3.5 Scribe Scrolls with Help

[HalfQuart]

So I'm aware that the MiC page 232 has rules that allow a character with a crafting feat to work with other characters to meet the prerequisites for a particular item, such as by providing the requisite spell. My question is: can a Wizard with Scribe Scroll scribe divine scrolls for a Ranger or Paladin?

Specifically my situation is that I'm playing a Wizard in a group with an Archivist, Ranger, and Paladin... but the Archivist has had very limited access to divine scrolls, and so has a rather limited spell selection. I'd like to help things along a bit by getting him spells off the other classes' spell lists. Would this work? Or can I only make arcane scrolls?

[Verditude]

From the Scribe Scroll feat:

You can create a scroll of any spell that you know.

So no, I don't think so.

[BowStreetRunner]

From the Scribe Scroll feat:
Quote: You can create a scroll of any spell that you know.
So no, I don't think so.

That's actually the wording used by most of the item creation feats from the PHB. However, the item creation rules in the DMG (p 215) and Magic Item Compendium (p 232) state that more than one character can cooperate in creating a magic item. When they do so, every character contributing one of the prerequisites (feat, spell, etc.) is considered the creator. As long as one of the creators knows the spell and one of the creators has the scribe scroll feat, they can craft the scroll.

The only restriction is that the character providing the feat must also be the one paying any XP cost.

So yes, an arcane caster with Scribe Scroll could work with a divine caster to create a scroll of that spell. The spell level and caster level would be determined by the character contributing the spell, not the character contributing the feat.

[ksbsnowowl]

So yes, an arcane caster with Scribe Scroll could work with a divine caster to create a scroll of that spell. The spell level and caster level would be determined by the character contributing the spell, not the character contributing the feat.

Correct. There is one additional bit of information that you have forgotten, however. Scrolls are either Arcane or Divine. That would be determined by the one with the feat, and expending the XP. Thus, if the above collaboration were of Cure Light Wounds, you would end up with an arcane scroll of CLW; it could be used freely by any Bard. If instead the collaboration were of Hunter's Mercy, then you would have an arcane scroll of Hunter's Mercy, and it could only be activated via a Use Magic Device check.

[JaronK]

Interestingly, this means Archivists can team up with anyone to get any spell in the game ever. Yeesh.

JaronK

[Barsoom]

Which is why I never viewed Archivist as an actual character class. It's more of a "how powerful can I make him?" theoretical exercise.

[ksbsnowowl]

Interestingly, this means Archivists can team up with anyone to get any spell in the game ever. Yeesh.

JaronK

And I wouldn't fault any DM for requiring the spell to be scribed to actually come from a divine source, not via an unintended side affect of the collaborative creation rules.

Interestingly, in Eberron this situation leads to artificers creating scrolls that are neither arcane nor divine, and can only be activated via UMD.

[HalfQuart]

Great, thanks for the info everyone.

[BowStreetRunner]

Scrolls are either Arcane or Divine. That would be determined by the one with the feat, and expending the XP.

Interesting. However, I cannot find the rules for this. Could you provide a page reference please? I would be very interested in putting this to use in a game if I can back it up with a rule citation for the DM.

[ksbsnowowl]

Interesting. However, I cannot find the rules for this. Could you provide a page reference please? I would be very interested in putting this to use in a game if I can back it up with a rule citation for the DM.


To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

* The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
* The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
* The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.


To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats. They invest time, money, and their own personal energy (in the form of experience points) in an item’s creation.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

To paraphrase the important bits: "To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats ... [and] ... invest... their own... experience points."

The "creator" is the one expending the XP. This is generally the same person with the crafting feat, but an argument could be made that an assistant could be the one providing the feat. The one expending the XP determines what type of scroll it is, arcane or divine.

[Agincourt]

Just to back up what ksbsnowowl said (the information he quoted can also be found on page 238 of the DMG.)

From the MiC 232:
It's perfectly acceptable for two or more characters to work together to create a magic item, with each character supplying some of the prerequisites.... The XP cost must always be paid by the character who supplies the item creation feat required by the item, no matter how many other characters cooperate in its creation.

[BowStreetRunner]

The "creator" is the one expending the XP. This is generally the same person with the crafting feat, but an argument could be made that an assistant could be the one providing the feat. The one expending the XP determines what type of scroll it is, arcane or divine.

MIC 232 explicitly states "In all places where this text refers to the “creator” of a magic item, it includes all characters supplying at least one prerequisite for the item’s creation." So wouldn't than mean that the type of scroll may still be determined by the creator contributing the spell, not the creator contributing the feat and XP?

[ksbsnowowl]

MIC 232 explicitly states "In all places where this text refers to the “creator” of a magic item, it includes all characters supplying at least one prerequisite for the item’s creation." So wouldn't than mean that the type of scroll may still be determined by the creator contributing the spell, not the creator contributing the feat and XP?Ack! Sorry, I saw the p. 232 reference and thought you were posting the same thing Agincourt did. That'll teach me to post in a hurry.

Hmmm.....

My initial gut reaction is that the MIC conflicts with the text of the DMG, and the DMG takes precedence. I'll have to look into the minutiae of it at a later point.


Just to back up what ksbsnowowl said (the information he quoted can also be found on page 238 of the DMG.)

From the MiC 232:
It's perfectly acceptable for two or more characters to work together to create a magic item, with each character supplying some of the prerequisites.... The XP cost must always be paid by the character who supplies the item creation feat required by the item, no matter how many other characters cooperate in its creation.

Good to know for the future, thanks. The core rules on it are muddy, but I've always read it that the feat holder and the XP expender had to be the same person. I've just seen others argue otherwise over the years.