Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread II: New Thread smell included!

[MrNobody]

... did not expect to see that.

The Candy Witch? I hope it's a good thing!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I finally managed to vote: sorry for being that late!!!

[gr8artist]

It IS a good thing. You'll have a hard time not winning MUE with something like that. Now, whether you get any 1st-3rd place votes for "theme adherance" is up for a lot more speculation. But, regardless of the voting, it's an interesting and humorous entry, and I like it.

My own entry, the Shalites, have now been finished. I asked around and got some advice, which will likely be incorporated into supplemental materials. The race gets some nice perks, but has some notable downsides (skill penalties, reduced healing, net +0 ability score mods) that start to stack up if you really focus on getting all the benefits available. I'm not sure that it's balanced, though I think it's around 10 race points, maybe a little higher, though several of its abilities are situational, often houseruled away, or are so minor they might as well be considered +/– 0 traits. Stuff like forced marches, starvation, etc.

[Milo v3]

(For example, what's the difference between Scribe Sword and Brew Blade, exactly?)

Scribe sword functions like scrolls, so you have to check for mishap and make use magic device checks. While Brew Blade functions like potions.

[gr8artist]

I generally find that the most likeable, understandable entries are the ones that have the fewest "pools", "points", or "uses" for their abilities. For example, rather than having the NmP's bloodline powers be usable 3+Cha per day as listed, I made them use points from my Horror Reserve instead.
The less math a player has to deal with, the better.

On a side note, I am in the process of making additional material for my entry. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, anybody wanna join our playtest campaign? It's a good time.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, the winners from the last round of voting has been declared.

Any consolidated opinions on the name for the next thread?

[MrNobody]

@ gr8artist

I really like your entry: a good fluff, mechanics are balanced and interesting... without any doubt something worth to be played!

But (yeah, but...) i have a problem with it: i fail to see it's connection to the theme of the contest (Constructs).
Shalites are outsiders, sons of outsiders, a lot of the racial traits stress their connection with elemental energies (Oread blood, Earth affinity, Elemental Kinship, Earth summoner, Stonesinger...), and the same goes for Vesuvi and Harmattans (the latter is linked to wind and fire elemental affinity, so it's appears not linked to Shalites).

Even their core abilities (Gradual Petrification and Statuesque aspect) are more suitable for an elemental outisider than for construct.
The key of being a construct is being made out of non-living material but still being alive in some way: as you write in Statuesque Aspect a Shalites become "full stone" only when dead (of old age) and even so he remains dead (read: not animated) unless someone animates it.

As i said I DO LOVE your entry, just i feel like you are going off topic, and it would be expecially bad since you are able to brew great things!

This is just my opinion: if you want to reply explaining where i was wrong i would be happy to read!:smallsmile:

[gr8artist]

Oh no, you're not wrong. Originally, the concept was living creatures that became more and more like constructs as they aged. But, in the interest of flavor and fluff, the conversion was lost. I have been debating ways to correct my mistake, and make the shalites become constructs, but I'm afraid that with a core of elemental outsider fluff, it'll never actually work out.
The Shalites have spawned some ideas for other races, and I'm thinking of starting a separate thread for elemental outsiders and the classes and options available to them.
But yeah, I'm afraid I may go back to the drawing board on the "construct" theme. The easiest option is to roll a construct-themed class or creature that reanimates the shalite bodies after death/petrification, but that's sounding a lot like necromancy... and while the idea of elemental/construct/undead hybrids intrigues and excites me, I don't think it's a viable entry.
Until something better occurs to me, I suppose I'll keep making materials for the Shalites, which will be handy when I start the elemental handbook.

[MrNobody]

I understand: sometimes the brewing process brings you where you didn't intend to go :smallsmile:

I like the original concept, however (living creatures that became more and more like constructs as they aged). It somehow looks like a reverse Pinocchio! I think you should continue to work on that idea!

On a side note, i added supplemental material for my entry: suggestions and comments are always accepted!

[gr8artist]

What about a derivative of the Axiomite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/axiomite) (either half-blood/planetouched or infused with Axiomite crystal dust) that is able to convert part of its body into weapons and objects made of crystal dust? The drawback is that each use costs them health (the HP of the object created are subtracted from their own HP on a 1:1 basis) and possibly longevity (1 year per use). Excessive use causes a crystallization of their flesh, granting them a pool of HP to use for this purpose, and making them more and more like a construct. Perhaps when the HP pool equals their Constitution score, they are then treated as a construct from then on.

Fluff-less mechanics (first draft) for reference.
Crystal Shaping (Su): Mandalites are partially composed of the same crystalline dust from which Axiomites take shape. By purging this dust from their body, the mandalite can quickly transform it into a new shape or device, at the cost of their own well-being. As a full-round action, the mandalite can sacrifice any amount of hit points he has available, and dedicate that many points to an item he wishes to create. He must succeed on an appropriate craft check (using the crafting DC table) or the result is merely a pile of dust that must be reabsorbed before being used again. If he succeeds, the desired object appears in his hand, or in an area he can reach. He cannot regain the hit points he sacrifices in this way except by reabsorbing the crystalline dust construct as a full-round action, and he must be touching the object to do so. Objects created in this way decompose into dust after 24 hours, but otherwise have the hardness, qualities, and hit points of a normal object of that type.
Each time he reabsorbs the crystal dust, he must succeed a fortitude save (DC equal to 5 +1/5 HP regained) or his crystallization level increases by 1. He takes a penalty on this fortitude save equal to his crystallization level.
When his crystallization level equals or exceeds his Constitution score, his type changes to construct (augmented). Do not change his hit dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill ranks. He gains all the normal construct traits except as noted here. He does not gain immunity to mind-affecting effects or mental ability damage and drain. He may still regain health with his crystal shaping ability, but otherwise he does not heal naturally. He may be repaired as a construct (including spells like mending and make whole), but he cannot gain more than 25% of his maximum health in this way each day. He does not lose any proficiencies.

