is this the right text for necrotic spellbomb?

[Darth Stabber]

Necrotic Skull Bomb

Necromancy Level: Cleric 5, Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5,
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You imbue a humanoid skull with negative energy and hurl it. The skull detonates on impact, releasing the negative energy contained within. All creatures in the spell's area, except for undead, gain 1d4 negative levels (see Energy Drain, page 308 of the Monster Manual, for details about negative levels). Assuming a creature survives the effect of the spell, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). Usually, negative levels have a chance of draining a creature's levels, but the negative levels from necrotic skull bomb don't last long enough to do so. An undead creature in the spell's area gains 1d4×5 temporary hit points for 1 hour. Material Component: A humanoid skull.

So I already though necrotic spell bomb was a pretty decent spell, aoe enervation. With a fort instead of attack roll. I have recommended to players, and used it on one of my dread necromancers (advanced learning), though I prefer animate dread warrior for most circumstances. Then today I see the cast time (from a website, not from champions of ruin, since I don't own it), SWIFT ACTION!!! ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!

This seems too good to be true, I am assuming that the website I copied this from has it wrong, but if not that is seriously good, all the reasons I already liked it, and it's automatically quickened. Can any one check the veracity on this?

[TaiLiu]

Yes, it is indeed a Swift Action. The website is correct.

[Darth Stabber]

Yes, it is indeed a Swift Action. The website is correct.

That is insane!

[TaiLiu]

That is insane!
I suppose. Death Ward pretty much negates it, though.

[Lateral]

Eh, it's Fort-negates. The swift action is kind of silly, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it.

[Darth Stabber]

Eh, it's Fort-negates. The swift action is kind of silly, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it.

I've been happy with it's performance as a standard action spell, it's not the most poweful spell out there, but it's a good mass debuff. As a swift action you could follow it up with something else to take advantage of the now weakened targets. Against single targets enervation is probably a better choice, but mass save or suck it's worth putting in your spellbook, if not an every day spell. Just think of it as a slightly weakened, quickened enervation for only 1 level increase, not a bad deal. And most of the metamagic shenanigans that work for enervation work on it too.

[CyberThread]

Three things to consider


You need to have a skull in your hand, which is action spent on doing something to get that skull in your hand


The way I read the spell, it CHARGES the skull, you must still spend an attack action to throw said item. I do not read it as the spell forcing you to throw it or making it throw the skull by magical force, it says that YOU hurl it.


A human skull has a large gap where the jaw and the innards would be, solvent glue something inside it, and you could throw another bomb at the same time like alchemist fire or something more potent like air based poison or spell that activates when the container gets broken.

[Darth Stabber]

Three things to consider


You need to have a skull in your hand, which is action spent on doing something to get that skull in your hand


The way I read the spell, it CHARGES the skull, you must still spend an attack action to throw said item. I do not read it as the spell forcing you to throw it or making it throw the skull by magical force, it says that YOU hurl it.


A human skull has a large gap where the jaw and the innards would be, solvent glue something inside it, and you could throw another bomb at the same time like alchemist fire or something more potent like air based poison or spell that activates when the container gets broken.

By RAW hurling it is part of the action, as is pulling out needed components.

[Eldest]

Three things to consider


You need to have a skull in your hand, which is action spent on doing something to get that skull in your hand.

Nope, getting any material component out of one of those bags is part of the action to cast the spell unless you, as the GM, make a house rule to change it. Personally, I'm glad that is the case, because if you could cast the spell and then hold onto the skull you could make a bomb bag full of those charged skulls and then throw that for Xd4 negative levels.



The way I read the spell, it CHARGES the skull, you must still spend an attack action to throw said item. I do not read it as the spell forcing you to throw it or making it throw the skull by magical force, it says that YOU hurl it.


You imbue a humanoid skull with negative energy and hurl it.

Pretty explicitly says you throw it too.

[CyberThread]

<-< so why int he world is getting a skull out of your bag a free action but drawing your weapon is not

[Darth Stabber]

<-< so why int he world is getting a skull out of your bag a free action but drawing your weapon is not

It's MAGIC!!!!!

