kind of a lot of whining for a small thing, which is tiny compared to the everyday struggles of people who have to pass, or deal with discrimination, but there it is.

Going to agree with what's already been said about this. You may not be queer, but you are an incredible ally to all of us who are in other places on the spectrum.


...


...


So, as I feared, stupid bureaucratic things happened, and my letter was delayed again. But this time, I'm out of state for the next week, so I have to wait until the Friday after next for my next chance. So this means that it'll have been...a minimum of six weeks since the initial date that I was expecting to get my letter before the next opportunity. A month and a half of my life I can't get back...

Also, the reason I'm out of state is because I'm going to Ohio to visit my dad. I'm planning on coming out to him and my step-mom. I think they'll be fine, but I'm incredibly nervous. If for some reason they aren't, then what will I do for the remainder of that week? If they kick me out, then where will I stay? How will I get back to the airport for my flight home? I was planning on printing some things out for my folks to read, so that they have some resources. I was going to print Natalie Reed's 13 Myths, some info from TransWhat?, the official definition from the APA (I remember I had a link to that before and I printed it off for my best friend, but I can't find it anymore), and The Seasick Squid, as a means of demonstrating what I was feeling like throughout my life. Is there anything else that someone might recommend, either to add to or replace from my list?


~Phoenix~

Oh Phee. Honey, I am going to come out there, find out who is delaying your progress, punch them in the throat, and move your letter along...

I won't actually punch anyone. I don't condone violence, but this is getting really ridiculous.

[Partysan]

Dark Elf Bard, I'm more than sorry. Some people do not understand that love is unconditional, and I'd hesitate to even call them parents. That said, sometimes they understand what they had in their kids and come back to their senses, so don't lose hope yet as it wasn't that long ago. I hope your Godparents are treating you well. We'll always be here for you, although I doubt I can do much for you from Germany except listen.


The Landshut Wedding, I'm sure you've heard of it. :smallsmile:
Indeed I have, but it's a tad far. I'm sure though that not just I would appreciate pictures (of the festival in general and of you in Gewandung in particular).

[Kindablue]

It depends. Can you be a part of the black community if you're white? I would say that no, you are not queer but also no, it does not matter. You don't need to be "one of the gays" to matter, and it's actually better that you're not; gay men take gay men seriously, naturally, but a straight guy taking gay men seriously is something bigots have a harder time ignoring. The very fact of you not being gay is good. It breaks down artificial barriers.

I agree with the wizard lady.

[Rosstin]

Thanks for the advice. ^_^

[Zorg]

Hello thread, it has been some time since I've posted much but here's a status update, spoilered for length, TWs (depression, v. mild transphobia) etc:

Things have been pretty bleak these last few months, the HRT seemed to be really amping up my depression and mood swings (I stopped taking the progesterone after a week as it was making me suicidal, but given I got that bad a few weeks ago anyway who knows? Not wanting to restart it though). However it has mostly settled down now and I'm starting to notice more physical changes - I've put on about 5kgs and can see my face is looking a little different amongst others. Electrolysis is now three weeks apart and I can go five-six days without shaving (yay!).

Been getting lots of cravings lately too - like the other night I needed to eat salami, and another was for green beans (also citrus a lot).
Moodiness and and the crying has settled so it is more that my reactions are deeper than just randomly swinging about for no reason. Not sure if it's the meds or not but I've also been having a lot of very vidid nightmares the last few weeks, so not sleeping much or well.

Work has been good, the HR team and my boss are still very supportive, though as mentioned I had a mild incident at work, where I am not out to most people. Basically I was standing near the registers (I manage at a supermarket) and another staffer came up to me indicating the lines of customers behind me.
"Look at him, look at him."
I turned looking for someone trying to shoplift or otherwise acting suspect but saw nothing. This repeated a couple of times until I had to say "I have no idea who you are talking about" to which they replied "that guy's dressed up as a woman" and some other stuff I forget. Was more in a "that's so weird/strange" manner than "eww, gross", but still :/
Now, I obviously didn't look around again, but they said the register, so the person was about two metres away from us... :smallsigh: I just walked away and later related it to my boss, who told me if it happened again to tell him, as it rattled me quite badly. I sort of know that's what people say when I go out (like today I was at the movies and while waiting and talking I could see two ladies staring at me and talking) but it's unnerving to hear it said to you.

But I'll be transitioning at work around September to October, so that is both exciting and terrifying at once. Also looking at changing my name and gender on my documents in the next month or so.

Family is going ok, my Mum's being very supportive and I'm now out to her mum, who we were both a bit worried about, but she's fine. My Dad's being a bit odd, not wanting to talk about it at all. He'll listen, but gives no real reaction, which is a bit disheartening. Still got to talk to my daughter though... :smalleek:

So, yeah, been trying to make a more positive change in my life this last week - wrote a friend who has been very supportive of me a thank you letter since I haven't had a chance to properly catch up with her in the last while for example - being depressed sucks so I'm attempting to fight it off as best I can. Going to try to be more active here as well :smallsmile:

Not the best photo, was in a rush so quick makeup job, but this is me earlier tonight:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/10_zps8ca8406a.jpg

Went out with friends and saw Pacific Rim (very good) and had mexican afterwards. Was very good night as on top of seeing friends the waitress was super nice and complimented my ring and boots so that was a nice little boost :smalltongue:




@ Phee - sorry to hear thing are delayed again, the waiting can be terrible I know. At least when you're old and decrepit like me you'll hardly be able to remember how long it took :smalltongue:
The only advice I can think of to add to your preparation is be prepared for lots of "what about [relative x]?" and "what about your job?" sort of questions. Also be prepared for unexpected revelations in return, as that is most often what I've faced with my parentals. Also only bring out the lists and things if your explaination isn't going well - that way you can say "I found this that sums up how I feel" rather than "I feel like this" so to avoid any claims of it influencing you.
But given how thoughtful, wise and well spoken you are here I'm sure that you'll have little trouble :smallsmile:


@ Aster Azul - well if you consider that you can be straight and trans*, or straight and asexual but romantic (or aromantic but still sexually active), demisexual or questioning - yes.
But that's just pointless semantics (this is GitP after all :smallamused: ) so with what you meant... maybe? I'm not huge on including allies in the queer community (or whatever community), but I'm glad to see allies to the community, who I welcome in (if that makes any sense). I'm not against allies and all, but being an ally to a group doesn't make you part of it even if you're the best ally in the world.
As an example I've always been a queer ally my whole life, but until I came out to myself (or unsuppressed that I'd come out to myself) I couldn't add my voice in the same way because while I could say "I think this discrimination is wrong" I couldn't say "this is how discrimination affects me, and it is wrong".

[Lady Serpentine]

I hope your Godparents are treating you well.


From what Rain's said, they are, yes. She mentioned they're far more supportive than her parents have been, at least.

[Jormengand]

She mentioned they're far more supportive than her parents have been, at least.

A frog somewhere in Scotland is more supportive than her parents.

Sorry, I need to get out all my Devil's Advocacy. Carry on.

~Antony~

[Lady Serpentine]

A frog somewhere in Scotland is more supportive than her parents.

Sorry, I need to get out all my Devil's Advocacy. Carry on.

~Antony~

Well, true. The exact wording did include theior being supportive in their own right, though.

[Karen Lynn]

* hugs thread *

TW dysphoria... I think...

So, lately I've been feeling all over the place. I'm finally picking up from the depressive slump I've been in, but now I feel weird. Like, masculine and manly, and being called Karen seems off and foreign to me... Advice? It's kind of freaking me out, feeling emotionally hollow on top of this.

[Eirala]

* hugs thread *

TW dysphoria... I think...