Still a little heavy on the "outsider" aspects, but it definitely becomes a construct.

[dragonjek]

Alright, the winners from the last round of voting has been declared.

Any consolidated opinions on the name for the next thread?

I... won? :smalleek::smallbiggrin:
Thank you!

As for names... if we're voting, I'd go with the "Refusing to Abbreviate" one.

[gr8artist]

Congrats, you did really well. I hope to see more material from you as the contest continues.
Regarding my own entry, I have replaced the Shalites (who were deemed too elemental, and not really constructs) with the necromite golem. Still finishing up details, but its a golem that uses weaponized, necromantic axiomite dust to alter itself and defeat its foes.

[caledscratcher]

Oh, hey, I'm back. I've actually sorta been back for quite some time, just lurking. Sorry 'bout that. But on the bright side, I'll have a new race up for you guys soon! It'll be a treat, that's for sure. Hehehe... :D

[gr8artist]

caled, you wouldn't happen to want back into the campaign, would you? We're reaching a point where there's an opportunity to add new characters to the dungeon, and we're looking for some more people to fill the ranks, because three is a little low. You already have a character rolled up and everything.

Also, does the necromite golem seem too undead for the contest? I have been debating taking another stab at the same concept, but using not-undead axiomite dust or something similar to accomplish the mechanics.

Lastly, I vaguely remember mentioning doing some artwork for the contest winner. Let me see....

So, I drew a picture for my Nightmare Priest entry. It's been heavily edited in the GNU image editing software (free, knock-off photoshop), but I really like how it turned out.
Moosebite tells me I should draw more, and I could use the extra practice. So, I'm going to offer to draw a picture of the winning entry in all current and future competitions. Entries I like may also get a picture, if I have time. Pictures can be pencil (black and white, I can do this in a few hours), inked (using a pen to trace the pencil sketch for better detail and crispness), colored (an inked image with color added via colored pencils, markers, or crayons [because freakin' crayons are awesome, ok]), or edited (scanned and given special effects via photo-editing software).

I can't do OotS style avatars yet, but I can do simple, cartoony pictures as well, if desired.
So, the winner was dragonjek's Biblios race. How would you like your artwork, sir?
As an update, I have the softward to make avatars, but I'm still clumsy with it and learning slow. My first avvy was... unspeakable.

Also, Tanta's been swamped with classes, so I've taken up the trophy making.
I think we need trophies for 24: Taste My Steel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348939-Pathfinder-Grab-Bag-Competition-XXIV-Voting-thread), 25: Tactical Genius (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361541-Pathfinder-Grab-Bag-Competition-XXV-Voting-thread), and 26: Pick a God and Pray (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370325-Pathfinder-Grab-Bag-Competition-XXVI-Voting-Thread)... am I missing anything?

[caledscratcher]

Oof, sorry gr8, I'm moving into my new apartment tomorrow and then I'm gonna have a bunch of school stuff going on, in addition to the two games I'm already in and the Iron Gods game I'm gm'ing. Add in my freelancing and homebrewing and I've basically got no time. :(

[gr8artist]

No problem.

My buddy said the Necromite Golem is too complicated. He does have several less-crucial abilities tacked on. All-around Vision, Compression, Fortification, and Necromite Blast aren't 100% necessary for the creature to function as intended. Do you think I should get rid of a couple of these abilities? I'm thinking AaV and NB can be dropped and the golem's self-modifying nature would still be preserved through Compression and Fortification.

Also, who would be interested in doing the team-up round next? Should we make a separate thread to try and gather new homebrewers?

[Milo v3]

Also, who would be interested in doing the team-up round next? Should we make a separate thread to try and gather new homebrewers?

Although I wasn't gonna do it initially, I'll probably need to learn how to deal with humans some day, I'll put my hand in to do some team-up stuff next round. Should be rather possible with my exams finally over.

[dragonjek]

Although I wasn't gonna do it initially, I'll probably need to learn how to deal with humans some day, I'll put my hand in to do some team-up stuff next round. Should be rather possible with my exams finally over.

There are an awful lot of humans on this planet. You'll probably want to figure out how to handle them if you want to blend in.

I'm in for a team-up, although I'm not certain if making another thread is necessary. I suppose we could try it out as a test, but I don't see why it couldn't just be blended into the normal grab bag competition.

[Milo v3]

I'm in for a team-up, although I'm not certain if making another thread is necessary. I suppose we could try it out as a test, but I don't see why it couldn't just be blended into the normal grab bag competition.
I believe the new thread would just be for recruiting more homebrewers, not a separate competition.


There are an awful lot of humans on this planet. You'll probably want to figure out how to handle them if you want to blend in.
Blending in is boring :smallbiggrin:

[dragonjek]

Blending in is boring :smallbiggrin:
True, but it is an effective way to avoid being vivisected. Which is, generally speaking, an unpleasant experience.

[gr8artist]

Roster of Players Interested in a Teamwork/Double-Up Round.

gr8artist
dragonjek
Milo V3


Let me know if you're interested. If we can get about 8 players or so, then we'll actually have enough for a contest.
The next phase would be to pick teams, and we'd need to know how to do that. Some proposed methods...

Option A – Rolling. Would-be contestants take turns using the {roll} function to see who their team-mate would be (from the numbered list). If we're concerned about team balance (not letting the regular winners be on a team together) then we can start with the players with the fewest wins first.
Option B – Negotiation. We just talk and see who'd be interested in teaming up with someone else. While this might make for the most synergistic teams, it has a (small) chance of offending some contestants, much like being the last kid picked for a sports team.
Option C – Draft. We pick a turn order, and the players take turns in that order picking their team-mate from the available list. For example, we roll for pick order and whoever gets the highest result picks his team-mate first. Then whoever had the 2nd highest result picks his team-mate (unless he was already picked by the first contestant). This has the same possible problem as Option B.
Option D – Voting. Each player rates the other players in the order that he'd most like to team with them. Players that want to be with each-other are then teamed up, starting with the most synergistic (rating each other highest) and working our way down. Still a chance of the geeky-kid problem, but this way it's a little more fair and less problematic. The votes would be secret, and teams would be revealed simultaneously.
Option E – Balance. Players with the most wins/points are paired with the players with the least wins/points. Mechanically fair, compared to the other options.

