questions about monk unarmed strike

[relytdan]

monk lvl 20 Large Huge Gargantuan Colossal
Unarmed Srike: 4d8 6d8 8d8 12d8
Imp US: 6d8 8d8 12d8 (???)
Su US: is this modifying by 2d6 or just adding 2d6 as additional damage?

Improved Unarmed Strike feat foe does not get A.o.O.

IMPROVED NATURAL ATTACK feat, increased by one category: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
if it deals 1d10 increase: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8,6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

Superior Unarmed Strike feat deal more damage with your unarmed strikes based on character lvl
3rd 1d4, 4th 1d6, 8th 1d8, 12th 1d10, 16th 2d6

[pyrese]

I'm not sure what all you are asking in your post. Could you clarify and expand a bit more?

[relytdan]

ok lets say I have a Large level 20 monk. according to the charts
the base unarmed strike is 4d8 and would progress to 12d8 for colossal
then with the feats improved natural attack, improved unarmed strike and Superior Unarmed Strike it appears that the base due to improved natural attack strike then progresses from 4d8 to 6d8, then if I am understanding correct Superior Unarmed Strike either improves it again by 2d6 or adds 2d6 as extra damage..
having looked at some of the ultimate monk builds that claim XXD20, I am not seeing how it is done by RAW

[Immabozo]

at level 20, a monk's unarmed strike (for a medium character) is 1D20.

Now, as for increase beyond 12D6, I do believe the next step in 16D6

[relytdan]

at level 20, a monk's unarmed strike (for a medium character) is 1D20.

Now, as for increase beyond 12D6, I do believe the next step in 16D6

PHB pg 40. 2d10 for medium
Table 3–11: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage
20th - 2d8 4d8
so unless I am missing something I do not see 1D20 for medium, unless your converting the 2d10 to 1d20 which admittedly is not exactly the same,
so as I am dealing with a Large Monk 4D8 eventually would goto 16D8 - then that leaves the superior strike 2D6 - is this damage bonus after, the unarmed attack (4d8+2d6) or a modification to the damage creating something like 5D8 vs 4D8...

[Immabozo]

PHB pg 40. 2d10 for medium
Table 3–11: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage
20th - 2d8 4d8
so unless I am missing something I do not see 1D20 for medium, unless your converting the 2d10 to 1d20 which admittedly is not exactly the same,
so as I am dealing with a Large Monk 4D8 eventually would goto 16D8 - then that leaves the superior strike 2D6 - is this damage bonus after, the unarmed attack (4d8+2d6) or a modification to the damage creating something like 5D8 vs 4D8...

Well, I am no monk expert and it had been forever since I glanced at the table. Also, 2nd ed Baldurs Gate 2 has it listed as 1D20, so that doesn't help either, haha.

as far as superior unarmed strike, it sounds to me like sneak attack-like damage. But I'm not sure at all.

[Yajirobe]

I think 1d20 was the damage for monks on 3.0

The problem with that was kinda like speccing lightning on Diablo 2. Hell of a high damage, but the range was so big that you risked "losing a spell" when it did 1 damage plus adjustments.

[Immabozo]

I think 1d20 was the damage for monks on 3.0

The problem with that was kinda like speccing lightning on Diablo 2. Hell of a high damage, but the range was so big that you risked "losing a spell" when it did 1 damage plus adjustments.

true, very true.

[Lord Vukodlak]

A large 20th level monk is 4d8 with improved natural attack it becomes 6d8.

Superior Unarmed Strike does nothing because it can't stack with a monk's unarmed ability.

[Karnith]

Superior Unarmed Strike does nothing because it can't stack with a monk's unarmed ability.
Well, it would normally improve a monk's unarmed strike damage as if the monk were four levels higher, but that ability doesn't advance beyond 20th level. So while it has no effect in this instance, it normally does improve a monk's unarmed strike damage.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Well, it would normally improve a monk's unarmed strike damage as if the monk were four levels higher, but since that ability doesn't advance beyond 20th level, it has no effect in this instance.

The four levels higher always annoyed me can't they just say it improves the damage one step? Or you deal unarmed damage as a monk one size category larger.

[animewatcha]

Then, you get to deal with how the wording is on the increase in die or size category ( see fist of the forest prestige classa and wild savagery feat )

[Zergrusheddie]

Well, let's see:

Assume effective level 20 Monk: 2d10
Half-Giant Psychic Warrior/Monk uses Expansion to become Gargantuan.
That's 3 size modifiers.
Improved Natural Attack makes 4.
Greater Mighty Wallop has cast by a level 20 Wizard adds 4, pushes it to 8.

The chart for 2d10 only goes up to 16d8, which is 5 bumps. However, look at the chart; there is a clear pattern. You double the previous category. So 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8. Assuming this continues:

4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d6 -> 32d6 -> 48d6

Superior Unarmed Strike either increases damage if you have no Monk levels or adds effective Monk levels, like a Monk's Belt.

Cheers.
-Eddie

[shaikujin]

Doesn't a CL 20 Greater Mighty Wallop give 5 effective size increase instead of 4? (it's +1 size increase for every 4 CL, I think)

However, it has a clause that only allows a max effective increase to Colossal. That means if you start with Gargantuan, it'll still increase your effective size to Colossal, and not by 4 levels.

Was there an errata to Races of the Dragon or the Mighty Wallop spell?



Once you hit Colossal, you can add other effective size increase that doesn't have a limit (provided DM allows Colossal+ and beyond). Eg:

+1 from a normal Mighty Wallop (spell. depends if it's considered a separate spell and stacks with GM.Wallop)
+1 from Sharptooth (spell in dracomicon)
+1 from Earth hammer (spell in races of stone)
+1 from Warshaper 1 (PrC)
+1 from Improved Natural Attack (feat)
+1 from Battlefist (warforged component)
+1 from Ectoplasmic Fist (quori shard)
+1 from Empty Hand Mastery (OA, and depends if text trumps table)

etc (there are more on the ultimate monk page).

If DM allows the above to stack/progress effective size increase beyond what's printed in DMG, and you have 20 effective monk levels, damage would be :

12d8 (effective Colossal size from GM.Wallop) -> 16d8 -> 24d8 -> 32d8 -> 48d8 -> 64d8 -> 96d8 -> 128d8 -> 192d8

If you are able to start with Colossal+ size (only available to epic dragons by RAW):
16d8 (Colossal+) -> 24d8 -> 32d8 -> 48d8 -> 64d8 -> 96d8 -> 128d8 -> 192d8 -> 256d8

[Lateral]

Yes, after the 12d6 from Colossal the next step up is 16d6, which could be achieved with Improved Natural Weapon on your Unarmed Strike. However, as others have said, if you already have the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability, Superior Unarmed Strike does not use that progression- instead, it advances your Unarmed Strike four levels, but since it doesn't progress past 20th, it doesn't do anything for you anymore.