[3.5e] Cards of Fate (Wondrous Item)

[STRANGE]

Introduction

Imagine carrying potent magic in the palm of your hand, having many spells to draw on with the flick of a wrist, pronouncing doom with a single piece of paper. Such is the might of the Cards of Fate. These 22 cards were created by ancient Sorcerers to store enormous amounts of power inside something trivial nobody would think valuble.

Each card can be used by throwing it to the ground and invoking its power with the name of the card. The card combusts after the spell inside is cast.

Cards

The Fool: Deal 10 points of permanent Intelligence and Wisdom damage to a target of your choosing.

The Magician: All casters in the party regain the use of all of their spells.

The High Priestess: Everyone in the party regains full hitpoints.

The Empress: Gain a +4 bonus to all rolls until the end of the encounter.

The Emperor: Summon 6 creatures from Summon Monster VII to fight for you. They disappear at the end of the encounter.

The Hierophant: As Miracle, but for no XP cost.

The Lovers: As Charm Person, but with no chance of failiure and you can use it on up to four people.

The Chariot: Summons riding horses for every character in your party.

Strength: Gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls, as well as to your strength until the end of the encounter.

The Hermit: Gain a +1 bonus to all stats until the end of the encounter.

Wheel of Fortune: Turn one object of medium size or smaller into gold.

Justice: Deals 50 points of damage to an evil or chaotic creature.

The Hanged Man: Cause up to 50 points of asphyxiation damage on one target. They can be one at a time or all at once.

Death: Kills five creatures of your choosing. (they must be living, natural, etc.)

Temperance: Resurrects five dead creatures of your choosing.

The Devil: Summons a Barbed Devil to fight for you who disappears at the end of the encounter.

The Tower: Gives a +4 AC bonus until the end of the encounter.

The Star: Shows the PCs which way to go to reach their objective.

The Moon: As Disguise Self but the illusion is impenetrable. Only a wizard could tell it was an illusion with a check.

The Sun: As Daylight, but permanent, and creatures who are not affected by Daylight as opposed to actual light are affected.

Judgement: Banishes one creature who is opposite in alignment to you to the Dungeons of the Marut.

The World: Teleport without error to anywhere.


P.S. If these cards don't fit into your DM style or campaign, don't call them worthless or OP. If I can fit all of them into 1 campaign without Overpowering the PCs you definitely can.

[AuraTwilight]

Holy crap, this is an artifact, not a Wondrous Item. This is the "I Win" Deck of Cards.

[STRANGE]

In my campaign they usually come as 1 card or 2 cards. Not all of them. Any comments that have to do with something other than OMG DIS IS SO OP ASDFFGHJK?

[Vadskye]

These cards vary in power level to a ludicrous degree. Hierophant and Death are campaign-ending effects with power that surpasses that of a 9th level spell, while The Chariot is at best a couple of 1st level spells. The effects have tenuous or nonexistent connections to the thematic significance of Tarot cards. You're strongly stepping on the toes of the Deck of Many Things, which does more or less the exact same thing.

[STRANGE]

So give the chariot to a fist level party and death to a higher level party. Simple.

[Realms of Chaos]

As stated, this REALLY seems a lot more like an artifact than a wondrous item. The problem isn't that you get a whole bunch of different effects but that several effects are incredibly supercharged, often doing more than any individual spell can do. Furthermore, these have no cost and no instructions for creating, both of which are necessary if this was to be a wondrous item instead of an artifact (and I personally believe that at least some of these effects can't be fairly priced).

I'll go through the problems with these cards (at least as wondrous items) one at a time but it largely amounts to, as state above, each card acting as an "I win" button.


The Fool: Deal 10 points of permanent Intelligence and Wisdom damage to a target of your choosing.

Deals a large chunk of non-variable stat damage with no means to defend against it. Lots of enemies instantly die the moment you use this and all but highly optimized (or spontaneous) casters are pretty much shut down the moment this is used.


The Magician: All casters in the party regain the use of all of their spells.

There is literally no spell, ability, or item I am aware of that was intended to suddenly give even one person all of their spells without waiting. This card would be insanely cheap even at 10,000,000 gp. It is seriously that good and I don't think it belongs as anything other than an artifact.


The High Priestess: Everyone in the party regains full hitpoints.

This is one of the less powerful abilities as a wish or miracle might be able to imitate the effects.



The Empress: Gain a +4 bonus to all rolls until the end of the encounter.

Not that powerful compared to some other stuff.


The Emperor: Summon 6 creatures from Summon Monster VII to fight for you. They disappear at the end of the encounter.

Again, pretty tame. Very powerful (probably costs upwards towards 10k gp for a 1-use item) but not overwhelmingly so



The Hierophant: As Miracle, but for no XP cost.

