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DracoDei
2013-07-21, 07:28 PM
Eldan asked in the "Request a Homebrew" thread for something bigger to do, and I offered him this.

Eldan: I'm willing to explain anything that is unclear (and I promise you there is some of that, I just don't know WHAT).

Most Basic Concepts:
Think of whatever code you believe should embody Law and/or Good. Think of the details.
Now make the following changes:
First off, poison is fair game. PROVIDED it deals no permanent effects, and its use invokes a commitment to not kill that person or leave them in circumstances where the damage ((hitpoints, ability scores, etc)) you inflicted would likely lead to their death, and treat them as well as you would an honorably surrendered foe if you capture them. This is treatment is known as "The Oath of Capture", and is invoked by many of this class's abilities.

Secondly, those who violate The Code are not protected by it unless they are part of a chain of command that will punish them sufficiently.

Torture must be applied only to violators of The Code, and only publicly, with an honest explaination of the crimes of they are guilty of, or where information extracted from them could be reasonably expected to save the lives innocents and/or non-combatants.

Subterfuge, including lying (but not such things as feinting in combat), is permitted only where there is good evidence of The Code being violated. Until and unless proof of this is obtained, killing must be kept to a minimum, and any intelligence discovered must be kept strictly confidential so it may not be used against the suspected individual or group.
If you think that make it only a Code of Law, and not one of (potentially) Good, then so be it. Limit the class to the


How I have the mechanics support this:
When fighting lethally, this class should be able to just sorta get by in combat.

These guys get every possible means to capture targets alive. As I currently envision them, they are the most unstopable of pursuers... they can even bring a target back from the dead against their will, although at GREAT cost to themselves. They can deal subdual damage and ability score damage to constructs and undead at higher levels, and they get spells at a rather slow progression true... but up to 9th level spells.

I'd probably strip them of their favored enemies, even though it would only apply when they have good reason to suspect The Code has been violated.

There are one or two efforts at making poison more practical. I went with reducing the cost to keep things simple... yes, nearly unprecidented for me.






What I have so far(it is a mess):
I'd probably call this a high tier 3, maybe tier 2.

The following would help them deliver enough doses of poison to matter, especially at lower levels:
Special version of TWF and Weapon Finesse that removes all strength bonuses to damage?
Alternatively Rapid Shot and Precise Shot, again can't get strength bonuses to damage? Damage halved until level 3.

Must be lawful WRT The Code or fall.
Matchless Honesty (Like Matchless Loyalty, but works for lying that would pervert the justice of The Code)


Skill list: Bluff(Cha)?, Concentration(Con), Craft(Int), Disguise(Cha)?, Diplomacy(Cha), Forgery(Int), Gather Information(Cha), Heal(Wis), Intimidate(Cha), Knowledge[Arcana(Intelligent Constructs, Dragons, Magical Beasts](Int), Knowledge[Dungeoneering(Abberations)], Knowledge[Local], Knowledge[Nature(fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, intelligent plants](Int), ?Knowledge[Nobility and Royalty](Int)?, Knowledge[Religion](Int), Knowledge[The Planes](Int), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), Search(Int), Sense Motive(Wis), Spellcraft(Int), Survival(Wis), Use Rope(Dex)
Skill Points 6 + Int


{table=head]~|
~|{colsp=3}
Base Saves|
~|{colsp=10}
Spells per Day

Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|
Special Abilities|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Blessed Poison Use, Combat Style, Divine Grace(Compulsions and Charms), Grip of Truth (1/day), Information Over Slaughter (-2 penalty, Wisdom to-hit once per level per day), Mental Stability, Remove the Hurt, Truth-Seeker| 2 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -

2nd| +2|+3|+0|+3|Detect Chaos, Information Over Slaughter (-1 penalty), Rebuke the Post-Mortal| 3 | 0*| - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -

3rd| +3| +3|+1| +3|Aura of Courage, Information Over Slaughter (no penalty) | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | -

4th| +4| +4|+1| +4|Grip of Truth (2/day), No Escape for Cowards(No Save) | 3 | 1 | 0*| - | - | - | - | - | - | -

5th| +5| +4|+1| +4|Divine Grace (Charisma to Will Saves) | 3 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | -

6th| +6/+1| +5|+2| +5|Detect Evil/Detect Good/Improved Detect Chaos, 1st Favored Enemy of the Code| 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| - | - | - | - | - | -

7th| +7/+2| +5|+2| +5|Capture the Post Mortal | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | -

8th| +8/+3| +6|+2| +6|Grip of Truth (3/day), No Escape for Cowards (No Spell-Resistance) | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| - | - | - | - | -

9th| +9/+4| +6|+3| +6|Divine Grace(Charisma or Wisdom to Fortitude and Reflex saves) | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | - | -

10th| +10/+5| +7|+3| +7|Bonus Feat | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| - | - | - | -

11th| +11/+6/+1| +7|+3| +7|2nd Favored Enemy of the Code | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | - | -

12th| +12/+7/+2| +8|+4| +8|Grip of Truth (4/day), Matchless Honesty | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| - | - | -

13th| +13/+8/+3| +8|+4| +8|Capture the Created | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | - | -

14th| +14/+9/+4| +9|+4| +9|Bonus Feat | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| - | -

15th| +15/+10/+5| +9|+5| +9|Capture the Post Mortal(No -5 DC) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | -

16th| +16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Grip of Truth (5/day), 3rd Favored Enemy of The Code | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*| -

17th| +17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Slippery Mind | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | -

18th| +18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Bonus Feat | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0*

19th| +19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|4th Favored Enemy of The Code | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Capture the Created(No -5 DC), Grip of Truth (6/day), Zone of Ultimate Truth 1/day | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2
[/table]

Light Armor, Shields, Simple and Martial weapons
((Light armor for speed of pursuit, and balance reasons. Shields allowed to give options and survivability. Enforce this with Arcane Spell Failure for medium and heavy armor, despite divine flavor of class?))


((Spellcasting is prepared, wisdom based, and is one class level back AND -1 spell per level from the sorcerer/wizard...))

((Oath of capture applies to poisons and all offensive spells. Applies to all creatures in encounters where walls are used. Does not apply to mindless creatures, but such creatures always make their saves against all spells.))
Rebuke the Post-Mortal (Su): This functions in all ways as a cleric's ability to rebuke/command undead/deathless with the following exceptions: It only functions on intelligent undead and deathless, and it always rebukes/commands, never turns/destroys regardless of alignment or creature type. Using this ability invokes the Oath of Capture with regard to all undead and deathless in the area of effect.

Blessed Poison Use (Su): ((Can use injury/wisdom effecting poison at 1/3 the volume (and thus cost) required per dose provided he both applies it and makes the attacks. This invokes the Oath of capture. No stuff that effects Constitution, and nothing that does drain rather than damage. Maybe give increased DCs at later levels to help them keep pace.