So, lately I've been feeling all over the place. I'm finally picking up from the depressive slump I've been in, but now I feel weird. Like, masculine and manly, and being called Karen seems off and foreign to me... Advice? It's kind of freaking me out, feeling emotionally hollow on top of this.


*hugs tightly*

Oh yes, i know that feeling. As a matter of fact, today i also feel more manly and i don't care as much for my female name as usually. But it's nothing to fear, i already had several genderfluid phases where i went from feeling female to male and back or even to bi- and agendered one time. That was pretty confusing at first.

For me they last somewhere between 1 and 5 days, so my advice would be wait a few days and don't think too much about it. I for one started to question myself when i first felt like that, am i really trans, and so on. But i'd guess in your case it's also just a phase. Feeling emotionally hollow sounds very familiar, too. That even kinda helps me not thinking about it too much because my gender somehow doesn't feel as important as usually.

[Astrella]

Hi, everyone! Just popping by to quickly say hi from the meet up, it's been really fun and I've been presenting for the entire weekend and it's just been great in general. Will reply in more detail when I get back. :smallsmile:

[Lentrax]

*snip*

Heya Zorg. Been a while. Sorry to hear you are getting really down. Really down. Anything I can do to help? I have a box open if you need to talk.

[Zorg]

Hi Lentrax :smallsmile: ah, I don't think so - at the moment I'm doing ok, but your offer is most appreciated and I shall keep that in mind, thank you :smallsmile:

[TaiLiu]

So, as I feared, stupid bureaucratic things happened, and my letter was delayed again. But this time, I'm out of state for the next week, so I have to wait until the Friday after next for my next chance. So this means that it'll have been...a minimum of six weeks since the initial date that I was expecting to get my letter before the next opportunity. A month and a half of my life I can't get back...
Oh, no. Have you complained about this to them?

Also, the reason I'm out of state is because I'm going to Ohio to visit my dad. I'm planning on coming out to him and my step-mom. I think they'll be fine, but I'm incredibly nervous. If for some reason they aren't, then what will I do for the remainder of that week? If they kick me out, then where will I stay? How will I get back to the airport for my flight home? I was planning on printing some things out for my folks to read, so that they have some resources. I was going to print Natalie Reed's 13 Myths, some info from TransWhat?, the official definition from the APA (I remember I had a link to that before and I printed it off for my best friend, but I can't find it anymore), and The Seasick Squid, as a means of demonstrating what I was feeling like throughout my life. Is there anything else that someone might recommend, either to add to or replace from my list?
Hm. Well, if you're collecting myths about trans people, I suggest adding Reed's Reasons Why She Isn't Scientifically Male. (http://skepchick.org/2011/12/bilaterally-gynandromorphic-chickens-and-why-im-not-scientifically-male/)

Family is going ok, my Mum's being very supportive and I'm now out to her mum, who we were both a bit worried about, but she's fine. My Dad's being a bit odd, not wanting to talk about it at all. He'll listen, but gives no real reaction, which is a bit disheartening. Still got to talk to my daughter though... :smalleek:
Ah. I hope your daughter is accepting!

Not the best photo, was in a rush so quick makeup job, but this is me earlier tonight:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/10_zps8ca8406a.jpg
Ah! You look good.

* hugs thread *

TW dysphoria... I think...

So, lately I've been feeling all over the place. I'm finally picking up from the depressive slump I've been in, but now I feel weird. Like, masculine and manly, and being called Karen seems off and foreign to me... Advice? It's kind of freaking me out, feeling emotionally hollow on top of this.

Hm. I'm going to second Tanail's thoughts about this.

[Karen Lynn]

*hugs tightly*

Oh yes, i know that feeling. As a matter of fact, today i also feel more manly and i don't care as much for my female name as usually. But it's nothing to fear, i already had several genderfluid phases where i went from feeling female to male and back or even to bi- and agendered one time. That was pretty confusing at first.

For me they last somewhere between 1 and 5 days, so my advice would be wait a few days and don't think too much about it. I for one started to question myself when i first felt like that, am i really trans, and so on. But i'd guess in your case it's also just a phase. Feeling emotionally hollow sounds very familiar, too. That even kinda helps me not thinking about it too much because my gender somehow doesn't feel as important as usually.


Hm. I'm going to second Tanail's thoughts about this.

I'm going to do the only thing that makes sense. I just bought makeup and am going to the LGBT club tonight. Let's hope I don't look hideous.

[Eirala]

I'm going to do the only thing that makes sense. I just bought makeup and am going to the LGBT club tonight. Let's hope I don't look hideous.

If that makes sense for you, then go for it and have fun :smallsmile:
I'm going to bed now to get at least 5h of sleep.

[Lauren]

Random observation based on people's pics: trans women have the prettiest smiles. IDK if this is just because you (in general) are better at smiling for the camera than I am, or what, and also it sounds weird now it's outside my head, so I'm just going to post it and then run away.

[TaiLiu]

I'm going to do the only thing that makes sense. I just bought makeup and am going to the LGBT club tonight. Let's hope I don't look hideous.
Bah. You can never look hideous!

On an alternate note, have fun!

[Eldest]

Random thought, has anybody heard from Misty recently?

[TaiLiu]

Random thought, has anybody heard from Misty recently?
Unfortunately not. I had wondered that too, and came to the conclusion that she is suffering from depression and is unable to post.

[Lentrax]

Random observation based on people's pics: trans women have the prettiest smiles. IDK if this is just because you (in general) are better at smiling for the camera than I am, or what, and also it sounds weird now it's outside my head, so I'm just going to post it and then run away.

Theory about this observation: Perhaps they have prettier smiles, because they aren't feeling like they are forcing them? I mean, they are showing themselves off and showing everyone how happy they are that they can do what feels so right?

Or maybe they are just better at smiling than you?

IDK, all my smiles seems really forced, maniacal, or just outright creepy so I am going to go back to my corner to run my games... And plot world domination.

[Jormengand]

Urgh. Not feeling at all good. Couldn't even eat until my hunger overtook my conviction that I was wasting the food (on the basis that it could have been eaten by someone who was actually going to do something useful for the world). I still can't help thinking that everyone would be happier if I were gone. I mean, what have I brought to the table except arguments and anger?

I was going to say more, but I don't even have the energy to do that.

[Lentrax]

A lot of folks here wouldn't be happy if you werent around. Need to talk?

Shoot me a PM.

[Jormengand]

A lot of folks here wouldn't be happy if you werent around. Need to talk?

Shoot me a PM.

Yeah, I'm sure they would all be crying. Tears of joy.

I'd rather not waste your time, and I have no idea why I'm even bothering to post this. Meh.

[Lentrax]

Seriously. You will not be wasting my time.

I want to help. Even it's just to listen to rant and vent and scream and cry.

I would hate thinking that there would have been something I could do if you hurt yourself.

Please.

[Jormengand]

Seriously. You will not be wasting my time.

I want to help. Even it's just to listen to rant and vent and scream and cry.

I would hate thinking that there would have been something I could do if you hurt yourself.

Please.

Jeez, and what did I ever do to help you, huh?

And that's just great. I'm hurting enough people while remaining firmly alive, now I'd be hurting you if I stopped? Oh man.

[Lentrax]

People get hurt all the time. The only thing that would hurt more than you leaving, would be you leaving without letting me try to help.

[Jormengand]

People get hurt all the time. The only thing that would hurt more than you leaving, would be you leaving without letting me try to help.

Well, go on then.

[Lentrax]

Ic. So that's it then?

[Jormengand]

Ic. So that's it then?

Apparently.

[Irish Musician]

Hello thread! Hope everyone is doing well, *hugz* for those that aren't, if they would like them.