I've always been more worried about granting free miracles than free wishes as there are very few boundaries other than DM fiat when it comes down to "powerful requests", especially if this miracle isn't coming from any specific god with a reason to refuse you.



The Lovers: As Charm Person, but with no chance of failiure and you can use it on up to four people.

It's not permanent but the ability to take over someone's mind while ignoring immunities, saving throws, spell resistance, and every single other defense definitely seems more like an artifact ability than a magic item. Otherwise, I'm just going to buy or craft them (which I can do as it's just a wondrous item) and start using them whenever we face a humanoid enemy to always win with no chance of failing ever.



The Chariot: Summons riding horses for every character in your party.

Probably one of the weakest ones. Also, I'm just noticing that you rely on the vague term "party", even though, in D&D, that term doesn't actually mean anything. I could declare that the entire army behind me is party of my party and get bonuses for everyone. Most effects aiming for this type of goal either set a limit for the number of beneficiaries (say, 5) or sets a limitation on space (such as summoning a riding horse for every ally within 30 feet).



Strength: Gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls, as well as to your strength until the end of the encounter.

Just kind of weird. Odd bonuses to ability scores are kind of weird in general (explaining why they are almost never used). Not too powerful. Also, I can see why you use until end of the encounter but using that term probably makes pricing these things difficult as one card may either last a small fraction of the time of the spell used to craft this in a short skirmish or last ten times as long in a massive battle.


The Hermit: Gain a +1 bonus to all stats until the end of the encounter.

This is the other really weak card. +1 to stats is only a small help to most characters most of the time and if you start with all even stats, you won't even notice the bonus at all.



Wheel of Fortune: Turn one object of medium size or smaller into gold.

Does a magical item keep its properties? Also, can this card be used to produce gold more valuable than the card itself (allowing for infinite wealth loops)?



Justice: Deals 50 points of damage to an evil or chaotic creature.

Again, defenseless damage is bad. If a party stocks up on these, most BBEGs you could prepare are gone in one or two rounds. Not having any maximum range only makes the matter worse.



The Hanged Man: Cause up to 50 points of asphyxiation damage on one target. They can be one at a time or all at once.

First, there is no such thing as asphyxiation damage. If you are being strangled, and fail a con check, you just suffocate in three rounds. Secondly, "they can be one at a time or all at once" makes no sense. I have some basic idea that you're talking about dealing the damage all at once or having it spread out but I don't know over what time frame you can spread it out (is 1 damage a day an option?) and the text doesn't say that I can split it in any other ways than all at once or 1 damage/interval (I can't deal 5 intervals of 10 damage, for example). Does the damage have to be used (if used for interrogation, can I not kill the guy if he cooperates)? Does this ability have any maximum range? As I'm unfamiliar with asphyxiation damage, can someone taking it still breathe and speak (and produce verbal components)? Does this work on creatures that don't breathe? Same problem as with the card directly above.



Death: Kills five creatures of your choosing. (they must be living, natural, etc.)

So you're party gets one of these and they can cleanse the land of the BBEG, his apprentice, his dragon, his deific father, and your evil half-brother, without any chance of failure, from halfway across the world. Or, hell, assassinate the kings of every major nation you've been in for kicks if you're evil This card doesn't work as written, even as an artifact. It has no maximum range, it allows for no defenses other than not working on some targets, and it has the potential to destroy most campaign settings by itself. At best, this card is a macguffin, and even then it's pretty extreme. As an extra note, the (living, natural, etc.) doesn't really help because what is natural or not isn't really described in the rules and I have NO CLUE what is included in the etc. What, precisely, can and can't you kill?



Temperance: Resurrects five dead creatures of your choosing.

Pretty extreme effect at the high end of what you could expect a wish or miracle to do. While possible to price, it seems a lot more like a Deus Ex Machina to give your party a second chance if they mess things up.



The Devil: Summons a Barbed Devil to fight for you who disappears at the end of the encounter.

Pretty decent.



The Tower: Gives a +4 AC bonus until the end of the encounter.

No real problems here. Does the AC bonus have any type or is it intentionally untyped (the same question actually applies to your other boosting cards, I suppose).



The Star: Shows the PCs which way to go to reach their objective.

This card is frustratingly vague to the point where I can't tell if it's laughably weak (your objective is somewhere to the east) or horrifyingly overpowered (acting as a super-powered find the path ability). Also, does it lead you where you want to go or where you think you want to go as the former would, again, really be quite difficult. So, yeah, vague.



The Moon: As Disguise Self but the illusion is impenetrable. Only a wizard could tell it was an illusion with a check.

This is... I don't know what this is. Why only a wizard and not sorcerers... or wu-jen... or clerics? For that matter, what type of check is needed (a class level check? A spellcraft check? A caster level check?). For another matter, seeing as traditional means of seeing through it are in spell form (such as true seeing), why not just state that it doesn't allow a save to disbelieve but that true seeing and similar effects still pierce it?