Note: Even if "One dose lasts for three strikes" thing is implimented, destroyable projectiles should still only require 1/3 of a dose for full effects. This is obvious in retrospect.))

Divine Grace (Su): A Paladin of the code adds their charisma bonus to all saving throws against Compulsions and Charms.

At 5th level this instead applies to all will saves.

At 9th level they ALSO add their charisma bonus or wisdom bonus, whichever is higher, to Fortitude and Reflex saves.

Information Over Slaughter (Su): Not all who are innocent surrender without a fight, and many who are guilty fight on even when death is inevitable, denying themselves and the public the benefits of a fair trial and the benefits of intelligence they might provide... in some cases more than other.

At first level a paladin of the code only takes a -2 to hit when striking for nonlethal damage with a weapon that usually deals lethal damage.

At 2nd level this improves to only a -1 penalty, and at 3rd level they take no penalty.

Once per day per class level they may instead take no penalty (if they would take any penalty) when striking for subdual damage and gain their wisdom bonus to hit. ?This does not stack with the wisdom substitution allowed by the combat styles.?

Grip of Truth (Su): Once per day as a full-round action, a paladin of the code may gain a bonus equal to their charisma modifier or twice their class level, whichever is greater, on sense motive checks on a creature they are touching. This also suppresses controlling mental influences as per Protection from Chaos. ((Can detect charm etc with Sense Motive despite them being suppressed.)) These effects bonus last until they lose physical contact with the creature, or 1 minute per class level, whichever comes first.

At 4th level, and at every four levels thereafter, the paladin of the code may use grip of truth one additional time per day.

NO DIVINE HEALTH, SPECIAL MOUNT, REMOVE DISEASE, OR TURN UNDEAD.

Mental Stability (Ex): ((Mostly-fluff ability explaining why they can torture without becoming too desensitized.))

Heal the Hurt (Sp): ((Can Lay on Hands for twice class level hitpoints OR class level divided by three ability damage he caused. No daily limit, allows save and SR, but [Harmless]))

Detect Chaos (Sp): Starting at 2nd level, at-will, a Paladin of the Code can use detect chaos, as the spell.

Truth Seeker (Ex): A Paladin of the Code is a dispassionate judge, who sees clearly and without bias.
A Paladin of The Code never mistakes the truth for a lie when using sense motive, and opposed bluff checks against them count any harm or risk to innocents or allies that the Paladin of the Code can discern as risk or harm to the Paladin of the Code themself. These bonuses still apply normally to others the bluff check is opposed by.

Starting at 3rd level, bluff checks against them never gain a bonus for the Paladin of the Code wanting to believe the bluff.

Aura of Courage (Su):
Beginning at 3rd level, a Paladin of The Code is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

No Escape for Cowards (Su): All [Harmless] spells that a 4th level or higher Paladin of The Code casts from their own spell-slots on a single target that they are bound by their Oath of Capture towards do not allow a saving throw. Thus, for instance, a captured enemy who tried drank poison could be easily cured against their will, or a superstitious and distrustful individual could have Owl's Wisdom or Fox's Cunning forced on them against their will in hopes of enabling them to see the situation more clearly.

At 8th level such spells also do not allow spell resistance.

Capture the Post-Mortal(Su): At 7th level or higher, a Paladin of The Code can deal subdual damage to deathless and undead creatures with intelligence scores of 3 or greater, and injury poisons on his weapons effect them, albiet with a -5 to the save DC. If they strike a unintelligent creature while trying to use this ability, then no poison is consumed and the damage dealt is lethal.

At 15th level the -5 to the DCs of poisons on undead and deathless is removed.

Bonus Feat(Ex): ((THE TWO EXTRA SPELL ACCESS FEATS IF I INCLUDE THEM. Alertness, Combat Casting, Deceitful, Divine Metamagic(Still OR Silence), Eschew Material Components, Extra Turning, Greater Spell Focus[Enchantment OR Illusion], Greater Spell Penetration, Investigator, Improved Counterspell, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Improved Turning, Iron Will, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Negotiator, Persuasive, Skill Focus , Rapid Reload, Run, Silent Spell, Spell Focus[Enchantment OR Illusion], Spell Penetration, Stealthy, Still Spell, Stunning Fist, Track, Weapon Focus[Any light melee, or weapon capable of multiple ranged attacks in one round, without magic]))

[B]Capture the Created(Su): At 13th level or higher, a Paladin of The Code can deal subdual damage to constructs with intelligence scores of 3 or greater, and injury poisons on his weapons effect them, albiet with a -5 to the save DC. If they strike a unintelligent creature while trying to use this ability, then no poison is consumed and the damage dealt is lethal.


At 20th level the -5 penalty no longer applies.

Slippery Mind (Ex): Starting at 17th level

Zone of Ultimate Truth (Su):
(( Requires expending 2 daily uses of Grip of Truth. 10' radius/caster level, 1 minute/caster level
1/round Disjunction against all [Charms] and [Compulsions] in area ((Magic items causing such effects are surpressed for duration))
Heightened to 9th level Zone of Truth[i] effect.
Grants [i]True Seeing to all in area, but only for things that are ALSO in the area.
+caster level to all Sense Motive checks.
Optionally can place Otiluke's Resiliant Sphere/Spherical Wall of Force around area PLUS Dimensional Lock?
Calm Emotions effect (NOT effected by Disjunction) with duration 2 minutes less than duration of overall effect.
))

((Charge a feat each for access to "Protected Individuals Only" and "Undercover Only" with the second being the one that adds Bluff, Disguise, and MAKING forged documents to their repetiore? Or maybe one for access to levels 0 to 4 in each category and another for levels 5 to 9?))

Spells:
((Look through wizard, ranger, and druid lists for more stuff... and maybe the cleric list again... I was pretty out of it when I took my first pass. Give non-paladin, non-cleric stuff as advanced learning options?))
To add: Entangle
0th:
Arcane Mark
Create Water*
Daze*
Hydrate(Invokes Oath of Capture if save is rolled, and caster doesn't allow save to auto-succeed. ((This spell fully rehydrates a touched target, and has a full-round casting time.)) )
Light
Read Magic
Resistance**
Virtue**
* Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only. ((Note to self: Mention the tendency of those with Leadership to swap cohorts between adventures, since they see it as a teaching opportunity.))