Hi Lentrax :smallsmile: ah, I don't think so - at the moment I'm doing ok, but your offer is most appreciated and I shall keep that in mind, thank you :smallsmile:
I am glad to see you around again, Zorg, and hope things calm down for you soon. And I am sure everything will work out in the end. In the meantime, I am sending you good vibes!! Also, I have to agree with the waitress and compliment those boots :smallsmile:

I couldn't add my voice in the same way because while I could say "I think this discrimination is wrong" I couldn't say "this is how discrimination affects me, and it is wrong".
I have to disagree with you there, slightly. I agree I, as an ally, cannot fully know what the LGBTA community goes through. But, it does affect me personally. I find is utterly insulting, for various reasons, when discrimination comes on to those that are LGBTA. Obviously, it isn't happening to me directly, but I have been discriminated against in a very personal way before, so any discrimination to ANY person just because they are different affects me, and downright pisses me off. That is why I am an ally, because no one should have to go through that.....nobody.


Apparently.
My PM box is always open as well for ranting. I'm a listener....it's what I do.

~Matthew~

[Dark Elf Bard]

oh Jormy

it's not that you're helping me by doing anything in particular

it's that you care enough to stick around

[Jormengand]

oh Jormy

it's not that you're helping me by doing anything in particular

it's that you care enough to stick around

*Sticks around.*

I can do that. I think.

[Dark Elf Bard]

*hugs and kisses*

I have been taught how to make poppyseed muffins. Muffins for everyone!

[Socratov]

Yeah, I'm sure they would all be crying. Tears of joy.

I'd rather not waste your time, and I have no idea why I'm even bothering to post this. Meh.

Dude! (Going on your avvy)

This thread is by definition of its participants a support thread. No one looking for support or needing it without looking can by definition waste people's time here. We choose to support, and this time you're it. :smallwink:

As you are feeling a bit down now, please find solace in the fact that we do want to help you and no amount of dissuasion on your part can deter us. So please cheer up knowing the fact that no matter how hard things seem, tou will allways have someone to tslk to in this thread, simeone to support you in this thread and best of all, as long as this thread and its inhabitants exust, you will always have friends looking out for you.

(Sorry, wanted to keep it short, but then I accidently rolled my perform(forumpost) check)

[Lycunadari]

Tried coming out to my mum today but chickened out. Will try again tomorrow. :/


New avatar!

Does it look as androgynous as I hope?
It does and it's very pretty. Also, *hugs*



To once again steal the idea of dropping links, OrangePopFox (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/) on DeviantArt draws some absolutely adorable comics. Not all of them involve GRSM peeps, but the series beginning with Pancakes (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/39478844) continuing in Dance With Me (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/32668576) and now being at Welcome to the Family (http://orangepopfox.deviantart.com/gallery/44828071), is about a lesbian couple and includes a gay male couple* and a non-binary individual (Spot, referred to as ze and hir in the description) in the latest story. I found them really heart-warming and fun, so I thought I'd share them. :smallsmile:

*Said couple are also the uncles and caretakers of Nina the witch in other stories by OrangePopFox, which are also adorbs, but not particularly related to the thread other than them.
Thanks for the links! The comics are adorable. :smallsmile:

Yep! I like it. :smallsmile:

Which reminds me, I should make myself a new version of this avatar...I was gonna, but got side-tracked.
I'll take this chance and say that I always admired your avatars. :smallsmile:


Oh, the little things in life. As i bought a train ticket in the morning (i was at a brony meetup the whole day, which was nice too ^.^) there were two children talking to each other next to me. I didnt understand what they said, but after a while one of them talked more loudly than before: "That's a woman." And i know exactly who they were talking about :smallsmile: Really made my day
Yay!

...


...


So, as I feared, stupid bureaucratic things happened, and my letter was delayed again. But this time, I'm out of state for the next week, so I have to wait until the Friday after next for my next chance. So this means that it'll have been...a minimum of six weeks since the initial date that I was expecting to get my letter before the next opportunity. A month and a half of my life I can't get back...

Also, the reason I'm out of state is because I'm going to Ohio to visit my dad. I'm planning on coming out to him and my step-mom. I think they'll be fine, but I'm incredibly nervous. If for some reason they aren't, then what will I do for the remainder of that week? If they kick me out, then where will I stay? How will I get back to the airport for my flight home? I was planning on printing some things out for my folks to read, so that they have some resources. I was going to print Natalie Reed's 13 Myths, some info from TransWhat?, the official definition from the APA (I remember I had a link to that before and I printed it off for my best friend, but I can't find it anymore), and The Seasick Squid, as a means of demonstrating what I was feeling like throughout my life. Is there anything else that someone might recommend, either to add to or replace from my list?


~Phoenix~
Oh Phee... *hugs tightly* :smallfrown:
Also, good luck!



Indeed I have, but it's a tad far. I'm sure though that not just I would appreciate pictures (of the festival in general and of you in Gewandung in particular).
This weekend was the last one anyway. Try again in four years. :smalltongue:
Sadly there are no pictures of me, because I didn't get a role. But I have some other photos, I'll post them in the arts and crafts thread later.


Urgh. Not feeling at all good. Couldn't even eat until my hunger overtook my conviction that I was wasting the food (on the basis that it could have been eaten by someone who was actually going to do something useful for the world). I still can't help thinking that everyone would be happier if I were gone. I mean, what have I brought to the table except arguments and anger?

I was going to say more, but I don't even have the energy to do that.
*hugs* I hope you feel better soon.

[Lady Serpentine]

Jorm, we've not always gotten along, but I certainly don't want you gone. When we're not screaming at each other, you can be quite fun to have around.


Tried coming out to my mum today but chickened out. Will try again tomorrow. :/


*offers hugs and/or cake*

[Jormengand]

Jorm, we've not always gotten along, but I certainly don't want you gone. When we're not screaming at each other, you can be quite fun to have around.

I bet I'm being so much fun right now, huh?

[Lady Serpentine]

I bet I'm being so much fun right now, huh?

Well, isn't thaaaaat a nice loop. [/snark]

[Lentrax]

Look. I know it isn't fun being in a place where you really, really want to be gone.

TW: Depression, Suicide.
After what I had to go through to get Aria, then to lose her? With everyone who had tormented me all along still there? I wished I could die. Leave this world and see the next.

I didn't, but I was so close, I could almost taste the blade in my hands. I wanted to feel the blade in my heart. Just to feel something again. So yeah. I've been in some very dark places. Physically and spiritually.

I awaken every day with her blood on my hands. When I fall asleep, I see her body lying dead in a casket.

When I tell you that I want to help you away from whatever darkness you have found yourself in, believe me when I say I want to help. Not for me. Not to help me rest any easier at night. But because that is what I want to do. No one should live in darkness by themselves.

Because we don't have to be alone.

[Jormengand]

Look. I know it isn't fun being in a place where you really, really want to be gone.

TW: Depression, Suicide.
After what I had to go through to get Aria, then to lose her? With everyone who had tormented me all along still there? I wished I could die. Leave this world and see the next.

I didn't, but I was so close, I could almost taste the blade in my hands. I wanted to feel the blade in my heart. Just to feel something again. So yeah. I've been in some very dark places. Physically and spiritually.

I awaken every day with her blood on my hands. When I fall asleep, I see her body lying dead in a casket.

When I tell you that I want to help you away from whatever darkness you have found yourself in, believe me when I say I want to help. Not for me. Not to help me rest any easier at night. But because that is what I want to do. No one should live in darkness by themselves.

Because we don't have to be alone.

TW everything.
No, no, really.
My eyes glaze over as I look at my screen. I feel physically sick. I look down at the floor, and my headphones slip off, and bounce on the floor. I wasn't even listening to anything.