Any methods not covered by some variant of the above?

[malonkey1]

I'm game for a teamup round. I think rolling or negotiation would be best as far as determining teams.

[dragonjek]

I think Option A is the best choice.

The others have their temptations, but I think that Options B, C, and D are likely to result in a division between the regular participants (who at the least all know one another and are somewhat familiar with one another's work) and the newcomers who won't be as familiar. Option E is also nice, but the issue there is that contest points alone aren't enough to determine skill--someone with a huge portfolio of homebrew but who hasn't participated in contests could wind up paired with one of the regular victors to merge into some sort of titanic homebrewing god.

Option A, although uncontrolled, has the fairness of randomness.

[caledscratcher]

A team-up round sounds great! I'm all for rolling, as well.

[gr8artist]

Team-up roster
gr8artist
malonkey1
dragonjek
Milo V3
caledscratcher

So, I know I've had more draft and scrapped entry concepts for this month's contest than I think anyone has had in any month to date, but I've come up with a new one that I really like. It's a refinement of something I'd mentioned earlier, force golems/constructs that are semi-tangible, like the objects Green Lantern can make (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67344/2874753-2874718_12_green_lantern_00.pdf_018.jpg) with his power ring. I'm still working out the details, but here are the highlights.
It would likely be an ethereal construct, able to become solid by forming a shell or armor out of force (like little wall of forces molded into armor plates). The ability to switch forms would give it a lot of mobility and situational defensive perks.
No strength, but a variable strength bonus. As an ethereal creature, it would have no strength score. But it will have a pool of kinetic energy that it can spend for force-related spells and abilities (magic missile, etc.). It gets a bonus to strength equal to the number of points in its pool. So, effectively, it loses strength to fuel its powers and abilities.
Kinetic absorption. The construct will have a good deflection bonus to AC and Spell Resistance. If it blocks an attack with this deflection bonus, then it regains some points to its kinetic energy pool. If it ignores a spell with its SR, then it regains points equal to the spell's level.

So yeah, a giant construct with variable strength and defenses that absorbs the energy from your attacks to empower itself.

[Almarck]

Alright, so I've been paying attention to the contest for a while and this time I wanted to join in, even signing up to the forums as a result. I would hope to do well in this competition and would wish you all the best of luck.

I would appreciate comments, concerns, and the like.

P.S. Milo v3, did Asura's Wrath have anything to do with the Mandjet? It just strikes me as something as an influence every time I read it.

[gr8artist]

Starting at the bottom and working up.
Upgraded Body is not good enough to necessitate character level 3rd. I imagine a character could upgrade himself in this way during his training or while taking his first class level. If you don't want it to be available at first level, might I suggest a GP expenditure? For example, you must invest 1000 GP in the modification of your body, over the course of 1 month. At the end of this time, you are considered medium size.
Is there an ability score adjustment from small to medium? I'm assuming not, since the small version has no Dex bonus or Str penalty.

I like that you put Living Essence in there. Good call.
Hungering Essence: Whenever a living creature with hit dice no less than half of yours dies, you gain temporary hit points equal to the amount of hit dice it possessed. These hitpoints fade in 1 hour.

Part of me wants Efficient Repairs and Living Essence to oppose each other. Not for balance, but because I like the idea of having to choose whether to be more machine or more living. It's a personal impression, having nothing to do with mechanics, likability, or balance.

Durability Enhancement probably doesn't need the level restriction, and certainly doesn't need it that steep. 3/7/11 would probably work better (you don't get feats at 10th level). I'm also not really sure what a rogue would be aiming at, given that your race are hollow.

I personally do not think every race should have a favored class option for every class, and think it was bad form on Paizo's part to do so with its core races. You'll notice, however, that the uncommon and featured races do not have an option for every class, and I think that's more fitting with the theme of favored classes, which is a 3.5 notion carried over, to represent that certain races tend to gravitate toward certain roles (halfling rogues and dwarven clerics, for example). I would also advise trying to come up with some more memorable FCBs. The ones you have are obviously balanced (though I'm not sure how the monk one would work with multiple ranks or multiple hits) but the race is quite interesting and deserves more flavorful bonuses. Consider raising armor (Ftr), damage reduction (Bbn), or unarmed damage (Bwl). The gunslinger, skald, rogue, and monk FCBs are cool, give us more like them.

Double check your weight modifiers. I think the intention is that whatever you roll for extra height is multiplied by a certain value (8 as you have listed). A simple "x8" would work in those boxes. And shouldn't the race weigh roughly as much as a small suit of armor? Maybe two or three times as much, sure, since they're thicker and hardier.

The artificer trait should grant a bonus to all craft checks relating to armor or Risen, or else it's not really worth taking. Perhaps grant it a different type of bonus, like 1d8 extra health on a successful repair check. I'd also consider a mending SLA, though it might be too good of a boon.

I feel like there are inherent qualities that are missing here, like hardness and resistance to fatigue. And why are they not immune to bleed damage? It's like the most minor status effect.

Can they drink a potion to gain its benefits?

I would take out caster selection, and have them default to constructs if a spell would have differing effects based on type.

I would give them some skill bonuses, like Knowledge (History or Engineering) or Craft. Disable Device seems appropriate, as does Use Magic Device, perhaps as an alternate racial trait. They should also get a bonus to identify the properties of artifacts or ancient magical items.

