OOTS #903 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[DDRNick]

Good thing they cast Protection from Daylight earlier.

[Goosefeather]

I sense this is about to get messy...

Also, I totally read Nale's "GREENHILT!" in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c) voice.

[prpl]

I want to know what V is thining? Can't V think out loud with a gag?

Also comics coming so fast, every time I'm in here there's a new comic. Good work and I'm glad that the Giant is feeling better!

[thatSeniorGuy]

Thanks Giant, great dialogue all around!

[hajo]

Finally, we get the names of the 3 directors !


Must be a lucky day - new OOTS-comic, and still less than 10 pages of comments when I come in :smallbiggrin:

[MoonCat]

Oh, Nale. Time to have a breakdown and swear revenge on Greenhilt's smartiness?

[Chance Gardener]

Actually I think we learned their names quite a while back.

Excellent strips Giant.
Much appreciated.

[Kish]

I want to know what V is thining? Can't V think out loud with a gag?
Uh. What? That question seems to answer itself. "Can't Vaarsuvius keep talking with a gag? Can't Vaarsuvius walk away while tied up? Can't Vaarsuvius fly without magic or wings?" Do you mean a thought bubble?

[Nimrod's Son]

Finally, we get the names of the 3 directors !
:smallconfused: We've had them since they first appeared to Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html).

[MoonCat]

Finally, we get the names of the 3 directors !


Must be a lucky day - new OOTS-comic, and still less than 10 pages of comments when I come in :smallbiggrin:


We've had them since the first time they appeared to V. :smallconfused:

[tadkins]

Finally, we get the names of the 3 directors !


Must be a lucky day - new OOTS-comic, and still less than 10 pages of comments when I come in :smallbiggrin:


Got 'em a while ago, here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html)

Evil can be scary when it manages to work together. xD

[Rui]

Nale's face is awesome.

[Ranzear]

They gave their names at their introduction to V.

[MoonCat]

:smallconfused: We've had them since their very first appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html).

Not counting the appearance with Sabine beforehand.

[Nimrod's Son]

Not counting the appearance with Sabine beforehand.
Jeez, give me chance to edit it, wouldya? :smalltongue:

[Menas]

So what is the LG going to do now they they know Roy and co. are in the pit and destroyed the gate, and have their hands full fighting an elemental?

This might help give us an idea:


I sense this is about to get messy...

Also, I totally read Nale's "GREENHILT!" in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c) voice.

(nice touch)

[Halleflux]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-- no wait, I mean, GREENHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILT!!

[Menas]

Uh. What? That question seems to answer itself. "Can't Vaarsuvius keep talking with a gag? Can't Vaarsuvius walk away while tied up? Can't Vaarsuvius fly without magic or wings?" Do you mean a thought bubble?

I'm guessing they meant thought bubbles.

[Sir Brandon]

Thank you, giant!

[Chirurgie]

another great comic, thanks! My earliest read of a comic yet, thanks to the magic of Twitter updates ;)

[CoffeeIncluded]

:sabine: "Thanks elf, you're alright!" Haha, I loved the last panel. Though Hm, Sabine, it might be in your best self-interest to figure out what's going on with V, if only for Nale's sake.

[pwning doodes]

Durkon... Hahahahaha! Hes so clueless!

[otakuryoga]

how dare the imp not pass on her hugs and kisses...

[LuisDantas]

Wow. First page? I don't believe it.

Durkon seems to be quite the puppet right now. He should have realized what Marlack would answer all of his own, if his mind were working at even a third of its true capacity.

It is nice that the IFCC is not underestimating the silly risks of explaining their whole plan.

[Killer Angel]

I'm wondering why the fiends aren't releasing V...

[The Pilgrim]

By the anger of the IFCC, looks like V is hitting home.

I said some strips ago that the IFCC aim was to destroy the gates and unmade the planet in order to win credit before their superiors. The reaction of the IFCC to V's ramblings seems to indicate that at least the first part of my speculation points to the right direction.

[Phybender]

Another fine strip. Thanks!

I love it when new strips appear just the moment before I get too tired of checking and forget about it, to come back checking a month or so later to read 3 or 4 at once.

So, is this going to turn into a battle right after a battle? Rift is no option, LG is damaged by the blast, OotS is damaged by the elemental...

edit: I mean "Roy is damaged by the elemental, Belkar is low on hp due to the drainage, V has low hp and has "V's" soul on another plane, no Durkon any more, Elan is fine so far and our beloved rogue hasn't suffered much till now. They look like they couldn't handle another battle.

[nohamotyo]

:sabine: When they first sent us to Tarquin's--

Whatever Sabine was about to say before Qarr called her may be germane to understanding the directors' plot. Is it safe to assume that by "us" she means her and Qarr?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Kind of an Old School cell phone. You would think Sabine would have something a bit more modern and stylish... :smallwink:

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

Still no Tarquin... hmm. A shame Nale didn't die - but maybe by the end of this book.

Still, a decent explanation strip. It leaves to the imagination that Malack and Durkin are watching the OOTS fight... at least that's what occurred to me.

I think Malack is almost certainly a curious and intelligent enough creature that he will go investigate the gate. If it means waiting around for the OOTS to leave, that's fine. Tarquin will too, no doubt.

[Bulldog Psion]

Odd that Varsuuvius hasn't been released yet.

Sabine's definitely talking too much for her own good, too. :smalleek:

[Adventurer]

I didn't get the joke at the last panel. Why would Durkon think they have to go to another pyramid?


By the anger of the IFCC, looks like V is hitting home.
They seem annoyed, not angry, so it's very probable that they honestly just didn't want V and Blackwing to talk over their celebratory speech.

[Garwain]

A pawn in every team? Does that implies that besides the LG, other sides of the conflict are also infiltrated?

And nice update rate here. It almost feels like someone is rushing to get the book done so before taking a well deserved vacation.

[Jiggs]

Great comic!
Wonderful insight too!
So the fiends did know about the planet in the rift.
But we are not closer what their plans are, just a little bit smarter on how they operate.

[137beth]

So far I love all the Sabine and Qarr scenes:smallbiggrin:

[Phybender]

And nice update rate here. It almost feels like someone is rushing to get the book done so before taking a well deserved vacation.

lol that's fine with me :smallsmile:

[Nimrod's Son]

I didn't get the joke at the last panel. Why would Durkon think they have to go to another pyramid?
Because that's where the sign said the gate was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0894.html).

[The Giant]

Kind of an Old School cell phone. You would think Sabine would have something a bit more modern and stylish... :smallwink:

I guarantee you if I had drawn an iPhone, everyone would be saying, "What's that weird rounded rectangle she's holding?"

[gorocz]

I guarantee you if I had drawn an iPhone, everyone would be saying, "What's that weird rounded rectangle she's holding?"

She could've been talking into a bitten apple :smallbiggrin:

[CRtwenty]

Well it's nice to see the LG is still intact. For various levels of "nice".

[Mike Havran]

Well, Malack, now that Nale's usefulness is finally over, it's time for a drink...

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm wondering why the fiends aren't releasing V...


Odd that Varsuuvius hasn't been released yet.

That's because the twenty minutes aren't up yet. :smallwink:

[pendell]

Applause. The three fiends rock amazingly, even if they are dangerous villains.

And the Linear Guild survived. Strange. I've been wanting Nale to die horribly since the beginning of this book, yet I'm relieved and delighted to see him still breathing. Maybe because "being buried under a mountain" would be anti-climactic for his character. By the rules of drama, Elan has not yet earned his victory over Nale.

Also, vampire Durkon doesn't seem to be especially smart. I wonder if being in thrall shackles his intelligence as well as his will?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Crusher]

The plot thickens!

[Sutremaine]

I love Malack's somewhat weary 'no' in the last panel. I think he'd like to get Durkon's mind back as soon as possible now.

Also, another plot-important sentence cut off just before the revealing part? >.<

[Goosefeather]

I'm amazed there's such good mobile phone reception in Hell, being miles underground as it is. Presumably it's some kind of hotline :smallcool:

Apologies, that was terrible, I know!

[Zolthux]

Woohoo new comic!

[davidbofinger]

Kind of an Old School cell phone. You would think Sabine would have something a bit more modern and stylish... :smallwink:

Have we seen this gadget before? If not, I'm tempted to say it's something that only works in Hell. So maybe not a cell phone, more like a wireless phone handset. And if it belongs to the directors then a non-Sabine aesthetic is appropriate.

[Gift Jeraff]

So Sabine (and someone else?) were sent to Tarquin('s empires?) before she started dating Nale? And there are pawns on Team Evil? :roach:?

And confirmation that the OOTS knows of the Snarl's supposed soul destroying.

Now, Nale and/or Z, pleeease dispel Malack's Protection from Daylight.

[Gorky]

A pawn in every team? Does that implies that besides the LG, other sides of the conflict are also infiltrated?

And nice update rate here. It almost feels like someone is rushing to get the book done so before taking a well deserved vacation.

Rampant speculation as to who is the pawn in every team time!

