Telekinesis attacks

[Kazy]

Making a gauntlet with a permanent telekinesis spell on it. Just /how/ overpowered would it be for it to be able to deliver attacks (basic attacks determined by bab and str or dex)? With or without enchantments.
The range 'increment' wouldn't transfer to any kind of weapon held, only to the gauntlet or attacks made with it.

[TuggyNE]

That depends on the price assigned. It's too late at night for me to run the calculations, but TK should probably cost more than the guidelines say, off-hand.

[Kazy]

Guideline wise it would be 90K.

Price calculation:

(Spell level)*(Caster level)*2000 = (5)*(9)*2000 = 90000
[Thanks Just to Browse:smallredface:]

Just to clarify, I'm looking to do a, let's say, Flaming gauntlet, that can deliver the attacks at variable distance.
I was aiming towards a 'telekinetic disabler' (trip/disarm) to call it something.

[Drachasor]

The Ring of Telekinesis is 75k. That lets you use TK on command.

Using it with another stat besides Intelligence or Charisma, would definitely add to that price.

[Kazy]

That has nothing to do with what I asked. I'm asking if a gauntlet with magic properties (flaming) and telekinesis would be able to deliver attacks at a distance as if it were close range (full attack).

[Lightlawbliss]

Anything is possible if the DM allows it.

If I understand what your saying, you want to have a flaming fist flying around, hitting people? sounds kinda cool.

[sleepyphoenixx]

No it would not. Telekinesis is clearly defined and that's not one of it's abilities.
You could throw the weapon with telekinesis for base damage + flaming. No full attacks though and you can't be wearing it.

Edit: Everythings possible with houserules of course but that's a question for your DM.

[Psyren]

Pathfinder Psionics has some wording you may be able to leverage to make this work, from the TK Weaponmaster's Telekinetic Throw (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/telekinetic-weaponmaster#TOC-Telekinetic-Throw-Su-) ability. Just change it from "standard action" to "full-attack action" and grant iteratives.

[Inferno]

I think you want something like the Reach Gauntlets from MIC.
The printed version is attacks or rounds-per-day iirc, but i don't think they were super expensive so a continuous version might be viable.

[Urpriest]

Do you want to throw the gauntlet itself? If so, you'd be better off using build resources, rather than the gauntlet itself. Levels in Bloodstorm Blade for example.

Do you want to use Telekinesis to wield weapons and attack people with them? If so, Telekinesis already does that, though with Int or Cha rather than Str or Dex.

Do you want to attack with Telekinesis directly in some way? If so, how? How would you justify it in the fluff? How are you envisioning this? Telekinesis just moves things, it isn't an actual hand.

[Kazy]

Sleepy, there are many things that 'don't exist' in the spell descriptors, yet when enchanting an item the effect changes.

This is being so controversial heh.

What I want is a gauntlet which has enchantments like any other weapon does. That has telekinesis (or a similar spell) that makes you able to strike foes that are away from you (farther than your reach would allow). This would not, in any way, be considered as a 'throw' or a similar effect, It would just be a gauntlet that strikes as a gauntlet yet has massive reach.

For the people who have played Mortal Kombat 9; Kenshi has a move which does something similar to what I'd like the gauntlet to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YnGjF0Tbf0 0:15 in the video.

[Inferno]

Still sounds to me like MIC Reach Gauntlets to me, they aren't as good as I thought but their cheap (at 500gp).
They require you to be psionic and use 1pp/activation up to 3x/day for +5ft melee range until the end of your turn.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You'd have to houserule something.
Maybe get a permanent Thunderlance (SpC) effect enchanted to your gauntlet for a 20ft reach?
That would be 224,000gp per the guidelines which is a little much imo.
I'd probably price it around 80-100k, if that much, depending on how strong your build is.
Expensive, but you actually get the benefit of a 20ft reach.

A cheaper and less powerful option would be a continous Blood Wind (SS) enchantment.
8000gp per guidelines, 20ft range increment attacks but not actual reach.

[Urpriest]

Sleepy, there are many things that 'don't exist' in the spell descriptors, yet when enchanting an item the effect changes.

This is being so controversial heh.

What I want is a gauntlet which has enchantments like any other weapon does. That has telekinesis (or a similar spell) that makes you able to strike foes that are away from you (farther than your reach would allow). This would not, in any way, be considered as a 'throw' or a similar effect, It would just be a gauntlet that strikes as a gauntlet yet has massive reach.

For the people who have played Mortal Kombat 9; Kenshi has a move which does something similar to what I'd like the gauntlet to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YnGjF0Tbf0 0:15 in the video.

So you're imagining a Force Punch type thing? That doesn't have much to do with how Telekinesis works in D&D, which is why people are confused.

It's certainly conceivable, and there's probably an item that can do it. As mentioned, the Reach Gauntlets work on this sort of fluff, though they're relatively short range.

[Rubik]

Throwing and returning are both +1 enhancements, though you can only do this once per round.

Bloodstorm blade would allow you to do so with your gauntlets, though you'd have to ensure that you fluffed it as "throwing" long-distance telekinetic punches rather than detaching and throwing your arms.

[Drachasor]

If you don't mind not having it threaten beyond your normal reach, then I don't see this costing more than a few thousand gp + gauntlet enchantments, quite possibly less. That should be good for 50ft easy.

If you do want actually Reach and threatening in a huge area, then it will be outrageously expensive.

[Kazy]

I think you want something like the Reach Gauntlets from MIC.
The printed version is attacks or rounds-per-day iirc, but i don't think they were super expensive so a continuous version might be viable.