1st:(Split this into 0th and 1st...)
Alarm?
Animate Rope
Bane
Bless
Cause Fear*
Charm Person*
Command*
Comprehend Languages
Color Spray*
Cure Minor Wounds
Deathwatch (WITHOUT THE @%$#@$ [Evil] tag)
Detect Evil(Good only)
Detect Good(Evil only)
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Detect Secret Doors
Disguise Self***
Doom*
Enlarge Person (Self only, and only if have Improved Graple Feat)
Endure Elements
Entangle*
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Floating Disk
Hypnotism*
Identify (only detects abilities that aid deception/hiding, or are violations of The Code?)
Jump
Know Direction
Longstrider
Magic Aura
Magic Weapon
Mount?
Protection from Chaos
Protection from Evil(Good only)
Protection from Good(Evil only)
Ray of Enfeeblement*
Remove Fear**
Sleep*
Speak with Animals
True Strike
Touch of Fatigue*
Ventriloquism***
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

2nd:
Alter Self***
Arcane Lock?
Align Weapon
Animal Messenger***
Augury
Calm Emotions*
Command Undead (Intelligent Only)*
Cure Light Wounds
Darkvision
Daze Monster*
Delay Poison**
Detect Thoughts*
Eagle's Splendor(Self or Undercover only)
Enthrall*
Find Traps
Grease*
Gentle Repose
Ghoul Touch*(Invokes Oath only on person touched, not those just hit with the smell)
Hideous Laughter*
Hold Animal (Ridden only, invokes Oath on rider)
Hold Person*
Hold Portal
Hypnotic Pattern*
Invisibility(** OR ***)
Knock
Locate Object
Pyrotechnics*
Spider Climb
Rope Trick**
Magic Mouth
Misdirection***
Owl's Wisdom
Remove Paralysis**
Restoration, Lesser
Scare*
See Invisibility
Shield Other
Spider Climb
Status**
Tree Shape***
Undetectable Alignment***
Web*
Whispering Wind***
Zone of Truth
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

3rd:
Arcane Sight
Bestow Curse*
Create Food and Water
Cure Moderate Wounds
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Deep Slumber*
Discern Lies
Dispel Magic
Fly
Fox's Cunning
Halt Undead (intelligent undead only)*
Helping Hand
Invisibility Purge
Locate Object
Major Image?
Magic Circle Against Chaos
Magic Circle Against Evil(Good only)
Magic Circle Against Good(Evil only)
Meld Into Stone
Nondetection
Obscure Object***
Phantom Steed
Quench(No magic items)
Ray of Exhaustion*
Remove Blindness/Deafness**
Remove Curse**
Remove Disease**
Sepia Snake Sigil* OR **
Sleet Storm?*
Slow*
Speak with Dead
Speak with Plants
Stinking Cloud*
Suggestion*
Tongues
Water Breathing
Water Walk
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

4th:
Air Walk
Arcane Eye
Black Tentacles (Subdual damage)*
Charm Monster*
Crushing Despair*
Cure Serious Wounds
Daylight
Death Ward**
Detect Scrying
Dimensional Anchor*
Dimension Door
Dispel Chaos**
Dispel Evil (Good only)**
Dispel Good (Evil only)**
Divination
Enervation*
Fear*
Freedom of Movement**
Geas, Lesser(Informed Consent only)
Imbue with Spell Ability**
Invisibility, Greater***
Locate Creature
Mark of The Code (As per Mark of Justice, but can only force them to follow The Code, or report to testify at a REASONABLE place and time regarding violations of The Code)
Mental Poison(As per Poison, but effects Wisdom, and can't reduce it below 1.)
Neutralize Poison**
Polymorph?*** (if damaged for more than 10% of total hitpoints then ends?)
Rainbow Pattern*
Resilient Sphere*
Restoration
Scrying
Sending
Slowing Poison* (as per Poison, but effects Dexterity)
Solid Fog*
Spell Immunity** (unless all spells protected against are things that can pervert truth such as: Charm/Dominate/Magic Jar)
Spike Stones*
Wall of Ice*
Weakening Poison* (as per Poison, but effects Strength)
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

5th:
Atonement
Break Enchantment((VS Mind Effecting OR On Protected individual only))
Command, Greater*
Commune
(Lesser) Commune with Nature(Limited selection, always the following three: intelligent plants, people, presence of powerful unnatural creatures.)
Cure Critical Wounds
Deathless to Undeath ((Evil Only. See Undeath to Deathless below, but this spell will probably never be needed.))
Dream
Dominate Person*
False Vision***
Hold Monster*
Persistant Image*
Prying Eyes
Nightmare
Mage's Private Sanctum**
Magic Weapon, Greater
Magic Jar***
Mark of Justice(Informed Consent only)
Mind Fog*
Modify Memory***((One level higher to MAYBE keep it on par with the class level that the Bard gets it. Maybe should be two...))
Plane Shift(Requires 1 minute "warm up" only works on those in continual contact for that period)
Seeming***
Spell Resistance**
Symbol of Pain*((Remove [Evil] tag?))
Symbol of Sleep*
Undeath to Deathless ((Good Only. New spell I need to write. Only works on those who entered undeath unwillingly and are intelligent undead. Restores all class levels from life minus one (minimum 1, in which case reduce two mental ability scores of the target's choice by 1 point each.), and changes their type to Deathless. No special abilities beyond the type gained, and maybe not even all of those. One hour casting time. Requires one minute of uninterupted physical contact to activate.))
Lesser Telepathic Bond(10' range/level, exiting surpresses)***
Passwall
Transmute Rock to Mud?*
Teleport
True Seeing
Unwilling Raise Dead (Costs Paladin of the Code TWO levels and invokes Oath of Capture if target turns out to be unwilling, limit of 2 hours per caster level)
Wall of Force*
Wall of Thorns*
Waves of Fatigue*
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

6th:
Blade Barrier* (Deals subdual damage to all creatures vulnerable to such, lethal to all others)
Contigency**
Cure Light Wounds, Mass
Dispel Magic, Greater
Eagle's Splendor, Mass?***
Eyebite*
Find the Path
Forbiddance
Geas/Quest(Informed Consent only)
Gaurds and Wards
Programmed Image?***
Liveoak**(Doesn't function if you are within 300 feet of it?)
Owl's Wisdom, Mass?
Shadow Walk
Stone Tell
Symbol of Fear*
Symbol of Persuasion*
Transport Via Plants
Veil***
Wind Walk
Wall of Stone*
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

7th:
Lesser Blashemy (No killing or banishing, Evil Only)
Control Undead (Intelligent Only)
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Lesser Dictum (No killing or banishing)
Ethereal Jaunt
Forcecage*
Grasping Hand* (grappling only)
Heal
Hold Person, Mass*
Holy Word* (No killing or banishing, Good Only)
Project Image***
Refuge**
Regenerate**
Restoration, Greater
Sequester**
Scrying Greater
Statue*/**
Symbol of Stunning*
Symbol of Weakness*
Teleport, Greater
Transmute Metal to Wood*
Unwilling Resurrection (Costs Paladin of the Code TWO levels and invokes Oath of Capture if target turns out to be unwilling, limit of 1 day per caster level)
Vision
Wall of Iron* (must be summoned so it can't fall over)
Waves of Exhaustion*
Word of Recall
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

8th:
Animal Shapes***
Antimagic Field (Grip of Truth still functions)
Binding*
Charm Monster, Mass*
Clone?**
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass
Demand*
Dimensional Lock*
Discern Location
Holy Aura (Good only)
Irresistable Dance*
Maze*
Mind Blank
Power Word Stun*
Prying Eyes, Greater
Scintillating Pattern*
Screen***
Shield of Law
Spell Immunity, Greater**
Sympathy?*
Temporal Stasis*/**((Note to self: if have it for both reasons, the spell slot doesn't differentiate between them, only needs at least one of them to be true at the time of casting.))
Telekinetic Sphere*
Trap the Soul*(Never requires a service, Trigger Object version can only be used in "Undercover Mode")
Unholy Aura (Evil Only)
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.