Reading the story presented to me, I am certain that on any other day I would feel sorry for the one who told it. Not today.

The taste and smell of bleach fills my face. It burns the inside of my mouth, and then I'm back in my chair. Hot, febrile, demented. I remember the most recent of my attempts, how stupid I felt afterwards. It has a warning saying it's deadly. I treat it more as an invitation. Obviously, not deadly enough. I pause a second, to realise that I'm writing in the present. Deciding that it feels appropriate, I continue.

I remember dreading going into school the next day. Half-queer, dabbler, slut. That was the least of my worries. I was no-one, no-one cared about me.

My internet cuts half-way through typing. I keep on typing, and then try to reset it. It doesn't work. I resume typing, hoping that it will work soon. I start to cry, feeling worthless.

My thoughts become more disjointed, and I run through at least five different attempts to end it all. There were more than that. Way more. All of them were some kind of poison, I think - I don't even have the strength of character to do it properly. God damn it, I can't even kill myself right.

[Lentrax]

Have you ever talked to a professional about any of this?

If no, then you need to.

Soon. Like today soon.

Many many mental health facilities will see people immediately if there is a real risk of suicide.

You need more help than I can provide over this screen. But, please, for your sake, go now.

We will support you as much as we can, but you need some professional help as well.

Please.

[Jormengand]

Have you ever talked to a professional about any of this?

Of course I have. At least three. All were incompetent and condescending.

[Lentrax]

I'm sorry they were. But you still need someone to talk to. The fact that you were able to get this far without anyone caring at all is so... so.... stupid.:smallfurious:

Please, try and find find someone to talk to. They can't all be arrogant ****wads.

[Jormengand]

I'm sorry they were. But you still need someone to talk to. The fact that you were able to get this far without anyone caring at all is so... so.... stupid.:smallfurious:

Please, try and find find someone to talk to. They can't all be arrogant ****wads.

Ha! You think that anyone should care about me? I barely care about me, and I only do because I have the misfortune of having to be such a pathetic excuse for an individual. Spare yourself, mate.

[Skeppio]

I'll take this chance and say that I always admired your avatars. :smallsmile:

:smallredface: Thanks! ^__^

Also, Jormengand: I know what you're feeling, I've been through depression that made me say the exact same things you're saying. Hell, the people in this thread can back that up, they've seen me at my worst. But they didn't give up on me. Because no-one, NO-ONE deserves to be given up on.

Please, see a professional. We're saying this because we care (and the forum rules limit how much medical/ psychiatric aid we can provide). If they're condescending or incompetent, let them know. If they don't pick up their game, find another professional. There are loads of good, helpful therapists out there. I wouldn't be talking to you right now if there weren't.

[Lentrax]

Listen.

You're only words on a screen to me. But I care about what happens to you. Just like I care about Phee, and Tamsin, and Zorg, and Misty, and Lixie, and Matt, and everyone else I met here.

The fact you feel like no one can care about you is horse****. And there is noway you are so pathetic that you feel you have to end it all than keep going.

I know. I felt that way. I felt that way when my 5 year old son decided I
was too much of a pain to want anything to do with me, and my wife was on the verge of leaving because I was in a very bad place in my mind.

I have been to the depths of despair, friend. I have had to look into the darkest parts of my shattered soul and forge what pieces I could into something worth living for. I have had to have someone pull the knife from my hand to keep me from slitting my wrists.

But I am still here. I am still here to be able to tell you these words.

You are not pathetic. You are not useless. You are a person. Breathing and whole. You are worth living. Your life is worth fighting for. And if you really truly feel it isn't, then you find something in it that you want. You find something that is worth fighting for, and you claw for it. Tooth and nail, kicking and screaming. You fight for your life.

Because life is worth fighting for, you are worth fighting for. And I will stand by you in that fight.

[Jormengand]

And if you really truly feel it isn't, then you find something in it that you want.

Like what? There's nothing left.

[Chess435]

Ha! You think that anyone should care about me? I barely care about me, and I only do because I have the misfortune of having to be such a pathetic excuse for an individual. Spare yourself, mate.

We care about you. All of us do. :smallfrown: If you truly believe that we shouldn't care about you simply because nobody else does, than I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken. Don't worry about troubling us with your problems, because that's what we're here for.

[Jormengand]

We care about you. All of us do.

What, those of you who I don't offend within seconds of entering the thread? Damn it, why do you care? What am I worth to you?

[Lentrax]

Like what? There's nothing left.

There is always something. A dream, a goal, it doesn't have to be some physical thing, it could be something simple like going to school and finishing a degree, or working your way to your dream job. Or maybe it is a physical thing, it doesn't matter.

But there has to be something. Hell, I found something. It doesn't happen right away, and you will need help to find it. But you will be able o find it.

[Jormengand]

There is always something. A dream, a goal, it doesn't have to be some physical thing, it could be something simple like going to school and finishing a degree, or working your way to your dream job. Or maybe it is a physical thing, it doesn't matter.

But there has to be something. Hell, I found something. It doesn't happen right away, and you will need help to find it. But you will be able o find it.

I don't really care about my school work. Lord knows I've ballsed up enough as-is if he knows anything at all. There's nothing.

[Chess435]

What, those of you who I don't offend within seconds of entering the thread? Damn it, why do you care? What am I worth to you?

I care about you because you're family, Jor. This thread is my family.

[Jormengand]

I care about you because you're family, Jor. This thread is my family.

You care about people the moment they post here, even if they're creepy demented pieces of **** like me? Well, that's silly, isn't it?

[Lentrax]

You care about people the moment they post here, even if they're creepy demented pieces of **** like me? Well, that's silly, isn't it?

Not if we're family.

Family sticks up for its own. No matter what.

[Chess435]

Not if we're family.

Family sticks up for its own. No matter what.

This. So very much this. You're a reasonable person when you aren't depressed like this, Jor. I've seen it.

[Jormengand]

This. So very much this. You're a reasonable person when you aren't depressed like this, Jor. I've seen it.

Yeah, right. Name one thing that I've done which has actually been beneficial to anyone, without being more detrimental to anyone else.

[Lentrax]

Being here.

Offering your opinion.

Playing in games.

There's three things right there. And those are off the top of my head.

[Jormengand]

Being here.

Offering your opinion.

Playing in games.

There's three things right there. And those are off the top of my head.

My presence and opinions have been incredibly detrimental to those among us, as you well know, as has my presence in games, as you perhaps know less well.

[KenderWizard]

Come on, Jor. I don't know you, I don't know what you're good at or what you like. I've seen you post here, I've seen you be nice to people. Sure, sometimes you're in arguments, so's a lot of people. There's no argument you could get into here that would be more upsetting than this kind of talk. What you have is an illness, and it's common, normal and above all, transient. It can be dangerous, but there are treatments. You can fight it off, and you should, because it's just a stupid illness and you're worth more than it's telling you. Doesn't matter if you only ever do one good thing, it's still worth fighting for.

((hugs)) for everyone who wants hugs

[Chess435]

Yeah, right. Name one thing that I've done which has actually been beneficial to anyone, without being more detrimental to anyone else.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15362457&postcount=1258

You gave me hugs when I was bummed out from screwing up a job interview. You showed that you cared about me, personally. You even did it twice, just to make sure. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15362511&postcount=1263)

[Jormengand]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15362457&postcount=1258

You gave me hugs when I was bummed out from screwing up a job interview. You showed that you cared about me, personally.

I am pressing shift-8-h-u-g-s-shift-8. It's the same thing I do for everyone else, because that's just what you do here.