The idea is as good as the ones below, but considering the base reach is 5ft, the price would scale out of hand. Even when I have money to spend in this case, it's always better to spend it wisely.:smallsmile:


You'd have to houserule something.
Maybe get a permanent Thunderlance (SpC) effect enchanted to your gauntlet for a 20ft reach?
That would be 224,000gp per the guidelines which is a little much imo.
I'd probably price it around 80-100k, if that much, depending on how strong your build is.
Expensive, but you actually get the benefit of a 20ft reach.

A cheaper and less powerful option would be a continous Blood Wind (SS) enchantment.
8000gp per guidelines, 20ft range increment attacks but not actual reach.
Thunderlance is a really neat idea, but I was looking to enchant the gauntlet with different enhancement properties. If I were to pick the THunderlance option, I'm not quite sure how expensive a dissapearing, 1-20 foot reach, 'quick-draw-ey' flaming holy burst of divine rage lance +5 would be. (It'd definetely be a huge budget) That being said, if we take all things into consideration, it's a good 'comes-close' idea.

Regards Bloow Wind wouldn't it be much more expensive? Or is my price-fu wrong?

Spell level x CL x 2000g x Duration price.

2 x 3 x 2000g x 4 = 48kG

About the reach/range increment, I would like the reach, but as you guys have said, the price would go upwards ridiculously, specially if we choose to have a range that's even 1/4th of the TK base (190ft).

[Drachasor]

About the reach/range increment, I would like the reach, but as you guys have said, the price would go upwards ridiculously, specially if we choose to have a range that's even 1/4th of the TK base (190ft).

Even 60' reach would have an astronomical price on it, because it would allow huge opportunities for AoOs and hitting people with fair ease. Even 20' reach would not be extremely cheap -- if it is too cheap, then it is something everyone would want.

I think it is probably best to price this as a +X equivalent, rather than give it a fixed price. I feel like this might be a +2 or +3 equivalent to be able to strike and threaten within 20'. I shall have to think on it and compare it to similar effects (though spikes chains and size changes seem to the most ready comparison).

[Lightlawbliss]

something I see quickly is that 20 ft reach is a lot weaker to a colossal creature then to a medium and is a lot better for a fine creature then for eather of the above.

[gr8artist]

Pathfinder has a spell called "Blood Crow Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-crow-strike)" that allows monks to attack at range. You'd have to change some wording, but it's a 4th level spell, casting time 1 full round, that lets you make a full attack at medium range.

Your unarmed strikes gauntlet releases blasts of energy in the form of bolts of fire or glowing red crows, which fly instantaneously to strike your target. You can make unarmed strike gauntlet or flurry of blows attacks against the target as if it were in your threatened area; each successful attack deals damage as if you had hit it with your unarmed strike gauntlet, except half the damage is fire blunt and half is negative energy force damage (this negative energy does not heal undead). For example, if you are a 14th-level monk, you can use a flurry of blows to attack five times, creating one energy crow for each successful attack against the target, and dealing 2d6 points of damage (plus appropriate unarmed strike modifiers) with each crow.
Price on this is 4*7*1800 for a command word (standard action) usable at-will. You can cheapen it by limiting uses per day, assuming the full price is for 5 daily uses. (1/5 price for 1/day use, 2/5 price for 2/day, etc...). Now, since the ability allows a full-attack action, you can make whatever combat maneuvers you can normally make in place of a melee attack in a FaA (trip, disarm, etc.)
This, I think, is the closest you're going to get.

[Drachasor]

something I see quickly is that 20 ft reach is a lot weaker to a colossal creature then to a medium and is a lot better for a fine creature then for eather of the above.

It depends on how you word it the weapon.

A normal reach weapon doubles reach. If this quadrupled reach then it would be insane for a Colossal creature. If this weapon gave you the reach of a Gargantuan tall creature (20 ft), then it would be worthless. If it increased your natural reach by 15 ft, then it would still be awesome for everyone.

So, points of comparison:

A) Thrown Weapon with Returning and the feat that lets you use strength for to-hit. Bump it up to a +2 ability perhaps since you can use it for iterative attacks. Since we're talking about a gauntlet -- a fairly weak weapon, I'd be happy at just pricing it as a +2 bonus. Granted that it is more powerful than a Throwing+Returning weapon which is +2, but Throwing is pretty weak for a +1, and Returning is so-so.

B) Auto-loading Sling. That's a +1 bonus, basically. Dex to hit, Strength for damage. 50 ft range increment. Arguably a bit more could let you use strength to-hit instead. That would make it a +2.

C) Reachiness. Getting 10 foot reach is like a Spiked Chain but with worse damage. 20 ft reach is like being Enlarged with a Spiked Chain without the strength bonus, less damage, but no penalties either. But I think this is also best done with bonus equivalents. Seems like a +1 would be to double the reach of a weapon, so I think +2 is probably fair for a 20' reach -- though that almost seems too cheap -- thoughts?

A is just a bad way to go about it. We're using some rather poor options to base the price on and the result is a mediocre option.

So I'd say 50 ft range increment, Strength (or Dex) for Attack/Damage is fair for a +2 mod. Or 20 ft reach on a weapon for a +2. I'm more shaky on the pricing for the latter.

OP, I think you got people off on the wrong foot by starting with the whole telekinesis thing. Instead when talking about custom magical items focus on what the item does and its exact mechanics. That's far more helpful as a starting point.