I am most interested in who is the pawn on the OOTS? probably referring to V?

[Goosefeather]

Rampant speculation as to who is the pawn in every team time!

I am most interested in who is the pawn on the OOTS? probably referring to V?

No 'probably' about it, that's definitely referring to V.

I'm guessing their pawns in Team Evil are the roaches?

[Rendel Nep]

I sense this is about to get messy...

Also, I totally read Nale's "GREENHILT!" in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c) voice.

I thought it was more in this (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAwUImV8JY) voice.

[oppyu]

hehe, Nale.

Also, insane theory; The Crimson Mantle is an artifact created by the IFCC, and all this Dark One lore is a tool they've been using to manipulate the goblin population, thus making Redcloak the pawn on Team Evil.

[sam79]

Really like this. Another moment with V and Sabine, like their quiet bit of sisterly solidarity back in Azure City one time. Sort of, anyway.

Best joke in today's update? The title. Had me chuckling into my paperwork.

[Mike Havran]

Heh, nice detail that Blackwing is gagged as well.

[Torrasque]

Love the update rate recently <3

[gellerche]

I thought it was more in this (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAwUImV8JY) voice.

I dunno. Sort of lacks the outrage. I like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUWXjs2jPQI better.

[Sunken Valley]

Wonder who Sabine's us is

[DreadPirateDB]

I sense this is about to get messy...

Also, I totally read Nale's "GREENHILT!" in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c) voice.

I heard it in this voice...Mr. Spacely (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxAZbzRpC4Q)

So who was the pawn in the Order of the Scribble? Or who was the rogue agent, as it were?

[Coldwind]

Summoned monsters don't have a single scratch on them. How come?

[Gift Jeraff]

Summoned monsters don't have a single scratch on them. How come?

They can teleport at will, so they could have teleported far away and then back.

[TheBST]

Haven't the IFFC already explained what they want here? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) 'Unnecessary, destructive conflict'.

Of course they could have been lieing to Qarr, but turning the Quest for the Gates into a 9-side clusterfudge over the last one would accomplish that
easily. Between the Order, Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Redcloak, The Paladins and whoever's land the gate is on, whoever wins it's going to be a bloodbath if not a fullscale war.

[SaintRidley]

I find vampire Durkon just adorable.

[Tanklin]

third page... my best

good strip :)

[thamolas]

I'm amazed there's such good mobile phone reception in Hell, being miles underground as it is. Presumably it's some kind of hotline :smallcool:

Apologies, that was terrible, I know!

It is where cell phones come from.

[karkus]

I know I'm a horrible person for typing this...


...but isn't Sabine missing a perfectly good opportunity to feel the elf up?

I mean, seriously. One's an evil incarnation of illicit sex, the other's tied to a table, 2+2=...

...the last panel's joke had me laughing.

Well, V's encounter with the Fiends isn't over yet :smallwink:


Haven't the IFFC already explained what they want here? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) 'Unnecessary, destructive conflict'.

Yes, but that was to Qarr; not any protangonists.


They can teleport at will, so they could have teleported far away and then back.

Not while they're Called, though, right?


I'm amazed there's such good mobile phone reception in Hell, being miles underground as it is. Presumably it's some kind of hotline :smallcool:

Apologies, that was terrible, I know!

You could almost say that you're... going to hell for that pun.
YEAAAAAAH!!!
Sorry about the long post, you guys :smallredface: I'm just pumped up about these new comics coming out almost every day.

[Chaotic Queen]

I know I'm a horrible person for typing this...


...but isn't Sabine missing a perfectly good opportunity to feel the elf up?

I mean, seriously. One's an evil incarnation of illicit sex, the other's tied to a table, 2+2=...

...the last panel's joke had me laughing.

That's stereotyping. Elan doesn't always sing just because he's a bard. Roy doesn't bash in skulls at random just because he's a fighter.

Likewise, Sabine doesn't have to molest every person she sees just because she's a demon.

[luc258]

Rule of drama says that both explanations offered by V and the stealth dinosaur are wrong.
So they are (probably) not after the souls on that planet, if there are any.

[Leirus]

So the three directors are also manipulating Tarquin. In a quite roundabout way, too, because they are using Sabine to direct Nale so Tarquin does not suspect anything.

I think that when Sabine says "us" she means her and Nale.

Now V knows that, and Sabine knows about the planet...

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Sabine having an old-style phone makes sense. She's thousands of years old!

[Joe the Rat]

Kind of an Old School cell phone. You would think Sabine would have something a bit more modern and stylish... :smallwink:

Well duh, it's a medieval-fantasy setting. Of course the cell phone technology would be a bit archaic. :smallbiggrin:

[Goosefeather]

Haven't the IFFC already explained what they want here? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) 'Unnecessary, destructive conflict'.

Of course they could have been lieing to Qarr, but turning the Quest for the Gates into a 9-side clusterfudge over the last one would accomplish that
easily. Between the Order, Nale, Tarquin, Xykon, Redcloak, The Paladins and whoever's land the gate is on, whoever wins it's going to be a bloodbath if not a fullscale war.

Prequel book spoilers:
That would be the Dwarves, no? Well, Durkon has been prophesied to bring 'death and destruction' when he returns home, so a "9-side clusterfudge bloodbath/fullscale war" sounds about right, really.


Well duh, it's a medieval-fantasy setting. Of course the cell phone technology would be a bit archaic. :smallbiggrin:

It could be worse. They could have magic trains. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html)

[FolcoTook]

I guarantee you if I had drawn an iPhone, everyone would be saying, "What's that weird rounded rectangle she's holding?"
Besides, there have been enough patent lawsuits over that shape that it's probably best left alone. :smallwink:

[The Giant]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.

[oppyu]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.
This. So very much, this.

[littlebum2002]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.



Thanks. It gets kinda creepy when people start predicting what they want Sabine to do to V....
(Save it for the fanfiction sites!)



Anyway, what kind of minor-league bad guys don't elaborate on their evil plan when the good guy is tied up? Elan would be very disappointed. I wanted plot exposition!

[luc258]

I like that the IFCC does not explain their plans. The evil guy explaining his plans is so overused in stories.

[MReav]

I'm guessing V's going to try and take out Nero since he's supposedly the one that keeps them together.

Or expose Nero as using the other two.

[Leirus]

Thanks. It gets kinda creepy when people start predicting what they want Sabine to do to V....
(Save it for the fanfiction sites!)



Anyway, what kind of minor-league bad guys don't elaborate on their evil plan when the good guy is tied up? Elan would be very disappointed. I wanted plot exposition!

You know, at this point I doubt they are minor-league. Who is their pawn in Team Evil? Is the Dark One even real? Do the roaches, who have always been comic relief, "count"?

Fun. The trope "There is a traitor in the team" usually applies to Team Good, not Team Evil. In fact, for a split second there, I thought they had a pawn in the Order. Then I realized Sabine was talking about V.

[DeadMG]

Interesting that the world inside the rift isn't news to the Directors.

I also wonder who their pawn on Team Evil is- I highly doubt it's Xykon, and the roaches are hardly useful pawns, even if the IFCC can control them, unless they manifest some serious ass-kicking in the next ten minutes.

That only leaves MitD and Redcloak, of which Redcloak would have the more apparent means of control, since all his knowledge of the Snarl and the Plan come from the Crimson Mantle, and in effect, we only have the Crimson Mantle's word for it that it came from the Dark One.

However, I think that the primary trouble with this interpretation is that it's too obvious. I mean, the Giant may as well have come out and had the Directors reveal it. So I expect that it's not going to be that at all. An influence on the MitD may well be an interesting development. He's starting to have so many factors pulling him in one direction and another.

Or perhaps it will be revealed that, for example, the crown Xykon wears permits the IFCC some measure of control over him. That would help explain the MitD's suddenly effective bluff.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Leirus]

Interesting that the world inside the rift isn't news to the Directors.

I also wonder who their pawn on Team Evil is- I highly doubt it's Xykon, and the roaches are hardly useful pawns. That only leaves MitD and Redcloak, of which Redcloak would have the more apparent means of control, since all his knowledge of the Snarl and the Plan come from the Crimson Mantle, and in effect, we only have the Crimson Mantle's word for it that it came from the Dark One.

However, I think that the primary trouble with this interpretation is that it's too obvious. I mean, the Giant may as well have come out and had the Directors reveal it. So I expect that it's not going to be that at all.

There is not that many people in Team Evil. So the other option would be the MitD being a kind of monster that the directors can control, I guess.

[fan4battle]

Also, insane theory; The Crimson Mantle is an artifact created by the IFCC, and all this Dark One lore is a tool they've been using to manipulate the goblin population, thus making Redcloak the pawn on Team Evil.
Well, then Jirix wouldn't have had that after death experience with the Dark One, now would he?

[Incom]

Oh man, what if MITD is their pawn with Team Evil?

"No, Monster-san. You are the demons."