[Heliomance]

Well... that was a fun mini-meet! Lena's a lot taller than I expected. Just as pretty though :P

Succubus has pics. Nag him for them!

[Chess435]

I am pressing shift-8-h-u-g-s-shift-8. It's the same thing I do for everyone else, because that's just what you do here.

You gave advice to MuffinPuffin about sexuailty. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15369341&postcount=1320)

[Jormengand]

You gave advice to MuffinPuffin about sexuailty. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15369341&postcount=1320)

Was ninja'd/swordsaged/whatever and then tried to justify why it was better than the advice given above. To be honest, I did it because I wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about rather than actually to help someone.

[Sabeki]

C'mon Jor, this isn't like you. Cheer up and feel better, the world is filled with worth situations than yours. If something gets you down, you get back up, you keep going, and you spit in the face of whoever tries to stop you. Everyone deserves happiness.

[Chess435]

Was ninja'd/swordsaged/whatever and then tried to justify why it was better than the advice given above. To be honest, I did it because I wanted to sound like I knew what I was talking about rather than actually to help someone.

You helped MeanMrsMustard come out to her parents as asexual. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15531188&postcount=1274)

[Jormengand]

C'mon Jor, this isn't like you.

This is very much like me. I'm a bit cheerier when I'm with people weird enough to care, but honestly? Most of my time is spent moping around being useless, rather than bouncing around being useless.

[Eurus]

You care about people the moment they post here, even if they're creepy demented pieces of **** like me? Well, that's silly, isn't it?

I realize, from personal experience, that it's natural and frustrating to feel like people don't really care about you, like they're just trying to be nice or acting out of some kind of sense of obligation, or that the version of "you" that they care about is some abstracted and idealized version. But that's not really accurate.

True, nobody here knows you beyond the parts of you that you put online. But that doesn't make their sympathy and concern artificial or irrelevant. Partly, it's the natural response of many people to care about and want to help people who are obviously suffering -- and maybe that's unsatisfying. But I would guess that a significant percentage of the people here also empathize because we've been battling our own serious depressions. Many people can relate, to some degree. So is it so hard to believe that yes, they have concern and sympathy for you and want to help?

None of us are saints here. When you're caught in the jaws of depression, perspective tends to get a little warped. You notice every person who's better than you at something, and flay yourself mentally for every flaw. We've all been there and done that too. It's a difficult pattern to break from, even temporarily.

I'm not going to say "you are a special snowflake and a valuable person and I love you" because I don't know you, and that would probably slide off even if I meant it. I'm saying that you are not alone, you are never alone, it is pretty much impossible to be alone nowadays because there are always people out there who are more than willing to care and get to know you, if you let them, and there are always people who have suffered through similar things, and would like to keep anyone else from suffering more than necessary. And unless you make a habit of picking up and murdering hitchhikers, you are unlikely to convince anyone that you are a genuinely terrible person, because we've all got plenty of skeletons in our own closets.

[Jormengand]

And unless you make a habit of picking up and murdering hitchhikers, you are unlikely to convince anyone that you are a genuinely terrible person, because we've all got plenty of skeletons in our own closets.

You can be a terrible person without killing people. You can be a good person with killing people. Your point is what?

[Chess435]

You helped Karen when she was feeling the way you do now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15559256&postcount=434)

[Karen Lynn]

Jor... I really want to do more for you than this, but...

~~SUPER ULTRA MEGA HUGS OF FLUFF~~

I will be back. Also, you aren't allowed to commit suicide. I'd miss you too much. I like my armored Libra knight of balanced light and dark.

[Jormengand]

You helped Karen when she was feeling the way you do now. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15559256&postcount=434)

I made a joke about freaking paladins, for god's sake.

Jor... I really want to do more for you than this, but...

~~SUPER ULTRA MEGA HUGS OF FLUFF~~

I will be back. Also, you aren't allowed to commit suicide. I'd miss you too much. I like my armored Libra knight of balanced light and dark.

Heh. Actually, he's terribly drawn. Another thing to be really bad at.

Aww, Karen, you're cute. Am I allowed to fall in love with you, or is that just a little odd?

[Eurus]

You can be a terrible person without killing people. You can be a good person with killing people. Your point is what?

I feel like you're missing the forest for the trees here, a bit. That wasn't really my point. I was trying to say that you're mentally magnifying the negative aspects of yourself and then hating yourself for it, and you very likely don't deserve nearly that much self-hate.

[TaiLiu]

*hugs and kisses*

I have been taught how to make poppyseed muffins. Muffins for everyone!
Ah! Who was the teacher?

Tried coming out to my mum today but chickened out. Will try again tomorrow. :/
Good luck! Tell us how it goes!

What, those of you who I don't offend within seconds of entering the thread? Damn it, why do you care? What am I worth to you?
Hours, days, months, years of my life. You're worth quite a bit, comrade. Don't underrate yourself.

[Chess435]

I made a joke about freaking paladins, for god's sake.


I was referring to the last part of that post.

[Jormengand]

Don't underrate yourself.

"Jor is actually really underrated. You just have to build him right so you can spam Smite Stupid while getting the most out of your Depression ability."

[Irish Musician]

You care about people the moment they post here, even if they're creepy demented pieces of **** like me? Well, that's silly, isn't it?
Why is that silly, to care about people the moment you meet them? I do that quite often and unless someone gives me a true reason, i.e. a reason that holds water for me, I love to care about people and do my best to help them.:smallbiggrin:

I know how you feel Jor, I truly do. I have felt very, very, very depressed and useless and as though I mattered to no one. I have been there and felt that and it really didn't matter to me what anyone else said....I was stupid and a lowly piece of crap.:smallsigh:

That being said.....it gets better. :smallsmile: I know you have bad days, such as this one. But I also know you have good days, so when one of these bad days comes along I want you to think of the good days and know that they are coming back. I know it seems like it will never end, but it will.

And remember, we are here for you....all of you :smallsmile::smallwink:

~Matthew~

[Mina Kobold]

Ha! You think that anyone should care about me? I barely care about me, and I only do because I have the misfortune of having to be such a pathetic excuse for an individual. Spare yourself, mate.

I care about you, and I don't think you are pathetic. You are great at articulating your thoughts, you can speak frankly when you feel it needed and all of the things Chessy said were good and wonderful. Also, you are a person, an individual, and that is valuable on its own. Plus, you are talking to us about it, so hopefully that means you also want us to care, and we want to make you happy. :smallsmile:


Like what? There's nothing left.

Life itself, newness, seeing where everything goes, contributing another unique voice to humanity, cute animals, video games, anything wonderful about living and being a part of the world. No matter how small it may seem, there will always be much more you can do alive than dead, including just being you and adding your thoughts when you can. Two cents of thoughts or one vote never seem much, but the ripples are monumental.


What, those of you who I don't offend within seconds of entering the thread? Damn it, why do you care? What am I worth to you?

You are a person, you are quite nice and you need people to care. Sure, you have said things I thought unwise or disagreed with, but so has most people, myself included, and I see no reason to take much offence at someone who honestly tries. You are much more worth than any offence or opinion. Much much more. :smallsmile:


You can be a terrible person without killing people. You can be a good person with killing people. Your point is what?

But you have to do something of the same order to be able to convince anyone here that you are at all terrible. But even then, not everybody will be convinced and we will be here no matter what you do, ready to listen and support you if things are going badly. We can't stand in for professionals nor be physically close, but we can and will do what we can. :smallsmile:

[TaiLiu]

"Jor is actually really underrated. You just have to build him right so you can spam Smite Stupid while getting the most out of your Depression ability."
"Yes, but applying the ex-Depression prestige class is well worth the difficult requirements. It doubles your Smite Stupid attempts, gives some juicy morale bonuses, and grants some excellent spells."