Lastly, I don't think you need to capitalize Ritual, Summer, and Winter in your opening descriptions.

All in all it's a fun race that I thoroughly enjoy, but it feels a little dull in the mechanics department. You have amazing backstory and fluff, well-thought relations and society, but when a player sits down to roll one up it feels a little like a living metal man, not metal enough to warrant a new playstyle, nor human enough to fit into traditional roles. I know the race builder puts "Constructs" as something of a 20-point race type, which makes it really hard to fit one in with the common 8-10 point races, and your hybridization (treated as an undead sometimes, or a human sometimes) really helps there.
Something you may want to consider, is playing up the effects of time and the wear and tear they've gone through. By making them rusted, you can get away with making them metal without having hardness. Then give them feats to show material improvements, like replacing their metal parts with newly crafted steel, mythral, or adamantine for an expense of coin. If I'm playing Alphonse Elric, I want to be a towering behemoth of invulnerable metal, shrugging off the attacks of mortal foes as I hammer their faces apart with blows from my gauntlet. If I have to spend 8 or 10 feats to do so, I will, because it's cool. I can't help but struggle with the impression that this awesome race gets halfway to awesome mechanics and then kinda... flames out. Don't get me wrong, flavor beats crunch when it really comes down to it, but the idea of being a metal man carries certain connotations and not living up to them seems like a disservice.


Regardless of the direction you go after reading all that, I think you made an impressive first showing and think you'll do quite well.
Want me to add you to the team-up roster?

I'll try and do reviews this week. I could have sworn I'd already done them, but apparently not.
I'm so far behind on everything.

[Prehysterical]

With a little less than a week before the contest is over, does anyone have any thoughts or criticisms of my Clockwork Guardian entry?

[Milo v3]

P.S. Milo v3, did Asura's Wrath have anything to do with the Mandjet? It just strikes me as something as an influence every time I read it.

Nope, transformers and cyborgs.

[Almarck]

Nope, transformers and cyborgs.

Coulda fooled me. Thinking on it, that game has basically got Transformers and cyborgs with a very divine theme. Mandjet really reminds me of that.

Prehysterical: You currently are suffering from perhaps the same problem as me. There simply needs to be... more so to speak to make your construct stand out. Perhaps consider... more exotic weaponry and armoroptions or having them under the assumption they are deployed as squads.


Read the post, but too long to copy or "rtp;tlc"
As for you, gr8artist, your post was very insightful and helpful to my purposes, thank you.

I suppose my biggest worry was... overdoing the construct advantages and wanting to compensate for them too highly without putting as much time to create more backstory related advantages.

To that extent, I'm probably going to ramp up their inhuman aspects when I have the spare time to do so, and apply certain corrections that you suggested.

Also... the main reason I never included an entry about potions is because, I am unsure how pathfinder handles it as well. It's the main reason I specifically added they take full damage from negative energy, I am simply unsure. I suppose, the answer is "yes" since they have a soul for the magic to apply to.

As for your question about sneak attack, this didn't get posted up because I didn't know where to fit it, the reason why they take SA damage is for the same reason Risen also take bleed damage. Think of th their suits are basically giant diving suits that house the entirity of their being while underwater. A critical hit, sneak attack, or bleed damage is basically a very serious oxygen leak in their gear. Also, constructs are apparently not immune to SA or Crit damage, so there's that.

Some interesting notes.
The Risen Men were originally Medium sized and in the original planning stages, they were going to be digital machines, basically AI like beings created via brain uploading. That changed when I was influenced by previews of the game Endless Legend. I also toyed with the idea of letting them take damage from BOTH negative and positive energy, and were only healed by Clerics or those with effects linking them to the artifical.

I also literally copy pasted Favored class bonuses from the core races, thinking that that would be a smart idea, but yeah, you are right, I will need to change some of those. Namely any thing to do with extra spells or doesn't help with the theme of being a survivalist.

I'll take you up on your offer, Gr8, provided I have the time for it. It's likely I would, but it's also likely in any collab we do, I'll likely end up thinking up crazy lore justifications.

[gr8artist]

In the "Creating New Races" section of the pfsrd you can find this nugget under the "Construct" type traits.

Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a construct can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required to survive or stay in good health.
Your exclusion of this clarification is what prompted me to ask. I think your decision to have negative energy affect them is appropriate, as they are living, but curious since they detect as undead. Necromancers will be SO confused.
...
I want to roll a Risen Necromancer now. He'll be mentally unstable, and constantly making 4th wall references, like the cast of OotS.

It's true that PF removed the constructs' immunity to SA and crits, but I seem to remember that a large portion of constructs were given that immunity when appropriate for their design. A robot with mechanical parts, for example, could be disrupted with a giant monkey wrench, while an animated chair just... won't. So it's no longer an immunity trait of the creature type, but rather of the specific creature's build. Given that you're little more than hollow armor, I think that SA immunity (or at least resistance) makes sense. If you don't want to include the immunity, for obvious balance reasons, I'd recommend a short description of what parts of the body might make suitable targets to sneak attack. For example, a line like "The risen's interior is filled with pulleys, levers, and pistons that cause serious mechanical harm when damaged."
My fiance' asked, what happens when you're the target of an object-targeting spell that affects the objects wearer, like heat metal or burning disarm?

And, to be clear, I think we are planning to roll randomly to determine teams. Although I certainly wouldn't mind being on a team with you, I didn't mean to imply that I was asking you to be on a team with me. I'm not sure that you're misunderstanding me, as I have a hard time translating inflection in text.

"rtp;tlc" ... what?

Mandjet, Candy Witch, Clockwork Guardian, Anbroid, and Crucible reviews coming soon. I swear I though I already did half of those.

[dragonjek]

I'll take you up on your offer, Gr8, provided I have the time for it. It's likely I would, but it's also likely in any collab we do, I'll likely end up thinking up crazy lore justifications.