[allenw]

I also wonder who their pawn on Team Evil is- I highly doubt it's Xykon, and the roaches are hardly useful pawns. That only leaves MitD and Redcloak, of which Redcloak would have the more apparent means of control, since all his knowledge of the Snarl and the Plan come from the Crimson Mantle, and in effect, we only have the Crimson Mantle's word for it that it came from the Dark One.


While an interesting theory, Jirix did allegedly speak to the Dark One in person while he (Jirix) was dead, and even relayed a message to Redcloak; and you'd think "by the way, that cloak and/or Plan? Not from me" would be the kind of thing the Dark One would mention.
I suppose Jirix could be the IFCCs pawn, but he doesn't currently have any dierect influence on Team Evil. I like the demon-roach idea, though I won't discount MitD being an unwitting long-term sleeper agent.
Or... The Dark One could be the pawn!

[Leirus]

Well, then Jirix wouldn't have had that after death experience with the Dark One, now would he?

But Jirix is evil, so the directors could have just shown him a makeshift version of the Dark One...

I think. I am bit iffy on how exactly OOts (Or D&D for that matter) afterlife works.

[Jay R]

The IFCC seem to know more about the planet in the Rift than anyone else, and have a plan we don't know. Sabine thinks they have a pawn on every team. That leads me to the following speculation.

Redcloak and his predecessor believe that the Crimson Mantle came from the Dark One. Do we have any independent confirmation of that, or is its origin still unexplored?

[Tragak]

Maybe Jirix made the whole thing up to exploit his subjects' worship of Redcloak and the Dark One?

[Komodo]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.

This...was not what I had intended when I said what I did...but I can see how it could be seen this way. I'm sorry.

[Gift Jeraff]

Maybe Cedrik is the big demon prince guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html) some goblins worship.

[Roland Itiative]

That use of plural when talking about Tarquin's group, and Sabine's mention of the IFCC having pawns in every team makes me wonder if any of Tarquin's current team mates is also a fiend.

And if they somehow have a pawn in Team Evil, but the only constant on that team I can think of that could work for them are the demon roaches...

[elros]

It is scary to see how effective evil can be when they work together.

Unfortunately, good may have teamwork, but "good is dumb (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsDumb)".

[Dracon1us]

Now we see their true colors... but where the xxxxx is tarquin?
moved to the next gate?

[The Smallest]

Now we see their true colors... but where the xxxxx is tarquin?
moved to the next gate?

Off-panel?

[Dracon1us]

That use of plural when talking about Tarquin's group, and Sabine's mention of the IFCC having pawns in every team makes me wonder if any of Tarquin's current team mates is also a fiend.

And if they somehow have a pawn in Team Evil, but the only constant on that team I can think of that could work for them are the demon roaches...

Tarquin: I don't know what the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ you are talking about!


(to me is a certain reptile-vampire...)

[Leirus]

The IFCC seem to know more about the planet in the Rift than anyone else, and have a plan we don't know. Sabine thinks they have a pawn on every team. That leads me to the following speculation.

Redcloak and his predecessor believe that the Crimson Mantle came from the Dark One. Do we have any independent confirmation of that, or is its origin still unexplored?

In 704 the Dark One refers to Redcloack as "his one true prophet"... so I think so. If the Crimson Mantle is a trap...

[luc258]

How long till the drow grows weary of the imp? Drows should be borderline paranoid about their allies anyways and the imp has been behaving suspiciously for a while. Maybe he will go Vaarsuvius on the little bugger but with better aim.

[The Smallest]

I quoted Pee? What? Happened?

[Sweet_Goddess]

Also, I totally read Nale's "GREENHILT!" in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c) voice.

Who didn't?

[Xelbiuj]

"Don't feel bad elf . . . if that helps" seems odd for a demon to say, unless V should feel bad. lol

Durkon fell for the bluff. >.<

[Kish]

There's a word for succubi who automatically try to make everyone around them feel bad. It's "failures."

[Sweet_Goddess]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-- no wait, I mean, GREENHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILT!!

In response to your signature... Yes, you should.

HALLEFLUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!

[Tock Zipporah]

hehe, Nale.

Also, insane theory; The Crimson Mantle is an artifact created by the IFCC, and all this Dark One lore is a tool they've been using to manipulate the goblin population, thus making Redcloak the pawn on Team Evil.

Impossible. In the IFCC's first appearance, they explicitly state they didn't know about the Gates until Sabine told them. Whereas the Crimson Mantle was made over thirty years ago.

[Burner28]

And so the plot thickens.

[Lord Raziere]

I think its clear that the IFCC has known about this for a long time.

then again they are creatures of the lower planes….so technically they probably knew about this, since if the gods hid in the upper planes, the fiends must've hid in the lower ones to keep from being destroyed by the Snarl.

so the IFCC could theoretically be around to see what really happened, or at least been there. how long have they been planning this? I don't think Sabine's informing them of this is when they really started knowing.

their plans could've been in the works since the new world was created.

I wonder: could THE DARK ONE be the pawn that the IFCC is talking about? could they have manipulated him into the position he is now? could….could they have made a deal with The Dark One so that he would become a warlord, unite the goblins, then manipulated the humans into killing him and thus made him a god?

thus giving him the knowledge, and the reason to manipulate the gates?

wait…..did……did we ever get a confirmation of WHERE The Dark One got the ritual from? could….could the IFCC have made that ritual?

…..for some reason….the thought that The Dark One could be the IFCC's unknowing pawn is both plausible and scary….because it means they can manipulate gods….and judging by how good at this stuff they are? I can believe they are completely capable of that...

[pendell]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.

Good. Thanks.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Gift Jeraff]

Impossible. In the IFCC's first appearance, they explicitly state they didn't know about the Gates until Sabine told them. Whereas the Crimson Mantle was made over thirty years ago.

We don't really know how they reacted to Sabine telling them about the Gates. They may have already known.

[Fates]

Is it just me, or was Malack smiling in the last panel?

[Vinsfeld]

Nice Sabine and V moment.

[wolfdreams01]

Great strip - I really like Rich's characterization of Sabine and her unusual chattiness. Obviously she feels well-disposed towards V after the elf gave her the good advice in Azure City that helped fix her relationship with Nale. V, on the other hand, would have no idea why the succubus appears to be so friendly with him, since she was shapechanged into a different appearance when he gave her that advice.

[Tock Zipporah]

I think its clear that the IFCC has known about this for a long time.

then again they are creatures of the lower planes….so technically they probably knew about this, since if the gods hid in the upper planes, the fiends must've hid in the lower ones to keep from being destroyed by the Snarl.

so the IFCC could theoretically be around to see what really happened, or at least been there. how long have they been planning this? I don't think Sabine's informing them of this is when they really started knowing.

their plans could've been in the works since the new world was created.

I wonder: could THE DARK ONE be the pawn that the IFCC is talking about? could they have manipulated him into the position he is now? could….could they have made a deal with The Dark One so that he would become a warlord, unite the goblins, then manipulated the humans into killing him and thus made him a god?

thus giving him the knowledge, and the reason to manipulate the gates?

wait…..did……did we ever get a confirmation of WHERE The Dark One got the ritual from? could….could the IFCC have made that ritual?

…..for some reason….the thought that The Dark One could be the IFCC's unknowing pawn is both plausible and scary….because it means they can manipulate gods….and judging by how good at this stuff they are? I can believe they are completely capable of that...

"Plausible"? No, it isn't. The only basis for such an argument is "if everything we know about everything has been a lie this whole time."

Occam's razor: The simplest solution is the best one. Which of these is simpler:

1. There's an elaborate conspiracy in which the IFCC have manipulated a God into creating an artifact and lying to his own followers in order to trick his high priest into manipulating events that affect the entire Goblin race, only to have it turn out that the ritual, the Crimson Mantle, and the very word of the Dark One himself are all lies. The entire foundation of the goblin religion is an elaborate lie that involved the IFCC creating a God so they would have a pawn, then revealing to that God information about the snarl, somehow convincing him he could use it for his own purposes, getting him to make an artifact, and controlling his every action over the last 30+ years. This includes the IFCC lying when they were only talking among their own group with no good guys to overhear them.

Or 2. The IFCC came into the game late and have a separate plan all of their own.

[Tock Zipporah]

We don't really know how they reacted to Sabine telling them about the Gates. They may have already known.

They explicitly stated they didn't know until after Sabine told them, and they were only talking to Qarr at the time. Why would they lie? It's ridiculous to think they lied to their own group as part of some elaborate manipulation (when no good guys were involved and no good guys have ever heard the lie since then), when the simpler solution is they just didn't know anything.

[Tragak]

"Plausible"? No, it isn't. The only basis for such an argument is "if everything we know about everything has been a lie this whole time."

Occam's razor: The simplest solution is the best one. Which of these is simpler:

1. There's an elaborate conspiracy in which the IFCC have manipulated a God into creating an artifact and lying to his own followers in order to trick his high priest into manipulating events that affect the entire Goblin race, only to have it turn out that the ritual, the Crimson Mantle, and the very word of the Dark One himself are all lies. The entire foundation of the goblin religion is an elaborate lie that involved the IFCC creating a God so they would have a pawn, then revealing to that God information about the snarl, somehow convincing him he could use it for his own purposes, getting him to make an artifact, and controlling his every action over the last 30+ years. This includes the IFCC lying when they were only talking among their own group with no good guys to overhear them.

