Bypass a wish with a wish

[kabreras]

Hello fellows,

Here i my litle question :

If i wish that noone but me can enter a place by any means, beeing magicals or psysicals.

Can someone else bypass my wish by wishing to get to the place ?

(and if yes can i have a wish trap that wish them to get the hell out?)

[ahenobarbi]

Wish to make it impossible to enter an area is out of "safe wish list" so it'sup to DM to decide how it'll work.

At very least dieties and epic magic should be able to bypass it IMHO.

EDIT: You can Wish to transport someone out of your place (it's in description). And it should be possible to Wish to undo your wish.

[Spuddles]

Wish to make it impossible to enter an area is out of "safe wish list" so it'sup to DM to decide how it'll work.

Not exactly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forbiddance.htm)

[lycantrope]

While i dont have any rulings in mind that back it up, i am certain that wishes can be used to counteract other wishes.

[Krobar]

I allow Wishes to override other Wishes, with one caveat: I make it a caster level check vs. a caster level check.

I see no problem with your Wish and would allow it to work without jacking you up.

[Psyren]

Not exactly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forbiddance.htm)

That is how I'd expect such a wish to resolve.

The problem is that Forbiddance is a "local condition"; furthermore, Wish is not a teleportation effect, even when used to transport travelers. Thus, a second Wish would defeat the first one that established a Forbiddance.

[ahenobarbi]

Not exactly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forbiddance.htm)


That is how I'd expect such a wish to resolve.

The problem is that Forbiddance is a "local condition"; furthermore, Wish is not a teleportation effect, even when used to transport travelers. Thus, a second Wish would defeat the first one that established a Forbiddance.


And it doesn't prohibit non-magical entering, which OP wants to include in the wish .

[Hopeless]

You would be better off linking a condition to your wish so that you could render a permanent teleport portal to your secret base but unless they know the secret word/ possess the specific item or whatever is needed that allows them to use the portal to reach your secret basse it either won't work or sends them somewhere else.

For example your character makes a point of openly carrying their wizard/clerical symbol but uses a hidden one which they touch before stepping on the portal before saying what sounds like a spell or password but you decide whats actually needed to send you to your base rather than down a nearby chasm...

Could they use a wish to bypass this to reach your lair?

Oh yes but then you can have a second teleport portal set up specifically so if anyone who doesn't use the right portal is immediately teleported outside about a 1000' above the ground or out over a volcano's lava filled mouth...

A wish can only do so much I'd be more worried if they can scry your location or have already found another way in thats perfectly legitimate...

[kabreras]

So a better wish is that i dont forbid the entrance to the place (even if i hide it)
but i wish that if someone that is not me enter the lair he would be ported out somewhere else unwelcome.

Add it a forbidance to stop basic teleportations and the wish i do pass out others peoples wish to come in as they work but mine take effect after to send them away ?

[Stux]

wish that if someone that is not me enter the lair he would be ported out somewhere else unwelcome.

That would certainly make it less likely for someone to be able to enter. However a carefully worded wish could still get around it I would think, though of course they would have to know about your 'trap' to word their wish in that way.

Of course both your wish, and the wish that circumvents it, are not standard wishes and thus entirely up to the DMs discretion as to what would actually happen.

[Skysaber]

So, a wish to modify another wish?

Say, "I wish that any creature transported to X location via Wish will arrive without magic or gear."

Perhaps a second Wish to cause that removed gear to appear somewhere convenient to you.

Could be even deadlier of you used a third Wish to make them forget everything concerning where they are and why they are there upon arrival.

[kabreras]

So if i want a wish that dont interfere with the other wish i have to make it trigger after the effect is resolved...

"Any creature that is not me that is in the lair be transported to xxxxx"


The transport wish resolved fully to get it and work, then my own wish take place to do an other transport.

[kabreras]

So, a wish to modify another wish?

Say, "I wish that any creature transported to X location via Wish will arrive without magic or gear."

Perhaps a second Wish to cause that removed gear to appear somewhere convenient to you.

Could be even deadlier of you used a third Wish to make them forget everything concerning where they are and why they are there upon arrival.

I try to get as close as possible to the safe wish side and yours is far from safe

[TuggyNE]

So if i want a wish that dont interfere with the other wish i have to make it trigger after the effect is resolved...

"Any creature that is not me that is in the lair be transported to xxxxx"


The transport wish resolved fully to get it and work, then my own wish take place to do an other transport.

I'm not sure a wish is the best mechanism to do this, really; what you should consider instead is how to achieve this normally, and then optionally use a wish to speed up the process of setting that up.

