Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread II: New Thread smell included!

[gr8artist]

First level entry would still be possible if you had a race or template that gave you the required feats.
Which means I just have to make a template that justifies 2 feats with a +1 or +0 CR adjustment.

Bred for Command
+0 adjustment
The modified creature comes from a lineage of commanders and generals, and was trained in the art of strategy from a young age.
The creature gains any teamwork feat for which he meets the prerequisites, as well as the combat expertise feat (even if he does not meet its prerequisites). If the modified creature has 7 or more hit dice, it may substitute leadership for either of these bonus feats. << alternatively, these feats could be chosen from a list, which would include some skill foci and knowledge-based feats >>
The creature gains a +1 bonus to intelligence and wisdom due to his education, and a -2 penalty to strength from lack of exercise.
The creature does not gain max HP at first level, and suffers a -1/2 levels penalty to his maximum health. (d8 would get 4 HP per level).

[Tanuki Tales]

Also, I have a general question about PrC qualifications.
If a PrC has a feat prerequisite, can you take the first level of that PrC at the level you gain that feat? For example, my current class (Master Strategist) has a 2 feat prerequisite, and then a special requirement (which a DM might allow to be included in a backstory). If you play a human (2 feats at first level) could you take the two feats, and make your first class level a PrC level?
If so, then it is functioning as intended. If not, then I'll have to come up with some adjustments.

If you grandfather in 3.5 flaws, then yes, you could do this.

[gr8artist]

I tell you what, going through those 36 stratagems and writing up a pair of abilities for each one is really off-putting.

[Phillammon]

I know the feeling...

[Tanuki Tales]

You...don't have to do all 36...?

You guys could pick just one of them and do something themed around that stratagem.

[gr8artist]

I know, but I really want to. I may consider dropping the number of abilities to 1/stratagem, and the number of stratagems known to 3/level +Int.

[Tanuki Tales]

By the by, I'm doing a Feat Point system write up and I'd appreciate some feedback on it so I can complete it in the next month. >.>

[Phillammon]

I feel too far invested at this point to turn around and change it. Also, I'll take a glance over it.

[Tanuki Tales]

Time for some run-downs.

I'm also discontinuing the practice of doing a separate grammar section in the run-downs. I'm just not that anal to comb through for the one or two words you misused or misspelled in entries, I don't find that part of the run-down enjoyable at all and it tends to be really time consuming on my part. If your grammar is particularly borked though, I'll make a mention of it.


Which stratagem is this based on?
Why not have the class just grant SA dice at every even level or have it stack with the entry class for determining SA damage?
Cracked Skulls does nothing as a class feature as Undead are no longer immune to SA.
I suggest renaming Diablo Strike to Diabolic Strike. Not anything wrong with the current name, just the change would match up with the terms from the game already in use.
Gigant Flame seems like it might just not be worth it. I mean, it caps out at 25 feet.
Hell's Kiss doesn't make too much sense to me. This class is specifically about boosting fire spells and adding fire damage to melee and doesn't really have a connection to Devils or social intrigue. That and it's a really weak class feature.
I feel like Igloo Crusher should also work against creatures with cold immunity.
Jeopardy of Goods is even more out of place than Hell's Kiss. This makes no sense thematically.
Shouldn't the extra dice for Fierce Assault be added for a natural 8?
Theft of Majesty is untyped, isn't mentioned on the table and I'm not exactly sure what it does exactly.
This class doesn't have a capstone.
Overall, I'm really underwhelmed by this prestige class. There's not enough synergy between the pyromancy and rogue abilities, you do nothing to mitigate the fact fire damage is the most commonly resisted in the game, there's not enough interesting class features and there is currently no reason to give up 7th-9th level spells to go into this class.



The Knowledge skill specifies which specific subdivisions apply to which monster types. It looks more professional if you change the prerequisites to reference the specific ones.
Strategic Awareness is kind of weak as a class feature. I'd suggest either increasing the bonus to Knowledge checks, tacking on another minor benefit or moving the class features around so something else is gained at the first level.
While you use the word "sneak attack", I think what you're looking for is the term "precision damage" in Calculated Strikes. Also, usually such DCs are something like "15+the creature's CR" or "10+the creature's Hit Dice".
Your example for Smart Movement doesn't match the rules text (you say 5 feet for every +2 Intelligence, but treat +3 Intelligence as if it grants 15 feet of movement bonus) and the limitation on it seems arbitrary. Movement in combat rarely has any real tactical benefit, so you'd be fine without that cap.
Accounted For is kind of weak for a class feature. This isn't going to be a prestige class taken by casters, so the likelihood of them having a 30 or higher in Intelligence isn't a reasonable one. I suggest making it their full Intelligence modifier as a bonus with that in mind.
All in all, I really like this prestige class. It's a far more polished and coherent entry than your last one and I could definitely see it as part of an Intelligence based melee build. Good job.

[ShiningStarling]

Thank you for your feedback Tanuki! I found that your points were solid, so I made some tweaks based on them. :smallsmile:

[gr8artist]

4 categories done, and I've nerfed the total number of stratagems known to 2 + 2/level. Additionally, you can experiment with stratagems, gaining a number of temporary stratagems known equal to your Int mod, which last for 1 day. Doing so takes 1 hour.
It's an attempt at a class that focuses not on self-improvement, but on granting benefits to a large number of creatures.

Edit: Also, my win-streak has been broken.

[Tanuki Tales]

Proposed name
Theme


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table


I, Construct
Constructs


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation




It's that time again. Maybe I'll finally see something I suggest win. :smallwink:

[Phillammon]

Send in the Clones: Replication and Duplication

[Adam1949]

Because I Love You: Love, in all different forms.

Totally am not just gonna make a Yandere class/race/something, nope nope

[Phillammon]

That reminds me, what's the current ruling on resubmissions?

(Also, if you do so, I swear I'm going to go full Tsukiko with my entry)

[malonkey1]

Transform, and ROLL OUT: Transformation, robotic or otherwise.

[Phillammon]

Edit: Also, my win-streak has been broken.

Sorry about that, by the way.

[gr8artist]

Sorry about that, by the way.
Nah, Phil, you earned it. The level of competition is getting intense.

It's that time again. Maybe I'll finally see something I suggest win.
Tanta, you should enter. You obviously couldn't give yourself the JC award or cast a tiebreaker vote for yourself, but I can't think of any reason you should be exempt from the contest. Also, you should vote for theme rounds as well.
You're more arbiter than judge anyway.

So... I had an idea, and it might be a crazy one. But, would anyone be down for the idea of a double submission contest? Something like "Sides of a coin" or "Takes one to know one" where you'd submit two entries that contrasted each other (paladin/antipaladin) or two entries that worked together (race/class combo).
A double-down contest could be its own theme, or we could decide to make the winning theme a double-down round (Alkali and Acidic elementomancers duking it out in a Double-Down "Not Your Grandad's Elements" competition).

While the idea of a double-down contest is debated (or not debated and just shot down immediately) I will submit the following theme: Over 9000! ~ Superhumanoids and their toys (comic books and anime/manga concepts). Green rings of fabrication, DR/kryptonite, and Kamehameha waves abounding. If desired, we can make it like the "How the !@#$?" competition, where we decide to be less concerned about balance and physics, in favor of higher humor and craziness.

Also, what's the SCP foundation?

[Phillammon]

This (www.scp-wiki.net/)is the SCP Foundation. Careful following that link, that thing's got TV Tropes levels of "just one more link" to it.

I like the double submission idea, actually. I'd vaguely been floating some double-ish ideas around in my head looking at some of the possible themes that are on the board at the moment, and it could be fun. That said, it may or may not be feasible based on time scales...

[Tanuki Tales]

Resubmissions are a no-no. Though if we want to allow entries that were basically blank (which a few folks have submitted), that's something we can discuss.

I'd also only personally allow a "double-down" on the grounds that you guys team up in pairs. :smalltongue:


Also, what's the SCP foundation?

How can I sum this up...

......

You know that warehouse from the Indiana Jones series where things are locked away and examined by "top men"? That's the SCP Foundation, if they used inmates for testing, were more or less amoral (if not immoral) and have survived the human race being completely wiped out four times and rebooted everything each time.

Google it; you'll get lost in the thousands of SCP subjects.

[Phillammon]

Sorry, I meant resubmissions of a theme, but looking back I've answered my own question, but never mind.

Also, double-down pairups sounds EXCELLENT as an idea, I really like that.

[ShiningStarling]

Take Your Seats! - Anything for a good performance, spectacle, or jolly good show! Bards, Blade-dancers, Beguilers, Bewilderers, and Broadway in d20.

Also, doubles sounds... very interesting :smallsmile:

[gr8artist]

Hmm, I am concerned that we don't have enough competitors to run a team-up round. Even with 6 people, that's only 3 teams, and if you can't vote for yourself that means you'll only be placing 1st and 2nd place votes.
Too... cluttered.

Table accurate to here, but it's not rendering correctly for some reason.



Proposed name
Theme
Votes


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
--


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
--


I, Construct
Constructs
--


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes
--


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation
--


Send in the Clones
Replication and duplication
--


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
--


Transform and ROLL OUT
Transformation, robotic or otherwise, and bad movies
--


Over 9000!
Superhumanoids (comics and anime/manga)
--


Take Your Seats!
Performance and showmanship
--




--




--




--




--




--




--

[Tanuki Tales]

Proposed name
Theme


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table


I, Construct
Constructs


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation


Send in the Clones!
Replication and Duplication


Because I Love You
Love, in all its forms


Transform, and ROLL OUT
Transformations, robotic or otherwise


Over 9000!
Superhuman (comics, manga, etc.)


Take Your Seats!
Performances, bardic or otherwise




You're right, it's not rendering.

....

Off to the Board/Site Issues subforum then.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm giving another theme selection choice to everyone.

[malonkey1]

"Here's lookin' at you kid": Classic films

[gr8artist]

A Pyrrhic Procedure: Victory and success at great cost.
Though, alternatively, if we decide on a way to do the double-down round, but you decide that it should be its own theme, then I'll suggest that for my theme. (Double Down: Two entries that relate to one another)

[ShiningStarling]

A Shadow in the Night - Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth, anything for those who would rather not engage in matches of magical and martial might.

[Tanuki Tales]

Proposed name
Theme


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table


I, Construct
Constructs


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation


Send in the Clones!
Replication and Duplication


Because I Love You
Love, in all its forms


Transform, and ROLL OUT
Transformations, robotic or otherwise


Over 9000!
Superhuman (comics, manga, etc.)


Take Your Seats!
Performances, bardic or otherwise


Here's lookin' at you kid!
Classic films


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory at great costs


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge and stealth




Alright, free reign here guys. We need 3 more and need to get this voting underway.

[Adam1949]

Pick a God and Pray!: Deities and Divine Characters.

Note, this isn't necessarily divine spellcasters!

[gr8artist]

Some previous suggestions that didn't make it. List is certainly not comprehensive.



Theme Name
Description


Atavism
Bestial/feral/devolved humanoids


Fire & Brimstone
The lower (evil) planes


Munchkin Style
Silly things


Bring Down the Hammer
Hammers (metaphorical or literal)


Phasing Out
Teleportation/planar travel etc.


No Rest for the Wicked
Crime and criminals


Fire in the Sky
Lightning and/or meteors


Monster Master
Monster collection/raising games


Charon's Wages
Assassins, mercenaries, hit men


Spaaaaace
Space


Root of All Evil
Money and greed


Augmented Reality
Psychosis, hallucinations, mind alteration


You're so Meta
Divine intervention, metagame mechanics, 4th wall breaking


Road Less Travelled
Drugs, alcohol, addiction


Mix and Match
Fusing old concepts into something new


Now You See Me
Performance magic and prestidigitation


Rhythm Revolution
Combos and rhythms


That's All, Folks
Cartoons/cartoon physics


Plato's Pride
Platonic solids/geometric shapes


Macguffin
Entries revolving around a particular, plot-centric item


Missing a Common Sense
Loss or removal of one of the 5 senses


Monsters' University
Intelligent/learned monsters


PS I Hate You
Hatred and Anger


All that we See or Seem is but a Dream within a Dream
Dreams and nightmares, and overly long competition titles


Hey, I know that _____ !
Pop culture (request title change to "I understood that reference")


Legendary League
League of Legends and other video games


That KILLS People, Carrrl...
Undead


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types


Sorcerous Specialties, Wizardly Ways
Specialized casters


Where Giants Tread
Webcomics and comic strips


Written in the Stars
Destiny, astrology, divination


To Brew, or Not to Brew
Shakespeare


My Lucky Day
Luck


A Stranger to Myself
Abnormal souls, possession and astral projection


That Deviant Smile
Deviantart


Saving People, Hunting Things
Supernatural (angels, demons, monsters, and the people that hunt them)


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters


Now Gish is More Like It
Gishes (martial and magic combined)


Palaces and Princesses
Royalty

[malonkey1]

Out of those, Darwinian Discoveries is one I like.

[Tanuki Tales]

One more then and we move to voting.

Gr8, do you mind doing the initial table? You're better with the coding than I am.

Now back to binge reading SCPs, which is honestly better than reading TVtropes. :smalltongue:

[Phillammon]

As a last one:
Whiff of the Ol' Brimstone: Explosives

[gr8artist]

Sure thing. After looking around, it seems like single-class tables still work. I'll see if I can make it sortable.



Proposed name
Theme
Votes


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


I, Construct
Constructs
1


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes
0


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation
0


Send in the Clones
Replication and duplication
0


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
0


Transform and ROLL OUT
Transformation, robotic or otherwise, and bad movies
0


Over 9000!
Superhumanoids (comics and anime/manga)
1


Take Your Seats!
Performance and showmanship
1


Here's Lookin' at You, Kid
Classic films
0


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory at great cost
1


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
1


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
1


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
1



My own votes are included in this table

I, Construct
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Darwinian Discoveries
Pick a God and Pray
Pyrrhic Procedure
A Shadow in the Night
Over 9000!
Take Your Seats!

[Adam1949]

Darwinian Discoveries
Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
Take Your Seats!
I, Construct
Because I Love You
Go Big or Go Gnome
Cthubrew F'tagn

[malonkey1]

Not Your Granddad's Elements
I, Construct
Send in the Clones
Transform and ROLL OUT
Here's Lookin' at You, Kid
Pyrrhic Procedure
Pick a God and Pray
Darwinian Discoveries

[dragonjek]

Hiya.

Got my class up. "Taxiarch" is a military rank from Ancient Greece.

I think I got almost all of the 36 Stratagems, but I'm not certain about the balance. Any comments would be appreciated.



For my votes:
1 - Cthubrew F'tagn
2 - Not your Grandad's Elements
3 - [DATA EXPUNGED]
4 - Because I Love You
5 - Pyrrhic Procedure,
6 - Pick a God and Pray
7 - Darwinian Discoveries
8 - A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone

[gr8artist]

Awesome! The sortable tag works by itself.