The Sun: As Daylight, but permanent, and creatures who are not affected by Daylight as opposed to actual light are affected.

Surprisingly handy, i think.



Judgement: Banishes one creature who is opposite in alignment to you to the Dungeons of the Marut.

What are the Dungeons of the Marut? Is there any defense? Is there any range? does it have to oppose you on both axes or only on one axis? Can a true neutral character use this on any extreme character or not ever use this at all?


The World: Teleport without error to anywhere.

First, teleport without error doesn't exist in 3.5. We have Greater Teleport. Secondly, the word "anywhere" would include other planes. Was that intentional? Third, whether or not it allows planar travel, teleportation has the limitations on having at least good descriptions of an area so that players don't go storming vaults, dungeons, and throne rooms to destroy entire campaigns so this ability once more seems unbalanced from my vantage point. The ability to teleport anywhere is definitely an artifact ability.

The Big Sum-Up: This item is weird. It does not use normal 3.5 terminology in several spaces and a few of the cards make me wonder if this card was either translated from an older edition (or another game entirely) or if it came from a heavily homebrewed campaign (in which case labeling it 3.5 is a bit misleading).

In terms of power, these cards are really all over the place. The abilities are a bit vague at times and lacking proper rules text for what defenses work and at what range they work (among other things), making some of them look insanely powerful. The level of power they provide ranges from the completely inconsequential (the hermit) to the campaign-breaking (death). Even if you needed to go around the world collecting every single card before you could use any of them and had to pick them at random (which nothing so far suggests), this would still feel too wild and powerful to be a mere wondrous item (at least in my opinion).

If you make these wondrous items in a 3.5 game, that means that you are allowing your players to craft and (more importantly) stockpile them even if you don't have "magic-mart" in your games. The moment you make them wondrous items, having your entire party each use the fool in a single round on a single foe (capable of taking down any non-epic creature) becomes possible (as a relatively tame example). These are one-shot items and will likely be expensive but the impact that those shots have is enough to utterly ignore most challenges if used wisely.

So, yeah, these seem like artifacts more than wondrous items and even then, some of them likely need to be toned down.

[STRANGE]

I appreciate all the feedback! You can always tell who is geniunely offering advice and who is trolling, and because you are actually helping me and now just yelling ERMAGERSH SO OP I will address these.

First of all: These cards are intended to be awarded based on party level. I am currently using these and a main plot point in a campaign and as the characters rise through levels, I give them cards, starting with The Chariot and ending with Death, etc. These probably should be artifacts, I agree, but I will keep them as wondrous items because although WI are supposed to be craftable/buyable, the ranging power levels make it so that half of the cards would be artifacts and half would be minor WI.



This card is frustratingly vague to the point where I can't tell if it's laughably weak (your objective is somewhere to the east) or horrifyingly overpowered (acting as a super-powered find the path ability). Also, does it lead you where you want to go or where you think you want to go as the former would, again, really be quite difficult. So, yeah, vague.

This is intended to be DM discretion based. DO what you think is appropriate. I was thinking more direction based. Ever played Skyrim? Like the clairvoyance spell.


What are the Dungeons of the Marut? Is there any defense? Is there any range? does it have to oppose you on both axes or only on one axis? Can a true neutral character use this on any extreme character or not ever use this at all?

Marut are lawful outsiders, otherwise known as Inevitables. This is SRD stuff. Their Dungeons is Presumably where they lock up all the chaotic demons. Base a quest around it. Use your imagination. DM discretion. Range, etc, whatever man. Whatever suits the way you want to use it in your case.


Probably one of the weakest ones. Also, I'm just noticing that you rely on the vague term "party", even though, in D&D, that term doesn't actually mean anything. I could declare that the entire army behind me is party of my party and get bonuses for everyone. Most effects aiming for this type of goal either set a limit for the number of beneficiaries (say, 5) or sets a limitation on space (such as summoning a riding horse for every ally within 30 feet).

Note how I didn't put levels on these cards. DM discretion. I meant in this case a Horse for every PC, but if you want to mount an army and use it as higher level MI, go for it.

TL;DR: Use your imagination. Base a quest around each card. Don't give the Chariot to 9th level PCs, don't give the Hierophant to 1st level PCs. DM Discretion.

Thanks for taking the time to give me a detailed review! :smallbiggrin:

[Vadskye]

This is intended to be DM discretion based.

Use your imagination. DM discretion. Range, etc, whatever man. Whatever suits the way you want to use it in your case.

Note how I didn't put levels on these cards. DM discretion.

TL;DR: Use your imagination. Base a quest around each card. Don't give the Chariot to 9th level PCs, don't give the Hierophant to 1st level PCs. DM Discretion.
If the cards were well-designed, the DM wouldn't be required to make up 90% of their rules.