9th:
Astral Projection
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Crushing Hand* (Grapling for nonlethal damage ONLY)
Dominate Monster*
Energy Drain* (any levels that would result in hitpoints falling below 0 or level falling below 1 are not lost)
Etherealness
Freedom*/**
Foresight**
Hold Monster, Mass*
Imprisonment*
Mage's Disjunction
Refuge**
Shapechange(10% damage ends)
Soul Bind*((Have to try to resurrect at least once, but gem does NOT have to be broken, merely held by caster.))
Time Stop (No spellcasting of anything with a duration longer than instantanious)
Unwilling True Resurrection(Costs Paladin of the Code ONE level and invokes Oath of Capture if target turns out to be unwilling, limit of one month per caster level)
True Resurrection**
*Invokes Oath of Capture
** Protected individuals only.
***Undercover only.






Kevin McCabe recommends: Song of Roland (internet search it, will be public domain), he also says this is a net positive to publish.[/SPOILER]

DracoDei
2013-07-21, 07:46 PM
Keep an eye out for little edits. I'll try to keep you updated on the specifics, but so far it includes clarifing the "Capture the Post Mortal/Created" abilities.

Eldan
2013-07-22, 03:02 AM
Okay. I'll just put down some first thought as I read.

Code: Poison is fair game, sure. I never saw that as very chaotic or evil, unless it's incredibly painful. Torture, however? I don't think that's good. It's in the definition, really. Without the torture, it could be lawful good. With it, more lawful neutral. But whatever, your class.

First look: this class looks overloaded with features. Full casting and class features at every level, often several of them? Filler features such as bonus feats? And a good part of the spells it gets have to be rewritten? Seems like it needs some slimming down, really.

For now, I'll treat it like a Beguiler, a limited list caster with class features.

I think you are probably trying to do too much with one class. I don't think it you need to rewrite half the system, including spells and feats, for one class. It would probably be fine with just some nonlethal-related features and spells.

Name: Paladin of the Code is weird. Paladin of Mercy? Paladin of Justice? Retriever? Something like that.

Sentence I don't understand: "Applies to all creatures in encounters where walls are used." Walls?

Rebuke the Post-mortal: nonlethal turn undead. Very good and fitting. Turn undead comes in several grades. For this, I'm thinking that instead of keeping undead away, it keeps them close. Grade 1: Undead can't move further away from the X. Grade 2: undead "paralyzed", without calling it paralyzation to avoid triggering keywords.

Blessed Poison: seems to be a central feature. TO make the class poison themed, I'd build more around it. Suggestions for wording: instead of applying one third of a dose, how about making one dose last for three attacks, for a weapon poison? That could scale nicely. Scaling DC is a necessity. How about applying the user's charisma to DC, to represent their conviction?

Divine Grace: fine, fine. As the paladin, but scaled. Nothing much to say.

Information over slaughter: this class' smite, yes? Honestly a bit underwhelming. This is what you specialize in. Do it better. I don't think it would be in any way overpowered if you started this class out with no penalty to nonlethal attacks. Add a smite on top of that, with bonus damage.

Grip of truth: first thought: is this necessary? Both Protection from Chaos and Zone of Truth are on the spell list.

Mental Stability: I suggest rolling it into divine grace. Bonus against various insanity-like effects.

No Escape for Cowards: beautiful and doesn't need much changing.

Bonus feats: why? This class has a ton of features. Just to avoid dead levels? If that's the problem, scale something else.

Zone of Ultimate truth: I'd say this is a feature that deserves to be staggered out over the class levels. Again, however, I'm wondering if it's needed. This is a full caster class. It has all those spells on its list.

Favoured Enemy of the Code would be similar to a ranger's favoured enemy, yes? How about changing that to something a bit more unique here. There's the Bloodhound (I think?) class in one of the completes, I'm tempted to say Adventurer, now that I'm away from book. It specializes in bringing down a single creature its sworn to catch. Something similar might work here. You swear to catch a single creature and gain bonuses to do so.

The Spell List: With this many class features, especially if you want to keep those that produce effects that are themselves similar ot spells, I'd go over this list with a hedge trimmer. Cut by half, at least, it needs more focus. Just on level 1...
Buff spells: I'm torn on those. I'll probably leave them in, but fewer of them.
Debuffs: what the class is about.
Utility: where it probably needs to lose the most.
Should probably go: cause fear (it makes the target run away, and you have several features to prevent that), comprehend languages (I'm not seeing it),


In general:
Does too much. Really. First of all, it has a ton of spells. Then it has class features that mainly work with things that aren't spells: you can't apply poison to spells or make them nonlethal (though you don't seem to have any damage spells).
I can see what you want to do with this class. The problem is, it is very unfocused. You should probably start by deciding this: is this a self-buffing melee class, like a Paladin, or a spellcaster focused on disabling enemies? I'd say go for one, but not both. Depending on which, I'd start dropping things.

DracoDei
2013-07-22, 11:40 AM
Okay. I'll just put down some first thought as I read.

Code: Poison is fair game, sure. I never saw that as very chaotic or evil, unless it's incredibly painful. Torture, however? I don't think that's good. It's in the definition, really. Without the torture, it could be lawful good. With it, more lawful neutral. But whatever, your class.
Ideally I think the way I dealt with the torture thing should be included in the final class. In other words it should be left up to the individual Play Group. For now, just assume they can be Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil.

The following is probably best left as a note to myself (tends to derail into alignment debate):

Note also that at higher levels it shouldn't matter much, because they have enough ways to debuff will saves and then throw a Charm or Dominate on the target, or just divine what they need to know directly that a Good one would never need to resort to torture to get information (not that that is the ONLY reason I see them doing it). And they WOULD consider it a last resort.

Too bad I've never seen rules for torture.

I actually have a little story in my head that should explain what I see this class as being relative to torture, but I don't have time to type it up just now.


First look: this class looks overloaded with features. Full casting
That is very much NOT how I would define full casting. They get a very restricted spell-list, that has zeroes on it, and on top of the zeroes lags a what I would call a fullcaster by a level. I do have some ideas about fixing this further scattered through here.