Proposed name
Theme
Votes


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
2


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
2


I, Construct
Constructs
3


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes
1


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation
1


Send in the Clones
Replication and duplication
1


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
2


Transform and ROLL OUT
Transformation, robotic or otherwise, and bad movies
1


Over 9000!
Superhumanoids (comics and anime/manga)
1


Take Your Seats!
Performance and showmanship
2


Here's Lookin' at You, Kid
Classic films
1


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory at great cost
3


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
4


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
4


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
2



Votes from gr8artist, dragonjek, malonkey1, and Adam 1949 are on the board, with divine characters and new creature types taking the lead.

[Phillammon]

Pick a God and Pray
I, Construct
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Send in the Clones
[DATA EXPUNGED]
Because I Love You
Go Big or Go Gnome
A Shadow in the Night

[ShiningStarling]

Cthubrew F'tagn
Not your Grandad's Elements
I, Construct
Take Your Seats!
A Shadow in the Night
Pyrrhic Procedure
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Over 9000!

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
3


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
3


I, Construct
Constructs
5


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes
2


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation
2


Send in the Clones
Replication and duplication
2


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
3


Transform and ROLL OUT
Transformation, robotic or otherwise, and bad movies
1


Over 9000!
Superhumanoids (comics and anime/manga)
2


Take Your Seats!
Performance and showmanship
3


Here's Lookin' at You, Kid
Classic films
1


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory at great cost
4


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
4


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
5


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
4


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
4



Votes from gr8artist, dragonjek, malonkey1, Adam1949, Oblivimancer, and Phillamon are on the board. Divine characters maintain their lead, while constructs overtake new creature types. It's not looking good for transformation or classic films.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just as a reminder, entries for this month's contest do not need to encompass all 36 stratagems. They can cover just one.

[gr8artist]

But where's the fun in that?
Also, why don't you vote? Even if you don't enter, you can still let us know which topics you'd like to see.

[Tanuki Tales]

But where's the fun in that?
Also, why don't you vote? Even if you don't enter, you can still let us know which topics you'd like to see.

I feel like that'd be unprofessional. I'm already a bit uncomfortable entering a selection of my own. >.>

[gr8artist]

But it wouldn't affect your ability to arbitrate any round. I'm pretty sure judges often organize tournaments so that matches they want to see happen, or that top ranked players don't get spread evenly across the board (or do, in some cases).
I, for one, wouldn't have any problem with you pitching in a batch of eight votes. I mean, hell, I do almost as much officiating as you do sometimes, and I promote themes, enter, and even vote.

Edit: Also, on a side note, should we vote on how / whether-or-not to make a double up round?
If desired, I can make a double up round separate from the regular competition series.

[Stake A Vamp]

Darwinian Discoveries
Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
not your grandads elements
I, Construct
Because I Love You
Go Big or Go Gnome
Cthubrew F'tagn

and i would like to thank Gr8 artist for informing me of this months voting. sorry i kinda dropped out of the world for a time.

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
4


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
4


I, Construct
Constructs
6


Go Big or Go Gnome
Gnomes
3


[DATA EXPUNGED]
SCP Foundation
2


Send in the Clones
Replication and duplication
2


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
4


Transform and ROLL OUT
Transformation, robotic or otherwise, and bad movies
1


Over 9000!
Superhumanoids (comics and anime/manga)
2


Take Your Seats!
Performance and showmanship
3


Here's Lookin' at You, Kid
Classic films
1


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory at great cost
4


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
5


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
6


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
5


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
4



Votes from gr8artist, dragonjek, malonkey1, Adam1949, Oblivimancer, Phillamon, and Stake A Vamp are on the board.

Dropping Pyrrhic Procedure from the running because we had a 5 way tie for last place when narrowing the list down to 8 themes.



Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
1


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
1


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
0


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
0


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
1



Quarter-final round begins, and my votes are on the board.

I, Construct
Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone

[dragonjek]

1 - Cthubrew F'tagn
2 - Darwinian Discoveries
3 - Pick a God and Pray
4 - Because I Love You

[Adam1949]

Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
I, Construct
Because I Love You

[malonkey1]

Darwinian Discoveries
Cthubrew F'tagn
Not Your Granddad's Elements
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone

[Phillammon]

A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
I, Construct
Because I Love You
Pick a God and Pray

[caledscratcher]

Pick a God and Pray
Because I Love You
Not Your Granddad's Elements
Darwinian Discoveries

As a note, I'm not certain how active I'll be able to be in this contest, as I'm gonna be spending three weeks without a laptop.

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
3


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
5


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
2


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
2


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
4


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
3



Myself, Adam1949, dragonjek, malonkey1, Phillamon, and caledscratcher have all voted in this round. Divine characters is looking like a crowd favorite again, with subterfuge, Cthulhu, and chemistry class all falling behind.


EDIT: Finished my entry, finally, and got some stuff into the supplementary information post after it.
I'm a little concerned about balance, but I think martial-themed MAD character is decently balanced, even with a slew of high-powered abilities. In the supplementary info, I think Bred for War is a bit stronger than Bred for Command, but the bonuses it gets are only effective against less than optimum opponents, so in the grand scheme they're kinda' balanced.

EDIT EDIT: So... doubles?

[Stake A Vamp]

Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
Cthubrew F'tagn
Not your Grandad's Elements

[Phillammon]

With the race against time fully in effect, I'm gonna post live updates here of the final few weapons. Or the modification of the backstory to explain why the last few are missing.

6 weapons left to go!

EDIT: Remove Training added, 5 left to go!

EDIT AGAIN: False Eyes down, 4 left!

EDIT ONCE MORE: Take Resources complete, 3 to go!

EDIT 4- THE EDITING: Compliance done, 2 still remaining!

EDIT 5- EDIT HARDER: Force Fight is finished, last one!

FINAL EDIT: AND WE'RE DONE!

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
3


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
6


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
3


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
3


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
3


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
4


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
3



Myself, Adam1949, dragonjek, malonkey1, Phillamon, Stake A Vamp, and caledscratcher have all voted in this round. Divine characters is gaining ground rapidly, while the rest are all neck and neck.

[MooseBite]

I, Construct
Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night
Cthubrew Ftagn

[ShiningStarling]

I, Construct
A Shadow in the Night
Not Your Grandad's Elements
Whiff o' the ol' Brimstone

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
5


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
7


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
5


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
4


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
4


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
4


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
4



Everyone has voted, and there is a four way tie for the last spot. Tanta?

EDIT: Also, just for S&G's, I'm going to make my next entry based of the top two suggestions. For example, if I, Construct wins, but Pick a God and Pray comes in second, then I'll be making a divine-themed construct, or a divinely inspired mechanic, or something of the sort.

[Tanuki Tales]

Cthubrew for the tie breaker.

Also, Rawhide said the table issue should be fixed.

[ShiningStarling]

If it means anything I am all for doubles :)

Also darn, I was really hoping for NYGElements this time, oh well there's always the next one.

So for semi-finals we have Constructs, Shadows, Gods, and Horrors, oh my!

A Shadow in the Night
Cthubrew F'tagn

[Stake A Vamp]

I agree with oblivomancer

A Shadow in the Night
Cthubrew F'tagn

[gr8artist]

My votes go to I, Construct and Pick a God and Pray.


Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
1


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
1


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
2



So, that's three (counting myself) who are down for some doubles. How would we do that? Proposed options include teaming up to make 2 related entries (which could be judged separately or as a pair) or each contestant making their own 2 entries (judged as a pair).
Personally, I lean toward the second, though this would be a lot of work and quite challenging for those with limited availability.
If we go with the first option, I suggest that we work together in pairs, but each contestant's entry is judged independently. Your collaborator cannot vote for your entry.
So, if I were teamed up with Oblivimancer, she and I would work together on a concept, and would each make half of it. They would be submitted as a pair, related to each other in some way, but would be judged independently, with each of us getting the full stock of 5 votes. We could not cast any of our 10 votes (my five or hers) for either of our entries.
On a related note, I don't wish to hijack Tanta's contest. Dude, if you would rather we not double up here, I can begin a separate spinoff contest in its own thread. Proper homage paid to this contest, of course, and it would be a more occasional thing than a regular one. It might also give us the option to cover twice as many themes.
Bottom line, I had a raw idea and it's still quite rough. Input is obviously welcome.

[ShiningStarling]

So, if I get it right, everyone is separate, just that there are pairs that don't vote for each other? And that they may be related in theme? Doesn't /exactly/ seem much like a colab work, but probably the most practical.

In a slight offshoot of that idea, maybe we could do something like one of the pair makes an entry for the 1st choice, and the other makes an entry for the runner up, and those are judged... somehow. Maybe individually and then a different vote for best pair that is worth some points. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

[Phillammon]

I, Construct
Pick a God and Pray

Also, if you double up Constructs and Divines, does that make it Deus Et Machina?

You would not believe how long I've been saving that pun

Edit: Zhànshù Tiāncái (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17500699&postcount=9) is finally complete, any last minute advice/feedback would be appreciated. Apologies for ignoring the earlier advice of splitting it up, but I couldn't figure out a good way to do it.

[malonkey1]

Cthubrew F'tagn
I, Construct

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
3


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
2


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
3



The reason I think the pairs should be judged individually is that we don't normally have very many completed entries. Assuming 6 completed entries get done, that's only 3 teams. That gives each person only two options for their votes. If you let each person vote fr individual entries, then you double their options.

On a side note, what if it wasn't necessarily teams, but rather conjoined efforts? We could discuss plans here. Someone wanting to do a race could take suggestions from people wanting to do classes and prcs, so that their entries all work together in some way, or are at least related.You could then vote for collaborators but not yourself.

The idea of a Best Collaboration award is neat, and gives a team themed award to people if they are judged separately. It would be redundant if we are being judged as a team, however.

[Adam1949]

Pick a God and Pray
Cthubrew F'tagn

Personally, I am of the opinion that if we did a double-event, that it would...
A) Be in it's own thread, and
B) Would be about mixing two entries together. So, for instance, if Pick a God and Cthubrew won, the idea would be to make a divine idea based on the Lovecraft Mythos.

[dragonjek]

Personally, I am of the opinion that if we did a double-event, that it would...
A) Be in it's own thread
I don't know... shaking things up every once in a while can be a good thing. I don't think it needs a separate thread--in the end, a double-event prompt is no different from a very specific normal prompt.


1 - Cthubrew Ftagn
2 - Pick a God and Pray
(although if those two ended up being the winners of this election, it would be closer to "Pick a God and Prey".

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
3


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
4


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
5



Votes from myself, dragonjek, Adam1949, malonkey1, Phillamon, Stake A Vamp, and Oblivimancer are on the board.

[MooseBite]

I, Construct
Pick a God and Pray

[caledscratcher]

Pick a God and Pray
A Shadow in the Night

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
4


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
6


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
5



With everyones' votes, we begin the final round.



Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
1


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0



Voters:

gr8artist
dragonjek

Adam1949

malonkey1

Phillamon

Stake A Vamp

Oblivimancer

MooseBite

caledscratcher

[Adam1949]

I'm so glad my suggestion got this far...

Pick a God and Pray!

[Phillammon]

Pick a God and Pray

[Stake A Vamp]

Cthubrew F'tagn

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
1



Voters:

gr8artist
dragonjek
Adam1949
malonkey1
Phillamon
Stake A Vamp
Oblivimancer
MooseBite
caledscratcher

[ShiningStarling]

Hmmmm, tough choice.

I feel like Lovecraft has more creative space to work with, but I think I will go with:

Pick a God and Pray

[caledscratcher]

Pick a God and Pray

And just FYI, I'm gonna be gone from the boards for three weeks starting this Sunday, so if we're doing teams then I'm out. But if we're doing solo stuff, I might be able to work something out when I get back.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry, I've been absorbed with IRL stuff this week (my college experience is either going to continue going smoothly or get really nasty, depending on the outcome of a meeting next week), so can someone catch me up on things?

Also, I'm thinking of extending the Tactical Genius! contest another day, if anyone who's not done will be done by then.

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
5


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
1



Voters:

gr8artist
dragonjek
Adam1949
malonkey1
Phillamon
Stake A Vamp
Oblivimancer
MooseBite
caledscratcher

Uh, basically we've been narrowing it down day by day. And, with five votes, it looks like we have a winner, unless someone new joins the contest.

[malonkey1]

Cthulbrew F'tagn!

[MooseBite]

Pick a God and Pray, says I. (Yarrr)

[gr8artist]

Proposed Name
Theme
Votes


Pick a God and Pray
Deities and divine characters
6


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
2



Voters:

gr8artist
dragonjek
Adam1949
malonkey1
Phillamon
Stake A Vamp
Oblivimancer
MooseBite
caledscratcher

Looks like an overwhelming victory for the next round's theme.

I'm thinking a casting PrC that specializes in fear-themed gishes.

[Phillammon]

I've got an idea rolling around. I feel like there may be firefly references made in the entry. We'll see.

[gr8artist]

Shepherd? Because Book's awesome.
Or a Guild Companion, because Inara's awesome too.
Or whatever the hell River was, because she's a whole new class of awesome.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll post the new contest tomorrow, so consider tonight the unofficial last time you have to finish the current contest's entries.

[ShiningStarling]

Hmmmm, I think Idolatry will be my focus, but how.... Anumidium and Ur-priest like things come to mind...

[gr8artist]

I'm thinking an Oracle + Antipaladin PrC, along with an Oracle mystery and curse for synergy.
Since, you know, Charisma.

[malonkey1]

I'm thinking, maybe a "Holy Mage" PrC, focused on using arcane magic to mimic divine magic, or possibly a "pseudo-casting" base class that instead uses Channel Energy in interesting ways (channeling into weapons, using channels for buffs/debuffs, expending channel uses to replicate certain spells, etc.). Which sound more interesting to you guys?

[Phillammon]

Shepherd? Because Book's awesome.
Or a Guild Companion, because Inara's awesome too.
Or whatever the hell River was, because she's a whole new class of awesome.

Nope.

Jayne.

[ShiningStarling]

Sooooo, will this be a doubles round, or are we saving that for another time?

[Tanuki Tales]

Sooooo, will this be a doubles round, or are we saving that for another time?

Good question.

Also, my college bruhaha ended up being a smooth process, so I'm back for here and for the game now. Do you guys want me to close things and get voting started or would you rather wait till we've answered the above question?

[Phillammon]

I'd say go ahead and save doubles for later, personally.

[ShiningStarling]

I agree with above, later. And to get ideas flowing the next contest could have some sort of doubles theme? Like polar opposites or cooperators, cooperative metamagic comes to mind...

[gr8artist]

So, I kept meaning to bring this up, but you misspelled "Tactical" in the large yellow font on the contest's first post.
Also, we have a few really good, solid entries this time, and voting will be hard even though there aren't many.

On a side note, I know that we got a lot of support for a doubles competition.
But, do we want to make the next round of the competition a doubles round, or do we want a separate contest apart from this one?
The next round of voting for this competition will have several of the themes that didn't make it: Cthulhu, Stealth, and Constructs. Would we do those as doubles as well, even if their themes don't quite work as well as "Opposites Attract" or "Superheroes and Sidekicks"?
Also, how will we pick teams for the double-up round? We could roll randomly, I suppose.

