Immediate actions, how do they work?

[kharmakazy]

One of our players failed a reflex save, and decided to use an immediate action teleport away from the door.

Can he do that? He isn't flat footed, but can he teleport away before knowing what exactly is going to happen?

Does the fact that he had to make a reflex save let his character know that there is danger and give him the ability to use his teleport?

He as a player knows there was a trap, but does his character know there is danger before the trap actually goes off?

[georgie_leech]

One of our players failed a reflex save, and decided to use an immediate action teleport away from the door.

Can he do that? He isn't flat footed, but can he teleport away before knowing what exactly is going to happen?

Does the fact that he had to make a reflex save let his character know that there is danger and give him the ability to use his teleport?

He as a player knows there was a trap, but does his character know there is danger before the trap actually goes off?

Immediate actions take place *before* the event in question occurs. So upon triggering a trap, before the reflex save, he could teleport away. He should not, however, be able to dodge like that after rolling the save; in effect, by rolling the save he is choosing not to teleport away but instead try to dodge on his own.

[kharmakazy]

Immediate actions take place *before* the event in question occurs. So upon triggering a trap, before the reflex save, he could teleport away. He should not, however, be able to dodge like that after rolling the save; in effect, by rolling the save he is choosing not to teleport away but instead try to dodge on his own.

The problem is, how would his character know to teleport away before the event occurs? He doesn't know it's going to happen.

[Renen]

They work... immediately *YEHHHHHHHHH*

Edit: I see what he means. He means that once you tell the player to make a save, he can make a save, or choose to teleport. If he makes the save that fails it means he got hit. As soon as the dice show failed save, means he already got hit by that trap, unless its a delayed one where he falls into a pit for a few seconds.

[karkus]

Just pick whenever the hell you want your Immediate Action to take place. That's when it takes place.

I'm using DarkOrange for that because I am only slightly kidding. It can take place at any time, even when it's not your turn (see Barbarian (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Barbarian) Rage for an example).

[Fates]

The problem is, how would his character know to teleport away before the event occurs? He doesn't know it's going to happen.

He may use the immediate action after learning that he has to roll the save, but before actually rolling the save. As soon as he rolls it, it is assumed that whatever effect has already taken place. He may still use the immediate action to teleport after rolling his save, but he will still has been subject to the spell's effect.

[Carth]

The problem is, how would his character know to teleport away before the event occurs? He doesn't know it's going to happen.

He doesn't necessarily know what's happen when he's making the reflex save to dodge, either. By taking the immediate action to teleport, he's effectively replacing jumping out of the way with teleporting out of the way.

[Renen]

He may use the immediate action after learning that he has to roll the save, but before actually rolling the save. As soon as he rolls it, it is assumed that whatever effect has already taken place. He may still use the immediate action to teleport after rolling his save, but he will still has been subject to the spell's effect.


Yeh pretty much what I said in my edit.
Imagine reflex save for an arrow flying at u
OOC, you know you failed a save because dice told you
IC, you know because you have an arrow in your shoulder. Too late to port away.

[HalfQuart]

4e makes it simpler by having both an Immediate Interrupt and an Immediate Reaction that differentiate whether the action happens before or after the trigger. I think 3.5 generally behaves like an Immediate Interrupt, unless the text indicates otherwise... so in the OP example, when you say: X happens, roll a Reflex save -- the player could then choose to use the teleport-away thing (Abrupt Jaunt?). But if he actually rolls the reflex save, then he's choosing not to use the immediate action. It is quite possible that there are immediate action abilities that say something like "when you fail a saving throw..." or "when you make a die roll and dislike the result..." that you could use in these circumstances, but without that specific language, I'd say definitely no.

[Trasilor]

I have to disagree with most posters...

Take the following example:
A level 1 wizard and a 20ft pit trap. The player opens a door and the DM asks for a reflex save. The wizard fails his save and begins to plummet.

By the poster's logic, he cannot cast feather fall - an immediate interrupt spell - because he "chose" to make a reflex save instead of casting.

[CRtwenty]

By the poster's logic, he cannot cast feather fall - an immediate interrupt spell - because he "chose" to make a reflex save instead of casting.

Incorrect. The main problem in the original post is that the character used his action after he had failed his saving throw. Which in the example means he got hit by some sort of attack, like an arrow. He could still use his action to teleport, but at that point it's pointless since the damage has already been done.

In your situation the consequences for failing the save are less severe, the Wizard is simply falling into a pit trap. Casting Feather Fall doesn't change the fact that he still failed the save, it just lessens the impact of that failed save. If this Wizard was the character in the first example he could also use his Teleport to escape the pit trap before hitting the bottom, since the consequences for a failed save are "you fall into a pit" not "there is an arrow sticking out of you".

In short, by choosing to roll a saving throw first the character has to accept the consequences for failure, whatever they may be. This does not mean he couldn't use an Immediate Action, just that by rolling the save he can no longer use it until the Saving Throw resolves.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I think the issue lies in this question, are the consequences of failure immediate? If you fail a reflex save against a fireball the fireball has already hit you, its to late to teleport away. If you fail a reflex save against a pit trap it takes a second or so to actually hit bottom.

[TuggyNE]

I have to disagree with most posters...

Take the following example:
A level 1 wizard and a 20ft pit trap. The player opens a door and the DM asks for a reflex save. The wizard fails his save and begins to plummet.

By the poster's logic, he cannot cast feather fall - an immediate interrupt spell - because he "chose" to make a reflex save instead of casting.

As noted, this is incorrect; the consequence for failing a Reflex save in this case is not actually "take 2d6 falling damage" but "you begin to fall". There is then ample opportunity, now that you are falling, to take an immediate action and cast feather fall. What's more, it's actually impossible to cast feather fall on a person that isn't falling (due to the Target line), so this is the only possible sequence of actions that includes casting it.