Or 2. The IFCC came into the game late and have a separate plan all of their own. He probably liked the way he phrased it better (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) :smallwink:

[happycrow]

Nice Sabine and V moment.

Yup. She comes across as comforting, but her underlying message is a real twist of the knife in V's guts: "you're totally skrood AND nowhere near as interesting or significant as you think you are."

[Tock Zipporah]

He probably liked the way he phrased it better (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) :smallwink:

I was hoping someone would get that reference, and you did :D

[Lord Raziere]

Impossible. In the IFCC's first appearance, they explicitly state they didn't know about the Gates until Sabine told them. Whereas the Crimson Mantle was made over thirty years ago.

hahaha, nope.

what they actually say:

"We first became aware of Vaarsuvius from one of our agents"

they said nothing about the gates.

[Tock Zipporah]

hahaha, nope.

what they actually say:

"We first became aware of Vaarsuvius from one of our agents"

they said nothing about the gates.

And how does that in any way support the idea of them knowing about the Gates ahead of time?

If you're implying they raised a Goblin to godhood to manipulate all events around the gates starting more than thirty years ago, it's kinda foolish to think they would then not know of the Order of the Stick and their involvement.

Or, maybe they just didn't know ANYTHING until Sabine told them. Being an archfiend doesn't make you omniscient.

[Ornithologist]

There are not going to be any rape scenes in this comic, ever, so those of you inclined to wonder about it...Don't.

Oddly enough, my first thought was that she's off the clock. Its like her lunch break as it were.

Maybe she's union?:smallwink:

[Oko and Qailee]

Serves Nale right

[RickDaily12]

"Plausible"? No, it isn't. The only basis for such an argument is "if everything we know about everything has been a lie this whole time."

Occam's razor: The simplest solution is the best one. Which of these is simpler:

1. There's an elaborate conspiracy in which the IFCC have manipulated a God into creating an artifact and lying to his own followers in order to trick his high priest into manipulating events that affect the entire Goblin race, only to have it turn out that the ritual, the Crimson Mantle, and the very word of the Dark One himself are all lies. The entire foundation of the goblin religion is an elaborate lie that involved the IFCC creating a God so they would have a pawn, then revealing to that God information about the snarl, somehow convincing him he could use it for his own purposes, getting him to make an artifact, and controlling his every action over the last 30+ years. This includes the IFCC lying when they were only talking among their own group with no good guys to overhear them.

Or 2. The IFCC came into the game late and have a separate plan all of their own.

This. For this reason, let's not mix the deity with the demons.

To respond to an earlier poster, there is just no way that the IFCC is the Dark One. That's just an insult to Redcloak. Firstly, Redcloak draws divine powers from the deity that he prays to every night. The IFCC are not part of this pantheon, and would not be able to grant such power to a person like Redcloak without more... immortality? Something involving divine ranks. Anyway, since all deities have a glow, which the IFCC lack, they do not have said power to pass onto Redcloak. Besides which, Jirix already met the Dark One. He and his plans are both definitely very real.

And as far as the Rift is concerned, either the Gods were deliberately ignorant of what it is V and everybody else are seeing, OR, they never knew what existed in the rifts to begin with. As far as the Dark One is concerned, whom had entered the game a lot later than most others, I'm opting in his case that he was lied to by the others, and the entire goblin plot is doomed to explode from the very beginning because of this lack of critical information.

But don't kid yourselves... Redcloak has directly communicated with the Dark One via the cloak before. This was definitely not an IFCC bypass, trust me.

Interesting to see this Rift plot thicken by day though. I want to see what lies beyond... is the Snarl capable of illusions, or shapeshifting...?

[Forikroder]

This. For this reason, let's not mix the deity with the demons.

To respond to an earlier poster, there is just no way that the IFCC is the Dark One. That's just an insult to Redcloak. Firstly, Redcloak draws divine powers from the deity that he prays to every night. The IFCC are not part of this pantheon, and would not be able to grant such power to a person like Redcloak without more... immortality? Something involving divine ranks. Anyway, since all deities have a glow, which the IFCC lack, they do not have said power to pass onto Redcloak. Besides which, Jirix already met the Dark One. He and his plans are both definitely very real.

And as far as the Rift is concerned, either the Gods were deliberately ignorant of what it is V and everybody else are seeing, OR, they never knew what existed in the rifts to begin with. As far as the Dark One is concerned, whom had entered the game a lot later than most others, I'm opting in his case that he was lied to by the others, and the entire goblin plot is doomed to explode from the very beginning because of this lack of critical information.

But don't kid yourselves... Redcloak has directly communicated with the Dark One via the cloak before. This was definitely not an IFCC bypass, trust me.

Interesting to see this Rift plot thicken by day though. I want to see what lies beyond... is the Snarl capable of illusions, or shapeshifting...?

also the IFCC have a non-compete clause with the evil gods so there incapable of using divine power

and Jyrix DIED and saw the Dark One and came back to tell the tale

[Arkady]

Nale's expression in the third-last panel... :smallbiggrin:

Really curious to see what happens next!

[Syncrogti]

I bet Nale's anger and possibly realization that he failed due to his faulty reasoning will further push him to make more mistakes, giving Malack a prime opportunity to avenge his children via Nale's death.

How long are these called creatures going to stay?; I am so used to low level campaigns that my summoned creatures disappear rather quickly.

[Syncrogti]

Also, I am grateful the author has some boundaries he will not cross. Today's media/entertainment seems to forgo inventiveness/ingenuity in favor of shock.
I admit the occasional profanity bothers me but it seems to be used in appropriate/likely situations instead of just pervasive use when other vocab would be better. Odd that the killing doesn't bother me....

[Forikroder]

I bet Nale's anger and possibly realization that he failed due to his faulty reasoning will further push him to make more mistakes, giving Malack a prime opportunity to avenge his children via Nale's death.

How long are these called creatures going to stay?; I am so used to low level campaigns that my summoned creatures disappear rather quickly.

there not summoned they were called using planar ally so there going to be around for a long time

[Bluepaw]

I guarantee you if I had drawn an iPhone, everyone would be saying, "What's that weird rounded rectangle she's holding?"

Not to mention it's a rather inopportune time for Mr. Jones & Mr Rodriguez to teleport in.

Also, "Don't spoil our celebration with your rampant speculation"? :smallwink:

[Anarion]

Oh, Giant. Gagging the source of wild and unsupported speculation? How could you?!

[luc258]

I also wonder who their pawn on Team Evil is- I highly doubt it's Xykon, and the roaches are hardly useful pawns, even if the IFCC can control them, unless they manifest some serious ass-kicking in the next ten minutes.

I was actually wondering about that a bit. Those roaches are pretty much everywhere with Team Evil all the time and if they can relay their informations to the IFCC they would be very valuable.

There was a strip with Jirix and how he completely squished one of them when he was put in charge. Maybe he knows something from his trip to the afterlive about the roaches that he was not allowed to tell Redcloak.
The whole story about the gates and the snarl is off anyways and that was made a point several times now. Who knows what the motivation of the Dark One, the IFCC etc. really is. Maybe all the would-be puppetmasters in the background are trying to pull each others' strings with shady double-deals.

Then again, maybe Jirix just didn't like the roaches.

[Grey Watcher]

Kind of an Old School cell phone. You would think Sabine would have something a bit more modern and stylish... :smallwink:

Come on, IFCC's a new organiztion! They can't afford all the latest fancy things. They probably blew a sizeable chunk of their budget on that TV!

Also, it's a minor thing, but I kinda wish Sabine hadn't told us about the ways the Directors play off each other. I think I preferred them all monolithic and inscrutable.

Maybe this is fodder for some kind of inevitable breakdown within the IFCC? Or maybe I'm just engaging in the forum pastime reading too much into it?

[ellindsey]

How long are these called creatures going to stay?; I am so used to low level campaigns that my summoned creatures disappear rather quickly.

If they were called with Planar Ally, then there's no time limit on their stay. They will remain until the task they were called for is done.

[Ghost Nappa]

Come on, IFCC's a new organiztion! They can't afford all the latest fancy things. They probably blew a sizeable chunk of their budget on that TV!

Also, it's a minor thing, but I kinda wish Sabine hadn't told us about the ways the Directors play off each other. I think I preferred them all monolithic and inscrutable.

Maybe this is fodder for some kind of inevitable breakdown within the IFCC? Or maybe I'm just engaging in the forum pastime reading too much into it?

I have to agree, Sabine exposition-ing to Vaarsuvius in that sixth panel felt a bit odd.

[Smolder]

Durkon gets much funnier lines now that he's dead.

[DeadMG]

Xykon- not very likely for the IFCC to have direct control, although they could have subtle control similar to Redcloak. This would have to be through quite a new mechanism though- remember that in order to get Xykon to move on, they had to attack him using V instead of just using their pawn.