Judging from what's been said so far, I think we're going to be rolling to decide partners on the collaboration contest.

[Almarck]

Yeah, just realized it. Oh well, how are we going to select in what order people roll in? Alphabet?
Everyone rolls a number and those that are nearest go together?

"rtp;tlc" by the way is a joke on the "tl;dr" accroynm. Basically it means "Read The Post, but it was Too Long to Copy"

Anyways. I've added 5 new feats that are possibly major game changers for how the race plays. (for some reason I wrote class earlier weird.)

Also, did some clarification on how SA works by attaching that to the physical description. It'll remind you a little of how Al was bound to his armor I think.
I also added a note detailing how... being made of odd substances can be.

[dragonjek]

Perhaps we could roll %, and group people together in descending order? That way there's no need for any specific roll order.

[gr8artist]

Best method to me seems like putting us in order based on how many rounds we've been in, with the most at the top and fewest on the bottom. Then we start at the bottom and roll to pick a teammate. So if the list looks like this...


adam
barry
clyde
danny
eric
francis
greg
henry
then henry starts by rolling a d7. Let's say he gets a three. Greg rolls a d5 to pick from the remaining players, who would be

adam
barry
danny
eric
francis
greg
. Let's say he gets a 5. Since he and Francis become the second team, we move on to Eric rolling a d3. Etc...

The option for everybody to roll a d100, and put the highest pair together, then the next highest pair, over and over, would also work. My caveat would be that in the unlikely chance that two people somehow got the same result, they'd be on a team together, rather than rerolling to see who gets placed with the next lowest or highest roller.

[Almarck]

I find the d100 plan most fair, provided there's someone who's administrating the roll off and keeping things secret.

Also, I suggest if we do any roll offs of any sort, we begin recruiting contestants and rolling during the voting peroid for the current contest, to save time. Announce the results on the day the contest starts and anyone who hasn't signed up prior gets to pick their partners since obviously they can't really roll.

[Milo v3]

I find the d100 plan most fair, provided there's someone who's administrating the roll off and keeping things secret.
Why have it secret, just use the forum dieroller.

[Almarck]

There's a forum diceroller? Well, I'm new and didn't know that.

Is it off topic to ask about that here? Since it's relevant and all to people participating in the contest?

[gr8artist]

No problem at all. The command will be 1d100 or 1dX (if we opt for the rolling a number equal to the number of remaining players). The result will come out something like this: (1d100)[63]
We'll actually have to do the dice-rolls elsewhere, as they don't (apparently) work in the homebrew subforum.

I'm thinking there's no real reason to wait until we're voting on this month's winners to start recruiting for the next round. People will likely have questions and whatnot. As soon as we know what we want to do, like how to pick team-mates or what the theme (if anything other than just doubling up) will be, then I can make a new thread to catch attention and try to attract more contestants.

Roster
gr8artist
malonkey1
dragonjek
Milo V3
caledscratcher
Almarck

[dragonjek]

Before I try to suggest a theme, I have to ask--are we working together to each create something related to the other, or are we working together to create a single homebrew?

I seem to remember this being discussed, but if it was resolved I can't find it.



As for themes (should we decide to do themes)--if we're working together on a single creation, then I suggest something along the lines of--
Lego: Now With 90% Less Caltrop!: A homebrew based around being made of many things or of many things coming/working together (a swarm monster or a race that in order to reproduce goes on a sort of treasure hunt until they find enough random crap to make a new one).
or, if we are each homebrewing our own creation--
Opposites Attract: Homebrews based upon opposing one another in some fashion (like a pair of artifacts with power over acids and bases or a magic-hunting class and a magical race).


And since we can't roll dice here, it seems that the Playground has an entire forum devoted to rolling dice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?43-Dice-Rolls)

[Milo v3]

Huh, I thought you could roll here, wonder why they removed it from only some parts of the site....

[gr8artist]

It will be two related homebrew. Each contestant makes one, with input and advice from his partner, so that the two are obviously related in some way.
Race + Archetype, Class + PRC, Creature + Template, etc.
Several people earlier expressed that they think there shouldn't be a theme, that doubling up would be interesting enough as it is. If we do decide to go for a theme, anything that works for two entries would work well, like Opposites Attract or Symbiosis.
Personally I think not having a theme this time will be fine, and the entries will instead be judged on relatability to one another.

[Almarck]

Something tells me that the 2 don't need to be mutually exclusive...

Regardless, does the tagline "Do it Together?" sound appropriate enough to be useable?

[ShiningStarling]

It seems my college life did not allow for my participating in the contest this time around. :(

I liked the concept enough that I'll probably still do it, just, y'know, later.

I think I'm gonna be out of the running for a while, but I'll keep checking in.

Thanks for having me! :)

[gr8artist]

Sorry to hear that, OM.

Yeah, I think the unrestricted theme is best.

Some reviews, for those of you who feel like workin' over the weekend.
What is "akasha"?
You have a class that re-defines biology. There needs to be some explanation for how the average Joe wanderer decides to become a mandjet.
You need to define abilities and phrases before referencing them. You have a lot of similar-seeming, vaguely defined, nebulous abilities and qualities mentioned throughout, and it makes the whole thing really confusing. Veils, Essence, Chakra Binds, Object Abilities, Invested, Repressed, Mechanization, Veilshapers (links? homebrew?), etc...
Your second and third abilities don't seem like they really do anything stand-alone, and could probably be combined or blended into other abilities.
Veils obviously need work, and I'm not sure what makes them not spells or spell-like abilities.
What do Chakra Binds DO?
Shapeshifting into a construct as a quality of a class (not a race) at second level is really weird. Like, really, really weird.
Miniaturization is the only ability I can recall ever seeing that explicitly penalizes you for picking a compatible build.
Restructuring doesn't seem to be compatible with miniaturization. Give them a choice and both at the same level, with increasing benefits later.

