[PF] Witch - Ill Omen

[Barstro]

I'm playing a Witch in a Pathfinder game. I want to demonstrate to the GM just how powerful the Witch is so the fights will become more challenging.

Standard Witch Hexes;


Misfortune (Su): The witch can cause a creature within 30 feet to suffer grave misfortune for 1 round. Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result…

Cackle (Su): Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of a… misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

Using this combination, the enemy will need to roll twice and take the worse result every time. The trick is to bean the Will Save for Misfortune.

Level 1 Spell


Ill Omen: (No Saving Throw) On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result.

That almost guarantees that the Misfortune will hit, but the question is how to make sure that the enemy does not "waste" Ill Omen by taking some other roll prior to using the Misfortune Hex.

My thoughts;
1) Have party member be a Witch can cast it. (no other witch is in my group)
2) Ready the action to cast it just before my next turn. (Readying would change my spot in the order, so that would still fail)
3) Have another member UMD a wand. Nobody has a high enough UMD to even get to 50%

Anybody else have an idea on how to guarantee that Ill Omen will still be in effect before using Misfortune? I don't understand crafting enough to know if it would be possible to make something that can cast the spell as a move or swift action (is Command Word an action?), or if it can be made so someone else can cast it as a standard action without UMD (seems like one hell of a weapon for a First Level Spell use activation).

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Novawurmson]

Problem being that Ill Omen (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ill-omen) is a standard action, as is misfortune. So that's two rounds of work. Note that Ill Omen is also a mind-affecting enchantment, both of which won't work on all creature types. Spell resistance still applies (most important at high levels) and the target can spent a move action to drop one of them.

Now, quickened ill omen into misfortune is pretty brutal, but I feel like quickened misfortune into, say Agony (nauseated is such a painful status condition) or Sleep would be more useful - taking someone completely out of a fight > just making them reroll.

A lesser metamagic rod of quicken (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-quicken) would help, but that's 35,000g, so it's a mid-game option, like quicken itself.

[Person_Man]

I would quibble with your premise.

It looks like the Hexes have the same basic math as the D&D Next Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic. Roll 2d20, take the higher or lower of the two results. Here's the math:
http://i.imgur.com/8d8AT6c.png

So it basically translates into a +1 to +5 bonus or penalty. The bonus/penalty is low when the target starts out with a high chance of success or failure, and the bonus/penalty is higher when the d20 needed for success approaches 50%.

That's strong, and it's nice that it can apply to a broad array of different rolls. But it's not that big of a deal in a 3.5/PF setting. I'm sure we can generate a long list of spells and effects that impose similarly large penalties. Bestow Curse, Doomspeach, Ray of Enfeeblement, just knocking an enemy Prone, etc.

[Arbane]

The usual way to manage the Ill Omen/Misfortune one-two is with an Improved Familiar who can use wands. If you're low level, that might not be an option yet, and drawing attention to your familiar is usually a bad idea, anyway.



That's strong, and it's nice that it can apply to a broad array of different rolls. But it's not that big of a deal in a 3.5/PF setting. I'm sure we can generate a long list of spells and effects that impose similarly large penalties. Bestow Curse, Doomspeach, Ray of Enfeeblement, just knocking an enemy Prone, etc.

I'd argue it is a pretty big deal, since Misfortune applies to just about ALL d20 rolls the target's going to be making, and witches' specialty is Save-Or-Cry effects. It's not a game-winner on its own, but it's a great set-up for the game-winning powers. And it never runs out of uses.

And yes, Bestow Curse can be about as good. Use both. :smallbiggrin:

[Barstro]

Problem being that Ill Omen (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ill-omen) is a standard action, as is misfortune. So that's two rounds of work.

I merely implied that, but didn't state it. That is the actual issue. I cannot cast Ill Omen in round 1, and expect the enemy to sit there until my next turn comes. I either need to find a way to do it all in one round, or else have a teammate go just before me so that the enemy has no chance to act.



Now, quickened ill omen into misfortune is pretty brutal, but I feel like quickened misfortune into, say Agony (nauseated is such a painful status condition) or Sleep would be more useful - taking someone completely out of a fight > just making them reroll.

Oh, it's to do that as well. Misfortune is the same as Ill Omen, but Cackle makes it last for many rounds. This would cause the double rolling to keep happening, in case Slumber or Agony doesn't work.


A lesser metamagic rod of quicken (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-quicken) would help, but that's 35,000g, so it's a mid-game option, like quicken itself.

Yes, I had thought of that one too, but the price tag made me dismiss it right away. Once I'm that high, another character will have high enough UMD to use a wand anyway.


I would quibble with your premise.


Nah, you agree with my premise, just disagree with my conclusion. I think going from a 50% chance to 75% chance is significant. Most of those result in more than a +2, and that is for EVERY roll (Attack, Save, etc.). Makes all future Hexes easier more likely. Makes it so the BBEG almost never crits.

I understand that there are other effects that can do this, but this is something the Witch can do every fight*

*If I can find a way to get that spell on an item. Anyone know how much it would cost to make an item that the otherwise standing-around Cleric can use just before my turn?