[STRANGE]

If the DM was competent he could decide when something is a good idea and when it isn't.

[Debihuman]

99% of most DMs aren't as good as they think they are1, which is why I'm not as fond of these cards as I could be. I don't like to give the DM a chance to play favorites and this deck does that so handily.

Debby
1 99% of everything is crap. Sturgeon's Law.

[D_Man_7733]

I see these as a good idea, but they aren't refined, there isn't much to say that hasn't been said. DM Discretion is "when and who" to give the card to, and the fine points of more obscure spells.

I think what people expect from a deck of magical cards is the ability to have them all at once, and pull some really cool stuff with them. As it stands they are used up after use then the low level cards are completely useless at high levels unless you have a lot of them.

You said that The Star was like the clairvoyance spell, MAKE it like the clairvoyance spell. "A glowing trail visible only to the caster leads you your objective for 24 hours".

Teleport is something well defined in the D&D universe, but to what extent does the teleportation operate with this card. Could I just say "the big bads secret hidehout" and show up on his doorstep even though I have no idea what it looks like nor where it is?

These cards are great in concept, but in practices they don't hold up. How much are they? If I want to create a storage of Star cards how do I create them, do I need to hunt down one of the ancient sorcerers who may or may not exist in my game world, and hope that they can sell me some for a price undetermined except by GM fiat?

EDIT: I see these as very useful in different worlds, mass produce things like the star and chariot and make them a part of everyday life (nobody in the big city would be caught dead without a guide to their favourite shop, anybody travelling is likely to take advantage of horses that don't eat or sleep). The current world I'm working on would have these two at least in certain cities.

[faircoin]

If the DM was competent he could decide when something is a good idea and when it isn't.

Let me point out that those who yell OP aren't trolling. They could be a bit more verbose, but you aren't doing any credit to yourself calling them trolls.

Now, addressing your point above.

The distinction "wondrous item" or "artifact" would not mean anything whatsoever if all DMs were competent or wished to invest time into determining appropriateness. Which is fine, if the distinction means nothing to you, and only competent and insightful DMs are allowed to use your homebrew without their games spontaneously disassembling.

Otherwise, I suggest you consider whether it's more appropriate as a wondrous item or artifact.

[Vadskye]

The distinction "wondrous item" or "artifact" would not mean anything whatsoever if all DMs were competent or wished to invest time into determining appropriateness. Which is fine, if the distinction means nothing to you, and only competent and insightful DMs are allowed to use your homebrew without their games spontaneously disassembling.

Exactly. If you assume that both the DM and players are competent, know all aspects of the rules, and follow a gentleman's agreement to use those rules appropriately, then you could play F.A.T.A.L. and have fun. (Probably.) The reason we should put effort into writing good homebrew is because not every group is perfect. Including our own, if we're honest.

[NichG]

To make it clear for the original poster, the objection to 'wondrous item' is mostly because by the book that means PCs can choose to craft these cards at their own whim. So that removes the aspect of DM control that you're advocating. If its an 'artifact', they cannot do so, and the only way to get the items is through the DM introducing them.

I have a fair number of tarot-based effects in my campaigns (one of my players in particular is very gung-ho for this kind of thing and is the sort to draw 'the entire deck' when faced with a DoMT), so I can appreciate lists like this.

As far as my own take on the cards mechanics/etc, in my campaigns I'd probably make this a deck rather than individual cards, where the draw is un-defeatably random each time (e.g. no divination or going back and drawing again cheats to get around the chance), but each card can only appear once. So you don't necessarily know that you're going to have to declare five deaths this time. It means there's a larger chance of the effects being expended without being calculated to do as much plot damage as possible (and also rewards the quick-thinking player who can figure out how to make it effective on the flow).

As far as balance considerations, etc, I'd tweak things here or there. Since we've got cards that can kill any 5 beings period, why not make the stat gain from Hermit permanent, for example. For chariot, how about 'mounts appropriate to the environment' which allows for creative uses on other planes and the like. For Moon, just make the illusion undefeatable period - its not really that big a deal for a one-off item if it beats True Seeing (and for those who want precedent, there's the Mind Blank beats True Seeing argument).

That said, the Death card is really the only one of these I'd have serious problems introducing to a campaign. Specifically, I would only use it in a campaign without a primary antagonist (okay, so you kill five people, the show still goes on) or in a campaign where the primary antagonist is using heavy security-by-obscurity (the 'you only ever learn the name of the end boss at the last session' kind of campaign). I've had items that act like a low-end version of that card that have sliced months off of my campaigns (e.g., someone got an item that summons a creature that 'resolves one immediate situation to your benefit' that ended up prematurely ending a plot arc when it was used for the right situation).

Anyhow, I'm ending with what I probably should have started with, which is namely, for the OP, what are you looking to get out of comments on these items? Ideas for changes, stories about their use, etc?