There's some grammar issues that can be adressed later, should you repost the archetype for further evaluation.
If I were you, I'd make the gingerbread servant HD scale a little better by changing the HD of the large GS to 5 instead of 4. It's more logical to have a pair of +2 increases between the +1 increases at small sizes and the +3 increases at large sizes.
Poisoned Caramel might need to have a DC listed.
Alluring Candy should be Su and doesn't need to specify "giant". Giants are a subtype of humanoid, like elves. Spell out the DC, too ("10 + 1/2 level + Int" is the norm)
Alluring Candy also needs a duration. I'd suggest 10 minutes, or 1 minute per level. This is a duration of the effect on a failed save, not the duration of the candy or how long it lasts on a gingerbread person.
Fattening Syrup cracks me up. I'd make it an onset penalty, rather than instantly inflating like a balloon. Perhaps their weight increases by 20% per minute, and this weight is added to their load to determine encumbrance? Fatigued after 1 minute, and staggered after 5? You could also write up the effects of Fattening Syrup as a poison, which would negate you needing to specify the save penalties and whatnot.
I've told you I love this entry, right? The house running on candy-cane stilts is something I don't plan to forget any time soon.
I would give your animated cauldron a "splash" attack. 10 or 15 foot range, ranged touch or cone, affects creatures with whatever concoction is in the cauldron but empties the cauldron after use. Boiling water would deal about 1d4 fire damage.
The "As long as skill ranks = HD" clause in your Haute Patisserie feat is weird, and the benefit is pretty good. Consider using this instead: "Your gingerbread servants gain additional construction points equal to 1/3 your ranks in Craft (bakery), to a maximum number of additional points equal to your Charisma modifier."
I would remove the clause about the 100% accuracy of the message in Fortune Cookie. Just make it an ominous message, not one that's more accurate than the average divination spell. I would have it give them the shaken condition for 1 round if they succeed their save, and probably stagger and shaken 1 round on a failed save, rather than stun.
Can other people snuff out the Birthday Candle? Because if they can't, it's too good for a feat as its currently written. Consider changing it to 1d6 + 1/2 levels and lowering the frequency to 1d4+1 rounds, or 1/minute.
Great job overall.

There's not a lot to say about this entry. It's good, well thought out, simple and usable. My only concern is that it seems a little droll or bland; the arc cannon was a nice touch, however. If I were you, I'd expand the list of secondary weapons to include a net launcher, grabbing appendage/mancatcher, and repeating crossbow, rather than just the musket and the arc cannon.
A wee bit more customization could really elevate this thing in my book.
All in all, however, it's a technically perfect entry, if perhaps a little weak in the creativity department.
Welcome to the contest!

So you're pushing for humor, but the joke you're making doesn't seem particularly humorous to me. But I was homeschooled in a weird neck of the woods, and my sense of humor isn't the best, so don't take that too harshly.
Relevant (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGa_Vr6YtUA)?
You didn't describe the subtypes particularly well, if at all.
Interesting, though unfortunately it doesn't feel fleshed out or finished. I'd move the slang descriptions and humor to a standalone paragraph, where it might be better appreciated, and actually give us something we can understand for the actual template.

You say slowly, but running a 100 foot wire in a day is pretty fast rate of expansion for something like this.
What happens while it's dormant. Can the changes its made be undone at that time?
I like this, and it makes me want to see a biological equivalent, something that spreads with taproots and sprouts plant creatures within its area.
Great work, and welcome to the contest.

I'd covered you already, and the new feats look fine. I'd advise splitting the size increase and the body modification feats apart. Some people might like to be small and mithral, you know?
One feat would make them medium and give them 10 more HP.
Another feat would give them a +2 armor bonus or something.

[Milo v3]

What is "akasha"?
Incarnum. Dreamscarred press made/is making it as a series called Akashic Mysteries.


You have a class that re-defines biology. There needs to be some explanation for how the average Joe wanderer decides to become a mandjet.
Average joe =/ Adventurer. But anyway, no idea how someone becomes one. How does someone decide to become an incarnum/akasha user.


You need to define abilities and phrases before referencing them. You have a lot of similar-seeming, vaguely defined, nebulous abilities and qualities mentioned throughout, and it makes the whole thing really confusing. Veils, Essence, Chakra Binds, Object Abilities, Invested, Repressed, Mechanization, Veilshapers (links? homebrew?), etc...

Most of those are from Akashic Mysteries.
Object abilities should have been construction points.
Repressed and Mechanization are extra things that work with akashic rules.
Links:
Actual Product (http://paizo.com/products/btpy99ri/discuss?Akashic-Mysteries-WorkinProgress)
Playtest content that has stuff that hasn't been released yet.
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349964-Dreamscarred-Press-Introduces-Akashic-Mysteries/page1)


Shapeshifting into a construct as a quality of a class (not a race) at second level is really weird. Like, really, really weird.
I'm not sure I understand. Should shapeshifting be restricted to races for some reason?


Miniaturization is the only ability I can recall ever seeing that explicitly penalizes you for picking a compatible build.
If your a character who wants to be smaller, it lets you be smaller, if you don't then you can be bigger. If your already bigger than it "can" make you bigger again. It doesn't penalize you. Still, I dislike how I did the ability, probably should go back and change it but I'm never good with abilities that change size.


Restructuring doesn't seem to be compatible with miniaturization. Give them a choice and both at the same level, with increasing benefits later.
It is compatible, I mean, you can have powerful build and slight build. Though, probably should just make it pick once.

[gr8artist]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's just not something they're designed for. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

[Milo v3]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's just not something they're designed for. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

It's magic.

[Almarck]

I'd covered you already, and the new feats look fine. I'd advise splitting the size increase and the body modification feats apart. Some people might like to be small and mithral, you know?
One feat would make them medium and give them 10 more HP.
Another feat would give them a +2 armor bonus or something.