Lastly, I'm running a campaign called the Witherlands which could use one or two more players. I'm hoping to keep the post rate at about once per day, so if you think you can manage that then feel free to click the link in my signature. The link should include information on the rather extensive houserules we're using, as well as the custom races and cultures. This campaign is separate from TGQtPT, though I wouldn't mind seeing the playtest campaign players in another campaign as well, if they think they can manage it. I'll be re-opening the recruitment thread in the near future, just wanted to give you guys the heads up, since I know I already like the way some of you think.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I kept meaning to bring this up, but you misspelled "Tactical" in the large yellow font on the contest's first post.

D'oh.


On a side note, I know that we got a lot of support for a doubles competition.
But, do we want to make the next round of the competition a doubles round, or do we want a separate contest apart from this one?
The next round of voting for this competition will have several of the themes that didn't make it: Cthulhu, Stealth, and Constructs. Would we do those as doubles as well, even if their themes don't quite work as well as "Opposites Attract" or "Superheroes and Sidekicks"?
Also, how will we pick teams for the double-up round? We could roll randomly, I suppose.

All good questions, but we need to decide on the first one first.


Lastly, I'm running a campaign called the Witherlands which could use one or two more players. I'm hoping to keep the post rate at about once per day, so if you think you can manage that then feel free to click the link in my signature. The link should include information on the rather extensive houserules we're using, as well as the custom races and cultures. This campaign is separate from TGQtPT, though I wouldn't mind seeing the playtest campaign players in another campaign as well, if they think they can manage it. I'll be re-opening the recruitment thread in the near future, just wanted to give you guys the heads up, since I know I already like the way some of you think.

I wouldn't even know what to play, to be honest. I mean, there's some kind of borked 3rd party templates I'd always like to try out, but other than that?

[malonkey1]

Alright, I think I've decided what I want to do for the next contest. I've kind of given up on being able to come up with anything for this one (it was going to be a rogue designed to act a bit like a Factotum).

[gr8artist]

By "this one" did you mean "Tactical Genius"? because it's about to close.
Also, I thought I'd responded to your earlier question, but I don't see the response I thought I typed. The channel energy base class seems more interesting to me, though you'll have to keep an eye on some of the PrC's that Paizo has come out with along similar lines (such as the amazing Holy Vindicator).

[malonkey1]

By "this one" did you mean "Tactical Genius"? because it's about to close.
Also, I thought I'd responded to your earlier question, but I don't see the response I thought I typed. The channel energy base class seems more interesting to me, though you'll have to keep an eye on some of the PrC's that Paizo has come out with along similar lines (such as the amazing Holy Vindicator).

Yes. I wanted to do that, but got distracted and sidetracked until it was too late.

[Tanuki Tales]

The contest doesn't close until we decide if this one or the next one is the team up one.

[malonkey1]

Maybe we should put it to a vote. I vote no doubles for this one.

[gr8artist]

Agreed/seconded
We will take some time and figure all this out.

[Phillammon]

Thirded, here.

[ShiningStarling]

Fourthded..ededed
*ahem* I vote not this round as well, and it is the 4th vote of its kind.
*nailed it*

[Phillammon]

(I only just resisted the urge to say Thirdeded)

[dragonjek]

I don't mind putting off a double until later.

[gr8artist]

So, to clarify... (and because I'm celebrating the return of tables)


Round
Title
Status
Double?


XXV
Tactical Genius
Closing, begin voting
Nope


XXVI
Pick a God and Pray
Opening soon
Nope


XXVII
(undecided)
(unscheduled)
Maybe



Now, should XXVII be a double-up round, or should we start a separate contest for the double up round?

EDIT: Also, I'm throwing in some of the abilities I'm thinking of giving my next entry, to help get feedback on balance and mechanics
10 level prestige class, d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, good Will saves, poor Fort and Reflex saves, 6 skill ranks, and a 7/10 casting progression.
Abilities may include the following:

Charisma to HP and Fort saves, rather than Constitution
Unconcious, not dead, at 0 constitution
Ferocity (conscious, staggered, and bleeding at negative HP)
Increase to Aura of Cowardice's range and penalty (max 50 ft and –6)
Aura of Cowardice penalty applies to intimidate DC's
[Mind Affecting] tag removed from fear spells and effects (so you can terrify undead and constructs)
Your choice of the following

Frightful presence
fear-themed gaze attack
fear-themed combat feats
metamagic for fear spells


Pick one of the following bloodlines, get bloodline arcana and (eventually) the first two bloodline powers (as a sorceror of your level). If you have levels in another class that grants a bloodline, you must choose the bloodline you have in that class, and your levels in this class instead stack with that one to determine your effective level for bloodlines you possess. You may choose the wildblooded variant of this bloodline, as a sorceror.

Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Daemon, Infernal, Oni, Shadow, or Undead


Fear spells or effects to be made contagious. Panicked opponents gain aura of fear, mimicking whatever effect you used to panic them
Bonuses while suffering from a fear effect
Immunity to certain stages in the fear effects progression
Strength and fast healing bonuses equal to the number of creatures within aura who are suffering from fear effects.
Smell Fear (scent, usable only against enemies suffering fear effects, range 120 feet)
Negative energy affinity
Unnatural aura (animals can't approach without difficult handle animal check)
Constant "Weapon of Awe" effect (+2 damage and victim shaken for 1 round after successful crit)

[malonkey1]

I say, do XXVII as a doubles, and if it serves to be popular enough, maybe spin it off?

[Tanuki Tales]

So we got this decided? Awesome.

We'll close Tactical tonight and open voting and the new one tomorrow.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, the new threads are both up!

[gr8artist]

Started assembling my entry, and I'm debating what to do about this power.

Vile Inheritance (Su): A Nightmare Priest is constantly harassed and harried by disturbing thoughts, images, and messages from some source of dark power. When he finally learns to accept this dark message and embraces his destiny to spread the dark word as far as inhumanly possible, the power flowing through him manifests in new abilities similar to those possessed by a sorcerer.
The Priest chooses one of the following sorcerer bloodlines, and gains powers and abilities from it as though he were a sorcerer: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Daemon, Infernal, Oni, Shadow, or Undead. If he has a sorcerer bloodline from another class, he must choose a different bloodline than the one he already possesses.
At first level, the Priest gains the bloodline arcana from his chosen bloodline, using his levels in this class rather than sorcerer levels to determine the effectiveness of the arcana.
At 5th level, the Priest gains the 1st level power granted by his chosen bloodline. He uses his levels in this class as his effective sorcerer level to determine the effectiveness of this power.
At 9th level, the Priest gains the 3rd level power granted by his chosen bloodline. He uses his levels in this class as his effective sorcerer level to determine the effectiveness of this power.
So he gets the arcana (passive), 1st, and 3rd level powers.
Should I change it to 1st, 3rd, and 9th? Or perhaps (arcana and 1st), 3rd, and 9th?

EDIT: The capstone seems clunky and a little awkward to me; what do you guys think?

Mass Hysteria (Su): At 10th level, the Nightmare Priest spreads terror like a plague. Opponents that become panicked or begin cowering while within his aura of cowardice gain an aura of fear (as the spell) with a range of 30 feet for as long as they remain cowering, frightened, or panicked. The DC to resist this aura is 10 + 1/2 the Priest's hit dice + his Charisma modifier. They activate this aura as a free action whenever they move within range of a creature, or when a creature approaches them. Any creature that becomes panicked or begins cowering as a result of such an aura gains a weaker version of the aura, with a range of 30 feet and a DC 5 lower than the aura that affected them. There is no limit to the number of creatures that can be affected by these auras, though a creature that recovers from such an aura is immune to all auras created by this ability for 24 hours.
Allies of the Nightmare Priest are unaffected by the fear auras created by this ability.
So, we have a cascading aura effect.
Victim A is within the Nightmare Priest's aura of cowardice when he falls subject to a serious fear effect and becomes panicked. He flees for about 10 rounds. The Priest has about 15 hit dice and 20 Charisma, so the DC to resist the fear aura created by victim A is 22.
Victim A runs down an alley and passes victim B. Victim B fails his save and becomes panicked as well, though the DC for his aura drops to 17.
Victim B encounters victim C, who fails his save and becomes panicked, with a DC 12 aura.
Victim D resists victim C's aura, but he fails when victim B runs past him, and begins to radiate a DC 12 aura of his own while he runs around, panicked.
Victim D has never even seen the Nightmare Priest, and really has no idea what he's so scared of.
The duration on victim A's panic finally runs out. He is immune to auras possessed by victims B, C, and D for 24 hours, though not the fear auras created by other creatures, such as demons or dragons.

[Tanuki Tales]

Don't forget to vote guys!

[gr8artist]

... it's so quiet.

I think this may be a better wording for the capstone:

At 10th level, the Nightmare Priest spreads terror like a plague. Opponents that become panicked or begin cowering while within his aura of cowardice gain an aura of hysteria (as the fear spell) with a range of 30 feet for as long as they remain cowering, frightened, or panicked. The DC to resist this aura is 10 + 1/2 the Priest's hit dice + his Charisma modifier, and the panic condition lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Priests caster level. They activate this aura as a free action whenever they move within range of a creature, or when a creature approaches them.
Any creature that fails its save against an aura of hysteria gains a weaker version of the aura, with a range of 30 feet and a DC 5 lower than the aura that affected them. There is no limit to the number of creatures that can be affected by these auras.
Creatures that succeed their save against an aura of hysteria remain susceptible to further auras, though they are immune to all auras of hysteria with a DC equal to or less than the one they resisted for 1 day. When a creature suffering from an aura of hysteria recovers (either with outside help or by outlasting the duration of the panic effect) they become immune to all auras of hysteria for 1 day.
Allies of the Nightmare Priest are immune to all auras of hysteria, though the Nightmare Priest may remove this immunity or grant it to any creature he can see as a free action.

[Phillammon]

I'm in the process of getting everything else together, but for the time being, could I get someone to cast an eye over Divinity, the capstone for the High Priest of Me?



Divinity (Ex):
Starting at the tenth level, the High Priest of Me is almost wholly a being shaped by the beliefs of their followers. Conveniently, beliefs are harder to kill than people. The High Priest of me becomes timeless, becoming immune to ageing effects and impervious to death by natural causes. Additionally, upon the death of the High Priest of Me, roll 8d12. If the High Priest of Me is still dead after a number of weeks equal to the value rolled, they wake up in a self-contained finite demiplane with normal traits. This plane is the godly domain of the High Priest of Me, who is granted divine rank 1. It is strongly suggested that the High Priest of Me is retired when this occurs, as the ascent to god(ess)hood tends to change ones priorities quite spectacularly. (Any followers of the High Priest of Me may choose, on death, for their souls to go to the High Priest of Me's godly domain rather than the alignment-appropriate afterlife)

I feel like this one is... volatile at best, but it's basically the only capstone that fits the... "narrative" that I'm intending for this class.

[gr8artist]

I'm not really sure what divine rank entails. If you want the character to become a god after death, just say that the character becomes a god after death. He may select a portfolio that makes sense, with DM adjudication. He can't play anymore as a god, so you dont' need to worry about balance.

Perhaps incorporate Paizo's "Mythic" system?
Immunity to aging is fine; I'd add in immunity to disease and poison (natural and supernatural). That seems to cover all "natural causes"
Give him a big bonus on saves vs death effects, and use a simpler method than 8d12 weeks. Perhaps make it an option?
Or give him a contingent reincarnate/resurrection spell that recharges over an extended period of time?

[Phillammon]

Fair enough, saying "becomes a god after death" works just fine for these purposes. I'm not gonna try to incorporate the mythic system, that's just asking for trouble. Also, the intention was that the class ability gave divine rank 0, upgrading to divine rank 1 after their "final" death- hence the 8d12 weeks. If you're not alive after about a year, you're probably not coming back, was my logic.

In any case, I'll go ahead and add that disease and poison immunity (that's on divine rank 0, but I thought it might be a little strong. Apparently I was wrong)

[gr8artist]

Other classes and archetypes get those immunities much earlier.

Reviews (still cursory at this point)
Seems like you have too much energy in the blessing pool. You get ALL the powers of a cleric, enough energy to cast way more high end spells, and still have some left over for goofing off with.
I assume the balancing factor is that the Cleric has a whole spell list, while your spells have to come from your domains?
Divine focus seems scattered and a bit confusing to me. Lay out each new perk in its own paragraph, since they aren't progressions or related to each other. Make some of them new abilities entirely (like the deflection one).
Casting SLA's is a little different from Spells, and the differences are fairly important. For example, SLA's don't require the full gambit of components and I don't think they provoke the same way.
It's interesting that your capstone is almost the same as Phill's
I'm not thrilled by the name, but it's humorous. Perhaps Priest of Narcissus or Priest of Introversion. Exemplar, Trailblazer, and just Hight Priest all seem like they could fit as well. Possibly even Cultist.
Spell per day progression probably doesn't need to include "spontaneous". It's also a little unconventional, I believe. 8/10 isn't common, is it?
Since your class is a deceiver, consider upping his skill ranks to 4, so he can cover diplomacy, bluff, perform, and sleight of hand a little more effectively.
What happens if the Endena does not worship a deity?
What's the origin of this race? Why do they adapt physically to purely spiritual stimuli?
It's an interesting concept; I look forward to seeing it fleshed out.

[malonkey1]

Seems like you have too much energy in the blessing pool. You get ALL the powers of a cleric, enough energy to cast way more high end spells, and still have some left over for goofing off with.

Yeah, I thought so. Those were just the numbers I was going to start with. Maybe cut the pool in half?


I assume the balancing factor is that the Cleric has a whole spell list, while your spells have to come from your domains?

Yes, that was intended. You'd have basically only the spells from the domains (and be able to learn a very limited selection of spells from Channel Powers, which I have yet to write and add in.).


Divine focus seems scattered and a bit confusing to me. Lay out each new perk in its own paragraph, since they aren't progressions or related to each other. Make some of them new abilities entirely (like the deflection one).

Alright. I'll look into that.


Casting SLA's is a little different from Spells, and the differences are fairly important. For example, SLA's don't require the full gambit of components and I don't think they provoke the same way.

I'm aware of the differences between spells and SLAs (although I did call out that you still needed the components, although i wonder if it's necessary). The idea, again, was to balance out the benefits of having SLAs with the limited selection.


It's interesting that your capstone is almost the same as Phill's


Well, I wrote the capstone before I saw Phillamon's entry, but upon looking, yeah, they are pretty similar. Huh.

[gr8artist]

Got half my Oracle mystery written up. Just need about 5 more revelations.
Then I'll have to think of something else to add to my bonus resources collection.
Also, I'm hoping to add a picture for my entry in the near future.

Malonkey, I would cut the pool down some, and make him spend 1 point per d6 of channel energy. If you do, cutting it in half may be a bit drastic, so you can leave some in. Plus, this could maybe allow him to channel up to 1d6/level, which could be fun.

Also, someone needs to include an ability that allows channel energy to both heal living AND harm undead at the same time, because I don't understand why it doesn't.