[Irish Musician]

What, those of you who I don't offend within seconds of entering the thread? Damn it, why do you care? What am I worth to you?
Everybody makes mistakes, can't be helped. You are a person, living and breathing, and therefore should be cared about. It doesn't matter what you say now.....you are stuck with me caring about you and there ain't crap you can do about it :smallbiggrin:

[Jormengand]

I love you guys. I'm almost happy again.

I still feel useless, but it's a floaty happy kind of useless.

[Zorg]

@ TaiLiu - Thank you :smallsmile:


@ Lauren - funny you should say that as I generally don't smile much as it shows off that I can't move half my face properly, so it is very nice to hear you say I have a pretty smile.

@ Irish Matthew - I had a chuckle about the boots as they're $40 el cheapo myster brand direct from China jobs, so I was just happy they didn't disintegrate as soon as I started walking in them :smalltongue:
On the second point it was less about the validity of emotions but about considering myself a part of the queer community. I mean I'm sure you get more riled than some queer people about discrimination (and I'm glad you do!) but that's not how being part of a community (any community!) should be measured.

@ Lentrax - and we care about you too :smallsmile:

@ Jor - given I deal with what you're feeling the best I can do is give you some advice of what I do to try and get out of it.
Firstly: just because you get into arguments with people doesn't mean they don't care. If you do and they say it doesn't matter and they still care about you - it doesn't matter and they still care about you.

Secondly: stop worrying about yourself. I mean you're stuck with yourself so it can be dealt with later - take time to message a friend, or work on a game project, or read a book or practice your drawing. To head off any attempt at a "grrr, I have nobody" rebuttal, several people here have offered to talk via PMs and there's a whole forum here about all sorts of subjects. And to head of complaints about being bad at drawing or whatever - practice and become better. There are a few threads in the arts n crafts section of people getting better.

Thirdly: I know exactly what it's like to feel you have no friends, no-one who cares and that the only way to show how much I'm hurting inside is to die. I've even tried killing myself many years ago. But it didn't help, as there was only one thing that helped (as in it actually helped) - I talked to people. See when you're laid up with bandaged wrists people still don't know what's wrong until you tell them. But what was even better was just talking. What's on TV, what'd you cook for dinner and stuff. And for that please refer to point the second above.

Fourthly: having goals was mentioned earlier and you said there's nothing left. Well, you are still you. My current life goal, and my goal for the last decade really, is to be happy. That's it. No need for any great career path if it won't achieve that. It's a shaky road to get there, and sometimes it gets harder to see it being possible than others. But life is hard. Even without depression it's hard - just from my experience I've been homeless, broke, unemployed and had severe mental breakdowns on more than one occasion.
But if there's one thing you also have it's bloody minded stubbornness so set a positive goal for your own self and if life gets you down kick it in the balls. Remember, when life gets tough it just means god's afraid of your progress.

[TaiLiu]

I love you guys. I'm almost happy again.

I still feel useless, but it's a floaty happy kind of useless.
Almost happy? Let's stack those bonuses up, then! *+2 Hug.*

[Jormengand]

Almost happy? Let's stack those bonuses up, then! *+2 Hug.*

+2 hug is unoptimised. You need a +1 keen hug.

[Karen Lynn]

+2 hug is unoptimised. You need a +1 keen hug.

Nah, I think a +1 hug of impact would be better here.

[Irish Musician]

I still feel useless, but it's a floaty happy kind of useless.
To help you feel even better, here is my little kitten, Henry the Monster, being pretty useless :smalltongue: They are fairly large, so might want to right click, view image....to see them better
http://i.imgur.com/jAKGdwO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7u5Rr0B.jpg

@ Irish Matthew - I had a chuckle about the boots as they're $40 el cheapo myster brand direct from China jobs, so I was just happy they didn't disintegrate as soon as I started walking in them :smalltongue:
On the second point it was less about the validity of emotions but about considering myself a part of the queer community. I mean I'm sure you get more riled than some queer people about discrimination (and I'm glad you do!) but that's not how being part of a community (any community!) should be measured.
I love when cheap clothes come off as being totally awesome!! I'm a Tarjet (Target) shopper myself :smallbiggrin:
On the second: That is true, I see what you are saying now :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

[Jormengand]

Nah, I think a +1 hug of impact would be better here.

Heh. You guys...


To help you feel even better, here is my little kitten, Henry the Monster, being pretty useless
D'aww.

[Heliomance]

To help you feel even better, here is my little kitten, Henry the Monster, being pretty useless :smalltongue: They are fairly large, so might want to right click, view image....to see them better
http://i.imgur.com/jAKGdwO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7u5Rr0B.jpg


http://rlv.zcache.com/actual_size_stickers-r521f015d55d84bba95545070f43522cb_v9waf_8byvr_512. jpg

[TaiLiu]

Heh. You guys...
"You guys should cast Greater Magic Weapon on the Hug?" No problem!

[Jormengand]

"You guys should cast Greater Magic Weapon on the Hug?" No problem!

What's your CMD? I need to make a grapple check.

[Chess435]

Heh. You guys...


D'aww.

And then we can use Greater Magic Hugs to increase their enhancement bonus! :smallbiggrin: *+5 hug of Impact*

I got beat to it! :smalltongue:

[TaiLiu]

What's your CMD? I need to make a grapple check.
Very, very low. Come at us!

And then we can use Greater Magic Hugs to increase their enhancement bonus! :smallbiggrin: *+5 hug of Impact*
Genius! We'll build the Hug out of Love, too!

[Jormengand]

Very, very low. Come at us!

*Rolls grapple*
*Rolls 20*
*Hugs.*

[TaiLiu]

*Rolls grapple*
*Rolls 20*
*Hugs.*
I have never been so happy to fail a grapple check!

[Lentrax]

Well if that's the case I'd better cast:

Greater Hug(universal)

Allows caster to deliver any known hug as a ranged touch attack.

[TaiLiu]

Well if that's the case I'd better cast:

Greater Hug(universal)

Allows caster to deliver any known hug as a ranged touch attack.
That is the best spell, ever. I'll take ten scrolls of it!

[Jormengand]

That is the best spell, ever. I'll take ten scrolls of it!

*Copies into hugbook.*

[TaiLiu]

*Copies into hugbook.*
You hugcasters and your hugbooks! I have to UMD my spells! :smalltongue:

[Jormengand]

You hugcasters and your hugbooks! I have to UMD my spells! :smalltongue:

Actually, I lied. I don't have a hugbook, I hug spontaneously. But RAW, I can draw my hugs from whatever hug list I want.

[Irish Musician]

Well if that's the case I'd better cast:

Greater Hug(universal)

Allows caster to deliver any known hug as a ranged touch attack.
When you get to high epic levels you get:

Massive Hug(Epic)

Allows caster to hug everyone in the world at once, no known saves.

That takes a lot of time and research to learn though :smallamused:

[TaiLiu]

Actually, I lied. I don't have a hugbook, I hug spontaneously. But RAW, I can draw my hugs from whatever hug list I want.
Oo, powerful.

When you get to high epic levels you get:

Massive Hug(Epic)

Allows caster to hug everyone in the world at once, no known saves.

That takes a lot of time and research to learn though :smallamused:
You have to watch out for that Hug Resistance, though.

[Chess435]

When you get to high epic levels you get:

Massive Hug(Epic)

Allows caster to hug everyone in the world at once, no known saves.

That takes a lot of time and research to learn though :smallamused:

I prefer the one epic hug that's single target but hugs them on a sub-atomic level. :smallbiggrin:

[Irish Musician]

Oo, powerful.