I've added about 2 other feats aside from the body and size mods.

Basically, 1 is a feat that giv you bonus natural armor dependant, 1/2 for ever Risen feat you own, but only when you're half health or below. Meaning, a Risen fighter dumping bonus feats into the various racial combat feats is going to be tough to kill.

Another feat basically inverts the Positive and Negative energy balance and if combined with Living Essence let's you heal negative for half.

I did make an option to go large, adding 10 more HP.


Edit: seperated size upgrades from Body reconstition. the 10k gold cost is enough of a drawback to prohibit people from taking it early. It's not up yet, but it'll be before the contest is over.

[dragonjek]

See, I think of the body and biology as being more related to race than to class. A class should teach you how to do things, or allow you to discover new options. A class feature that modifies your biological nature seems like it should be magical in some way, or rather a quality of your race.
The transformers can transform because they're transformers. Humans cannot learn to transform like the Autobots do. It's possible that the shapeshifting ability of your class is more magical than I realize, but I wasn't sure if the stuff you were talking about was more like grit or ki or more like an arcane pool or spellcasting.

Actually, one of the powers mastering ki can give in eastern folklore and mythology is the ability to change your shape.

There's also a mythological basis for non-magical shapeshifting (although biology in mythology is... weird). You see, it is a common misunderstanding that a "kitsune" is a Japanese fox spirit. No, "kitsune" is the word for all foxes--the normal ones we see are just in their first hundred years of life. Beyond this is when they begin to grow additional tails, can take on other forms, etc. There are a huge amount of other, seemingly normal things that can learn to shapeshift (or just take on a more human shape), from most animals to inanimate objects to ideas.

Leaving aside Japanese mythology specifically, there are a numbers of stories in mythology about people who have learned to change shape by trying to imitate animals or by just trying really, really hard.

[Tanuki Tales]

So...College has been eating me more and more it seems, along with other IRL commitments. :smallfrown:

I hate to ask this, but would someone mind taking the reigns till about the middle of December?

[gr8artist]

I got yer back, bro.
I do reserve the right to vote as though I were not officiating, though I will not nominate a Judges Choice recipient.

Milo, don't take this the wrong way but I feel there's a recurring theme in your entries that I find myself asking what something is or how it works, and I tend to get curt responses that aren't clarified in the entries themselves. When I ask what Akasha is, I'm also asking you to add that information to your entry. The best entries do not require knowledge of 3rd party sources or obscure reference materials.

Shape shifting is one thing, but shape shifting into a car is another. A class is something anyone can learn to do, and a class that replaces WHAT YOU ARE needs plenty of fluff to explain how and why such a thing happens. I can't just learn to be a machine, that conversion is something magical or supernatural and needs to be spelled out as such.

Almarck, I'll try to take a look soon.

Tanta, if you do want me to take over the contest, the first thing I'm doing is updating and linking your entry templates so you don't need the first 8 posts of the contest for formatting templates and whatnot.

[Milo v3]

Milo, don't take this the wrong way but I feel there's a recurring theme in your entries that I find myself asking what something is or how it works, and I tend to get curt responses that aren't clarified in the entries themselves. When I ask what Akasha is, I'm also asking you to add that information to your entry.
I apologize if my responses were curt, I try to be concise in responses, I'll take better care in future. I didn't place any links or anything because people have previously used dreamscarred press content in this competition without issue.


Shape shifting is one thing, but shape shifting into a car is another. A class is something anyone can learn to do, and a class that replaces WHAT YOU ARE needs plenty of fluff to explain how and why such a thing happens. I can't just learn to be a machine, that conversion is something magical or supernatural and needs to be spelled out as such.
I disagree. You don't learn how to be a sorcerer, it just happens. You don't learn how to be an oracle, you are chosen. Either way, why can't you learn how to shapeshift into a vehicle? How is it somehow harder to shapeshift into a something simpler than an animal, when you can learn how to cast spells. Either way, it does say it's supernatural....

[gr8artist]

It may (and apparently seems to be) boil down to a difference of opinion. From the earliest levels, your class has been changing the definition of the character's biology, which seems to not be well enough described for my taste. Perhaps a paragraph explaining how a character sets upon this path might help.
It's true, you do not "learn" to be sorcerers or oracles, you are born into those classes. But I dont' understand how a character could be born into a half machine.

[dragonjek]

It may (and apparently seems to be) boil down to a difference of opinion. From the earliest levels, your class has been changing the definition of the character's biology, which seems to not be well enough described for my taste. Perhaps a paragraph explaining how a character sets upon this path might help.
It's true, you do not "learn" to be sorcerers or oracles, you are born into those classes. But I dont' understand how a character could be born into a half machine.

Possess the ability to restructure yourself on a sub-atomic level, possibly drawing in and dismantling surrounding matter to incorporate into your reformed body?

Apart from that, you could have something along the lines of the X-Men's Colossus to turn into metal, which combined with other shapeshifting methods could possibly allow you to make yourself into a form of machine.

There's also things along the lines of the Generator Rex cartoon (which I've admittedly seen only two episodes of, and so can't say much about it), or an infestation by a bio-mechanical symbiote. If the campaign setting has some sort of biological machine monsters or if constructs given genuine life can breed (which would mean that humans, at least, could have some of the class... humans might as well have the racial ability "spawn half-anything", usable once per 9 months), that could also result in a character having machine transformation abilities, or something like it

The machine-shapeshifter could also be a specific kind of living violation of the laws of physics and magic. Or the class could somehow be based on having a bloodline traced back to the Far Realm.

[Almarck]

So, I take it the contest ends today? Or maybe sometime tonight?

I'm actually shaking with anxiety right now as I have finalized my entry a day or two ago and am hoping for the best.

Also, quick question, when is an acceptable date or time I can post the contest entry onto the homebrew forums to continue development if I so desired?