I suppose I could see giving them some "really REALLY" core spells, and then selecting the rest like a sorcerer does. I already mentioned the possibility of them buying access to groups of spells with feats.

and class features at every level, often several of them? Filler features such as bonus feats?
The favored enemy stuff can go. Probably the bonus feats too.

*5 minutes into writing, but before posting this post* Wait a second... I just remembered why I put that in there probably. Something about giving options during character generation and level-up. I suppose if I kept the spellcasting that would cover it if kept at a decent level.

And a good part of the spells it gets have to be rewritten?
You say that like it is a bad thing. In programming it is known as "code reuse" or "inheritance". You make things work exactly right but by taking the old and tweaking it, rather than rewriting from scratch. Of course, copy-pasting the old spells, renaming them, and then adding underlined edits is perfectly acceptable.

Seems like it needs some slimming down, really.
Features every level are a good thing.

And I make it a policy never to slim down anything for the sake of making it easier to understand or play. Obviously, since you are going to be the one doing the actual work (or are you, try to avoid assumptions?), you might wish to take a different direction.

For now, I'll treat it like a Beguiler, a limited list caster with class features.
I have never read the Beguiler, so I have very little idea what you are talking about.

I could see letting them pick only a few of their spells per level that are about capture, keeping witnesses alive, or subterfuge.

Actually... you know what?

The subterfuge line of spells (and skills) can totally be a PrC. Probably one with a very early entry, but still a PrC.

I think you are probably trying to do too much with one class. I don't think it you need to rewrite half the system, including spells and feats, for one class.
Its kinda what I do. I don't ever spare word-count or complexity in my quest to make my EXACT vision (or as exact as the abstract vision is) a reality.

But, again, you are the one doing most of the work from here on (or are you?), or even (after we have discussed these things) taking the lead.


It would probably be fine with just some nonlethal-related features and spells.
Eh... maybe split it into two classes. On focused on the spells, the other on poison and nonlethal.



Name: Paladin of the Code is weird. Paladin of Mercy? Paladin of Justice? Retriever? Something like that.
The name can be whatever you like, but I think that is best saved for AFTER we figure out how it is actually going to work.



Sentence I don't understand: "Applies to all creatures in encounters where walls are used." Walls?
Wall of Force, Wall of Stone, Wall of Thorns, etc. Basically, if you use battlefield control spells (presumably to prevent the enemies escape), it invokes Oath of Capture, despite not actually targeting any enemies or having them in the area of effect. Simplest (wow, I really do keep things simple more than I thought I do) to just say it counts for all enemies in the current encounter.



Rebuke the Post-mortal: nonlethal turn undead. Very good and fitting. Turn undead comes in several grades. For this, I'm thinking that instead of keeping undead away, it keeps them close. Grade 1: Undead can't move further away from the X. Grade 2: undead "paralyzed", without calling it paralyzation to avoid triggering keywords.
Err... you are misreading slightly. The critical point is this is never "Turn (Destroy) Undead" or "Turn (Destroy) Deathless". It is "Rebuke Undead/Deathless". That means if you make the turning check right, and roll enough HD of effect for the "Turning Damage" then they usually cower in fear. If you happen to have twice as many class levels as the undead have hitdice then you instead Command them.

So, they are "paralyzed" for 10 rounds (1 minute), normally, and at the higher level you can order that ghoul to give you all the info on the necromancer who created him, then escort him back to base to later transform into a Deathless that regains the alignment, class level, and memories of its living self while losing most of the specific advantages of being a ghoul (and maybe a class level or two for balance reasons, plus fewer of the perks of being Deathless).



Blessed Poison: seems to be a central feature.
I don't think so much in terms of "central features". But yes, it was one of the first ones to occur to me, and is probably as central as the nonlethal and the spellcasting.


TO make the class poison themed, I'd build more around it.
The ranger-esque combat styles (listed at the very top of the "what I have so far" area) were my idea for how to build around it.


Suggestions for wording: instead of applying one third of a dose, how about making one dose last for three attacks, for a weapon poison?
That... is a very good idea. I'm not fully sold on it though.
Advantage: Loses none of the flavor or theme, while being simpler.
Disadvantage: I have been thinking in terms of "if the poison doesn't have much of a chance to drop them to 0 in a stat score before the subdual damage exceeds their hitpoint score then what is the point?". But maybe that is a flawed way of thinking?

At higher levels we still need to give them "Rapid Application".

That could scale nicely. Scaling DC is a necessity. How about applying the user's charisma to DC, to represent their conviction?
Charisma to DC could be good. Maybe spread out a bit. IE also cap the bonus by class level, or give half charisma bonus to DC at one level, and then full charisma bonus at a later level. Oh... and despite drawing from the paladin, this is a wisdom based class. The only reason I want to use Charisma for anything is when it would be adding twice wisdom to something otherwise (such as for will saves). I MAY have missed a few spots when making a conversion over from charisma to wisdom based.

Incidentally, that ability score choice is full intentional. When investigating tangled matters such as these guys stereotypically try to unravel (warcrimes, etc), charisma helps you convince the masses of the truth you discover... but wisdom makes sure it is the truth in the first place.



Divine Grace: fine, fine. As the paladin, but scaled. Nothing much to say.

Information over slaughter: this class' smite, yes?
Sorta... I really think of "Grip of Truth" being more of their Smite, despite it being an out of battle ability.

But yes I suppose it is really more their Smite mechanically.


Honestly a bit underwhelming. This is what you specialize in.
It is one way of doing what they specialize in.

Do it better. I don't think it would be in any way overpowered if you started this class out with no penalty to nonlethal attacks.
I'd love to do that, but are you sure that wouldn't make it too dippable?

Add a smite on top of that, with bonus damage.
Eh, I'd rather keep more of the spellcasting.
Note that they get a lot more of it per day than a paladin. I might also give them half their class level to damage, especially if I split the class into weapon-use and spellcasting.

Grip of truth: first thought: is this necessary? Both Protection from Chaos and Zone of Truth are on the spell list.
Yes it is necessary, because they are prepared spellcasters, and this is something they should always have at the ready for flavor purposes.

Example:
If a random foe out of a group of mooks unexpectedly throws down his sword and begs for mercy (an honorable surrender), then tells you the secret password that disarms the magical trap down the passageway, you can grab him, and tell him to repeat that, because if he is being truthful, he may have just bought himself a good deal of leniency at his trial, but if not... well, you WILL get that password out of him (see "torture"), or the fact that actually there IS no trap, and no excuses about how the boss put a Charm spell on him (note that this effect does not allow a save, and I suspect Protection from Chaos does).


Also:

Protection from Chaos gives three types of benefits, one of them being numberical, another something to do with not being able to be touched by summoned creatures I think, and the last being the anti-mind-control stuff... this only provides the last benefits.
Zone of Truth (or more like Discern Lies) surpasses Sense Motive like Knock surpasses Open Lock, so there is still room for both.