For example, a trap set to teleport enemies to a given kill zone, or simply out of the area. (If you want to get fancy, put an energy transformation field there too to make sure they can't celerity a dimensional anchor on; possibly key it to targeted greater dispel magic to strip buffs.

[Darth Stabber]

A wish to ensure that any who shift to your plane land in a permanent AMF, and have some automated defenses just outside it. Another wish to strip gear would be helpful. Throwing in some anticipate teleport would probably help.

[TuggyNE]

A wish to ensure that any who shift to your plane land in a permanent AMF, and have some automated defenses just outside it. Another wish to strip gear would be helpful. Throwing in some anticipate teleport would probably help.

Yes, that would be the kill zone I suggested; if possible, phrase the wish in such a way that it's straightforward and obviously on the safe list to grant using existing spells/items.

[Stux]

The transport wish resolved fully to get it and work, then my own wish take place to do an other transport.

Thing is wishes outside the 'safe' list (and even within the safe list depending on DM) aren't a simple and defined input-output type of thing.

Your enemy could word a wish "I wish to enter this place and not be removed from there by any means" and the DM could still rule that this overrides your wish. They may not, but there is certainly no guarantee.

There is simply no definitive defence against a wish unless you know exactly how your DM will handle it.

[Psyren]

Say, "I wish that any creature transported to X location via Wish will arrive without magic or gear."

Partial fulfillment: "I wish that any creature transported to X location via Wish will arrive without magic or gear."

[Segev]

How thorough, and how much resources, do you want to be/commit to this defense? There are a number of spells to layer into the protection of a place to make a simple Wish very hard to word such that it would bypass them all. A single Wish protecting against it is generally insufficient against determined (especially DMly) opposition.

[The Glyphstone]

Divert Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/divertTeleport.htm) is always a nice trick, though it can't stop non-magical intruders.

[Psyren]

Divert Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/divertTeleport.htm) is always a nice trick, though it can't stop non-magical intruders.

The thing is though, it's debatable if it can stop Wish too:

1) DT, like any other anti-teleporter defense, is a "local condition."
2) The "transport travelers" function of Wish isn't actually a teleportation effect.

My advice to the OP instead is to focus on making life miserable for any interlopers after they arrive, rather than attmepting to keep them out entirely.

[Segev]

I am personally a huge fan of that spell that creates a field wherein spells and SLAs and charged item uses are sucked up to power a second spell tied to it. When enough spell levels are absorbed, it casts the second spell.

The second spell you should use is Suggestion. Specifically, it should suggest that there is something of a trap here that they NEED to keep testing with spells and powers of every sort, because if they don't figure it out, they'll be utterly at its mercy in this highly dangerous place.


Net effect: they keep casting magic into it, and the Suggestion keeps going off that they should stay there and cast more magic into it, until they're totally out of magic to cast into it. By that point, they should be down to permanent magic items and the fighters' combat capabilities. Still possibly dangerous, but something you should be able to handle. Not to mention that they've been stuck there for hours and hours, if not days, so you've had plenty of time to prepare something to handle them.

[TuggyNE]

I am personally a huge fan of that spell that creates a field wherein spells and SLAs and charged item uses are sucked up to power a second spell tied to it. When enough spell levels are absorbed, it casts the second spell.

The second spell you should use is Suggestion. Specifically, it should suggest that there is something of a trap here that they NEED to keep testing with spells and powers of every sort, because if they don't figure it out, they'll be utterly at its mercy in this highly dangerous place.


Net effect: they keep casting magic into it, and the Suggestion keeps going off that they should stay there and cast more magic into it, until they're totally out of magic to cast into it. By that point, they should be down to permanent magic items and the fighters' combat capabilities. Still possibly dangerous, but something you should be able to handle. Not to mention that they've been stuck there for hours and hours, if not days, so you've had plenty of time to prepare something to handle them.

Yep, energy transformation field is a great spell. Basically AMF on steroids.

[NichG]

Cheap anti-teleportation/instantaneous transportation defense: hang strings from the ceiling every few inches surface such that there isn't space for a person to fully materialize without shunting. Make it so where they shunt is very unpleasant. When you need to arrive, send a message ahead via any number of means to an animated servitor to go and clear the beads away from a landing spot for you.

Even if Wish isn't a teleportation effect, its unclear to me whether the 'transport travellers' part of it would be immune to shunting or teleporting into an area that you cannot fit in.

Depending on the interaction between incorporeality/shunting/teleporting in your campaign, you may need ghost touch beads or strings dipped in gorgon's blood or something like that to prevent any survivors' second try from working though.