[MrNobody]

Thanks gr8artist for the review and for all the compliments! I'm glad you like my Witch that much!

These days work is taking away almost every free second, but i found the way to make a couple of adjustments as you suggested!:smallwink:

[gr8artist]

Just in time, too. I finally got around to closing that round and opening the voting thread.
Everybody go vote.

I'll also be making an attention-catching thread for the next round and moving our team-up roster there.

[gr8artist]

Voting will be over soon; get in there while you still can.

And we're currently up to 11 total participants for the team-up round. Anybody else wanna' join? Swing by the sign-up thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?378820-Looking-for-Team-mates!&p=18337236) to let us know!

[MrNobody]

Wow guys... silver medal, MUE and MLTSP!!! I expected some kind of good placement but i'd never thought about this! Thanks for all your votes and support!

I also want to compliment Milo V3 and Grimgrin for their 3rd and 1st place, and also all the others competitors! We all did an excellent job!

[Almarck]

I'll admit I am kinda disappointed I didn't place at all, but I can't really say I did follow the theme too well.

On thinking back, I might have put more influence on revenants than machines, but oh well and there were loads of other things I could have done. I can at least say that I am probably the who reminded people about the contest with my vote. Strange how there was a whole week only one person voted and then I decided to go vote and suddenly people started joining in.

Congradulations on your victory, Mr.

[gr8artist]

Hey e'rybody, new contest is up. Check it out.

Also, grimgrin, how would you like your custom artwork for the Crucible?

[Milo v3]

*Immediately starts looking up Reality Glitch's work.*

[caledscratcher]

Hey, um, I don't remember if I've already asked this (I vaguely remember inconclusiveness to a prior asking of tis), but would it be plausible to submit a Mythic Path for a PGBC round? Not necessarily this one (although if Hollowpoint and I agree, it might be plausible), but just in general?

[gr8artist]

Ooh, I think that's a wonderful idea. Please, Tanta?

[gr8artist]

I hope everyone's in contact with their team-mate and making some progress; I know I am.

Also, on a side note, I'd love some feedback on the Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382012-Force-Golem&p=18365337) I almost wrote up for the last round.

[caledscratcher]

I really hope a mythic path entry will be allowed for this round, because I'm almost done with one.
...
Woops.

[gr8artist]

Tanta gave us the greenlight. I'll try and update the contest with a copy of the template later, but have fun exploring new territory!

[Reality Glitch]

Oh, hey. I just found this thread and....
Incarnum. Dreamscarred press made/is making it as a series called Akashic Mysteries.


Actual Product (http://paizo.com/products/btpy99ri/discuss?Akashic-Mysteries-WorkinProgress)
Playtest content that has stuff that hasn't been released yet. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349964-Dreamscarred-Press-Introduces-Akashic-Mysteries/page1)PATHFINDER INCARNUM AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggri n::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::small biggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


Also, Milo v3, You still need to add Exctracts and hypotheses as well as takwin options upon which to spend evoultion points.

[Warpwolf16]

Oh, hey. I just found this thread and....PATHFINDER INCARNUM AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggri n::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::small biggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


*whistles and walks away leaving link*
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/akashic-magic
Its up on the pfsrd Glitch :3 I was tempted to try and brew a akashic thing but decided against it since I've been knocking around space things.

[Jormengand]

Could we have a bit longer? Making all these new domains is actually a ton of work, and some people haven't even started their entries yet.

[Almarck]

In the case of Gr8t and I, well, we've both sanctimoniously had tremendous computer failures in the past month.

We're both mostly done, but need to apply finishing touches, so we're not in dire need of extra time as you'd think. Though admittedly, it'd be appreciated.

[Prehysterical]

Could we have a bit longer? Making all these new domains is actually a ton of work, and some people haven't even started their entries yet.

Yeah, I've been trying to coordinate with Diachronos on our entry, but this month has been crazy between the holidays and finishing up grad school applications.

Thirded.

[gr8artist]

Extensions will be up to Tanta, FYI. Since I'm a contestant, I can't make any judgements or rulings on anything like that. However, I don't recall him ever giving us a specific end date to begin with. When I started the round, I was assuming that it'd be about a 2-month contest, but I dont' recall an end date being specified at any time.

[Almarck]

For the record, I don't mind ending it on the scheduled date. 2 months should have been plenty of time to build something, even after factoring the holidays.

It's just that for some of us, we ended up with crazy computer failure....

[gr8artist]

Tanta messaged me on Skype and indicated that an extension on the deadline was fine, though he offered "the end of January" as the new due-date, and I feel like that's a bit longer than anyone should need. I told him to mention it here, but... he hasn't.
So, the contest is still open and ongoing, until either everyone's finished, or january ends, or Tanta says otherwise.

[Almarck]

So, is the contest done?

We've extended the date already by a month.

[Prehysterical]

gr8artist hasn't been on in a couple of days, but I don't have a finished concept anyway. Looks like it's going to be a limited pool of contestants this time...

[gr8artist]

Honestly, I'd completely forgotten all about it. I'll try to take care of it in the next day or two, certainly by the weekend.
We finished ours early in January, yeah? So I completely forgot about the contest since then. My bad. Been playing in PBP, and real life, and doing other stuff.
I wonder where Tanta is, though. Anybody seen him around in a while?

[dragonjek]

Does this still exist, or has the hiatus actually been the death of the contest?

[Tanuki Tales]

Geez, I didn't think I was the glue holding this together. o.o

I got a full time job back in March with a ~45-60 minute commute each way...so...my free time has evaporated like dew drops in a harsh summer sun (barely have time for even World of Warcraft anymore). And to be honest, I don't even know how well my system mastery is anymore, since I haven't had a thing to do with any tabletop gaming since after last Christmas (definitely rusty).

I could probably serve in some administrative role, but I definitely can't take back the reigns of running this behemoth.