Mental Stability: I suggest rolling it into divine grace. Bonus against various insanity-like effects.
It is actually so critical to the classes flavor that I think it should have its own heading to draw more attention to it. Unfortunately, the reason why it is is bound up in the alignment debate both of us are trying to avoid getting mired in.

A bonus again insanity-like effects COULD be good, but the phrasing should definitely emphasize the current fluff aspect, such as by having the last sentence be "in addition to these longer-term effects this also means that 1/day a Paladin of the Code can, before rolling saving throw or spell resistance against an <insanity> effect gain a +10 bonus to their saving throw and SR (if they have SR).


No Escape for Cowards: beautiful and doesn't need much changing.
Glad to hear I got something exactly right!


Bonus feats: why? This class has a ton of features. Just to avoid dead levels? If that's the problem, scale something else.
Options, as I said, especially build options, rather than "What spells do I prepare today?".



Zone of Ultimate truth: I'd say this is a feature that deserves to be staggered out over the class levels. Again, however, I'm wondering if it's needed. This is a full caster class. It has all those spells on its list.
Eh, I tried to make a capstone... and this is faster and actually more effective (it automatically spams certain effects for example).

We may need to tweak it, or figure out something else.



Favoured Enemy of the Code would be similar to a ranger's favoured enemy, yes?
Yes.

How about changing that to something a bit more unique here. There's the Bloodhound (I think?) class in one of the completes, I'm tempted to say Adventurer, now that I'm away from book. It specializes in bringing down a single creature its sworn to catch. Something similar might work here. You swear to catch a single creature and gain bonuses to do so.
Eh... not what I was thinking of, and actually a bit off flavor. I was really thinking more along the lines of "Goblins tend to be habitual violators of the code that keeps violent conflict a little more humane and civilized. As a champion of the code I have dedicated myself to learning their ways so I may focus my efforts on them more effectively."

These guys, aren't about capturing individuals, they are about capturing EVERYONE, to give them a chance to reform, show the public the truth, and/or give information on their comrades if violations of The Code are involved"... which actually makes me think that maybe a few of the divination spells could be dropped if they are much more useful for looking for individuals rather than members of a group.



The Spell List: With this many class features, especially if you want to keep those that produce effects that are themselves similar ot spells, I'd go over this list with a hedge trimmer. Cut by half, at least, it needs more focus.


Just on level 1...
Buff spells: I'm torn on those. I'll probably leave them in, but fewer of them.
Actually, anything marked with a double astrisk would be the first ones I would drop. Those are "for keeping witnesses alive"... with witness either meaning "last survivor of the massacre or only enemy who surrendered and knows anything about the larger operation" OR "guy we are taking with us to bear witness to his people about what is going on in the field".

Debuffs: what the class is about.
The stuff that invokes the Oath of Capture? Yeah.


Utility: where it probably needs to lose the most.
I don't know... I think that adds to their "None can escape" thing. Everything from the divinations to the unwilling revivification.


Should probably go: cause fear (it makes the target run away, and you have several features to prevent that),
Oops! I thought it just made them Shaken at worse... actually that is at best.

comprehend languages (I'm not seeing it),
That was selected to facilitate dealing with prisoners mostly. Maybe they should ONLY get Tongues? Or give them the monk's "Tongue of the Sun and the Moon"?


In general:
Does too much. Really.
Well, I think we are making some progress towards seeing what to cut.

First of all, it has a ton of spells.


Then it has class features that mainly work with things that aren't spells:
I don't actually see that as a bad thing per se. Options for how to accomplish a given task seem like good things to have to make it more interesting to actually play the class.

you can't apply poison to spells or make them nonlethal (though you don't seem to have any damage spells).
I have a FEW damaging spells, but they already are tweaked to deal nonlethal damage I think.


I can see what you want to do with this class. The problem is, it is very unfocused. You should probably start by deciding this: is this a self-buffing melee class, like a Paladin,
They aren't supposed to buff themselves (or their party members) very much. Most of their buff spells either protect their minds (so the speak of Truth can't be made to lie and etc) or are designed for "keep the witness alive" and thus CAN'T be cast on themselves or fellow PCs.

They also get some curative stuff (including Remove Curse etc in here as well as Cure Light Wounds), but .

or a spellcaster focused on disabling enemies?
Weapons or spellcasting, whichever they feel like at the moment. Or, weapons for small fry, spells for the BBEG or masses of small fry.

Hmmm... that actually gives me an idea... maybe they should get separate spell slots for their capturing, which don't have a level associated with them(or, in other words, are always for the highest spell level they can actually cast), and are spontaneous, BUT are Wisdom Mod per day TOTAL. That could help make things more of a resource management thing, rather than just matching the spell level to the CR of the target(s).

I'd say go for one, but not both. Depending on which, I'd start dropping things.
I started with the weapon stuff... I was going to give them some SLA's to help them with that, and then it sorta went beyond that. I figured they had enough limits on things that it wasn't actually a big deal.

I could see splitting it as I said, but I am even a bit nervous about that. I'll probably go ahead and take a stab at the "weapons" side of things since you have revived my energy on this subject a bit... well, assuming that lasts.

Eldan
2013-07-22, 12:47 PM
The problem is not, I think, complexity. The problem is that I think that classes should have a certain focus to them, that one class shouldn't be able to do too many things well.

Now, yes, I can write this class entirely. But, well, I don't want to disappoint you, so the idea was to get a bit of a better feel of what you want it to do.

Features every level are indeed a good thing. But I'd also say that on a casting-heavy class, a new level of spells, at least, is a feature all on its own, even if prestige classes seemed to forget that really quickly. I'll try to think of some choices to make, then.

Spells:
How about,. instead of giving them specific "Keep the Witness alive" effects, extending No Escape for Cowards considerably? In addition to not having a chance to resist spells, the target can also be kept alive with no food or water for a certain amount of days, until they are brought to trial.



So, the general plan for this class I see right now:

I see it as mainly a spellcaster that's focused on finding and capturing people. Weapons and poisons are probably secondary to that.

Slightly condense the spell list a bit, concentrating mainly on spells that weaken a target or those that help find the target.

Separate from that, extend No Escape for Cowards so that it can keep a prisoner alive. Maybe add ways to make the prisoner talk, too.

Grip of truth, if you want it, could be made into more of a feature as well. I think it could work very well as an entire interrogation effect: a fear effect that forces enemies to talk, a divination effect that reveals lies, etc.


As for having the right spells available: the beguiler does that. It is a caster with a limited list, covering illusions and enchantments and very few buff spells. But it has all its spells available at all times and casts them spontaneously. More than any sorcerer knows, just from a limited scope of possible effects. That could work here, too. Spontaneous casting could eliminate the need for Grip of Truth and its companions, effects that are replicated by specific spells.