Demon Roaches- far from unlikely that they are commandable by the IFCC, but I just don't know what purpose they could serve. Perhaps information-gathering? They haven't shown any ability to report home though, unlike Sabine or Qarr, and their origin story in SoD implies that they would be with virtually every group that visited that place.

MitD- not very likely. His growing affection for the Order and general lack of intelligence suggests that he isn't capable of carrying on such an elaborate deception- plus all those years in the circus just hoping the goblins would rescue him?

Redcloak- There's been a little too much direct divine intervention by the Dark One- for example, Jirix's death. Plus, the Crimson Mantle is supposed to be quite a bit older than the IFCC's knowledge.

The simple fact is, none of these are a good fit for being the IFCC pawn on Team Evil.

[e1_conquistador]

And there are pawns on Team Evil?

...Whuhoh. The demon roaches...mayyyybe. They're pretty inconsequential, though. Doesn't leave a lot; it's not Xykon, and it's not RC. Who's that even leave, just MitD right?

Seems farfetched. Maybe it is just the roaches...

SABINE: ...I wonder if she remembers talking to V about Nale? ...She's never been exactly the tight-lipped type.

DURKON: Doh. Being an undead thrall's not so hot for the INT score, huh? ...Hey, how do you suppose Durkon's spell selection works now? I can't imagine Thor granting anything, so...what, automatic Nergal conversion? That's kinda...lame, in some ways.

[Zephyrtheknight]

Wow that is amazing... once again Giant you prove that this is truely one of the best comics out there!

[Gift Jeraff]

The demon-roaches did help to keep Xykon entertained while the OOTS regrouped and the Linear Guild searched for Girard's Gate. Had it not been for all their sharks and such, Xykon may have gotten bored and beaten the OOTS and LG to the Gate months ago.

Maybe the IFCC was the one supplying them with the acidborn and lava sharks?

[brionl]

Have we seen this gadget before? If not, I'm tempted to say it's something that only works in Hell. So maybe not a cell phone, more like a wireless phone handset. And if it belongs to the directors then a non-Sabine aesthetic is appropriate.

It's a Hellphone. Duh.

[luc258]

Demon Roaches- far from unlikely that they are commandable by the IFCC, but I just don't know what purpose they could serve. Perhaps information-gathering?
Which is the primary job of any spy and very, very valuable. IF there is some kind of direct agent for the IFCC in Team Evil, the roaches would make the most sense.

[Gorgon_Heap]

I just want to say I love that all the villains are now shouting "Greenhilt!" with vexation. The man's finally getting all the respect that will get him killed.

Again.

[Breccia]

So many good lines...I'll have to side with "Buncha rocks to the face" as my favorite.

[David Argall]

That's stereotyping. Elan doesn't always sing just because he's a bard. Roy doesn't bash in skulls at random just because he's a fighter.

Likewise, Sabine doesn't have to molest every person she sees just because she's a demon.
She molests everyone because she is a demon of seduction. Like she says in 394, she had sex 4 times in 3 hours because she had other things to do. Here she only has V to do.
About the only thing probably protecting V is that she is a demon of seduction, and so she may well consider rape boring. But she should be all over him, both literally and otherwise, and a firm "no" may be the only thing preventing a lawsuit for child support in 9 months. [Since Sabine is a shapeshifter, it is not definite who will be the suing mother. 2 children may not be out of the question.]

[Goosefeather]

She molests everyone because she is a demon of seduction. Like she says in 394, she had sex 4 times in 3 hours because she had other things to do. Here she only has V to do.
About the only thing probably protecting V is that she is a demon of seduction, and so she may well consider rape boring. But she should be all over him, both literally and otherwise, and a firm "no" may be the only thing preventing a lawsuit for child support in 9 months. [Since Sabine is a shapeshifter, it is not definite who will be the suing mother. 2 children may not be out of the question.]

I shouldn't have to be pointing this out, but being promiscuous does not equate to being a rapist.

[e1_conquistador]

"Tell him not to try to..."

Something important cut off there for dramatic suspense...

Sabine's pretty scrappy for a succubus; her ratio of draining & fighting to being slutty is very high with only occasional exceptions. Whether it's because she's a "a bit of a prude," not very smart as they go (you think???) or just to keep the comic safely G-rated, I sure could do with less calls for fanfic.

[TrollCapAmerica]

She molests everyone because she is a demon of seduction. Like she says in 394, she had sex 4 times in 3 hours because she had other things to do. Here she only has V to do.
About the only thing probably protecting V is that she is a demon of seduction, and so she may well consider rape boring. But she should be all over him, both literally and otherwise, and a firm "no" may be the only thing preventing a lawsuit for child support in 9 months. [Since Sabine is a shapeshifter, it is not definite who will be the suing mother. 2 children may not be out of the question.]

What about the problem of not knowing what to shapeshift into when trying to seduce V?

also the mole in team evil has gotta be the roaches.Nothing else makes sense and they have been lowkey enough spies to get away with it.Somehow it also makes sense that on the single strongest team in the story the mole is the weakest easiest to ignore thing

[Amphiox]

Should we be so certain that Sabine ISN'T trying to seduce V?

You know, being all gentle and sympathetic, but not too pushy, when the target is in trouble, emotional turmoil, and only recently had a longterm relationship ended?

Playing the long game, see?

[Chessgeek]

Forcing V to shut up? Good.
Nale screaming Khan Greenhilt? Great.
Durkon asking when to look for the second pyramid? Absolutely fantastic!

[Forikroder]

She molests everyone because she is a demon of seduction. Like she says in 394, she had sex 4 times in 3 hours because she had other things to do. Here she only has V to do.
About the only thing probably protecting V is that she is a demon of seduction, and so she may well consider rape boring. But she should be all over him, both literally and otherwise, and a firm "no" may be the only thing preventing a lawsuit for child support in 9 months. [Since Sabine is a shapeshifter, it is not definite who will be the suing mother. 2 children may not be out of the question.]

Vs jsut a soul and tied up tight, theres not enough room for her to do anything

plus the Directors probably gav her orders not to touch it

and assuming shes interested in doing that she hasnt had time yet with all the action and the call so if shes going to make a move it would be next strip

[zimmerwald1915]

Oddly enough, my first thought was that she's off the clock. Its like her lunch break as it were.

Maybe she's union?:smallwink:
Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if this were true. It'd be consistent with the portrayal organized labor's received in the comic so far. Roy called the Greysky Thieves' Guild a union despite it acting more like a mafia, the Wooden Forest Druid's union let bandits operate and molest travelers without consequence, and the Bleedingham Slave Drivers' union is integral to the maintinence of slavery in the Empire of Blood

[Cranica]

While we've known the IFCC's names for a while, I think this comic suggests *which* Director is which. We already knew the yellow speech bubbles were Director Lee, and a combination of their toast in the first panel and Sabine's description of their dynamic suggests that Lee = yellow, Cedric = Orange, and Nero = purple.

[FullStop]

Funny that Sabine's so apparently friendly with V, though I suppose that does have some precedent, and there's not exactly any major alignment boundaries there either.

Thinking about the last comic and looking forward a bit, I do rather miss O'Chul. Excited to see him again when the focus shifts to Kraagor's gate, he's far and away my favorite character outside the main players. Also'd like to see more development for Lien, the extra stuff in the books makes me think she'd be a lot of fun to see more of. Wonder what sort of character dynamic her and O'Chul have.

[hamishspence]

While we've known the IFCC's names for a while, I think this comic suggests *which* Director is which. We already knew the yellow speech bubbles were Director Lee, and a combination of their toast in the first panel and Sabine's description of their dynamic suggests that Lee = yellow, Cedric = Orange, and Nero = purple.
Don't Split The Party already clarified that Cedrik was orange text and Nero purple text.

[Goosefeather]

Y'know, it wouldn't surprise me if this were true. It'd be consistent with the portrayal organized labor's received in the comic so far. Roy called the Greysky Thieves' Guild a union despite it acting more like a mafia, the Wooden Forest Druid's union let bandits operate and molest travelers without consequence, and the Bleedingham Slave Drivers' union is integral to the maintinence of slavery in the Empire of Blood

Evil: A Growth Industry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) - and one that's heavily syndicalised? :smalltongue:

[David Argall]

What about the problem of not knowing what to shapeshift into when trying to seduce V?

also the mole in team evil has gotta be the roaches.Nothing else makes sense and they have been lowkey enough spies to get away with it.Somehow it also makes sense that on the single strongest team in the story the mole is the weakest easiest to ignore thing
Assuming she can shapeshift as fast and easily as it has been shown in the strip, not a serious problem. Round 1-a sexy female elf, round 2 - a sexy male elf round 3 - a mix... And Sabine can be presumed to be skilled in judging response. So V is going to be looking at a very attractive something long before the 20 minutes are up.