In all seriousness, it's not a free action, it's part of a swift action.

[The Viscount]

<-< so why int he world is getting a skull out of your bag a free action but drawing your weapon is not

Well, it is sort of free if you make it part of a move action. As for why, because in an attempt to make all-encompassing rules, WotC ended up making things harder for martial characters.

[Khatoblepas]

<-< so why int he world is getting a skull out of your bag a free action but drawing your weapon is not

A better question is: Where is a wizard getting all of these humanoid skulls? He has a NI amount of them in his spell component pouch. Are they tiny replica skulls?

[Rebel7284]

A better question is: Where is a wizard getting all of these humanoid skulls? He has a NI amount of them in his spell component pouch. Are they tiny replica skulls?

"Hey party, I need some spell components, let's go murder a halfling village." :smallamused:

[CyberThread]

They are so great, it is like fun sized human skulls


They are so awesome, travel sized skulls

Come for the shire beer, leave with the organs


Pint Size is the Right size

[The Viscount]

A better question is: Where is a wizard getting all of these humanoid skulls? He has a NI amount of them in his spell component pouch. Are they tiny replica skulls?

If we start questioning the limitless skulls, we have to question the limitless severed hands of good aligned humanoid clerics.

[Darth Stabber]

If we start questioning the limitless skulls, we have to question the limitless severed hands of good aligned humanoid clerics.

Not to mention umbilical cords of stillborn children.

Given the sheer amount and kind of stuff in a spell component pouch, I think it's best not to dwell on it. At my table I don't bother tracking it, and explicitly give spont casters free eschew material components (and prepared casters effectively get it to, because no one wants to track that). The lazyness extends to the point where I pretty much allow the gold itself stand in for the expensive components that you would need to spend it on.

[Alex12]

I just sort of assume that a spell component pouch is actually a very slightly magical item that basically grants you eschew materials as long as you can access it.

[TuggyNE]

I just sort of assume that a spell component pouch is actually a very slightly magical item that basically grants you eschew materials as long as you can access it.

From my perspective, SCPs are the most horrifically overpowered/underpriced major artifacts you can acquire, since they literally allow you to grab other artifacts at will.

[Spuddles]

From my perspective, SCPs are the most horrifically overpowered/underpriced major artifacts you can acquire, since they literally allow you to grab other artifacts at will.

If priceless and worthless mean the same thing, then yes (http://www.ep-webeditors.eu/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Homer+Simpson1.jpg).

[Phelix-Mu]

They thoroughly borked material components in 3e. You either make it a thing that takes effort and role play, or you don't have it be a thing/or only a fluff thing. The spell component pouch is not a solution, but a bag that mysteriously exists to help wizards defy RAW with RAW.

Back to the matter at hand, the most excellent thing about swift action spells like this is that they allow a caster to figure out who is sporting immunity/resistance to said category of spells before the first round of casting is up. Now aware of who has death ward and who doesn't, the caster can use the remainder of the caster's action to maximum effectiveness, selecting a spell or effect that will work.

And, of course, who can argue with AoE debuffs.:smallsmile:

Frankly, this is a nice spell to use on a party, especially for a guerrilla warfare-type caster. Pop out of hiding/invisibility while under disguise/alter self, toss skullbomb, check for debuff, standard action teleport away. Follow up with scrying on the party to see if they unload a death ward, in which case wait or prepare non-necro spells/fall back to scrolls.

[Karnith]

If priceless and worthless mean the same thing, then yes (http://www.ep-webeditors.eu/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Homer+Simpson1.jpg).
Luckily (?), spell component pouches do not refer to either priceless objects or worthless objects in defining what they do and do not contain. They contain any material component or focus needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost (or divine focuses, or focuses that won't fit into a pouch). Both worthless items and priceless items fall under that definition, so by RAW you get both. Yes, I know that you know this. I am a pedant.

[Phelix-Mu]

Luckily (?), spell component pouches do not refer to either priceless objects or worthless objects in defining what they do and do not contain. They contain any material component or focus needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost (or divine focuses, or focuses that won't fit into a pouch). Both worthless items and priceless items fall under that definition. Yes, I know that you know this. I am a pedant.

