Dvati Help Required (Build?)

[Hrimhari]

Ok so me and a fellow player have decided rather then our previous plans to go with the Dvati and play one of each of the twins (A boy and girl, it says identical and there are identical twins who are boy and girl)

So the class I am thinking of being a Gestalt of a Factotum and a Bard due to my love of the bard and the Factotum because.. why the heck not!

How should I set up its feats, spells, equipment to better play this duo.

Now my partner in crime favors Rogues more often then not, so is there anyway to give it some rogue-like features? Like the stealing, the trap detection, maybe even Sneak Attack (That +3 to flanking looks yummy)

But I need help building this together so its balanced for two people (Yes I am copying the sheet over so we both have a sheet)

[kreenlover]

Ok, can you go with swordsage? or other martial classes?

Because those are awesome for dvati. You get unlimited resources that are more powerful, allowing you to use your two sets of actions to spam your best effects all day long.

They also net sneak attack, and you can have two stances going at once.

As for feats, I'd suggest anything that benefitted both classes. Did the DM give you the say-so on this build? because each character only gets half the HP, and gestalting it won't help that. There is a reason the Dvati is meant for one player. But, if you have the go ahead, then I'd suggest sword-sage

[Hrimhari]

Nither of us have experience with the Swordsage and we have a Warblade/Swordsage already in the group and he does pretty well on our damage output.

So Factotum/Bard is kinda set in for us.
The DM did give the go ahead just because he wants to see how we play this (Or he wants to watch me and her fail epically, I don't know which)
My favorite style of playing is when not in combat I am the face, the guy who sweet talks or straight out BSes us out of trouble.

She likes the Rogue more often then not, likes the sneaky style and cunning. Both of which can fit the Bard/Factotum enough for us to try the style.

[kreenlover]

Ok, so in that case I would suggest Chameleon, but that is out, so then I would say straight up Factotum. Fill your feat slots with Font of Inspiration to get awesomesauceness, and you are basically good to go

[Hrimhari]

Ok, Well we are a Gestalt build of Bard and Factotum but Font makes a lot of sense.

[animewatcha]

You do realise that both of the identical twins of the dvati are the same class, same feats, same resources, etc as if they were same person ( save for specific exceptions ). This is harder for the factotum ( drawing from same pool of inspiration points ) and bard ( read the section on spellcasting ).

[Hrimhari]

Oh I know.

[kreenlover]

Hmm. Maybe you could throw in a few Bardic music feats, or other useful things, but I am thinking that you mostly want to go Font.

If you want some rogue-like stuff, then the Shadow Hand Maneuvers, maybe the Dark template? Really lets you sneak well.

[Skrobo]

First of all, it's extremely rare for identical twins to be of different sexes. It involves a gene mutation and the female counterpart will suffer from Turner Syndrome. This would have an effect on the female's physiology, something that is against the Dvati idea of "2 identical bodies".

Obviously, there is magic in the world, so who cares about genetics?

In regards to the class selection, Swordsage is where you want to be. It plays beautifully with Dvati's abilities and weaknesses. If you want a more roguish approach select the Shadow Hard discipline. Keep in mind that your halves will not have a great deal of hit points.

Finally, I would advice against playing a Dvati with another player. Most of the time either you or the other player will be forced to do nothing on their turn. Playing once every 2-3 turns (and rarely once per combat) is not fun.

[lycantrope]

How would a gestalt dvati bard/factotum work? Don't you only take one of the class's features each level?

I second the tob classes recommendation, but clearly that's not what you're going for. That said, dvati do very very well when they don't need to cast spells, and even alternating levels between bard and factotum enough to get the good music abilities would major damage in combat with the way non casting dvatis break the action economy.

Just to illustrate the point, the evil campaign I'm dming has a dvati swordsage 1 crusader 1, and I am certain that he could solo any content within 2 cr of him, as long as it wasn't long range. Party tank and healer rolled into one. I'm sure the power will diminish as difficulty advances, but it's been very impressive so far.

[Hrimhari]

First. That is only twins of humans, who knows about the Dvati (Magic also counts)

Second. I have heard swordsage so much that I might actually give this a shot.

Third. Each twin gets a full set of actions per turn so both twins can attack on the same turn. The only time they would need to wait is if they where casting spells.

Fourth. Class Features: A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Now I did find this on DandD.com so take it with a grain of salt.

[lycantrope]

First. That is only twins of humans, who knows about the Dvati (Magic also counts)

Second. I have heard swordsage so much that I might actually give this a shot.

Third. Each twin gets a full set of actions per turn so both twins can attack on the same turn. The only time they would need to wait is if they where casting spells.

Fourth. Class Features: A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Now I did find this on DandD.com so take it with a grain of salt.

If that's how gestalt works (I've never played or looked into it) then your combo would be very useful for a party. I'd focus on the bard half, rather than factotum, as far as feats go, just because you'll get more mileage out of buffing yourself and the rest of the party with super music than you will with a wealth of inspiration. Wouldn't hurt to take a few instances of font feat at level 1, though.

[Snowbluff]

Here are the gestalt rules. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)

Here is a communique between the author of the original text and a forum member (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7815509&postcount=32), as the race was altered without his involvement in the Dragon Compendium. Show it to your DM.

[Hrimhari]

I saw that I already planned too. The way the Original intent seemed to be was two characters very interconnected. I also worked on a Homebrew of the Royal Twins from Hellboy 2 The Golden Army because of how the Dvati felt like they should have been separate but interlocked. (Check it out on the Homebrew Forum)

[Invader]

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just pay a set of twins instead of dvati with all the nonsense that goes with them.

[Alex12]

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just pay a set of twins instead of dvati with all the nonsense that goes with them.
That sounds like something better for what the OP wants. Maybe see if the DM will allow some homebrew feats for sharing certain effects within a certain range or something.

Dvati are great for certain things.
They're not good casters/manifesters. At all.
They're not typically good tanks, since each twin only gets half the hp you roll for (though both twins do get full hp from Con).
But for classes like the rogue, or certain swordsage builds, they're fantastic.
They can flank with themselves, get bonuses for doing so, and violate the action economy hard. A Dvati rogue (especially if they got the Island of Blades stance through either multiclassing or feats) is a Sneak Attack monster.