DracoDei
2013-07-22, 01:28 PM
We should probably clarify what "Oath of Capture" means a bit more, and then discuss how big a drawback it counts as. This would help with balancing the abilities that invoke it.


The problem is not, I think, complexity..
Oh, VERY good to know!

The problem is that I think that classes should have a certain focus to them, that one class shouldn't be able to do too many things well.
From my perspective, they didn't have lot of different things, they had several options for the same thing.

I suppose that "take prisoners" is a unified theme fluff-wise, but BFC and weapon use are two different things as far as the standard tactical division of labor. That may be where the difference of opinion sprouts from.


Now, yes, I can write this class entirely. But, well, I don't want to disappoint you, so the idea was to get a bit of a better feel of what you want it to do..
That is good, let's keep up the communication.

And the closer to my original vision we can come the happier I will be, but I was mostly trying to not look a gift horse in the mouth.



Features every level are indeed a good thing. But I'd also say that on a casting-heavy class, a new level of spells, at least, is a feature all on its own,.
Yeah, I tried to at least put the weaker stuff on those levels. At lower levels my assumption was that they would have the Wisdom score to get the bonus spells to activate the "0 spells of this level but you get your bonus spells", and at higher levels they won't.

The other thing I was probably thinking was that different builds would emphasize the spellcasting versus the weapon-use. Thus the possibility of making them buy full access to their spellcasting with feats.

Sidenote: Note that one thing the paladin tends to be that I specifically DON'T want this guy to be is limited to melee weapons over projectile weapons. If ranged is weaker than melee then that is outside the scope of this class to fix, but it should have the same ratio of effectiveness between range and melee as a fighter and/or ranger.

even if prestige classes seemed to forget that really quickly. I'll try to think of some choices to make, then..
Ok.



Spells:
How about,. instead of giving them specific "Keep the Witness alive" effects, extending No Escape for Cowards considerably? In addition to not having a chance to resist spells, the target can also be kept alive with no food or water for a certain amount of days, until they are brought to trial..
Food and water are fine things to consider, but I was more thinking of keeping the badguys from killing or suborning them... defensive buffs in other words. I suppose that "bodyguard" abilities to intercept attacks (including AoEs), could substitute with equal or better flavor.

The important thing is that they should be the NPC's bodyguard, not the party wizards, which is why I THINK I included a note about those spells only working on prisoners (clarification: Must at least be disarmed in most cases), or NPCs (that 4th level expert who was the lone survivor of the massacre of the refugee train when the party is 6th level).

Alternatively, they could have a package of buffs they can drop on someone and forget about it, but with the aforementioned limitations. Something limited by how many targets it can be effecting at any given time and range, but with no per-day limitations. This is probably a kludgy idea both for ease of play and roleplay value, but it may have its advantages (less to think about in combat, fewer of the drawbacks of "escort mission"?)


So, the general plan for this class I see right now:

I see it as mainly a spellcaster that's focused on finding and capturing people. Weapons and poisons are probably secondary to that..
I would consider the idea that the weapons and poisons might be more important at lower levels, and the spells at higher ones. I only mention this option because I THINK it is the way things currently stand.



Slightly condense the spell list a bit, concentrating mainly on spells that weaken a target or those that help find the target..
Sounds good to me.



Separate from that, extend No Escape for Cowards so that it can keep a prisoner alive..
Well, a lot of the time the witness will be willing...

Oh, wait... you just don't want them to be able to starve themselves to death. That is a good idea.

Maybe add ways to make the prisoner talk, too..
That would be why the Enchantments, Mind Fog, Bestow Curse, Detect Thoughts etc are on the spell list...



Grip of truth, if you want it, could be made into more of a feature as well. I think it could work very well as an entire interrogation effect: a fear effect that forces enemies to talk, a divination effect that reveals lies, etc..
Sounds interesting... tell me more.

I especially like the "force to talk" thing, since that could possibly allow the elimination of most of the Charm/Dominate spells.


As for having the right spells available: the beguiler does that. It is a caster with a limited list, covering illusions and enchantments and very few buff spells. But it has all its spells available at all times and casts them spontaneously. More than any sorcerer knows, just from a limited scope of possible effects. That could work here, too. Spontaneous casting could eliminate the need for Grip of Truth and its companions, effects that are replicated by specific spells.
I kinda like the way Grip of Truth works right now, at least for lower levels. Keeps doubt in the right places to me.

Definitely want to keep Undeath to Deathlessness(and its reverse) and the Unwilling Raise Dead/Resurrection/True Resurrection spells. Although the second category could be turned into a special ability that lets them modify the casting of those spells (perhaps by others if you want them off the list).

Sidenote: Maybe non-evil guys should get a kicker (from first level) where they can take a -X to sense motive, in order to never get a false "he's lying" on a natural 1. Of course, that is probably more of a house rule. Evil would get further bonuses to Intimidate to balance.

Eldan
2013-07-22, 02:03 PM
Keeping prisoners alive... a sanctuary effect, that eventually turns into something like temporal stasis? Locking them away on a demiplane until you can judge them?

As for the grip of truth: I don't see this class as charming or subtle in their methods, would I be right in that? (At least by default). Because then, charm effects could go the way of the dodo. Instead...


Interrogator's grip (Ex): The [class name] is highly effective at interrogating targets. To establish an Interrogator's grip, the [x] must be able to both grip a target and look in its eyes. If target is not helpless, they can attempt a grapple check to shake off the grip.
While gripping a target, the interrogator gains an insight bonus equal to their class level to sense motive checks made to tell if the target is lying.
Furthermore, once per round as a standard action, they can make an intimdate check opposed by the target's will save to force them to answer a single question, whether they want to or not. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

DracoDei
2013-07-22, 03:38 PM
Keeping prisoners alive... a sanctuary effect, that eventually turns into something like temporal stasis? Locking them away on a demiplane until you can judge them?
Prisoners and/or witnesses. Two slightly separate things.

As for the grip of truth: I don't see this class as charming or subtle in their methods, would I be right in that? (At least by default). Because then, charm effects could go the way of the dodo. Instead...
Err... well, they are supposed to have the option to be subtle at the least (but that could go away or be turned into one or more feats), and they are supposed to have the option to be GENTLE, especially when they aren't already sure of the person's guilt.

Diplomacy is DEFINITELY an "in-character" skill for them the way I see them(how else to tearfully plead with the masses against repeating the crime of the prisoner on display?), and Gather Information is close behind.

...I really need to bite the bullet and give you the little story that is in my head that is what I base a lot of how I see the class around... maybe later today.

DracoDei
2013-07-24, 01:13 AM
Partially finished story I don't want lost to another computer crash.

Scene: An encampment of elves, dwarves, and halflings in the middle of a city of goblins defeated a few months ago.