You have to watch out for that Hug Resistance, though.
That's why you have to cast:

Overcome Resistance: Hugs

Right before hand :smallwink:

[TaiLiu]

I prefer the one epic hug that's single target but hugs them on a sub-atomic level. :smallbiggrin:
Yes, that spell gives some absolutely astounding morale bonuses. That's why it's Epic, I suppose.

That's why you have to cast:

Overcome Resistance: Hugs

Right before hand :smallwink:
On everybody in the world? :smalltongue:

[Irish Musician]

On everybody in the world? :smalltongue:
Hey, if you are an epic caster you could pull it off!! :smallbiggrin:

[TaiLiu]

Hey, if you are an epic caster you could pull it off!! :smallbiggrin:
That is true!

[HMS Sophia]

Sooo... I'm actually alive and still sort of around. At least in certain places. How has everyone been?

[TaiLiu]

Sooo... I'm actually alive and still sort of around. At least in certain places. How has everyone been?
Ah! Greetings again, Sophia! I am well.

[Kittenwolf]

Time to describe my last few days!

*A Wild Leviathan Appears!*
*Leviathan uses PAX 3 day pass*
*PAX is now available*
*PAX uses "Dozens of things to do"*
*Leviathan is confused*
*Leviathan uses Planning*
It's Super Effective!
*PAX uses "Awesome pretty costumes"*
*Leviathan is infatuated*
*Leviathan uses Sleep*
*Leviathan uses Hairdressers appointment*
*Leviathan gains "New hair colour"*
*Hairdresser uses curlers*
It's not very effective
*Leviathan uses "Chainmail & Cloak outfit"*
*Leviathan gains "sore shoulders"*
*PAX uses "Long queue for panels'*
*Leviathan uses "Chat with friends"*
It's super effective!
*Leviathan uses sleep*
*Leviathan uses Steampunk Outfit*
*Leviathan gains "Photographer attention"*
*PAX uses "End of convention exhaustion"*
*Leviathan falls asleep*
*Leviathan uses recovery day*
It's super effective!
*Work uses 'Busy Day'*
*Half the staff at work disappear*
*Leviathan uses "Make funny post on forums"*

[Chess435]

*Leviathan uses "Make funny post on forums"*

A critical hit!
Cody uses 'Request Pictures!'

[Sabeki]

How was PAX, Levoathan?

@Jor: Good to see your feeling better. *Hugs*

[Mynxae]

A critical hit!
Cody uses 'Request Pictures!'

Oh myyy :smallwink:

[Kittenwolf]

Hrm. I have pictures of my hair, but not of my costumes :(

PAX was a lot of fun Sabeki, though very tiring (no surprise).
Getting into panels was really hard, and involved queuing at least an hour before the panel started (they really need a bigger venue for next year).
Tonnes of gorgeous costumes though, and lots of fun activities and random things being run. Great to see so many Indy games, and wow the traffic that they got! I think PAX has probably ensured some games actually being successful.

Was also amusing seeing how the "Big Three" handled their presence & marketing.
Sony: Did not attend
Microsoft: Had a (nonfunctional) XBox One in a glass case that people (only a couple at a time) could take photos of, and tied up the main theater for several hours each day in order to run a one-hour panel on the XBox One.
Nintendo: Had a DS lounge area set aside with beanbags, and another area in the Expo hall where they were running DS game competitions and big screen displays and stuff all weekend.

Guess which one came out looking the best?

[Heliomance]

Bleh. graduation today; I have to catch a train at half 5, so I'm up at silly o'clock in the morning. Also, the heatwave we've been having chose today of all days to break. First rain we've had in probably 3 weeks and it has to be on my graduation day.

[Sabeki]

That sucks. Hope it clears up soon!

[SiuiS]

People argue because they are, not because they don't.
This is the Internet. All it takes to not care is to throw your name onto the 'ignore' list and suddenly you're nothing more than a tiny box saying "X has posted."

The fact that everyone argues means one is important. The proof is in how easy it is to just ignore someone. By not ignoring them, you are choosing to the them a place in your life, your mind. You argue with someone because you care about them enough you want them to share or at least understand your thoughts and opinions.

[Lauren]

A critical hit!
Cody uses 'Request Pictures!'

I roll to assist. It's a success. Granted I already saw one hair pic and it was awesome, but we need to share the awesome with the rest of the thread.

[Skeppio]

I roll to assist. It's a success. Granted I already saw one hair pic and it was awesome, but we need to share the awesome with the rest of the thread.

Pics? I wanna see! :O

And good to see you're feeling better Jormengand *hugs* :smallsmile:

(Also: New avatar! Now with magic rainbow sword! :smallbiggrin:)

[Kittenwolf]

I roll to assist. It's a success. Granted I already saw one hair pic and it was awesome, but we need to share the awesome with the rest of the thread.

*laughs*
Ok ok, here's the hair:
Should I track down outfit photos I'll be sure to repost


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZOJJCEAAJp1k_zps4120245a.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZAD0CUAEb1aV_zpsb5746975.jpg



Unfortunately the curls only lasted 3/4 hour :(. Seriously tempted by a perm.

[Skeppio]

*laughs*
Ok ok, here's the hair:
Should I track down outfit photos I'll be sure to repost

*snip*

^_^ Looks great!


Unfortunately the curls only lasted 3/4 hour :(. Seriously tempted by a perm.

Aww, not even an hour? Bummer. :smallfrown:

[Chess435]

Pics? I wanna see! :O

And good to see you're feeling better Jormengand *hugs* :smallsmile:

(Also: New avatar! Now with magic rainbow sword! :smallbiggrin:)

*Is totally jealous of your magic rainbow sword* Is it prismatic burst?


*laughs*
Ok ok, here's the hair:
Should I track down outfit photos I'll be sure to repost


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZOJJCEAAJp1k_zps4120245a.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZAD0CUAEb1aV_zpsb5746975.jpg



Unfortunately the curls only lasted 3/4 hour :(. Seriously tempted by a perm.

Ooooh, curly. :smalltongue:

[Skeppio]

*Is totally jealous of your magic rainbow sword* Is it prismatic burst?

I hadn't thought about it. It's just made of rainbow. :smalltongue:

[Sabeki]

Did you make it?

[Skeppio]

Did you make it?

My avatar? Yep, it's all my own work. ^_^

[Sabeki]

Cool

:smallbiggrin:

[Mono Vertigo]

Hey there! Sorry for my absence. I'm working at a holiday camp for poly-handicapped people (yes, that's the first job I've been talking about). Internet access is only in one building, and the days are busy like whoa.
My presence will continue to be scarce for a month or so.
Can I give belated hugs for everyone?

[Lady Serpentine]

Of course!

(I assume that that means a holiday camp for people handicapped in multiple ways, not a holiday camp for those who have difficult with relationships involving more than one person? :smalltongue:)

[Lauren]

*laughs*
Ok ok, here's the hair:
Should I track down outfit photos I'll be sure to repost


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZOJJCEAAJp1k_zps4120245a.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b279/LeviathanZero/BPlZAD0CUAEb1aV_zpsb5746975.jpg



Unfortunately the curls only lasted 3/4 hour :(. Seriously tempted by a perm.

Please tell me it just looks shorter because of the curls and you didn't get it cut. (That said, mine needs a trim, but I won't get any more than two inches off.)

It looks lovely, by the way, but you knew that :smalltongue:


Of course!

(I assume that that means a holiday camp for people handicapped in multiple ways, not a holiday camp for those who have difficult with relationships involving more than one person? :smalltongue:)

I just spat potato on my monitor at that, jeez. :smallbiggrin:

[Lady Serpentine]

I just spat potato on my monitor at that, jeez. :smallbiggrin:

Hey, better that than something that'll mess up the keyboard! :smallbiggrin:

[Skeppio]

I just spat potato on my monitor at that, jeez. :smallbiggrin:

Eww.. D:
Lucky potato isn't as hard to clean up as liquid, which would also damage your computer.