[gr8artist]

So, I drew a picture for my Nightmare Priest entry. It's been heavily edited in the GNU image editing software (free, knock-off photoshop), but I really like how it turned out.
Moosebite tells me I should draw more, and I could use the extra practice. So, I'm going to offer to draw a picture of the winning entry in all current and future competitions. Entries I like may also get a picture, if I have time. Pictures can be pencil (black and white, I can do this in a few hours), inked (using a pen to trace the pencil sketch for better detail and crispness), colored (an inked image with color added via colored pencils, markers, or crayons [because freakin' crayons are awesome, ok]), or edited (scanned and given special effects via photo-editing software).

I can't do OotS style avatars yet, but I can do simple, cartoony pictures as well, if desired.

Behold, the Nightmare Priest!
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r40/gr8artist/Character%20Art/NightmarePriest_zps709fd465.png
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r40/gr8artist/Character%20Art/NMP_zps8dd56d1a.jpg
(that's an exotic weapon, by the way. The scythe blade functions as normal (2d4, 20 x4, trip), but it has an axe blade on the back (1d10, 20 x3) and a zhua (http://deadliestwarrior.wikia.com/wiki/Zhua) on the pommel (1d6, 20 x2, disarm).

EDIT: finished the Terror mystery. Do you think Hellfire Grasp would work better as a Tiefling Antipaladin archetype?

Also, Adam, I love the idea behind your entry.
Personally, I'd allow it to be ANY good, not just LG. And I'd make LoH deal extra damage (d8's probably) since you nerfed the amazing self-heal and activation costs.
Regarding rage powers, would a Zealot 1/Barbarian 1 get a rage power, since the levels stack? If not, you have an unnecessary line in your Zealous Rage ability.

[3WhiteFox3]

Sorry for the absence guys, I had some Real Life issues that really got in the way. But my free time is now a lot better thanks to it, so I'm not too upset. One of the benefits is that I've had a good amount of time to let ideas bounce around in my head.

I posted my Arboreal Hunter, a druid archetype for those who revere Erastil, because I think that druids who choose to honor a deity should have some sort of mechanical difference from normal druids, without just making them nature themed clerics. If anyone has critiques or comments, let me know. Is it too powerful? Boring? Vague? Please let me know.

[gr8artist]

An interesting addition. It's shaping up to be a very interesting round this month.

Ethos probably doesn't need the Ex tag. Just make it an addendum to the alignment section, and keep in mind that druids (by default) must be neutral in some fashion.
I'm wondering what the logic was to limit animal companion choices. What's not to like about wolves? Or is it an "herbivores only" club? I assume not, as I see the Eagle and Boar on the list (A boar eats pretty much anything, right?).
I would put the bonus feats in a more appropriate order, with ones that have lower prereq's (PBS) arriving first. I'd also give him a few more, since animal summoning is the Druid's major casting schtick. You may also want to consider giving him ranger bonus feats, favored terrain, or weapon training.
Precise shot seems out of place for a hunter, since you're usually not trying to pick off animals engaged in combat. Far Shot might be more appropriate.
I've never been a fan of "Resist Nature's Lure (4th level)" and would love to see you come up with something to replace it. Unless you specifically left it out for archetype interaction.
Rather than splitting the wisdom bonus for BotGWS, I'd suggest adjusting the range. So, 1 range increment at 7th, or any distance at 13th.


Edit: Also, added a new archetype to my additional resources list. Weary Souls are the reincarnated spirits of fallen heroes who've seen their efforts go to waste. After a lifetime of watching "good" people stumble, sin, and devolve into their primitive, evil nature, the former hero decides to cast off all vestiges of mercy and compassion and begin a faithless purge of humanity, starting with the worst of the worst. He's evil, but he hunts greater evil.

[Tanuki Tales]

I have a good feeling about this contest (look at all the entries we have already)! And hey, Milo's back too, along with WhiteFox!

[Phillammon]

I'm abandoning High Priest of Me, back to the drawing board on something that's actually balancable. I genuinely have no idea what Wizards and Sorcerors are meant to be giving up (wizards particularly...).

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm abandoning High Priest of Me, back to the drawing board on something that's actually balancable. I genuinely have no idea what Wizards and Sorcerors are meant to be giving up (wizards particularly...).

7th to 9th level spells is a good start. I'm of the opinion that caster PrCs should be, at most, 5/10 progression.

[gr8artist]

I've toyed with the idea of giving them spells known like a bard, but spell slots like a wizard, forcing them to fill high-end space with metamagic. Not a big set back, but it gets rid of a few of the heavy hitters.
Banning spell schools would also work, or forcing them to cast all spells at close range.

5/10 progression, huh? Do you think my Nightmare Priest is too strong, then?

[Phillammon]

For several of the High Priest of Me's features to work properly, they really needed to get level 9 spells at some point, which kind of put a damper on it.

[gr8artist]

If you're looking for ideas, I like to usually start by taking two base classes and seeing how I can make a way to combine them, either through PrC's or archetypes.
Witch and Druid is one combination I've considered, using your animal companion as your familiar.
Something like 3.5's Tomb Raider of Olidammar (sp?) that specializes in robbing temples with rogue talents could also be fun.
Cavalier's just begging for a holy (or unholy) order. Or a fighter that gets blessings instead of weapon training.
Or, since everyone's doing classes, PrC's, and similar stuff, take a look at creatures, templates, and artifacts.

[Milo v3]

I have a good feeling about this contest (look at all the entries we have already)! And hey, Milo's back too, along with WhiteFox!

Hi :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

I've toyed with the idea of giving them spells known like a bard, but spell slots like a wizard, forcing them to fill high-end space with metamagic. Not a big set back, but it gets rid of a few of the heavy hitters.
Banning spell schools would also work, or forcing them to cast all spells at close range.

While the former kind of works, spells are just too good and too broken. Now, giving them up to say...4th and 5th levels spells and then following 3.5's Epic Spellcasting rules where 6th-9th spell slots are reserved for only metamagic enhanced spells would work.

Hm...there's an idea...

Also, banning schools doesn't actually ban them. You just need to burn more spell slots to prepare them.


5/10 progression, huh? Do you think my Nightmare Priest is too strong, then?

I honestly haven't looked at any of the contest material yet, sorry. I usually wait a while to make sure stuff is totally complete; I don't like critiquing half-finished work.

[gr8artist]

Fair enough. My entry is done, actually. I've just been making additional material.
And when I say Ban, I mean ban, not opposition.
For example, wizards could ban 2 schools entirely and choose two others for opposition (2 slots to cast).
Maybe split the strongest schools apart, like having summoning separate from conjuration.

[Milo v3]

And Relicbound is done, though I'm unsure about the intelligence increase at 20th level because of gestalting with wizard and such, and might remove the extra WBL.

[3WhiteFox3]

Ethos probably doesn't need the Ex tag. Just make it an addendum to the alignment section, and keep in mind that druids (by default) must be neutral in some fashion.
Will do, I might end up changing the alignment requirement to have to be one step from Erastil (so LG, LN or NG).


I'm wondering what the logic was to limit animal companion choices. What's not to like about wolves? Or is it an "herbivores only" club? I assume not, as I see the Eagle and Boar on the list (A boar eats pretty much anything, right?).
The main reason for the limiting is to choose animals that I felt were close to Erastil's reverence of elk, deer, and other hooved animals (I chose to focus on Order Pecora) the Eagle, Boar and Horse are because those are the forms of his servants. I'll probably just end up allowing the Arboreal Hunter to choose any animal companion but give a boost to certain companions (especially since most of the animal companions that are appropriate for Erastil are sub-par).


I would put the bonus feats in a more appropriate order, with ones that have lower prereq's (PBS) arriving first. I'd also give him a few more, since animal summoning is the Druid's major casting schtick. You may also want to consider giving him ranger bonus feats, favored terrain, or weapon training.
Ack! That's supposed to be Point Blank Master at 9th, not PBS.

I originally planned on giving out more bonus feats, but I didn't want to overshadow the other archer classes by dumping a whole bunch of feats onto the druid. I do agree, however, that it needs something to make up for losing spontaneous summoning.


Precise shot seems out of place for a hunter, since you're usually not trying to pick off animals engaged in combat. Far Shot might be more appropriate.

You have to remember that Arboreal Hunters are more than just regular hunters. They have to fight people, animals and monsters that threaten their communities, and so would need to know how to hit one target without having the chance to hurt one of their own.

Also, a big part of ethical hunting is making sure that you take the best shot possible to avoid collateral damage or wounding an animal without killing it, so precision is key. In my mind, precise shot is the best way to represent that mindset. Far Shot isn't nearly as interesting (nor as important for most archery builds).

Also, getting Improved Precise Shot (which is completely sensible for a hunter) without the first feat just feels wrong to me.



I've never been a fan of "Resist Nature's Lure (4th level)" and would love to see you come up with something to replace it. Unless you specifically left it out for archetype interaction.


I would have sworn that I had replaced RNL at some point, I also dislike it and it doesn't really fit the feel that I have for the Arboreal Hunter. I'll think of something to replace it with.


Rather than splitting the wisdom bonus for BotGWS, I'd suggest adjusting the range. So, 1 range increment at 7th, or any distance at 13th.
You mean getting Wisdom mod to damage within first ranged increment at 7, and later at 13 gain it for a shot at any range? That's actually pretty interesting, I like it. My only concern is that most combats easily fall within the first ranged increment for the composite longbow, so it might not be a huge limiter in practice. I'll think about it though.

[Tanuki Tales]

I wouldn't even know what to play, to be honest. I mean, there's some kind of borked 3rd party templates I'd always like to try out, but other than that?

So, I noticed this didn't get a reply. :smalltongue:

In related news, I came up with a template combination that'd let you play The Undertaker (kind of), but requires an ECL 5 game.

I'll also try to do run downs tomorrow.

[gr8artist]

Tanta, was that for my other campaign, The Witherlands?
Take a look at the character creation guidelines. I have modified versions of the core races (evolved to match the setting) and cultural backgrounds that determine training and learned modifiers.
So an orc from Thoros would be 50% different from an orc from an orc of Garl or Dymis.

[Tanuki Tales]

Guys, please go vote! >.<

[Phillammon]

Okay, I've come up with a new concept, but I have... several questions regarding what is and isn't allowed. Basically, there are two concepts I'm torn between (thought they are pretty closely related), but they would both require quite excessive entries. Specifically, it would either be 7 prestige classes and a template, or 7 deities, 7 domains, and an archetype. In the former case, one of the PrCs is one that I've already designed and posted here, and in the latter case, one of the domains already exists in Paizo material. Which would be preferable, and am I allowed to use existing material? (I've seen the no prior work rule, but having just 6 out of the 7 feels like its leaving things incomplete in both cases...)

[gr8artist]

Pick one to technically be your entry, then list the other six as additional resources. That allows you to show design and synergy, without mucking up the rules.

[Phillammon]

That'd probably work with the Prestige Class/Archetype + 7 gods thing, that works.

[dragonjek]

If anyone could give me any input on how to improve the Biblios, it would be appreciated.

[Milo v3]

Ok.... Now I've done the class, equipment, feats, deity, and race.... Probably should stop now *facepalm*

[gr8artist]

I'll try and do review later today. This is a good round.

[Tanuki Tales]

Malonkey, I'm pretty sure that image is from one of the 3.5 sourcebooks. Did you get the original artist's and WoTC's permission to use it?
I'm curious how many deities actually have an exotic weapon as their favored weapon. I guess it also covers natural weapons too, which could be useful.
Blessing Pool doesn't specifically mention that you regain all of your spent blessing pool after eight hours of rest.
You don't have any Channel Powers yet, but I'm already failing to see how this class isn't all around superior to the Cleric. You get 9th level spells, full BaB, a better HD, channel energy, a good capstone and still undefined other stuff.


Nice art.
What's your intended entry for this prestige class? A straight Antipaladin can't enter it, since Remove Fear is not on their spell list, which leaves multiclassing with bard, cleric, inquisitor or oracle to nab the spell.
For Unholy Vigor, does the Fear effect need to originate from the Nightmare Priest? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules text would be "the ferocity special quality". And why does the Nightmare Priest not get just Fast Healing? Is there an effect that specifically negates it that you're trying to work around?
Do the weapon enchantments from Warrior of the Profane and Paragon of the Profane stack?
You should specify that the giving/removal of immunity for Mass Hysteria requires line of sight, not just "can see".
Overall, I find this PrC pretty nice. Since you seem to intend an AntiPaladin/Cleric entry, I'd probably cut a few more levels of spellcasting progression, since a build with this can still come out with 7th level spells, but that's just me.
Now for some bad news: I don't see how any of the additional resources you've made, except the Terror Oracle and Ominous curse, tie into the Nightmare Priest. They seem to simply be stand alone concepts.
And some more bad news: Your Terror Oracle unbalances this PrC; a Terror Oracle can still get 9th level spells on a build with this PrC. Sure, you lose your Oracle class features, but you get some really nice stuff out of it and still have 9th level spells.


Zealous Rage could honestly use some work to get it where you want it to be. As it is right now, it never increases past what a level 1 Barbarian gets, which is a big loss for what Smite Evil gave you and it's not even really a fair trade off in the first place. Smite Evil is all around better as a class feature than Rage, which is why Barbarians also get Rage Powers to supplement it. And speaking of, since Rage Powers are a separate class feature and aren't granted by the Rage class feature, you line of text concerning Zealots not getting them is redundant.
I don't really see the point in Sacred Fury Understanding. Why would you multiclass into Barbarian in the first place?



I'm going to be frank with you Fox....this archetype is terrible. I cannot think of any Druid who would take it (I mean, who gives up spontaneous summoning spells for a handful of subpar archery feats) and anyone who'd want to do the fluff concept of this archetype would just roll a devout Ranger. Literally everything this archetype does, a Ranger already can do.


And I'm going to stop here for now.

[gr8artist]

Original intended entry was Antipaladin + Oracle. My fiance suggested allowing other entries, such as just antipaladin, and so some of my archetypes and resources are designed to grant the features that would otherwise disallow entry from a single base class (Terror Oracle gets aura of cowardice, and the Dread Champion gets remove fear as a class spell).
No, Unholy Vigor's last two effects (the strength bonus and the fast healing) function just fine when the fear effect comes from another source. I'll change the text to "Special Quality" though, thanks.
I wasn't sure how to phrase the fast healing amount. How does "At level 9, the Priest gains the fast healing special quality when nearby opponents are suffering from fear effects. The amount of health that he gains from this fast healing is equal to the number of creatures within his aura of cowardice that are suffering from a fear effect at that time" sound instead? Or, "At level 9, the Priest gains fast healing equal to the number of creatures within his aura of cowardice that are suffering from a fear effect." if we want to go the simple route.
Yes, the weapon abilities stack, I suppose I can clarify that.
Specified line of sight for Mass Hysteria. Not sure about the phrasing, though.
I'll tone the casting progression down to 5/10, which would give Oracle-only entries up to 7th level spells and multiclass entries much less. I may change when he acquires some abilities, to prevent dead levels.
Dread Champion, as mentioned, is designed to allow Antipaladin-only entry, and both antipaladin archetypes are designed to help the class mesh with a good or neutral party, primarily by toning down the antipaladin code of conduct.
The first three feats are all antipaladin version of paladin LoH feats, while the last one is designed to give a little more flavor to the antipaladin.
I suppose feats that don't modify the actual submission but instead modify related classes don't necessarily belong, huh?