[Tock Zipporah]

Demon Roaches- far from unlikely that they are commandable by the IFCC, but I just don't know what purpose they could serve. Perhaps information-gathering? They haven't shown any ability to report home though, unlike Sabine or Qarr, and their origin story in SoD implies that they would be with virtually every group that visited that place.


The Demon Roaches have a far more sinister purpose: tearing down the fabric of reality and ensuring the destruction of the world by chewing on the threads that hold together... the FOURTH WALL!

[Mutant Sheep]

Oh, the IFCC. If this wasn't Rich, I'd be begging for a spinoff comic about them.:smalltongue::smallamused:

[TheWombatOfDoom]

:smalleek: Is this the real life?

[Throknor]

And how does that in any way support the idea of them knowing about the Gates ahead of time?

If you're implying they raised a Goblin to godhood to manipulate all events around the gates starting more than thirty years ago, it's kinda foolish to think they would then not know of the Order of the Stick and their involvement.

Or, maybe they just didn't know ANYTHING until Sabine told them. Being an archfiend doesn't make you omniscient.
Logic fail. The point is that Sabine informed them of V's interest in the gates. Whether or not they already knew of the gates themselves cannot be determined by that scene.

[Solara]

I do not understand Sabine's infatuation with Nale, at all. I mean, it was one thing when she was just assigned to him and it was a job with 'benefits', but actually being in love with this shallow, egotistical, second-string villain who probably has less time left to live than Belkar does? Girl, you can do so much better.

I've always been pretty 'meh' about Sabine (and honestly the entire Linear Guild compared to antagonists like Xykon) but scenes like today's second to last panel just make me sad because I know there's absolutely no way this can end well...

[Anarion]

Don't Split The Party already clarified that Cedrik was orange text and Nero purple text.

Wasn't that immediately followed by Rich explaining that the three work as one unit and then superseded by his commentary in the forum that he assigns the dialogue so that all three get a chance to speak, rather than certain aspects of the plan belonging specifically to one of the three?

Certainly this comic implies that the three have a dynamic that could be disrupted in various ways (and V might even be smart enough to pick up on that at some point), but I'm still not convinced that we know which one is which.

[FullStop]

Wasn't that immediately followed by Rich explaining that the three work as one unit and then superseded by his commentary in the forum that he assigns the dialogue so that all three get a chance to speak, rather than certain aspects of the plan belonging specifically to one of the three?

Certainly this comic implies that the three have a dynamic that could be disrupted in various ways (and V might even be smart enough to pick up on that at some point), but I'm still not convinced that we know which one is which.

Though it mostly doesn't matter which one is speaking a given piece of dialogue,(because they act as a team) that does not mean we suddenly don't know explicitly which of the IFCC is which.

EDIT: That is, The Giant has explicitly stated which is which. That he follows it up with "but in practice it doesn't make much difference" does not invalidate his prior statement.

[hamishspence]

Wasn't that immediately followed by Rich explaining that the three work as one unit and then superseded by his commentary in the forum that he assigns the dialogue so that all three get a chance to speak, rather than certain aspects of the plan belonging specifically to one of the three?

In DStP, as I recall- it was also said that, where possible, all three get to speak- and that who says what, of the three, was not really important.

This newest reference by Sabine though, might expand on how the three work- not so much "who says what" as "who's responsible for what."

If Sabine's perception is accurate, that is.

[JavaScribe]

Sounds like Sabine just told V the IFCC's weak link. Too bad (s)he doesn't have the charisma to exploit it.

[luc258]

Sounds like Sabine just told V the IFCC's weak link. Too bad (s)he doesn't have the charisma to exploit it.

903 Carefully Couched
Maybe V is getting fed (dis)-information to trick him?

[Jane_Doe]

Aw, Sabine has a soft spot for 'Suvie ^^ . That's so sweet ^^ !

Won't stop her from shredding V if she has to, though.

...Promptly writes a fanfic involving Sabine talking V into working for them full-time over the course of a couple such calls from the Fiends, followed by them hijacking the plan for themselves.

[Forikroder]

Assuming she can shapeshift as fast and easily as it has been shown in the strip, not a serious problem. Round 1-a sexy female elf, round 2 - a sexy male elf round 3 - a mix... And Sabine can be presumed to be skilled in judging response. So V is going to be looking at a very attractive something long before the 20 minutes are up.

you realise that even if V does get arroused he has no flesh in which to act on said arrousal?

hes only a soul Sabine cant actually touch him

[Herabec]

you realise that even if V does get arroused he has no flesh in which to act on said arrousal?

hes only a soul Sabine cant actually touch him

Technically, Sabine's only a soul as well when in Hell.

[ThePhantom]

Boy am I looking forward to Elan's happy ending, which will have the IFCC fall apart. They are more constantly evil than most of the other villains, and not as funny, so I really want them to have their evil plan fail.

[Forikroder]

Boy am I looking forward to Elan's happy ending, which will have the IFCC fall apart. They are more constantly evil than most of the other villains, and not as funny, so I really want them to have their evil plan fail.

surprise ending: Elan was actually a sleeper agent all along and is actually on the IFCCs side, thats why the Oracle said "for you at least" when talking about happy endings

[Syklone]

In Panel 9, why is Nale standing there with his mouth open? Is he stunned from the explosion?

[happycrow]

I read it as "he's stupefied at the concept that he just got brutally played."

[Holy_Knight]

Well, V's encounter with the Fiends isn't over yet :smallwink:



Yes, but that was to Qarr; not any protangonists.



Not while they're Called, though, right?



You could almost say that you're... going to hell for that pun.
YEAAAAAAH!!!
Sorry about the long post, you guys :smallredface: I'm just pumped up about these new comics coming out almost every day.
You must be new here. :smalltongue:

Switching subjects, a lot of people have commented on Nale's "GREENHILT!!" line, but I find it interesting that his anger is directed specifically at Roy instead of Elan. Is Nale's perception of Elan's role shifiting? And by extension, might that signal a subconscious shift in Nale's perception of his own role or importance?

[Forikroder]

You must be new here. :smalltongue:

Switching subjects, a lot of people have commented on Nale's "GREENHILT!!" line, but I find it interesting that his anger is directed specifically at Roy instead of Elan. Is Nale's perception of Elan's role shifiting? And by extension, might that signal a subconscious shift in Nale's perception of his own role or importance?

hes known since the dungeon that Greenhilt is his real opposition he jsut wants to see Elan dead more

[Ezekiel]

You must be new here. :smalltongue:

Switching subjects, a lot of people have commented on Nale's "GREENHILT!!" line, but I find it interesting that his anger is directed specifically at Roy instead of Elan. Is Nale's perception of Elan's role shifiting? And by extension, might that signal a subconscious shift in Nale's perception of his own role or importance?

I think it's more a recognition that Roy is the tactical brains of the Order, something he referred to when he & Thog caught Elan alone in Cliffport.

[Tock Zipporah]

Logic fail. The point is that Sabine informed them of V's interest in the gates. Whether or not they already knew of the gates themselves cannot be determined by that scene.

Actually, you're wrong there.

A) Show me one piece of evidence that shows they DID know about the gates ahead of time. Saying "we don't know" does not prove anything in favor of that side.

B) I DO have multiple pieces of evidence showing they DIDN'T know about the gates ahead of time:

Nale first learns about the Gates here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html), and tells Sabine here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html). Sabine's reaction makes it clear this is ALL brand new information to her, and she whisks away to tell the IFCC because they asked to know about "anything that may tip the cosmic balance between Good and Evil in their favor."

She obviously wasn't going to tell them anything about Vaarsuvius yet, because she didn't learn about V's hot-headed-blast-first-and-ask-questions-later attitude until here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html). In the commentary from Don't Split the Party, the Giant specifically said that scene in #385 was there to show V's character issues and how he would use his arcane might to resolve problems (which is info Sabine later fed to the IFCC (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) so they could be ready to tempt V).

The IFCC also didn't know what the bird was staring at (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html), and therefore didn't know about the world inside the rift until later.

Is this evidence "100% foolproof and conclusive"? No. But it is strong and well-reasoned, and there is no strong, well-reasoned argument backed by evidence to show the IFCC somehow knew about the Gates ahead of time and manipulated the Dark One. That's just empty conspiracy theory with no basis.

[BroomGuys]

Haha, yep, you got outsmarted hard, Nale. Neener neener!

I don't like Nale :smallyuk:

[MoonCat]

Jeez, give me chance to edit it, wouldya? :smalltongue:

Consider it revenge for having ninja'd me in the original correction. :smalltongue:

[F.Harr]

Yes, Nale, Roy's smarter than you and he's the leader of his team. Heh, heh, heh.

Shmuck.

[Liliet]

I like IFCC's genre savvy and Sabine's casual friendliness. Well, she has a reason for it, V sort of helped her once, but nevertheless, Evil characters and especially LG members aren't known for gratefullness. Sabine is quickly rising in my personal rating of sympathetic characters. Nale should NOT die, if only for his role as her boyfriend.
And it looks like Malack hasn't attacked Nale... yet. I feel that the moment it happens is nearing, it might even be next strip, and Sabine will have to do something about it, probably betraying her superiors for her love and turns Good in the process... yay wishful thinking!
Too bad V is gagged, ve is much more fun with vir mouth open :smallsigh:

It does look like Blackwing was spot-on, so what's the source of IFCC's knowledge? Did they know it the moment Sabine told them, or did they spy on Blackwing?

[DaggerPen]

Huh. I'm surprised Qarr tried to hide who he was calling - I'd have thought he'd just fess up to talking with Sabine, since they're both on the same team and everything. Go figure.

Anyway, good comic. The old-fashioned cell phone amuses me, and the speculation about the IFCC's plans intrigues me. I'm betting that neither of V's initial thoughts are it, since it's like never the spoken speculation's explanation, so what else could their game be?

[Bedinsis]

I guarantee you if I had drawn an iPhone, everyone would be saying, "What's that weird rounded rectangle she's holding?"

Well, she obviously would have had The Order of the Stick (tm) iPhone shell, available now through cafepress!

The above sentence is a joke; drawing a stick-version of the shell illustration on such a small rectangle would be difficult and confusing for the readers.

[ellindsey]

Huh. I'm surprised Qarr tried to hide who he was calling - I'd have thought he'd just fess up to talking with Sabine, since they're both on the same team and everything. Go figure.


If he admitted that he was talking to Sabine, Nale would immediately want to talk to her, and would waste all sorts of time reassuring her that he was all right and other disgusting mushy stuff. Qarr has no interest in passing notes between them. Just because they're technically on the same team, doesn't mean they actually like each other, or that Qarr is going to do anything to help her that he doesn't absolutely have to.

[DaggerPen]

The IFCC seem to know more about the planet in the Rift than anyone else, and have a plan we don't know. Sabine thinks they have a pawn on every team. That leads me to the following speculation.

Redcloak and his predecessor believe that the Crimson Mantle came from the Dark One. Do we have any independent confirmation of that, or is its origin still unexplored?

Re: this entire discussion (and I'm still trawling through the thread, so maybe I missed it), but...

This is a universe where Gods Need Prayer Badly, isn't it? Where there's presumably now a small Banjo deity? If so many goblins worship the Dark One, wouldn't the Dark One have to exist, even if the goblin who was the Dark One was only a myth?

Though, the Dark One could potentially be allied with the IFCC. Still, if he was, I feel like he may have found a way to prod Redcloak into letting Xykon move on to the next gate that didn't involve V and the soul splice.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Also, the IFCC seemed to not know what blackwing was staring at when he froze at the rift in azure city.

[Sir_Leorik]

Between Redcloak and Nale, shouting "GREENHILT!" seems to be the "OotS"'s version of Kirk screaming "KHAAAAN!!!!" :smallbiggrin:

Of course the IFCC aren't going to spill the beans to V (though I didn't expect them to gag her). Redcloak, the IFCC Directors and Tarquin are some of the most genre savvy villains I've ever seen. The fact that they are all in the same comic is amazing.

Just as I predicted, Sabine is playing nice with V. Sabine won't try to free V and Blackwing (or remove the gag), but she won't harm them, and what she's told V about how the IFCC works is valuable intelligence. Sabine probably doesn't care about whether she's supposed to speak to the prisoners or not; she likes V, and she has nothing better to do for hours until she can plane shift back to Nale. That intelligence (how the IFCC operate, that they make multiple contingency plans that they can select at will, that they have pawns on every "team", and that Sabine and other fiends were sent to infiltrate Tarquin's operations at some point.) will come in handy, provided the OotS beat that Silicon Elemental and that V comes clean to Roy and the rest about everything she did, no matter how shameful.

Qarr is a real pain in the tuchus; I really don't understand why other devils haven't killed him yet for his insolence. All he had to do was say "I'll take that under advisement. I'm hanging up before these chumps get suspicious." :smallannoyed: Seriously, I find he's the most annoying Evil character in this comic. Xykon alternates between terrifying and humorous, Daimyo Kubota had quite a bit of class, Redcloak has a tragic backstory, I sympathized for the Ancient Black Dragon's loss, even as I was horrified by what she wanted to do in revenge, the IFCC directors are master manipulators, and Tarquin is affably Evil. The only Evil character who grates on me is Qarr, and I've figured out why: he not only doesn't care about anyone but himself, but he's too stupid and venal to hide that fact. And unlike Belkar, Qarr's not entertaining (or powerful) enough to overlook that he flaunts his utter disdain for everyone around him.

He treated Therkla like garbage, despite the fact that Daimyo Kubota treated her like a daughter (he wasn't smart enough to realize how fond the Daimyo was of his Half-Orc Ninja-Girl). He had nothing but snarky comments (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html) for the Devil he roped into fighting the OotS and Sapphire Guard after V turned him to stone. When the Ancient Black Dragon showed up to confront V, Qarr, who had been trying to tempt V, pointed out that if he knew someone like the Dragon he wouldn't have bothered with a "second-stringer" like V in the first place. I am getting real sick of this Tiny nuisance; hopefully Nale and Sabine will find a collar that inflicts dimensional anchor and Thog can finally have a puppy to call his own.:smallamused:

[Gamgee]

I want to know what V is thining? Can't V think out loud with a gag?

Also comics coming so fast, every time I'm in here there's a new comic. Good work and I'm glad that the Giant is feeling better!

I don't know, at least for this strip it appears to block the 4th wall.

[SoC175]

This is a universe where Gods Need Prayer Badly, isn't it? Don't think so. Lot of prayers can kickstart you into a deity (as evidenced by the DO and the elven pantheon), but the four pantheons were there before there was a world at all and after the first world was destroyed.

Maybe ascended deities need constant prayers to maintain their divnity, but at least the four pantheons don't seem to need prayers

[Emmit Svenson]

I am required by law to point out that Sabine's dialog in #903 dovetails nicely with my long-term suspicion that she tempted Tarquin from righteousness onto his current path, and that Tarquin is a blackguard and a fallen paladin.

There's no hard proof, of course.

[hamishspence]

I'm more inclined to the notion that the fiends sent Sabine to Tarquin's empire (which he rules from behind a puppet, and which was always very evil) to target Nale and lead him into rebellion against his father- because they knew Nale would be useful, somehow, later, even if not precisely how.

[Sir_Leorik]

Redcloak and his predecessor believe that the Crimson Mantle came from the Dark One. Do we have any independent confirmation of that, or is its origin still unexplored?

Are you denying that the Dark One exists? Wow. Even the Athar didn't deny that the D&D gods existed, they merely Denied that the "Powers" were the source of Divine Power, the creators of the Multiverse and the keepers of the secrets of existence. Factol Terrence and his followers would have had a field day with this level of barminess. :smallbiggrin:

Besides the fact that the Crimson Mantle downloaded it's information directly to Redcloak's brain (his mentor didn't tell him anything but to put it on), we have Jirix's message from the Dark One to his "prophet". I really don't see what more proof we need that the Dark One made the Crimson Mantle, gave it to one of his clerics, taught that cleric the Ritual, and informed him of "The Plan". Is it possible the Dark One doesn't know everything about the Rifts, Gates and Snarl? Yes. Is it possible Redcloak is a complete liar? Only to Xykon, not to Right-Eye.

[Wardog]

I thought it was more in this (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAwUImV8JY) voice.

Link's broken. Should be this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDAwUImV8JY).

And I imagined it more like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTuh-0znG7s):

[Sir_Leorik]

I'm more inclined to the notion that the fiends sent Sabine to Tarquin's empire (which he rules from behind a puppet, and which was always very evil) to target Nale and lead him into rebellion against his father- because they knew Nale would be useful, somehow, later, even if not precisely how.

Sabine used the plural; that means Director Lee sent more than one Fiend to infiltrate Tarquin's kingdom(s). There may have been one or more Succubi in each of the three kingdoms making up the Empire, each of them looking for a way to influence matters. It wouldn't surprise me if Sabine was the motivator behind Nale's rebellion against his father; remember what Sabine told Haley:

:sabine: "The Archfiends sent me to serve as Nale's concubine and advisor. That kid's got serious potential, you know. Eeeeeeeevil potential!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html)

[jidasfire]

Personally, I'm in the camp of the IFCC's ultimate plan being the release of the Snarl onto the godly planes. Fiends in general occupy a weird space inside and outside the pantheons, and if the Snarl were to get loose, who'd be more powerful than the lords of the Inferno? If the Order and Xykon keep fighting over the gates, it's inevitable that they'll continue to be destroyed, as Roy proved by blowing one up, especially with the Linear Guild nipping at everyone's heels. With only one gate to go, it would seem their plan is working.

Also, this strip, as well as some other recent ones, bring to mind that the next prequel book is being heavily hinted at. It seems to me that with all the subtle and interrupted references to the backstories of Nale, Tarquin, Sabine, and the IFCC, the book in question is going to give us the real dirt on them. Just a guess, mind you, but I think the text supports it pretty well. It also follows from how it would be really interesting to know about it all, but not absolutely vital to the story, much as Xykon and Redcloak's tale was. And before anyone corrects me on that, everything that was plot-crucial was eventually put in the strip.