[HMS Sophia]

I got asked if I had native american blood yesterday, just completely out of the blue, the first thing this woman had said to me.
It isn't the first time, but I really don't know how to respond to this (other than 'no'). Is this an overly nosey question? Am I just being over-sensitive to people talking too me :smalltongue:

There's nothing bad about it, I just find it odd. I guess it just goes in the pile along with "Where are you from?" (Brighton) "No, where's your family from" (Ireland or Wales), "Are you Greek/Turkish/insert other Mediterranean nation?" (No).:smallamused:

[Astrella]

Hi everyone, the meetup was really great, tons of awesome people and fun games and everything and I presented the entire meetup and there were barely any screw ups and it was very affirming. :smallsmile:

Also met up with Helio yesterday and she did my make up for the very first time and just walking around with her through London like that felt great. :smallsmile:

*hugs for everyone*

[Skeppio]

Hi everyone, the meetup was really great, tons of awesome people and fun games and everything and I presented the entire meetup and there were barely any screw ups and it was very affirming. :smallsmile:

Also met up with Helio yesterday and she did my make up for the very first time and just walking around with her through London like that felt great. :smallsmile:

*hugs for everyone*

Yay, glad to hear things went so well! :smallsmile:
And that sounds amazing! Glad you had a good time with Helio. :)
*hugs*

[HMS Sophia]

Loads of awesome stuff

I am so very, very jealous right now :smalltongue:
Been stuck with builders for the last two weeks, so no presenting even though I'm at home...

[Lady Serpentine]

I am so very, very jealous right now :smalltongue:
Been stuck with builders for the last two weeks, so no presenting even though I'm at home...

Hm... Dunno if you prefer cookies or hugs or what, but... Have one or both? :smallsmile:

[HMS Sophia]

Hm... Dunno if you prefer cookies or hugs or what, but... Have one or both? :smallsmile:

Both, though preferably lots of the second ^^
Might just say screw it and then hide in my room all day...

[Lady Serpentine]

Both, though preferably lots of the second ^^
Might just say screw it and then hide in my room all day...

Both it is, then. ^_^ *hugs and curls up next to with a large tin of cookies*

Well, if it makes you feel better... Any reason not to, really? (Though, if you have any friends you're out to, going out with them might work too; dunno if that's all viable, though.)

[Mono Vertigo]

Of course!

(I assume that that means a holiday camp for people handicapped in multiple ways, not a holiday camp for those who have difficult with relationships involving more than one person? :smalltongue:)
Technically, the right answer is "yes".

*hugs for all!*

[HMS Sophia]

Both it is, then. ^_^ *hugs and curls up next to with a large tin of cookies*

Well, if it makes you feel better... Any reason not to, really? (Though, if you have any friends you're out to, going out with them might work too; dunno if that's all viable, though.)

*noms cookies*

I have no friends! (locally). Yeah, let alone any I'm out too, I'm pretty damn isolated here :p
Any reason not too... Well I live in an area comparative to the american south for it's attitude to alternative lifestyles, and there are two very manly men builders downstairs :smalltongue:

[Lady Serpentine]

Technically, the right answer is "yes".

*hugs for all!*

Well then. Good to know. :smalltongue:


*noms cookies*

I have no friends! (locally). Yeah, let alone any I'm out too, I'm pretty damn isolated here :p
Any reason not too... Well I live in an area comparative to the american south for it's attitude to alternative lifestyles, and there are two very manly men builders downstairs :smalltongue:

Ahhh, I see. I can understand that, yeah. I'm not out to anyone either, though being bi is a little less noticeable, generally, so it's not strictly analogous...

And I meant that if it makes you feel better to not have to deal with the builders, is there any reason to not hang out in your room all day? :P

[HMS Sophia]

And I meant that if it makes you feel better to not have to deal with the builders, is there any reason to not hang out in your room all day? :P

Not... really? They go at 4, so I could do housework between then and when fam returns...

I guess it's not ^^ time to crack out the nice clothes

Oh, also, general news I have apparently lost 8 inches off my waist in the last 6 months and I can now wear a rather fantastic pair of size 12 jeans. :smallbiggrin:

[SiuiS]

Pics? I wanna see! :O

And good to see you're feeling better Jormengand *hugs* :smallsmile:

(Also: New avatar! Now with magic rainbow sword! :smallbiggrin:)

Killer sword!


I got asked if I had native american blood yesterday, just completely out of the blue, the first thing this woman had said to me.
It isn't the first time, but I really don't know how to respond to this (other than 'no'). Is this an overly nosey question? Am I just being over-sensitive to people talking too me :smalltongue:

There's nothing bad about it, I just find it odd. I guess it just goes in the pile along with "Where are you from?" (Brighton) "No, where's your family from" (Ireland or Wales), "Are you Greek/Turkish/insert other Mediterranean nation?" (No).:smallamused:

Hi again!

Yeah it's nosey. But people, y'know? Breslin down barriers sometimes involves pretending they aren't there.


Hi everyone, the meetup was really great, tons of awesome people and fun games and everything and I presented the entire meetup and there were barely any screw ups and it was very affirming. :smallsmile:

Also met up with Helio yesterday and she did my make up for the very first time and just walking around with her through London like that felt great. :smallsmile:

*hugs for everyone*

:O coooooooool

Pics! Pics! Pics!

[Lady Serpentine]

Oh, also, general news I have apparently lost 8 inches off my waist in the last 6 months and I can now wear a rather fantastic pair of size 12 jeans. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, nice! Congratulations! :smallbiggrin:

Oh, also, I can't remember if we've talked before now, sooooo... Just in case, nice to meet you! :smallsmile:

[HMS Sophia]

Oh, nice! Congratulations! :smallbiggrin:

Oh, also, I can't remember if we've talked before now, sooooo... Just in case, nice to meet you! :smallsmile:

I don't believe we have, so nice to meet you too ^^
And thanks :smallbiggrin:

[Lauren]

Hey, better that than something that'll mess up the keyboard! :smallbiggrin:

True that.


Eww.. D:
Lucky potato isn't as hard to clean up as liquid, which would also damage your computer.

Yeah, it was sort of revolting, but at least now my monitor is clean.


Both it is, then. ^_^ *hugs and curls up next to with a large tin of cookies*

Room for one more in that snuggle pile?

[Skeppio]

Room for one more in that snuggle pile?

Snuggle pile? :D

[HMS Sophia]

Room for one more in that snuggle pile?

I certainly won't complain ^^

[Castaras]

:O coooooooool

Pics! Pics! Pics!

There's a couplea pics in the UKitp thread with various people in it. :smallbiggrin:

[Mynxae]

Relationship problems/confusion:

So I've been dating my current boyfriend, Aaron, for nearly three weeks now and y'know, he's great. Not amazing in the physical features department (crooked teeth, lisp) and he's very excitable, but also able to get down/depressed very easily (the second he thinks I might break up with him he begs me not to leave him) but he's also very loving and caring (willing to help me out with my mental issues/disorders etc). Sounds like he's a nice guy kinda, yeah?

Yet my mind is so confused if I like him (not quite at the 'love' stage yet, obviously), or if I even want to see him/want him around. I don't even know.. I've asked friends for advice and gotten practically nothing apart from 'talk to him' but I don't because of aforementioned reason of he'll beg me stay with him and guilt me into it, which I'd hate. So I'm wondering if any of you nice ladies and gentlemen could help me. :smallfrown: