[PF] best Paladin Archetypes [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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ArqArturo

2013-07-19, 02:16 PM

And now, my character.

I've been meaning to make a paladin (after my foray into my crazy inquisitor/monk), the setting is more or less steampunk in feel, technology is just starting to fuse with magic, and I was thinking that maybe a paladin/gunslinger might work, since the Holy Gun archetype gives you very little grit. But, seeing that we are short of melee, I guess I'm going to go full pally to work as both a tank and the face.

The party so far is:

Dwarf barbarian with the armored juggernaut archetype
Human wizard
Dhampir Druid
Half elf gunslinger/alchemist
Halfling sorcerer of the elemental bloodline
Me

Which is the best paladin archetype to fill as a tank? The way I look at it, I think the hospitalier might work, since we lack some healing.

BWR

2013-07-19, 03:52 PM

Hospitlar is an excellent healer. Divine Defender is strictly better for pumping AC, and it helps other people's AC as well.
Sacred Shield is probably the best tank, since it can actually redirect damage done to others to itself.

AttilaTheGeek

2013-07-19, 04:05 PM

I was going to say either Divine Defender or Sacred Shield. Don't forget to pass on the Cloak of Resistance - crazy, I know, but your saves are still decent without it. Instead, take a Cloak of 50% Miss Chance, because otherwise touch attacks are a huge problem for you. "Oh, you give yourself total cover and immunity to attacks with your tower shield? Sure thing. Enervation."

Kudaku

2013-07-19, 04:32 PM

I have a 9th level charisma-focused hospitaler paladin in my RotRL campaign and the sheer durability of the class is amazing. Fey Foundling adds significantly to LoH's d6s and preparing Hero's Defiance more or less means that even a lucky x3 ogre hook crit or a natural 1 on a disintegrate save won't take you down.

That said, his offense sucks. Only one Smite Evil till lvl 7 and prioritizing charisma along with strength means you struggle to keep up on the damage front. He was absolutely loving his character build up till about level 6-7, but now he is struggling a bit to stay relevant - the build relies on charging in and getting all the attention, relying on highish AC and swift action LoHs to soak up damage, in turn allowing the other less durable characters (magus and ninja) to step in and do their thing. However, when he hits the target for 18 damage on average per full attack (assuming all hits) and the magus does 84 damage average using spell combat and shocking grasp, it's hard to keep the "attention" of whatever nasty they're trying to beat down.

Another more offensive option is vanilla paladin with the Oath of Vengeance... Th oath means you can burn LoH charges to sprinkle liberal amounts of Smite Evil around and quite frankly, the damage output of a smite-happy paladin is terrifying.

The latter is very much a case of "best Defense is a good Offense" - swift action LoHs means you can soak up a lot of damage while the use of a power attacking 2handed weapon and the Smite Evil bonuses on to hit and damage means you're putting out enough hurt that no one can afford to ignore you.

BWR

2013-07-19, 06:14 PM

Pally in my group is very fond of both Hero's Defiance and Paladin's Sacrifice. She's saved the lives of the party and her own more times than I can count with those two spells.

As for doing things other than smiting evil and tanking/healing, pick up Power Attack. It is still the no-brainer feat of melee in PF. The nice thing about PF paladin is the swift actions lay on hands. It means you don't necessarily need a shield and high AC to be a good tank. You deal enough damage and people will attack you.

Yeah, smiting paladins can deal serious amounts of damage. Power Attack, elven curveblade and smite and our pally deals +35 damage, +49 if it's evil undead, dragon or outsider, with a critical range of 15-20/x2.
Suffice to say when evil things show their head, they generally go down hard when the paladin gets near.

ArqArturo

2013-07-19, 09:10 PM

I completely forgot about the elven court-er, curveblade. But, wouldn't taking the Falchion be just as effective? Then again, the curveblade is a d10...

Now, I just asked the DM, and he told he might be able to bring a few PrCs from 3.5 to Pathfinder, so... Fist of Raziel might be a good choice for a Paladin with Oath of Vengeance:D ? I still haven't seen if it could work, and I've yet to show him the PrC (as a bit of a background, he did let me use Lion of Talisid druid in a Dragonlance game), but in the case he doesn't, would the Holy Vindicator be worth it?.

watchwood

2013-07-19, 09:11 PM

If you're going to go for a healing focus, take the Mystical Healer feat as well. It's a substantial boost to your healing output, and it scales with your level. You can also consider items to boost your smiting and channelling abilities, both of which your party will appreciate.

Second the Hospitaler build in general, honestly. The Healing output you can get with it is pretty intense.

ArqArturo

2013-07-19, 09:13 PM

If you're going to go for a healing focus, take the Mystical Healer feat as well. It's a substantial boost to your healing output, and it scales with your level. You can also consider items to boost your smiting and channelling abilities, both of which your party will appreciate.

In what book is Mystical Healer? I also see that Word of Healing might work.

Hylas

2013-07-19, 10:03 PM

In what book is Mystical Healer?

It's a 3rd party feat by Rite Publishing.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/rite-publishing/general-feats---3rd-party---rite-publishing/mystical-healer

To say the least, it's better than many healing feats, including greater mercy which only gives +1d6 for Lay on Hands, though it comes online later due to the Paladin having level-3 casting, but still very useful for fey foundling. Would not allow in my games in current form.

ArqArturo

2013-07-19, 10:36 PM

I'll see what can be done, because the DM doesn't look kindly on 3rd party publishing.

avr

2013-07-19, 10:41 PM

An Oradin (Paladin/Oracle[Life mystery]) is a different sort of meleer. It can keep others alive directly via the Life Link revelation and heal themselves w/Lay on Hands. With an oracle spell or two buffing them they can also mix it up in melee themselves.

grarrrg

2013-07-20, 12:12 AM

BWR

2013-07-20, 08:58 AM

Falchion is nice in that it doesn't require a feat. Paladins don't have that many feats to spare, so falchion is fine if you want high crit range. Our pally is an elf, so she gets curveblade as a Martial weapon instead of exotic. Phylactery of Positive Channeling is nice, since it increases your channeling by 2d6. Pcik up Greater Mercy (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/ultimateMagicFeats.html#_greater-mercy) and you're healing a decent amount.

navar100

2013-07-20, 11:30 AM

Any Archetype or Oath that trades away Divine Grace is Stay Away.

:smallbiggrin:

ArqArturo

2013-07-20, 02:05 PM

Well, this is what I have so far. It's a straightfoward build, but I think it's good. We all start at lvl 3, btw.

Half-Elf (Ancestral Weapon instead of Skill Focus, will take the Elven Curveblade) Paladin (Oath of Wrath) 2/Divine Oracle (Life Mystery, Tongues curse)

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 18 (With the +2 already assigned)

Feats:
Toughness
Extra Channel

I was also thinking of a Half-Orc, with the sacred tattoos instead of Ferocity, but I don't know if it's that effective.

BWR

2013-07-20, 05:03 PM

You can't pick up Extra Channel before paladin 4. Requires you to have Channel Energy. Extra Lay On Hands might be what you're looking for.

ArqArturo

2013-07-20, 05:08 PM

Well, I am a Paladin 2/Oracle 1, and with the Mystery of Life, that gives me the qualifications, right?.

Kudaku

2013-07-20, 06:49 PM

Yes it does, but only for your Oracle Channel - keep in mind that the channel energy pool is separate for each class. Since the Oracle's Channel will likely never go above 1d6 or 2d6, it might not be the best option to focus on that.

Extra Lay on Hands might be a safer bet - you can always retrain it when you feel more comfortable with your LoH total.

Edit: What revelations do you plan to pick up with Life Oracle? The Oradin typically goes Oracle for Life Link (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/life), not Channel Energy.

ArqArturo

2013-07-20, 07:06 PM

I think it would have to be Life Link, and the feat I'd take is Extra Lay on Hands instead.

Gullintanni

2013-07-21, 01:46 AM

One of the best Archetypes around for the PF paladin is the Sacred Servant.
It grants you access to a Domain at 4th level, augmenting your buffing ability (assuming you want to go Melee).

It also grants you some minor bonuses to various Paladin levels.

The real appeal though is in the access to the Planar Ally line of spells as no cost SLA's, that you can use once per week. The limiting factor here is that you can ask the called Ally to perform only "reasonable tasks". However; in the event that you're on a holy crusade, then asking a celestial ally to remain with you for the duration of the crusade would fall well within the scope of "reasonable", and thus, you gain a permanent celestial ally that you can change up to once per week.

This is helpful at all levels where it's available. At level 16 you get upgraded to Greater Planar Ally, and can summon a Planetar, who has 17HD and casts as a 16th level Cleric.

So, you spend one SLA at 16th level, and you gain access to 8th Level spells, and a combatant who's arguably mightier than you are. It's hard to get more bang for your buck out of a Paladin.

Whether or not it suits your character is up to you, but I thought I'd float the idea.

grarrrg

2013-07-21, 09:24 AM

Yes it does, but only for your Oracle Channel - keep in mind that the channel energy pool is separate for each class. Since the Oracle's Channel will likely never go above 1d6 or 2d6, it might not be the best option to focus on that.

The Extra Channel feat gives you "floating" uses of Channel Energy.
If/when the Paladin side gets Channel, then the Extra Channels can be used for that or for the Oracle Channel.
And if you're kinda crazy and take a level of Cleric as well, they can be applied to that Channeling as well, if you so choose.
So Oracle: 1+CHA/day
Paladin: (Lay-on-hands/2)/day
Extra Channel: +2/day of any Channel, decided at time used.

Edit: What revelations do you plan to pick up with Life Oracle? The Oradin typically goes Oracle for Life Link (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/life), not Channel Energy.

Life Link is the more important one, yes. But a level 1 Oracle only gets 1 Life Link at a time, so for a level 1 Oracle, Channel is just as useful.

Kudaku

2013-07-21, 09:39 AM

ArqArturo

2013-07-21, 01:23 PM

The Extra Channel feat gives you "floating" uses of Channel Energy.
If/when the Paladin side gets Channel, then the Extra Channels can be used for that or for the Oracle Channel.
And if you're kinda crazy and take a level of Cleric as well, they can be applied to that Channeling as well, if you so choose.
So Oracle: 1+CHA/day
Paladin: (Lay-on-hands/2)/day
Extra Channel: +2/day of any Channel, decided at time used.

That is awesome! So it's just a floating +2 Channel in whenever class I need?.

I usually get a red-alert whenever I hear the 'take a third class' whenever I'm deciding a class (my fear of the Fochlucan Lyrist in 3.5), but since this is PF and there's no more XP loss for multiclassing, I think it would be best to do so :D

So, I think the starting lineup would be this:

Half-Elf (Ancestral Weapon instead of Skill Focus, will take the Elven Curveblade, or the Falcata, both are good, but 1d10, man...) Paladin (Oath of Wrath) 2/Divine Oracle (Life Mystery, Tongues curse)

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 18 (With the +2 already assigned)

Feats:
Toughness
Extra Channel

And the final class progression, I think in terms of sheer power and optimization:

Glindarion Uldrimm, Shield of the Meek

Half-Elf (Ancestral Weapon) Paladin 8 (Archetype: Sacred Servant) Oracle 3 (Mistery of Life, Revelation: Life link, Combat Healer)/Holy Vindicator 9

FEATS:
1.- Toughness
A. Weapon.- Exotic Weapon Prof. (Elven Curveblade or Falcata)
3.- Extra Lay on Hands
6.- Alignment Channel
9.- Word of Healing
12.- Quicken Channel*
15.- Extra Channel
18.- Improved Critical

To get to Holy Vindicator, I think I'd get him to be Paladin 4/Oracle 3, and then full HV.

I placed that over Quicken Channel because I think it might be detrimental to the build, since Quicken Channel spends two uses of Channel Energy, and that means over four uses of Lay on Hands. Then again, I'm a CHA-based character, the score has to be high enough. I might ditch it in order to get Extra Channel Earlier.

And the background:

"Kill him! Slay him!" the townsfolk cried out. It was a sea of bloodlust and death, the town guards were barely keeping them in line, halberds in hand. Davos, the old knight, sighed in dissapointment. He looked at the small babe, wrapped in the wet cloth, 'how can such a tiny little thing spawn so much anger?' he though.

He looked over the townsfolk, their pitchforks raising up in the air. Their torches lighting the night, their shouts and lust for blood filling their minds. Have elves done so much damage to this village?

Davos cleared his throat "This child has done nothing to you! If you want to be angry, be angry at the elves! He is innocent"

The villagers became even more upset, epithets like 'old coot' and 'elf-lover' mixed with the shouts of anger. The guards became much more scared. Davos stepped inside the manor, guards closing the gates and the door of the manor as he stepped inside, his old armor clanking and crunching plate over plate with each step he took.

"Ser Davos" a guardsman said "The villagers will breach in eventually. They will kill the child... And anyone that's between Them and Him".

Davos looked at the guard with contempt, "And you prefer to offer the child to appease them? Is that what you're trying to say!?"

The guardsman stood silent, and looked away from Davos' stare "... It would make them spare our lives... Yours, however"

Davos said nothing, but later on, he ordered his horse, Dominic, to be readied, and some supplies to be placed in its pack. The villagers already had broken through the walls, even a few guardsmen joined them.

Davos rode away from the town, now engulfed in the madness, and never looked back.

It had been several years after that. Glindarion, now grown man, had learned from the priests that Davos rode hard to avoid the guardsmen, now turned into marauding bandits. He heard the reason of why the townsfolk hated the elves so much: That during the Age of the Spell-Void, elves had gone mad turned into nothing but insane murderers, and preyed on those that encroached their forests and marshlands, and therefore, the stories of crazed elven marauders stuck. He learned well to use Davos' armor and weapons, things the priests kept as heirlooms to be given to Glindarion (Note: my starting equipment at lvl 3, nothing really that fancy :p), he learned to understand, however, that something was preying on the fears and hatred of others. Rumors of devil-cults and marauding fiends had begun to circulate, and after years of martial training, Glindarion decided to set off to the town in which all started, in order to gather any clues as to find what happened.

The town was in ruins, the people either left or had gone, but he did find someone. A druid, looking unto rumors of the animals, of an unnatural thing spoiling the lands.

And how he looks:

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/stf/tdytjosjdmnbvcertfgdfghjimsdf.png

grarrrg

2013-07-21, 08:41 PM

That is very interesting, I was not aware they FAQ'ed Extra Channel. Thanks for updating me :smallsmile:

Link to FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o82)
The Exalted of the Society trait (+1/day Channel) would work the same way.

Half-Elf (Ancestral Weapon) Paladin 8 (Archetype: Sacred Servant) Oracle 3 (Mistery of Life, Revelation: Life link, Combat Healer)/Holy Vindicator 9

I'm not sure that the Bloodrain ability from Vindicator 9 is really worth it.
Might be better to drop it and take an extra level of Oracle. It would boost your casting to 10th level > 5th level spells.
Other than that, go to town.