In taking out two levels of casting progression, I'm giving him more uses of terrifying transference (a number of uses per day equal to his charisma modifier) and adding a new ability at 7th level to impose more than just fear effects.

Still looking a little overly strong and capable. Did you nerf the energy pool yet? I can't remember what it used to be. Other than that, Tanta's criticisms are spot on.
This race might make more sense (to me at least) if there was a better understanding of WHY they change to look so much like their deity. Perhaps they're some evolved form of Aasimar or demi-outsider who serve as vessels for divine power? The biological changes they undergo could be imposed on them by deities who desire their asssitance, rather than derived from voluntary worship.
Your SLA's are quite powerful, and you could make bank selling atonement spells to people.
Your age seems a little long by PF standards.
Your Endena Apostle feat might need to be updated for PF. Allow them to channel energy as a cleric 1/2 level (5d6 at 20th level doesn't seem bad) 1/day. They can take turn/rebuke if they want to afterwards
Your Aura of the Crusader mentions uses, but I think you meant rounds?
Have you considered letting him take rage powers instead of mercies? Please?
Does deadeye's disciple replace anything?
Sanctified arrows is a neat concept. Is it a spontaneous decision? Like, I'll sacrifice my 1st level spell slot to fire an entangling arrow right now? Perhaps it might work more smoothly if you wrote up 9 different spells and allowed him to spontaneously cast them, rather than SNA 1-9.
I love the concept though.
Your proficiencies don't make sense.
Messing with WBL is a weird and dangerous mechanic. Consider just giving him a pool of effective money, as you have, and allowing him to spend actual wealth as well, though at reduced efficiency.
What happens to your total potential after using a scribe sword spell?
Help me out, here. What exactly does unlock magic do?
You need disarm defense as a class feature, because without your weapon your class is borderline commoner-tier at best.
So, do greataxe wielders get nerfed for the first few levels, dealing less damage with each strike than a commoner would?
Does a relic have to be a weapon? Because all your features are implying that it does, but it isn't described as such. Ring relics to punch with or belt relics to pelvic thrust with all come to mind.
Incorrect design needs to come online much, much later, or just make it the standard. Changing an ability one level after it's been granted is frustrating.
There are a LOT of wondrous items that won't work with relics as described. Throwing weapons, bags of holding, and feather tokens just to name a few.
If you can spend a FRA to summon it, why would you wait weeks and weeks for it to magically appear?
When exactly does the relic become an intelligent item?
I do like the 19th level ability to make everything non-magical. I'm not sure how you flavor it, though, since you're obviously doing things that can't be done with practice, training, or ancient secrets other than magic.
I had to go pretty far down to find a criticism, and I love your entry's theme and intent.
The mandatory rank in knowledge is weird. Just take that out, since you have so many skill bonuses already. Why is linguistics not also a class skill?
Are the glyphs considered SLA's? if so, be wary of PrC requirements and allowing inappropriate entry. Also, metamagic SLA feats for PC characters! Hooray!
You neglected to mention a caster level for your SLA's, presumably CL=HD.
Artillery would be better phrased as "each creature hit by at least one missile takes 2 additional points of damage" or something similar.
Missed the tab/dot/list note between earth and equestrian.
Speaking of which, Equestrian is 1/day but the hours don't need to be congruent... what?
Personally, I'd make Ethics be either attack/damage/AC/saves rather than attack/damage/AC/miss chance.
Glyph of frost would only work while holding a charge, right? Also, chill touch doesn't deal cold damage, it's actually negative energy.
Guardian is OP. Also, you need to clarify how he extends the benefit.
Inferno is a bit vague. Is it the default catching fire (1d6 per round indefinitely, DC 15 to extinguish) or something else?
Lunacy should read "lesser confusion" instead of "confusion, lesser"
Possession and Rainbows need cool secondary abilities too.
Slumber is OP. Make it cap at additional HD equal to his Int mod.
Structure needs a once-over, it got scrambled in the editing process.
Terror needs the same nerf as slumber.

Nice artwork. Can't wait to see the class.
You have some spelling and grammar issues that you might want to run through again, but overall it's a neat concept. Is English your second language?
Other than picking up Implosion, there's not really a good reason to pick this class. Wizards generally scribe every spell they can get their hands on, so allowing them to scribe spells isn't a big deal. What they want is spells/day, which is what they lose by not having the arcane school feature.
Consider also giving them some domain powers?
Destroyer's envoy is nice flavor, but has little to no impact on the game.
Rovagug's Tongue is cool, but needs more clarification. Is it optional, or is it mandatory at some level? Does it replace ALL bonus feats? If so, no one would ever take this class. You can learn languages for 1 skill rank, so there's not a lot of desire to spend feats learning them.
Give him some sonic/language based magic or abilities as well.

[3WhiteFox3]

@TanukiTales - Arboreal Hunter is currently in the middle of a minor rewrite to address some of the comments I've gotten. Before I was trying to balance it too much around the fact that the druid has 9th level spells. So that, in the end, it just didn't feel that much different from a poor-man's ranger. I'm going to follow G8rtist's advice and write up some custom spells to give the Arboreal Hunter some unique flavor. Thanks for the criticism, hopefully when it's finished it'll have a unique niche.

@G8artist - Deadeye's disciple doesn't replace anything right now, that will probably change by tomorrow. For now, I just need to find something appropriate to replace. I'll be taking your advice when I rewrite it.

[Milo v3]

Your proficiencies don't make sense.
Could you say how?


Messing with WBL is a weird and dangerous mechanic. Consider just giving him a pool of effective money, as you have, and allowing him to spend actual wealth as well, though at reduced efficiency.
Why reduced efficiency, that would make the character useless.
It isn't messing with WBL though, it's just saying "Ok, here is the money I can spend to enchant my sword".

The reason I made it so you can trade WBL for Potential, is because it is wierd to have wealth added to your WBL when your sword gets thrown in lava, instead it's just added to your potential which can then be turned into enchantments or future wealth as WBL.


What happens to your total potential after using a scribe sword spell?
Will fix.


Help me out, here. What exactly does unlock magic do?
Enchants your relic without needing to know spells. It's effectively the item creation ability from the Artificer.


You need disarm defense as a class feature, because without your weapon your class is borderline commoner-tier at best.
Fighter tier at least considering it has the bonus feats, BAB, and Saves.... And anyway it starts with improves to locate their relic and they can summon their weapons whenever once they are 6th level. Is that too late?


So, do greataxe wielders get nerfed for the first few levels, dealing less damage with each strike than a commoner would?
No, where do you get that idea from?


Does a relic have to be a weapon? Because all your features are implying that it does, but it isn't described as such. Ring relics to punch with or belt relics to pelvic thrust with all come to mind.
No, it doesn't have to be a weapon. Sort of. It can be any object you can wield and are proficient with. Which is why you can be proficient with a single improvised weapon and why Divine Strike is a necessary class feature.


Incorrect design needs to come online much, much later, or just make it the standard. Changing an ability one level after it's been granted is frustrating.
I just didn't want to shove a billion things onto first level.


There are a LOT of wondrous items that won't work with relics as described. Throwing weapons, bags of holding, and feather tokens just to name a few.
Yes? :smallconfused:


If you can spend a FRA to summon it, why would you wait weeks and weeks for it to magically appear?
Well only reason you'd Want to wait is if your hands are full or something in a prison. But it's just meant to be a flavour thing that has you unable to escape your fate.


When exactly does the relic become an intelligent item?
When it gains an intelligence score. :smallconfused:


I do like the 19th level ability to make everything non-magical. I'm not sure how you flavor it, though, since you're obviously doing things that can't be done with practice, training, or ancient secrets other than magic.
The flavour is that it is purely divine and perfect and infallible, it is Above mortals definition of magic.

[gr8artist]

Could you say how?
They're proficient with shields, but they can take improvised weapon, exotic weapon, or shield proficiency?

Why reduced efficiency, that would make the character useless.
I meant that spending actual gold pieces would be less effective than spending his potential.
It isn't messing with WBL though, it's just saying "Ok, here is the money I can spend to enchant my sword".
The reason I made it so you can trade WBL for Potential, is because it is wierd to have wealth added to your WBL when your sword gets thrown in lava, instead it's just added to your potential which can then be turned into enchantments or future wealth as WBL.
Wealth by level isn't something your character has or can get his hands on, it's a rule, like favored class bonuses. If you want to let your character spend/gain money, that's fine. But saying that he spends WBL is implying that he's changing how much money the DM should let him have or something.


Enchants your relic without needing to know spells. It's effectively the item creation ability from the Artificer.
But at that level you can't create magic weapons yet, right? It needs to be more clearly worded.

Fighter tier at least considering it has the bonus feats, BAB, and Saves.... And anyway it starts with improves to locate their relic and they can summon their weapons whenever once they are 6th level. Is that too late?
No, it's fine. I hadn't gotten to the other abilities when I wrote that. Still, some disarm DC improvements would not be amiss. Also, can he summon his relic from another creature's possession?

No, where do you get that idea from?
Thought it was a default. Reread and saw the "can" which makes it optional. Ok.

No, it doesn't have to be a weapon. Sort of. It can be any object you can wield and are proficient with. Which is why you can be proficient with a single improvised weapon and why Divine Strike is a necessary class feature.
Ok. Just double check and make sure everything works just as well for rod/wand/ring/bracer/helmet/fancy wagon/whatever as it does for a sword.

I just didn't want to shove a billion things onto first level.
Then put it later. Or just rewrite the original ability to make this the standard.

Yes? :smallconfused:
So what happens if I put a necklace of fireballs or bag of holding effect in my relic sword or relic porcelain pony?

Well only reason you'd Want to wait is if your hands are full or something in a prison. But it's just meant to be a flavour thing that has you unable to escape your fate.
In my opinion, such flavor shouldn't be such a tangible, practical exploit available to your character. You could be buried in a coffin underground, but your wondrous item would just somehow appear beside you anyway. I feel like this will either piss DM's off or just get removed at the table.

When it gains an intelligence score. :smallconfused:
But you then list it as getting an ego score later. Is it intelligent when it can start dancing?

The flavour is that it is purely divine and perfect and infallible, it is Above mortals definition of magic.
Yeah, It seems like it would make more sense for it to simply be immune to any effect which would suppress, negate, disjoin, or otherwise inhibit its effects. Magic that supersedes all other magic, but it's still magic. Keep in mind that you can put scroll effects of any spell into your weapon.

[Milo v3]

Could you say how?
They're proficient with shields, but they can take improvised weapon, exotic weapon, or shield proficiency?

Notice that one is in the weapon section and one is in the armour section. I'll make it more clear.

EDIT: Actually... I'm an idiot.... PF made Shields Martial weapons.


Wealth by level isn't something your character has or can get his hands on, it's a rule, like favored class bonuses. If you want to let your character spend/gain money, that's fine. But saying that he spends WBL is implying that he's changing how much money the DM should let him have or something.
That's how I intended it, since your not spending any money that you have since that wouldn't make any sense flavourwise.


But at that level you can't create magic weapons yet, right? It needs to be more clearly worded.
Why, would artificer need the same text saying that you can't make x yet?


Also, can he summon his relic from another creature's possession?
Yes.


Thought it was a default. Reread and saw the "can" which makes it optional. Ok.

Fair enough, perhaps I should make it clearer since it's a one word difference.


Ok. Just double check and make sure everything works just as well for rod/wand/ring/bracer/helmet/fancy wagon/whatever as it does for a sword.
Well, you would have to be able to wield those things so that's the only limitation towards them.


So what happens if I put a necklace of fireballs or bag of holding effect in my relic sword or relic porcelain pony?
You don't necessarily just go, ok I want this wondrous item on my sword. While you can do that, it's meant for making custom wondrous items. Both ways probably require your GM to say, "Yes, that fits the theme of your relic". But either way.... Necklace of fireballs would probably shoot out the bead from the mouth of the horse, and bag of holding would probably be like a compartment in the saddle or something.


In my opinion, such flavor shouldn't be such a tangible, practical exploit available to your character. You could be buried in a coffin underground, but your wondrous item would just somehow appear beside you anyway. I feel like this will either piss DM's off or just get removed at the table.
How else should I show that you Cannot escape your sword if it doesn't follow you.


But you then list it as getting an ego score later. Is it intelligent when it can start dancing?

Oh, you mean when does it become a standard magic item, my mistake. Never. It gains an intelligence score and the ability to move around with divine spark, and an ego score eventually, but it isn't a "Intelligent Item" because then it would have to conform to the intelligence rules they have.


Yeah, It seems like it would make more sense for it to simply be immune to any effect which would suppress, negate, disjoin, or otherwise inhibit its effects. Magic that supersedes all other magic, but it's still magic. Keep in mind that you can put scroll effects of any spell into your weapon.
I'm not sure what change that would make.

[gr8artist]

Notice that one is in the weapon section and one is in the armour section. I'll make it more clear.
Shields are martial weapons. If they're proficient with martial weapon or with shields, then they're proficient with the shield bash. It's not a separate thing.

Wealth by level isn't something your character has or can get his hands on, it's a rule, like favored class bonuses. If you want to let your character spend/gain money, that's fine. But saying that he spends WBL is implying that he's changing how much money the DM should let him have or something.
That's how I intended it, since your not spending any money that you have since that wouldn't make any sense flavourwise.
Ok, I suppose my complaint would be that that didn't seem to be clearly and effectively communicated to the reader.

But at that level you can't create magic weapons yet, right? It needs to be more clearly worded.
Why, would artificer need the same text saying that you can't make x yet?
I don't know. The ability as currently written is clunky and gets right in to mechanical jargon and muck without ever telling you clearly what the ability is designed to do.

Also, can he summon his relic from another creature's possession?
Yes.
Probably shouldn't be able to.


Ok. Just double check and make sure everything works just as well for rod/wand/ring/bracer/helmet/fancy wagon/whatever as it does for a sword.
Well, you would have to be able to wield those things so that's the only limitation towards them.
I can hold anything and try to smash you with it. I don't think "wield" is ever properly described. You should include clarification that the relic does not need to be a weapon, but should be something that could be used as an improvised weapon. Otherwise I'm going to roll a barbarian hulking hurler who wields a broken piece of stone from an ancient temple, and just flatten people with a magical rock.

So what happens if I put a necklace of fireballs or bag of holding effect in my relic sword or relic porcelain pony?
You don't necessarily just go, ok I want this wondrous item on my sword. While you can do that, it's meant for making custom wondrous items. Both ways probably require your GM to say, "Yes, that fits the theme of your relic". But either way.... Necklace of fireballs would probably shoot out the bead from the mouth of the horse, and bag of holding would probably be like a compartment in the saddle or something.
I'm not a fan of abilities that force the DM to make decisions like this. New DM's probably wouldn't know what abilities or powers wouldn't work. Feather token? Sure I guess. 1 hour later, magical expanding tree arrows are flying from somebody's relic bow. (which would be awesome, but whatever)

In my opinion, such flavor shouldn't be such a tangible, practical exploit available to your character. You could be buried in a coffin underground, but your wondrous item would just somehow appear beside you anyway. I feel like this will either piss DM's off or just get removed at the table.
How else should I show that you Cannot escape your sword if it doesn't follow you.
Loss of class features, deteriorating health, etc. Purposefully abandoning your divine quest should result in penalties and death, not a minor nuisance that keeps popping up in strange places.

But you then list it as getting an ego score later. Is it intelligent when it can start dancing?
Oh, you mean when does it become a standard magic item, my mistake. Never. It gains an intelligence score and the ability to move around with divine spark, and an ego score eventually, but it isn't a "Intelligent Item" because then it would have to conform to the intelligence rules they have.
Making an item intelligent but saying it's not an intelligent item is going to make my head hurt. Take a look at the magus archetypes. There's one that gets a magical intelligent weapon.

Yeah, It seems like it would make more sense for it to simply be immune to any effect which would suppress, negate, disjoin, or otherwise inhibit its effects. Magic that supersedes all other magic, but it's still magic. Keep in mind that you can put scroll effects of any spell into your weapon.
I'm not sure what change that would make.
Your magic wouldn't suddenly stop being magic, for one. Even the gods powers are magical, they don't have Ex wishes and miracles laying around. When you break the laws of nature and rewrite physics and probability, that's magic, and saying that it's not is going to get someone in trouble somewhere down the line.
When abilities stop being magical, you get a lot of weird cases where there aren't any good rules to apply to them. We understand how Su, Sp, and Ex abilities work, but the rules aren't designed for Ex abilities that do Su or Sp things.

[Milo v3]

Shields are martial weapons. If they're proficient with martial weapon or with shields, then they're proficient with the shield bash. It's not a separate thing.

Yeah, I noticed and editted by response and entry just before you replied.


Ok, I suppose my complaint would be that that didn't seem to be clearly and effectively communicated to the reader.

I'll try to reword it.


I don't know. The ability as currently written is clunky and gets right in to mechanical jargon and muck without ever telling you clearly what the ability is designed to do.
I'll edit the feature to make it more evident.


Probably shouldn't be able to.

Why, it's specifically meant to stop people from stealing your divine artifact that is the basis of all your class features.


I can hold anything and try to smash you with it. I don't think "wield" is ever properly described. You should include clarification that the relic does not need to be a weapon, but should be something that could be used as an improvised weapon. Otherwise I'm going to roll a barbarian hulking hurler who wields a broken piece of stone from an ancient temple, and just flatten people with a magical rock.
Oh, I forgot to say the proficieny requirement as well. You need to be proficient with it. So, just picking up a random thing wouldn't work unless you take it as the Improvised Weapon proficiency, which you can't do if it isn't an improvised weapon.


I'm not a fan of abilities that force the DM to make decisions like this. New DM's probably wouldn't know what abilities or powers wouldn't work. Feather token? Sure I guess. 1 hour later, magical expanding tree arrows are flying from somebody's relic bow. (which would be awesome, but whatever)
Why is your DM letting you play a crafting class if they don't want to deal with crafting?


Loss of class features, deteriorating health, etc. Purposefully abandoning your divine quest should result in penalties and death, not a minor nuisance that keeps popping up in strange places.
That would be pretty sucky, IMO.


Making an item intelligent but saying it's not an intelligent item is going to make my head hurt. Take a look at the magus archetypes. There's one that gets a magical intelligent weapon.
It's an animated item with an intelligence score, eventually it gains an ego score "as if it was a normal intelligent item". It specifically says they are not normal generic magic items.


Your magic wouldn't suddenly stop being magic, for one. Even the gods powers are magical, they don't have Ex wishes and miracles laying around. When you break the laws of nature and rewrite physics and probability, that's magic, and saying that it's not is going to get someone in trouble somewhere down the line.
When abilities stop being magical, you get a lot of weird cases where there aren't any good rules to apply to them. We understand how Su, Sp, and Ex abilities work, but the rules aren't designed for Ex abilities that do Su or Sp things.
Where does it have any statistics for deities? I mean, proper deities, not avatars or demi-gods from mythic rules. Also, I'm pretty sure their is non-magical things that should be magical, like Living Sentient Fire and dragons the size of houses that can fly.

[MrNobody]

You have some spelling and grammar issues that you might want to run through again, but overall it's a neat concept. Is English your second language?
Other than picking up Implosion, there's not really a good reason to pick this class. Wizards generally scribe every spell they can get their hands on, so allowing them to scribe spells isn't a big deal. What they want is spells/day, which is what they lose by not having the arcane school feature.
Consider also giving them some domain powers?
Destroyer's envoy is nice flavor, but has little to no impact on the game.
Rovagug's Tongue is cool, but needs more clarification. Is it optional, or is it mandatory at some level? Does it replace ALL bonus feats? If so, no one would ever take this class. You can learn languages for 1 skill rank, so there's not a lot of desire to spend feats learning them.
Give him some sonic/language based magic or abilities as well.

Busted! :smalltongue: Yes, english is not my first language and even if i write with a vocabulary by my side i always incur in similar problems. I'll work on it.
If you guys have some spare time and want to PM me the errors i have to correct, it will be really appreciated.

For the archetype: it's true that wizards can write down every spell they want but that still requires some times doing research in game. The purpose here was to give a wizard a huge bunch of extra spell known: domains usually give a single extra spell known per spell level, here we have 2 - 3 extra spell known per spell level. And this is why i didn't put up domain powers, even if i recognize that the archetype still needs an extra spell per day to stay balanced.
I may also revise the spell list, including more cleric/druid/other class spells to make it worthwhile.

Rovagug's tongue is optional, and i thought it was clear when i wrote "Every time a Rovagug’s scholar would gain a Bonus feat (including Scribe scroll at first level) he can instead choose to gain knowledge of three new languages" and when i later added "When chosen, this ability replaces a Bonus Feat."
If it's not clear i'll try rephrasing.

For the centipede familiar, i just realized i haven't balanced the forceful choic and the drawbacks of that ability. I'm considering adding a template to the certipede to make it worth.

Misspelling and class balance aside, i'm glad you like the fluff :smallsmile:

[dragonjek]

I had to go pretty far down to find a criticism, and I love your entry's theme and intent.
Thank you! And thank you again for your advice.


The mandatory rank in knowledge is weird. Just take that out, since you have so many skill bonuses already. Why is linguistics not also a class skill?
Are the glyphs considered SLA's? if so, be wary of PrC requirements and allowing inappropriate entry. Also, metamagic SLA feats for PC characters! Hooray!
You neglected to mention a caster level for your SLA's, presumably CL=HD.
Removed the Knowledge (religion) rank and added Linguistics as a class skill. I actually did mention in the description that the glyphs were SLA's, but I added on the (Sp), which I should have done anyways. I removed the spell-like ability as a PrC requirement, but if they have Scribe Scroll they can treat their SLA as a known spell for purposes of scribing scrolls (a scroll of their SLA is made at only 3/4 normal price). I had completely forgot to mention CL, so that's correct (equal to HD)


Artillery would be better phrased as "each creature hit by at least one missile takes 2 additional points of damage" or something similar.
Changed.


Missed the tab/dot/list note between earth and equestrian.
Speaking of which, Equestrian is 1/day but the hours don't need to be congruent... what?
That was supposed to be the Glyph of Endurance. Changed. I also removed the /day part of the Equestrian.


Personally, I'd make Ethics be either attack/damage/AC/saves rather than attack/damage/AC/miss chance.
I was trying to do something different for chaos... is the miss chance too strong?


Glyph of frost would only work while holding a charge, right? Also, chill touch doesn't deal cold damage, it's actually negative energy.
*facepalms*
I traded Chill Touch out for Frostbite, then realized that I didn't have a glyph for negative energy.
Glyph of Frost – The Biblios may use Frostbite once per day. He may elect to deal either lethal or nonlethal damage; should he select nonlethal, Frostbite’s damage increases to 1d8 cold damage +1 per level.
Glyph of the Grave – The Biblios may use Chill Touch once per day. Those failing their saving throw against it take 2 Strength damage instead of 1. Anyone killed by this ability cannot be animated as an undead.


Guardian is OP. Also, you need to clarify how he extends the benefit.
I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by "how he extends the benefit". Could you elaborate?
Also, I don't think it is overpowered... Mage Armor provides an armor bonus to AC, which doesn't stack. Most classes can wear at least light armor without penalty, so the spell is unlikely to be more than 1 or 2 points higher than the armor they're already wearing. The only ones who would get a real benefit out of it are mages, monks, and animal companions/familiars. Would it be better if I reduced the benefit to those adjacent to him?


Inferno is a bit vague. Is it the default catching fire (1d6 per round indefinitely, DC 15 to extinguish) or something else?
I adjusted it--1d4 fire damage until the target succeeds at a DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Int modifier Reflex save.


Lunacy should read "lesser confusion" instead of "confusion, lesser"
Possession and Rainbows need cool secondary abilities too.
Adjusted Lunacy, and gave Possession and Rainbows their abilities.
Glyph of Possession – The Biblios may use Arcane Mark three times per day. As long as an item of no more than (10 + HD) lbs. that has been marked by the Biblios’s Glyph of Possession is within 100 feet, he may summon the item to his hand as a standard action. He may have a number of items affected by this glyph equal to his hit dice; applying the mark to additional objects will automatically remove the mark from another object, chosen by the Biblios.
Glyph of Rainbows – The Biblios may use Color Spray once per day. Gain a +2 racial bonus to a random ability score; roll a 1d6. 1=Strength, 2=Dexterity, 3=Constitution, 4=Intelligence, 5=Wisdom, 6=Charisma.


Slumber is OP. Make it cap at additional HD equal to his Int mod.
Structure needs a once-over, it got scrambled in the editing process.
Terror needs the same nerf as slumber.[/quote]
I modified Slumber and Terror, and fixed up Structure (I choked a little when I saw I hadn't given it a duration. :smalleek:

Glyph of Structure – The Biblios may use Mending three times per day. He adds his Intelligence modifier to the item’s hardness. Attempts to sunder an item mended by this spell-like ability are reversed; a successful sunder attempt damages item of the one who attempted it, taking only half damage itself. These effects last for 1 hour.


I gave them favored class options (how on earth did I forget that?) and also added in a glyph, which I apparently skipped over when I was moving from paper to computer.
Glyph of Arcana – The Biblios may use Magic Aura once per day. He can only have a number of items affected by the Glyph of Arcana equal to his hit dice, to a limit equal to his Intelligence modifier. Anyone holding an item modified by this glyph may end its effect as a swift action to grant themselves a +1 bonus to their caster level for the round.


Alchemist: Add one extract formula from the Alchemist formula list to the character's formula book. This formula must be at least one level below the highest formula level the Alchemist can create.
Antipaladin: Increase by +1/4 the DC of the saving throw to avoid catching a disease carried by the Antipaladin.
Barbarian: Gain a +1/5 bonus to Will saving throws.
Bard: Gain 1/6 of an additional use of Lore Master.
Cavalier: Gain 1/6 of an additional use of Tactician
Cleric: Add ½ of a spell from the spell lists of the Slavery subdomain of Law, Community, Knowledge, or (Rune and its subdomains) to the Cleric’s list of domain spells. The Cleric does not gain the domain, nor can he use any domain abilities.
Druid: Gain a +1 bonus to the skills improved by the Nature Sense class ability.
Fighter: Add any 1 weapon from any group to one of the weapon groups the Fighter already possesses.
Gunslinger: Reduce the time to repair a weapon through the Gunsmithing feat by 3 minutes, to a minimum of 2 minutes.
Inquisitor: Inflict +1 damage to divine spellcasters when using the Bane ability.
Magus: Add one spell from the Magus spell list to the character's spellbook. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the Magus can cast.
Monk: Gain 1/6 of a bonus feat from the Monk bonus feats.
Ninja: Add +1 to the Ninja’s base speed. In combat this option has no effect unless the Ninja has selected it five times (or another increment of five).
Oracle: Add 1/3 of a new language to the Oracle’s list of known languages, and add that language to those usable during combat for Oracles with the Tongues Oracle Curse.
Paladin: Gain a +1/4 bonus to saving throws against divine spells.
Ranger: Add +1/4 to a single existing favored terrain bonus.
Rogue: The Rogue gains a +1/2 bonus on Disable Device and Use Magic Device checks related to glyphs, symbols, scrolls, and other magical writings.
Samurai: The Samurai’s mount gains a +1 bonus to saving throws against a single school of magic, to a maximum of +4 against any given school.
Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the Sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the Sorcerer can cast.
Summoner: Gain 1/3 of an additional use of the Summon Monster class ability.
Witch: Add one spell from the Witch spell list to the Witch's familiar. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level she can cast. If the Witch ever replaces her familiar, the new familiar knows these bonus spells.
Wizard: Add one spell from the Wizard spell list to the character's spellbook. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the Wizard can cast.

[gr8artist]

You say scribing a scroll of their ability is 3/4 normal price... is that the price to make or the price to buy?
No, I don't think the miss chance is too strong, but it's not one of the core statistics frequently modified by spells and abilities.
Guardian allows him to extend the benefit to his allies. Is that an action? Does the duration change (like communal versions of spells)? Is there a limited range? It's OP at early levels because it means the wizard and monk don't have to spend any money on armor, and the rogue gets a few points of AC too. Later on it's not a big deal, but there needs to be some downside to sharing it.
Possession's too OP now. Unless you want biblios god-rogues stealing everything in sight.
Rainbows' second ability needs a duration.
Most races don't have a favored class option for every class, usually just the ones that fit them thematically. Halflings have options for rogue because it's a common profession for them, and it allows them more versatility. Elves have options for wizard, for similar reasons.
As such, I would suggest going through the class list and giving them bonuses only to the classes that actually fit their theme, such as alchemist, bard, cleric, magus, oracle, paladin, and wizard. For brownie points, throw in some options for the homebrewed base classes we've made in this competition.

Again, I criticize because I care, not to sound like a jerk or aloof elitist.

[dragonjek]

You say scribing a scroll of their ability is 3/4 normal price... is that the price to make or the price to buy?
I added this in. It is 3/4 of the normal price to create.


No, I don't think the miss chance is too strong, but it's not one of the core statistics frequently modified by spells and abilities.
I'll leave it be, then. I like unusual, but still helpful, effects.


Guardian allows him to extend the benefit to his allies. Is that an action? Does the duration change (like communal versions of spells)? Is there a limited range? It's OP at early levels because it means the wizard and monk don't have to spend any money on armor, and the rogue gets a few points of AC too. Later on it's not a big deal, but there needs to be some downside to sharing it.
Extending it takes a swift action for each person protected, and every additional person benefiting from it reduces the bonus of the effect by 1, to a minimum of +1.


Possession's too OP now. Unless you want biblios god-rogues stealing everything in sight.
I altered Possession (trying to limit its effects resulted in it becoming a multi-paragraph monster). Now, the Biblios can sacrifice the arcane mark to gain a +2 bonus to a skill check made that round, with a maximum number of items equal to his Hit Dice, to a limit of his Intelligence modifier.


Rainbows' second ability needs a duration.
Equal to HD.


Most races don't have a favored class option for every class, usually just the ones that fit them thematically. Halflings have options for rogue because it's a common profession for them, and it allows them more versatility. Elves have options for wizard, for similar reasons.
As such, I would suggest going through the class list and giving them bonuses only to the classes that actually fit their theme, such as alchemist, bard, cleric, magus, oracle, paladin, and wizard. For brownie points, throw in some options for the homebrewed base classes we've made in this competition.

Well, the core races have favored class options for every class except the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai (which are actually class variants anyways). The only reason all the other races don't have the same is because the Advanced Race Guide reduced the pages devoted to each race past the core races. And if you include 3rd party stuff, most races have a full complement of favored class options (or even multiple options per class, which I think is going a bit too far). However, I did remove the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai options.
And that final suggestion sounds like a good idea. I like cross-homebrew references.


Again, I criticize because I care, not to sound like a jerk or aloof elitist.
No worries, until someone start throwing insults at me I take criticism positively. Your tone wasn't offensive at all.

[3WhiteFox3]

I've changed the class and, besides needing to write my 9th level spell, I think that I'll probably call it completed (unless anyone has any major issues with it). It still needs some polish, but hopefully I've fixed some of the problems the archetype had before. If anyone would look the class over and give me some pointers on what they'd like to see or what doesn't work, I would be very grateful

Thanks.

P.S. - I'll try to get some reviews done soon,

[ShiningStarling]

Apologies all, I do not believe I will be able to enter this contest. My time is more split, and my ideas for this subject are...empty I suppose. I will still try to read and vote, and with luck I can be in the next one :smallsmile:

[gr8artist]

Ok, I updated my entry to make a few abilities mesh a little better.
He now gets a pool of points (lvl + Cha) at 3rd level that he uses for his cause fear SLA as well as his first bloodline power (which incidentally all have 3+Cha uses per day). The pool refreshes 1/day when he prepares or regains spells, and can be refreshed by countering or dispelling fear effects with remove fear.
He can spend points to increase his caster level for [fear] spells, increase the DC of [fear] spells, or gain a bonus on intimidate checks.
At later levels he gets other perks, like spending 1 point to become shaken for 1 minute (so he gets weapon abilities from Warrior/Paragon of the Profane), spending a point to increase the penalties of Baleful Suffering, or regaining points when he slays an enemy suffering from a fear effect.
The idea is that he has a pool of horrifying thoughts he can pass around or reclaim, and he can transfer one person's fear to another.

[MrNobody]

I updated my entry, fixed grammar and other minor thing, modified Rovagug's Tongue ability and added an aura of evil and chaos.

I also want to openly thank Gr8artist for the help he gave me working on my grammar and typos and giving me other suggestions. Thank you!:smallsmile:

[gr8artist]

No prob, man.

On an unrelated note, I'm bored. Like, really bored, because nothing's happening in either of my campaigns right now, and I'm waiting for people to post. (hint-hint, Phill)
I got to thinking about the next contest round, and thought it might be a good idea to go ahead and start pairing up, if we're still wanting to do that.

So, if anyone has anything in particular they'd like me to review, let me know.
If you'd like to comment on my Nightmare Priest or my additional resources, that'd be great.
If anybody wants to get started on figuring out how to do the team-up round, we can do that too.

Also, if you PM'd me in the last few weeks and I never responded, it's just me being forgetful. Let me know and we can resume the conversation. I know I was talking with a few people about working together on some resources for the NmP, and talking to some people about campaign stuff.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, are we going to do the paired up round or should we start the next round of theme decisions?

[gr8artist]

Well, if we ARE doing pair-ups, then that will likely influence the themes that we'd recommend or vote for.
For example, themes like "Opposites Attract" or "Mind over Matter" might be preferable to "Man vs Wild" or something.
Could we, perhaps, take a week to vote on whether or not to have a double-up round, and in that time try to recruit more 'brewers who might join us (since anything less than 10 is going to be rather lackluster come voting phase). I would start with sending a PM to every previous contestant, and probably starting a new thread to catch peoples' attention.
After that time, whatever the outcome, we could start voting on themes. If we're running low on time, start with 16 but cut it down to the top 4 after the first round of votes, or something like that.

[Tanuki Tales]

Wouldn't it just be easier to make the initial pair-up otherwise theme-less and let future ones have a specific theme?

[gr8artist]

Uh... Yeah, I suppose. Though personally I like the idea of having a theme to kinda' inspire or give you a reason to compare apples to oranges. For example, 1st-3rd place awards are often granted to the entries that best incorporated the theme.
I suppose combining two viewpoints could be a theme in and of itself. If we did that, though, the two would need to be directly related, either as opposites (paladin/antipaladin), progressions (class/PrC), favoritism (race/class), or some other method. Each team would use whatever method they wanted, but the two entries need to obviously relate to each other somehow.
Also, each team should probably only have 1 page of "additional resources" for a total of 2 or 3 links per team submission.

Edit: Bump!
What's the plan here, what are we doing?

[Tanuki Tales]

Dunno, no one else has weighed in really.

[3WhiteFox3]

I'm not really sure what is a meant by pair up. So I don't have anything to weigh in on. Could someone explain so that I don't have to go back through the thread?

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm not really sure what is a meant by pair up. So I don't have anything to weigh in on. Could someone explain so that I don't have to go back through the thread?

Basically you'd team up with another person and each create a piece of homebrew that plays off one another.

[3WhiteFox3]

Thanks, in that case, I prefer to have no theme besides that the pair must work together. Thus allowing the two homebrewers to have creative freedom.

For the first one at least. Adding themes could work for later contests.

[dragonjek]

I think a theme would be a good idea. It gives a framework for the competition--normally, a part of voting is decided by how well an creation matches up to the theme of the contest.

Having a theme also provides direction. And I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with 3WhiteFox3. One of the best ways to test your creativity is to work within a set of bounds and find just how unique you can make something that otherwise seems straightforward. Of course, an overly-specific theme is just too constraining to be comfortable, but a broad theme (invertebrates, for example) gives you the opportunity to do something with your project that no one else has done.

With such a framework, everyone is set onto the starting line when the competition starts; without it, everyone is running in every direction, and you have no standard by which to judge who got there first.

But if we're pairing up, I think a broad theme would be a better idea than a narrow one.

[3WhiteFox3]

My problem is that we already have a theme, two homebrew that are connected. A broad theme is unnecessary for the first time our. Let's get comfortable with the idea first, then branch out into limiting things. Just being paired up is a huge limiter in the first place.

What about a compromise... Instead of one theme we get a small list of themes to choose from for the pair. Each pair of 'brewers getting to pick a theme. Have the list be the top theme choices from voting. That gives people more room to make a decision.

[gr8artist]

That could work.
So, each team would have their own theme? That could be interesting.
We would need to know teams before picking the theme, so each team could confer on which theme they wanted to pick.

Speaking of which, how are we wanting to do teams? I don't think anyone would get their feelings hurt if we just took turns naming off who we'd like to pair with, but there's always the chance that someone won't get named and will drop out. Also, if we're getting more contestants, we wouldn't necessarily know much about them.
Randomized teams might be the most fair, but the least open to synergy or getting two like-minded 'brewers together.
We could do drafts or some kind of organized selection based on past victories, though that again might pair up two opposing brewers.

Random might be the best way to do it with new players and all. Then, in later contests, if you want to keep your old team-mate or find a new one, we could figure out a new system there.


Starting a contestant roster. Brewers who are definitely wanting to participate, and won't have too much trouble with scheduling or other commitments.

Roster gr8artist



EDIT: Had a big touch-up for the Nightmare Priest. Overall, his abilities should come online at a more regular rate, without heaven or hell levels, and he should have a smoother power curve. More focus put on his melee/tank role with Unholy Vigor while the mechanics for some of his other abilities were consolidated or attached to abilities with a similar theme. The DC to intimidate creatures already suffering a fear effect has been increased, and the use of Intimidate for this purpose now requires one point from his Horror Reserve.
Warrior and Paragon have been broken up and their composite abilities given to other features that fit better thematically. In their place a new ability was created to consolidate the buffs that he receives when suffering from a fear effect.
I'll also be adding a race and an archetype to my resources page.

[malonkey1]

I think I will actually finish something this time.

[gr8artist]

Excellent. And by "this time," do you mean the PAGaP or the double-up round?

Also, due to the new table code changes (and my desired to make everything look pretty and professional) I have exceeded the character limit on my additional resources post. SOOOooo.... I have made another post to hold half the material. Anything that DIRECTLY relates to the NmP is in the original additional material post and anything that is THEMATICALLY related is in the new additional material post.
This includes my new Weirdling race, which is interesting but not as well rounded as the Biblios.
Next up (over the next day or two) I'll be putting up a sorcerer bloodline that I put together with some advice from MrNobody.

[malonkey1]

Ideally both, but especially the double-up.

[3WhiteFox3]

The arboreal hunter is now complete. If anyone wants to comment on the new spells, I'd be very grateful.

[Tanuki Tales]

So...three days left and no real vibe started for the double up teams.

I suggest we put it off for another contest and try and bang out a theme voting in the time we have left.

Also, I know I'm behind on trophies; just been distracted and haven't had the time to sit down and work on them. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

[gr8artist]

I'm OK with that. A little disappointed, but it's all good.
These are the top 8 from last time. If we're pressed to come up with a new theme, I suggest using these, or filling out all 16 but only taking the top one or two.



Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
0


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory and success at great cost
0


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
0


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
0


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
0


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
0



There just hasn't been much activity lately from any direction, it seems.
I'll try and review everything tomorrow (Sunday). It'll be from my tablet, so it might be mildly problematic.

And, it might be faster to just pair into teams somehow, than to try and work out a voting round or two. The problem is, we haven't gotten enough concrete interest to merit teams.

[Phillammon]

Welp, looks like Priest of the Seven isn't going to be finished.

THat kinda sucks.

[Milo v3]

I, Construct
Pyrrhic Procedure
Shadow in the Night
Not your Grandad's Elements

[gr8artist]

Phil: There's still tomorrow

Milo, I'm not sure we're actually starting a voting round yet. We're still waiting for Tanta to tell us what the plan is, or for everyone to decide on a course of action.

[Tanuki Tales]

Go with the eight you have listed and then folks come up with eight more so we can start; I'll extend the contest till we have the next theme.

I haven't been in the best emotional state the last few days, so I can't make promises that I'll really be around. I'll try, but it comes and goes.

[3WhiteFox3]

Nothing can stop the Smooze - Oozes

[dragonjek]

Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past

[malonkey1]

Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance! (Dance, obviously).

Rhyme and Pun-ishment (wordplay & puns).

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
0


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory and success at great cost
0


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
0


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
0


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
0


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
0


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
0


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
0


Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Dance
0


Rhyme and Punishment
Puns and wordplay
0


You're So Meta
Divine intervention, metagame mechanics, 4th wall breaking
0


Atavism
Bestial/feral/devolved humanoids
0




0




0



Tanta, if there's anything else I can help with, let me know.
But, I'll keep the contest up and running for you, at least.

Also, NLfMtDbD is weird, when you look at the capitalization patterns

That list of previous suggestions that didn't make it. Not comprehensive.



Theme Name
Description


Atavism
Bestial/feral/devolved humanoids


Fire & Brimstone
The lower (evil) planes


Munchkin Style
Silly things


Bring Down the Hammer
Hammers (metaphorical or literal)


Phasing Out
Teleportation/planar travel etc.


No Rest for the Wicked
Crime and criminals


Fire in the Sky
Lightning and/or meteors


Monster Master
Monster collection/raising games


Charon's Wages
Assassins, mercenaries, hit men


Spaaaaace
Space


Root of All Evil
Money and greed


Augmented Reality
Psychosis, hallucinations, mind alteration


You're so Meta
Divine intervention, metagame mechanics, 4th wall breaking


Road Less Traveled
Drugs, alcohol, addiction


Mix and Match
Fusing old concepts into something new


Now You See Me
Performance magic and prestidigitation


Rhythm Revolution
Combos and rhythms


That's All, Folks
Cartoons/cartoon physics


Plato's Pride
Platonic solids/geometric shapes


Macguffin
Entries revolving around a particular, plot-centric item


Missing a Common Sense
Loss or removal of one of the 5 senses


Monsters' University
Intelligent/learned monsters


PS I Hate You
Hatred and Anger


All that we See or Seem is but a Dream within a Dream
Dreams and nightmares, and overly long competition titles


Hey, I know that _____ !
Pop culture (request title change to "I understood that reference")


Legendary League
League of Legends and other video games


That KILLS People, Carrrl...
Undead


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types


Sorcerous Specialties, Wizardly Ways
Specialized casters


Where Giants Tread
Webcomics and comic strips


Written in the Stars
Destiny, astrology, divination


To Brew, or Not to Brew
Shakespeare


My Lucky Day
Luck


A Stranger to Myself
Abnormal souls, possession and astral projection


That Deviant Smile
Deviantart


Saving People, Hunting Things
Supernatural (angels, demons, monsters, and the people that hunt them)


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters


Now Gish is More Like It
Gishes (martial and magic combined)


Palaces and Princesses
Royalty

[Phillammon]

Slight reword, but:

Sensational- Loss (or gain!) of senses.

[dragonjek]

Hm... two more slots, then?

I suggest we include Drizzt Clone & I Love the Monster. Taking the crappy or cliché and making it into something interesting and useful seems like a fun challenge. Or an agonizing one...
I do really like what Pathfinder did in Misfit Monsters Redeemed, though, and the thought of doing something similar is appealing.

[3WhiteFox3]

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space. Genies, Great power with heavy restraints.

[malonkey1]

Hm... two more slots, then?

I suggest we include Drizzt Clone & I Love the Monster. Taking the crappy or cliché and making it into something interesting and useful seems like a fun challenge. Or an agonizing one...
I do really like what Pathfinder did in Misfit Monsters Redeemed, though, and the thought of doing something similar is appealing.

Seconded on the Drizz't Clone.

[Tanuki Tales]

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space. Genies, Great power with heavy restraints.

Please include this one.

[gr8artist]

I propose that we go from the 16 nominations to the top 4, and from those top 4 that we go with the one with the most votes. Cutting out the semifinal and second rounds of voting will speed things up a lot.
To this end, we could make either 4 or 8 votes. Until this idea get shot down (or approved) I'm going to differentiate between my top 4 and my secondary 4 votes.


Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
1


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory and success at great cost
1


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
0


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
0


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
1


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
1


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
0


Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Dance
0


Rhyme and Punishment
Puns and wordplay
0


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
1


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
1


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
0


Sensational
Loss or gain of senses
1



My first 4 votes PCP, IBLS
Sensational
AWotOB
I, ConstructMy next 4 votes PP
ASitN
ILtM
NCStS

[dragonjek]

Wasn't the competition supposed to be over and a voting thread put up by now?

[Milo v3]

Wasn't the competition supposed to be over and a voting thread put up by now?

You must have missed this:


Go with the eight you have listed and then folks come up with eight more so we can start; I'll extend the contest till we have the next theme.

[dragonjek]

You must have missed this:

That would be the case, yes. Thank you.

[3WhiteFox3]

Because I Love You
PCP, IBLS
NCStS
I, Construct

Next 4 votes

Sensational
Darwinian Discoveries
Nothing left to do but dance
I Love The Monster

[ShiningStarling]

Pyrrhic Procedure
Shadow in the Night
Not your Grandad's Elements
A Whiff o' the ole Brimstone

Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Rhyme and Punishment
Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes
primary
Votes
total


I, Construct
Constructs
2
2


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory and success at great cost
1
2


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1
2


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
0
1


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
0
0


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
1
1


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
1
1


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
2
2


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
1
2


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
0
1


Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Dance
0
2


Rhyme and Punishment
Puns and wordplay
0
1


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
2
3


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
0
2


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
0
0


Sensational
Loss or gain of senses
1
2

[The Witch-King]

Darwinian Discoveries
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
I Love the Monster
Drizzt Clone

Cthubrew F'tagn
Pyrrhic Procedure
A Shadow in the Night
Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age

[malonkey1]

Primary

Not Your Grandad's Elements
Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Drizz't Clone



Secondary

Darwinian Discoveries
Nothing can stop the Smooze
A Whiff o the Ol' Brimstone
I, Construct

[dragonjek]

Primaries
Drizzt Clone
Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Cthubrew F'tagn
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze


Secondaries
Not Your Grandad's Elements
Because I Love You
Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
I Love the Monster

[Stake A Vamp]

Primaries
Not Your Grandad's Elements
I love the monster
Cthubrew F'tagn
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze


Secondaries
pyrric procidure
rhyme and punishment
Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
drizzt clone

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes
primary
Votes
total


I, Construct
Constructs
2
3


Pyrrhic Procedure
Victory and success at great cost
1
4


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1
3


Darwinian Discoveries
New creature types and subtypes
1
3


Cthubrew F'tagn
Lovecraft Mythos
2
3


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
3
4


Because I Love You
Love, in all its different forms
1
2


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
3
4


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
3
5


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
2
4


Nothing Left for Me to Do but Dance
Dance
1
3


Rhyme and Punishment
Puns and wordplay
0
2


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
2
5


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
2
5


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
3
4


Sensational
Loss or gain of senses
1
2

[Phillammon]

I, Construct
Sensational
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
A Shadow in the Night

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Because I Love You
I Love the Monster
Drizzt Clone

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes



I, Construct
Constructs
1


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
1


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
1


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
0


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
0


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
1


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
0


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
0



Top 9 tallied. Pick just 4, no more primary/secondary votes.
We'll take the top 4 and do our final vote for next round's theme.

[The Witch-King]

A Shadow in the Night
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
I Love the Monster
Drizzt Clone

[dragonjek]

Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Drizzt Clone
I Love the Monster
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze

[malonkey1]

Not Your Grandad's Elements
Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Drizz't Clone
I, Construct


I have some pretty good ideas for each of these.

[Stake A Vamp]

Not Your Grandad's Elements
I love the monster
Phenominal Cosmic Power, Itty-Bitty Living Space
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
2


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
2


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
2


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
2


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
2


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
2


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
3


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
3



Drizzt and Monster Lovin' are taking the lead, but barely.

[ShiningStarling]

Not your Grandad's Elements
A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space

[Ilorin Lorati]

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Not your Grandad's Elements
I, Construct
Drizzt Clone

[dragonjek]

Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
I, Construct
Not your Grandad's Elements

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
4


A Shadow in the Night
Sneaking, subterfuge, and stealth
2


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
5


A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
Explosives
3


Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
Oozes
3


Elegant Homebrew for a More Civilized Age
History and the past
4


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
4


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
3


Drizzt Clone
Resurrecting and salvaging cliche'd character archetypes
4

[3WhiteFox3]

Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Nothing Can Stop the Smooze
I love the monster
A Shadow In The Night

[MooseBite]

-I, Construct
-A Whiff o' the Ol' Brimstone
-Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
-I Love the Monster

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
1


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
0


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
0


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
0



Final round of voting. Pick 1, and the most votes takes it.
We had 10 people vote in the last round.
Also, since we're almost done here, anyone with anything else to add to their PaGaP entry should get busy.

[dragonjek]

I Love the Monster

[malonkey1]

Not Your Granddad's Elements

[ShiningStarling]

Not Your Grandad's Elements

[Phillammon]

I, Construct

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
2


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
2


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
0


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
1

[MooseBite]

I, Construct

[The Witch-King]

I, Construct

[Ilorin Lorati]

There's only one thing I could truly vote for.


PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS,Itty bitty living space. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTfXLLJlzM)

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
4


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
2


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
1


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
1



Looking like Constructs are in the lead. I'll end it tomorrow if there's not a tie.

[Stake A Vamp]

not your grandads elements

[Phillammon]

FINALLY finished the Priest of the Seven, for real this time, and just in the nick of time, at that. Sorry that it took this long. Could I ask someone to take a quick glance over it, just in case I can fit in some last minute tweaks? I'm aware that there are likely to be considerable balance issues involved, but I can't spot any in particular- someone pointing out some of the more glaring issues would be great.

(Fun fact, by the way. There are the same total number of Blessings for PotS as there are Glyphs for the Biblios, at 42 each.)

[dragonjek]

(Fun fact, by the way. There are the same total number of Blessings for PotS as there are Glyphs for the Biblios, at 42 each.)

I like this.

[gr8artist]

Proposed name
Theme
Votes


I, Construct
Constructs
4


Not your Grandad's Elements
Chemical elements from the periodical table
3


Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, Itty Bitty Living Space
Genies, Great power with heavy restraints
1


I Love the Monster
Appreciation for undervalued and unpopular monsters
1



Looks like Constructs take it.

Regarding the Priest of the Seven
I love the flavor you give, especially the last line, comparing deities to pantheons. Really sets the mood.
The only problem is that just a few lines lower, we see the "must worship one of the seven" in your prereq's... Uh, what?
You have 3 dead levels in a 10-level 5/10 casting PrC. This makes me sad.
You have no explanation for what happens if I enter the class without the feats that the Patrons require. Consider adding those 7 feats to your class' prerequisites, and saying that he must have at least one or two of them.
some of your feat requirements seem... weird. Endurance on Wrath is strange to me, even considering the focus aspect you're going for. Consider combat expertise, improved initiative, weapon focus, or point-blank-shot instead.
Double check the phrasing for sloth's resting ability... "additionally, additionally" implies that the immunity is gained at the same time as the healing.
You seem to flip-flop between using the proper names and the sin shorthand. For example, your blessings are categorized by sin, but their associations are by name, so we have to check back and forth to know which sins/patrons work together in which ways.
Can you gild natural weapons *cough* teeth *cough*
I would add some patron-neutral blessings to the list, to work with that idea of "champion of the pantheon as a whole" thing that's so awesome about your entry.
Hell's jaws... range?
Playing with your food doesn't seem to work. If you spend an action doing something other than grappling... then are you still grappling? Do you need a check?
Blood ties... action is free? Swift? how often? does it work with U&D?
Hands of Midas is so staggeringly overpowered it's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that it works on undead, like ghosts, which just makes my head hurt.
Equivalent Exchange is really fun... but the frequency is needlessly complicated, and it's way too powerful when paired with the default (and even pointed out) HoM ability. 2 turns, petrified and then exploded. You can never be fixed, and i don't know if the coins count as body parts for resurrection spells. It's fun, but a little OP.

I wish I had time to go farther, but the missus is calling.

[Phillammon]

Thanks for that. A couple of those were oversights, a couple were leftovers from previous rewrites, and a lot of those were just plain stupidity on my part. With Gilding Natural Attacks, see "Gilded Skin" (Lauren/Tycho). I've done my level best to repair some of the more egregious ones and add the changes you suggested there- I appreciate just straight up adding "not" to equivalent exchange to stop them exploding HoM'd statues is a bit of a cop-out, but hey, it works. I'll see what I can do regarding Patron-independent blessings- I could possibly kill two birds with one stone by putting some Seven-as-a-whole stuff into the dead levels. That said, with Blessings roughly on par with Incantations in power (or at least aiming for that), those levels might not be quite as dead as previously thought.

[malonkey1]

Hm...I'm thinking:
A prestige class that uses mechanical grafts to combat spellcasters
A race of homunculus-like creatures that possess the ability to manipulate machinery
Or a summoner archetype that has a mini-golem companion instead of an Eidolon.

[Milo v3]

Might make a class that's a mix between Akasha and Transformers.

[Phillammon]

I'm liking the idea of a sort of Golem-mother type class, I think. Or possibly a Philip K ****/Asimov/I don't know Kamachi?/all at once style android race, though I'm guessing that's been done before. Repeatedly.

Unrelated, I went ahead and added some Universal Blessings as a last minute thing. I am aware that Gomorrah's Champion is broken beyond belief, but "Blaze of Glory" style abilities really should be, in all fairness. Think of it as the Winter Warrior on steroids or something.

[gr8artist]

A prestige class that uses mechanical grafts to combat spellcasters
A race of homunculus-like creatures that possess the ability to manipulate machinery
Or a summoner archetype that has a mini-golem companion instead of an Eidolon.
That last one is almost exactly what I have been planning to do; a summoner who builds a mechanical shell and summons the spirit of an Inevitable to give it life. It would count as a construct and as an outsider, and would get modifications instead of evolutions. It would be more customizable, but you'd have to haul the inanimate shell around all day, which might be a balancing factor of sorts.
If you want the concept, however, I can come up with something else. I was debating the idea of "conceptual constructs"... Basically what Green Lantern does, the creation of temporarily solid objects and creatures via magical power. If I do what I did last time, and tie the second place theme into my entry, then alchemical constructs able to absorb molecules from equipment would make an intimidating big brother to the traditional rust monster.
An artifact suit of armor would also be really cool. It could be made up of multiple parts, each a wondrous item in its own right. Perhaps the power source is an artifact, and the wondrous items derive their power from it.

[dragonjek]

If you want the concept, however, I can come up with something else. I was debating the idea of "conceptual constructs"... Basically what Green Lantern does, the creation of temporarily solid objects and creatures via magical power. If I do what I did last time, and tie the second place theme into my entry, then alchemical constructs able to absorb molecules from equipment would make an intimidating big brother to the traditional rust monster.
An artifact suit of armor would also be really cool. It could be made up of multiple parts, each a wondrous item in its own right. Perhaps the power source is an artifact, and the wondrous items derive their power from it.

When you say "conceptual", do you mean shaping things from your imagination, or literally making concepts into constructs? I had some vague plans on the second, but I have some other ideas I could work with instead.

[Phillammon]

Alternative possible idea: variant on the "necromancer" theme, a class based around harvesting brains and souls to implant into machines, as a "minion master" style character

EDIT: Wait, you can't say Philip K ****'s name? Does the S****horpe problem apply too, or...

EDIT AGAIN: Apparently it does. I wonder if it can be gotten around with tags.

EDIT YET AGAIN: Apparently not. Joy.

[gr8artist]

When you say "conceptual", do you mean shaping things from your imagination, or literally making concepts into constructs? I had some vague plans on the second, but I have some other ideas I could work with instead.
Uh, more intangible constructs. For example, creatures created in that way would be ethereal but would have force effects in the material plane. The user wouldn't create a solid, tangible object, I think I may have described that wrong before. Obviously I dont' have the specifics, but I guess I can hash it out later if need be.

Guess we're waiting on Tanta to start the new thread.

[gr8artist]

Well, I suppose anyone could copy/edit the old threads so as to start a new one.
If we dont' hear from Tanta tonight, I suppose I could do it.
I'd probably use links to the templates, rather than posting like 7 times in a row, though

[Tanuki Tales]

I have some time now, so give me a few.

[gr8artist]

Voting thread is up! Time to let us know what you think.

Also, if next month's theme is doubling up, we need to figure out how to decide teams.

[Tanuki Tales]

Also, we're getting to 50 pages, so any suggestions on the name for the third thread?

[malonkey1]

Pathfinder Grab Bag Competetition Chat Thread III: The Unsurprising Death Round!

[gr8artist]

Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread III: Refuse to Abbreviate!

Also, who would be interested in joining the playtest campaign? We're at a good spot to pick up new players, and 3 is a few too few, I think.

Also, who would be interested in helping me compile and organize our past entries into a cohesive world or lighthearted game setting. We'd use as much HB as we could, but we'd keep any standard stuff that's referenced by our entries or which our entries are derived from.

[dragonjek]

Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread III: Home of the Dire Gazebo!

[Phillammon]

Cmon guys, not long left to vote... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370325-Pathfinder-Grab-Bag-Competition-XXVI-Voting-Thread)

[ShiningStarling]

I voted, yay democracy!

I figured I might as well cast my idea out here for all to see, and ask a question or two as well.

My idea for this contest is Metaphysical Constructs, that being constructs more of ideas than material. They would be made out of things more like Woven Starlight, Curdled Moonlight, Beams of Sunlight, Sheets of Rain, and so on, more aetherial, ephemeral things, with the idea being that constructing them would take secrets no one has researched outside of say very secluded druid circles or the most abstract cloistered wizards, and would take more in the way of XP, time, and special conditions for building them than actual gold Gold.

I guess my two questions are:
What are people's general thoughts about this?
Should the constructs themselves be the entries, or supplemental to say, a prestige class that researches them more exclusively, or something like that?

[gr8artist]

That reminds me of the legend of glipnir (?), the magical chain the dwarves made to bind the Fenris Wolf. Mountain roots, the sounds of a cat's step, and a woman's beard doth a great chain make.

Its a hard call, between monsters and the creator that makes them. I want to see a sampling of creatures, but if you have time and want to write them up as the possible companions/familiars of a new druid/wizard archetype.

[MrNobody]

I posted my entry for the current contest: Candy Witch.
It's a witch archetype based on animating gingerbread men as animated constructs and brew special sweets.

I hope i find some time tomorrow to vote for the previous constest!

[gr8artist]

... did not expect to see that.

I'm kinda' floundering on my summoner archetype. I can put it together, a construct with an outsider's spirit, but there's a lot of clarifications and rulings that need to be sorted, and it feels really bogged down. Summoning an entire Inevitable would be far easier, mechanically, but loses the "I built this with my hands" vibe that I really wanted. Also, I'm having trouble figuring out what else to do for the summoner's abilities (such as replacing his SM I-IX SLA's) and overall it has just started to feel like something I can't express in the way that I'd wanted to.
That being said, I'll be switching gears to a different entry type, so anybody that was thinking of building a construct-themed summoner has my wholehearted support. I love the concept, but I don't think I can really do it right.

ALSO, don't forget that today is the last day of voting! C'mon people, this is one of the best rounds we've had so far. Everyone should turn out and show their support for the entries they thing should win.