I've argued that "Cost" and "Value" are different terms by RAW, but the fact is that sometimes they are used in less than distinct fashions. That the game has a thing known as Appraise, yet items without a cost entry are assumed to be without value seems a fabulous stretch of the normal English usage of these terms.

But, hey, that's why defined game terms are a thing, since English usage can reach farther than Stretch Armstrong, and is more flexible than the latest victim of a boneyard. By RAW, exploit away!

And now back to your regularly-scheduled OP topic!:smallcool:

[Karnith]

[Y]et items without a cost entry are assumed to be without valueThat isn't what I'm saying at all, actually. Spell component pouches contain anything that doesn't have a specific cost. Per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm)

A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.(Emphasis mine)

The argument isn't that artifacts are worthless/valueless, it's that they don't have a specific cost, because artifacts are never (to the best of my knowledge) priced.

On-topic, I never noticed that Necrotic Spellbomb had a swift-action casting time, but I'm not sure that it's good enough anyway. Fort negates on this thing is really a downer.

[Phelix-Mu]

That isn't what I'm saying at all, actually. Spell component pouches contain anything that doesn't have a specific cost. Per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm)
(Emphasis mine)

The argument isn't that artifacts are worthless/valueless, it's that they don't have a specific cost, because artifacts are never (to the best of my knowledge) priced.

I wasn't particularly accusing you of any misinterpretation, merely taking umbrage with the contradictory usage of the language that the game uses, and the illogical conclusions that we can draw from the RAW.

To wit:
1.) Artifacts have no listed cost.

2.) The game often uses cost and value, even price, quite loosely.

3.) Using Appraise on an artifact should not turn up the fact that it is worthless, or that it has no cost entry in the DMG/wherever. The fact is that they are very valuable items (some npc in the game will pay for one, regardless of what the DMG says, since the DMG is only accounting for list price), and Appraise would reveal this. Artifacts aren't for sale by default, but they certainly could be sold once acquired.

4.) Appraise reveals that an artifact has value, yet the RAW says the artifact has no cost. Price just adds to the confusion.

Which leaves us with the poorly made distinction between cost and value. The SCP certainly does as it says, but what it says flies in the face of its intent.

Again, if they wanted to eliminate the hubbub and fuss of common material components, they should have eliminated them.

[Spuddles]

The fort save is a bummer, but it's AoE and lacks the [Evil] tag. Definitely going to pick this up on my sorcerer as a 5th level spell. Swift actions just that good.

[CyberThread]

I can just see a bunch of animate object skulls, signing along to a evil villian, as he sings and dances, while the party is busy fighitng is minions. HE touches a skull and it zooms off colliding against some of the party, call them cursed fireworks.

[Spuddles]

It's also an extremely mediocre way for giving your minions 1d4x5 temp HP.

[Teron]

From my perspective, SCPs are the most horrifically overpowered/underpriced major artifacts you can acquire, since they literally allow you to grab other artifacts at will.
Those initials are amusingly fitting for a bag that contains an infinite number of humanoid body parts, unique magical relics and live spiders.

[lsfreak]

Three things to consider


For the record, I have a feeling they intended the spell to be used like you describe. As always, WotC's writers seem to lack and understanding of the rules, though.


The fort save is a bummer, but it's AoE and lacks the [Evil] tag.
Also for the record, most negative level spells lack the [Evil] tag. Enervation, energy drain, necrotic skull bomb, Kyrastin's malevolent tentacles, and Fel Draining cover most of the major ways of dealing them out, none with [Evil].

[Spuddles]

Those initials are amusingly fitting for a bag that contains an infinite number of humanoid body parts, unique magical relics and live spiders.

...similar sentiment here.

[TuggyNE]

Those initials are amusingly fitting for a bag that contains an infinite number of humanoid body parts, unique magical relics and live spiders.

I know, right? I didn't try to mash that up, but when I saw what I'd typed I figured I'd leave in the reference.