Speaker: A shell-shocked male halfling, fit but extremely plump.

I am a cler... excuse me. I only recently learned that "cleric" means something much more specific out here than it does in my hometown.

Let me start over.

I am a SERVANT of Yondalla. I can't cure wounds or make corpses do as they should and lay down and die. What I can do is conjure food. Half an hour of focusing Yondalla's gift to me to get something worth eating.

Out here though? 5 minutes makes something that will keep body and soul together another day, and I can do it all day long.

I heard goblins were starving to death out here. I wouldn't wish that fate on anybody. I loves me some good eats, and I can't imagine a more horrible death... well *shudders* that mighta changed today, I'll have to think on that a spell. Anyways, its no surprise I didn't end up with the normal clerical set of gifts.

I'm no battle-champion, that's for sure. Came here inside an armored wagon the army provided to us charitable types.

There was two others in the wagon with me.

One was a cleric of Allurehn... yeah, yeah, the goddess of hearth, marriage, children, and the activities that allow the second to lead to the third... you get close living in such cramped quarters. Close enough she felt it necessary to say that while love-transformation spells exist, they take a serious amount of power, and so there wasn't likely to be anything between us what with her being human and me a halfling. I don't even know if my mind was going in that direction. Maybe she knew my own heart better than me, maybe she was just being careful.

Anyway... the other one... she was just a serving girl, name of Beth.
*quiet, tearless sobs follow*
Sorry... well... I wouldn't be talking with you if it didn't hurt. She... she worked for a big fancy noble, laying out the dishes at his table. Figured she might maybe have the skills to wield a ladle better than the next person. Her lord gave her leave to go, seeing as half his armsmen were already with the army he could get by with wuh-wuh-one less.

Well, we get to the aid center. They put me to work immediately. Just one rule for me "Give the food to the servers." the guy giving the order looked real serious about it. I just figured that somebody who hadn't eaten in three days might try to wrangle extra helpings... I even heard tell one time years ago that if a body has been without vittles for too long, and then gets all they like, it can burst their stomach or some such... kill 'em dead, just when life seems in sight. Ironic, but better than dyin' hungry say's I. Not that I ever had to see anything close to that... and close is all I have seen here.

Anyways, turns out that there were at least two other reasons.

The second was that they wanted the goblins to show a bit of gratitude for the charity we were showing them. Keep 'em from thinking it was their right. Which seems fair enough to me, if only to make sure they didn't cut any corners planting for the NEXT year. So they had them kneel when they got to the front of the line. No kneeling, no food, and stop holding up the line.

As for that cleric of Allurehn? She mostly wandered around watchin' everything. Occasionally she'd ask questions of the locals in their own tongue. Made notes in a book... and I think a different book when she filled that one up. I asked her about it, and she said something about "To find the fish, one must avoid throwing pebbles in the pond.". I didn't get what she meant, so she explained in simple language that she was trying to learn something, and telling me WHAT would confuse things to where she couldn't be as sure about what she saw and heard.

Too bad that cleric was on the other side of the camp when it happened.

This one lady goblin tries to get TWO bowls of the glop I was having to put out from shear necessity. Beth fills one bowl and then shakes her head to the other, like she is supposed to do. Lady Goblin starts yellin' and screamin' at Beth. Beth don't speak Goblin, and so she just shrugs and shakes her head. Lady Goblin shoves her way back a few places in line and starts screamin' at this other goblin. The other goblin just blows her off, and when like it isn't his problem.

Well, the lady goblin tries to storm out of camp with her one bowl of glop, and the guard at the exit taps her on the wrist with the butt of his spear neat as you please. Lady goblin turns to him with murder in her eyes, and so he shows her the pointy end of his spear, trying to keep her from getting too close. Lady goblin mutters something, and gestures to the spilled glop, but the guard's goblin isn't so hot, and she was too quiet and... well, she ends up walking away sobbing.

Later on the guard was pretty broken up about it. Of course, we all told him that he was following perfectly reasonable rules. Can't risk them getting silly ideas about who their benefactors are... lotta food shipped from human and elven lands in the past has been distributed in the name of a local warlord. That's just no good. Worse yet would be if she woulda been taking it to some sorta resistance fighter. So... "No taking food outside the serving area".

Well... long story short, her sick child, weened not a month ago, died that night. I blame that other goblin for not being willing to help out by translatin'.

And then... well this goblin kid, maybe about their equivalent of... well you are a human, so I'll say about '12 in human years'. Anyway... he distracts one of the guards while an adult goblin drives a blade into Beth's heart.

They caught them both... both father and son, 'cept we didn't know that yet. Tied 'em up proper, gagged 'em, and laid them on one of the tables. One of the guards who did speak goblin says something to 'em. And the dad just starts thrashing around something awful. So the guard holds 'em down and says something really serious.

Then one of the other guards comes over with that Cleric. And she pulls out this little tiny knife. Runs a wet rag across the father's head for some strange reason. She goes in with the knife, and he's fightin' and squirmin', with this big bruiser most layin' on top of him, and she nearly takes out his eye... turns out that was probably his intention, maybe to try to get that knife into his brain. But all SHE wants is to get a bit of blood on this knife. Which she does, although I think it mighta been from his shoulder.

So she casts this spell, and she looks at the kid laying there tied up too and says "That's his son. I'll go see if I can put together their nine closest, or 18 in this case."

So she trots off with a few guards to protect her, and that was when I decided there were goblins starvin' and I should get back to work.

Few hours later, I start hearing screamin'. I inch over to have a look, and I see this new guy there, and bits of his equipment was shiny enough I figured he had a good supply of magic set into it. And he's standing over the adult, dripping hot tallow off a candle onto the goblin's back as he still lays on the table. ((Later reference Charm Person having already been tried by this point.))

So he puts down the candle and leans in close, and the dad stops screamin'. And he says something in real quiet, and the goblin starts to say something back and this new guy grabs him around the throat and squeezes a bit. So the goblin manages to get out something but only real quiet.

I'm standin' there shocked, cause I KNOW that ain't how your supposed to treat an enemy who is tied up... well, that was what I thought at the time. Come to find out, the accords that set the rules of battle and such don't EXACTLY say that.

So he gags the father and goes up to the kid with the candle. The kid starts screaming his head off. Screaming words mind you... and the guy straightens the candle back up so it won't drip on the kid after all. They talk back and forth a bit in goblin, and meanwhile I've made my way over to the lady cleric. I ask her if she is going to stop this, and she tells me "Of course, not. I'll explain later, I want to see this."

Well, I'm still feelin' kinda bold, so I ask her
((Cleric of Allurehn mentions bit about Love Of Family being a good thing, but taken in the wrong direction by goblins.))


Note: Even if "One dose lasts for three strikes" thing is implimented, destroyable projectiles should still only require 1/3 of a dose for full effects. This is obvious in retrospect.