So yeah, sand elemental and the Linear Guild bearing down on a battered Order and Tarquin still nowhere to be found? Definite trouble.

[RebelRogue]

Technically, Sabine's only a soul as well when in Hell.
Actually, as an Outsider, her body and soul are essentially two sides of the same thing.

[hamishspence]

It's possible to separate an Outsider's soul from its body via magic- though it's not exactly common.

Complete Divine suggests that the reason it requires True Resurrection to bring an Outsider (non-native) back from the dead, is because when its body dies, its soul very rapidly dissipates into the stuff of the plane- requiring such a spell to sift through the plane and reconstitute the soul.

[Kish]

If Sabine's perception is accurate, that is.
There is also a real possibility that what Sabine said was based on Sabine's assumptions about how alignments work, more than anything real.

(That's not the way I'm betting, but it is a possibility.)

[sengmeng]

I'm trying this new thing where I read the whole thread before commenting. Feels... weird. So, the primary discussions are: Why is Sabine being so nice to V? Who could the pawns be on Team Evil? What is the IFCC's plan?

My thoughts:
(1) Sabine isn't really vicious, likes evil and hates good. V is more or less asexual so she's not interested in him/her that way, and so she's just mildly curious. Plus, if she IS actually scheming, being polite and friendly to V will only drive home his guilt and/or make him/her more favorable towards evil, and she's subconsciously reinforcing V's status as a pawn of the IFCC. She may not be as smart as the directors, but if she was coached, she'd see how V would be antagonized and demoralized by a fiend treating him in a comradely manner. So, her behavior makes sense if she's simply acting naturally or trying to mess with V's head.

(2) The pawn(s) on Team Evil are likely not the roaches, because by entertaining Xykon, they actually worked against one of the IFCC's explicitly stated goals: get Xykon to leave Azure City and do something. The Monster in the Darkness is the most likely, because he is the most easily manipulated into working against them, and would make the best pawn without needing to know he is one (remember, they're counting V as a pawn, so it doesn't have to be willing or known). Or they lied and they are manipulating Team Evil more indirectly, like when they used V to attack Xykon.

(3) I have no idea. But neither does anyone but the Giant. I do feel safe saying that the IFCC is ad-libbing. They may have their current moves planned out, but they made those plans after the soul-splicing deal, because before Blackwing looked into the rift, no one knew about the planet. My best guess is they are hoping by luck or manipulation to observe someone going through the rift to find out more about what's on the other side.

(4) One more thing: I bet the fiends CAN split up V's debt of time. They will use up the longer ones first, and then V will be relieved that they can only do it once more and it will be only five minutes, only to find that they can disrupt him for crucial seconds at a time. Thus, he will be forced to admit this critical weakness to the rest of the Order. Hilarity ensues.

[Sir_Leorik]

Actually, as an Outsider, her body and soul are essentially two sides of the same thing.

Or to put it more plainly, Sabine is an Evil soul, dedicated to illicit forms of lust, made manifest.

[hamishspence]

Actually, as an Outsider, her body and soul are essentially two sides of the same thing.

Celia also explains that when she (as a sylph, she's an Outsider) dies- she'd "sort of merge back into the plane"
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html

[Sir_Leorik]

There is also a real possibility that what Sabine said was based on Sabine's assumptions about how alignments work, more than anything real.

(That's not the way I'm betting, but it is a possibility.)

I think it has more to do with how the Fiends (don't) get along normally: Devils and Demons seek to destroy each other and proclaim their brand of Evil as the only legitimate form of Evil, while the Daemons serve as mercenaries for the highest bidder, betraying their current employer when they get a better offer from the other side. Instead, Directors Lee and Cedrik use their Alignment differences in a constructive manner, and Director Nero acts as a mediator whenever Lee and Cedrik's differences might outweigh the IFCC's common interests. The three of them have literally flipped the way the Blood War works on its head. And that is a very scary thing, indeed. :smalleek:

[137beth]

Also, the IFCC seemed to not know what blackwing was staring at when he froze at the rift in azure city.

Yea, my initial assumption (which I still stand by) is that the IFCC found out about the planet in the rift from scrying on V after the splice ended. Specifically, during the conversation where Blackwing explained it. I expect they also found more information about it since then, though...

[Clistenes]

A pawn in every team? Does that implies that besides the LG, other sides of the conflict are also infiltrated?

And nice update rate here. It almost feels like someone is rushing to get the book done so before taking a well deserved vacation.

So...do they have a pawn in Tarquin's team too? That would be interesting...

Of course Sabine could originally be their pawn in Tarquin's team, and they haven't still placed a new one with Tarquin.

I kind of hope V and Sabine are forced to make a trip together, they would make a funny team.

[Gift Jeraff]

"GREENHILT!" made me think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbEfV05tJz8).


Celia also explains that when she (as a sylph, she's an Outsider) dies- she'd "sort of merge back into the plane"
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html

Though I wonder if that only applies to Outsiders from the Inner Planes. I wouldn't really expect Celia to know the details about how the Outer Planes work (although they both fall under Knowledge (The Planes)). For whatever it's worth, Lien thinks killing Qarr would send him back to Hell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), and Haley is unsure (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html).

[hamishspence]

Fiends (devils and demons, specifically), at least, have more precedent for only being killable "for real" on their home plane, in older editions, and in the Fiendish Codex books.

[Clistenes]

I'm trying this new thing where I read the whole thread before commenting. Feels... weird. So, the primary discussions are: Why is Sabine being so nice to V? Who could the pawns be on Team Evil? What is the IFCC's plan?

I say it's Jirix. He never received a message from the Dark One, but from the ICCF. Now he's building an Empire of True Evil, instead of the pseudo-Evil hippy dream of Redcloak. Children will be sacrificed on the altars of Archfiends, hundreds of thousands will die during horrid battles with their hearts full of hate, fiends will be summoned by the thousands...etc.

[Sir_Leorik]

I say it's Jirix. He never received a message from the Dark One, but from the ICCF. Now he's building an Empire of True Evil, instead of the pseudo-Evil hippy dream of Redcloak. Children will be sacrificed on the altars of Archfiends, hundreds of thousands will die during horrid battles with their hearts full of hate, fiends will be summoned by the thousands...etc.

Isn't it obvious who the IFCC would turn to if they need a mole on Team Evil? Here's a hint: :roach:

[Etheolin]

I dunno. Sort of lacks the outrage. I like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUWXjs2jPQI better.

I thought of this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjRvkPazwAI)...

[Clistenes]

Isn't it obvious who the IFCC would turn to if they need a mole on Team Evil? Here's a hint: :roach:

Too obvious.

[Lord Raziere]

And how does that in any way support the idea of them knowing about the Gates ahead of time?

If you're implying they raised a Goblin to godhood to manipulate all events around the gates starting more than thirty years ago, it's kinda foolish to think they would then not know of the Order of the Stick and their involvement.

Or, maybe they just didn't know ANYTHING until Sabine told them. Being an archfiend doesn't make you omniscient.

yes, trust the lying archfiends. I'm sure that will work out great.

look, we know that they have a phone that Tiamat herself can call, they obviously have connections with the evil gods, its not that far-fetched that if The Dark One isn't an unwitting pawn to the IFCC, then at least he could be a partner to them.

[DeadMG]

yes, trust the lying archfiends. I'm sure that will work out great.

look, we know that they have a phone that Tiamat herself can call, they obviously have connections with the evil gods, its not that far-fetched that if The Dark One isn't an unwitting pawn to the IFCC, then at least he could be a partner to them.

Yes, it really is. Principally, if the IFCC and the Dark One are in cahoots, why in hell would The Dark One lie to Redcloak?

[mhsmith]

Are we actually sure that IFCC has inflitrated ALL the groups? At this point, they have an in with V, LG belongs to them, and now Tarquin is working with LG again. That qualifies as having pawns on most teams, which may well be good enough to work (i.e. Sabine was just overstating things).

[One Skunk Todd]

I'm amazed there's such good mobile phone reception in Hell, being miles underground as it is. Presumably it's some kind of hotline :smallcool:

Apologies, that was terrible, I know!

Can you sear me now? :)

[wingnutx]

whoops, edited

[137beth]

Yes, it really is. Principally, if the IFCC and the Dark One are in cahoots, why in hell would The Dark One lie to Redcloak?

Or, more to the point, if the IFCC were actually in an alliance with the Dark One, why would the IFCC not want Team Evil to win, when "Team Evil Winning" means the Dark One getting control of the Snarl?

[Throknor]

Actually, you're wrong there.
Blah blah blah.

Nope. All that can be deduced from here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) is that Sabrine told them about V, and that's all I was talking about.

[One Skunk Todd]

Hey I just realized, rocks fell, and no one died. :)

Also, I'm in the "Nale channeling Superintendent Chalmers" camp. Or possibly Timmy's dad. Kirk just doesn't feel right to me.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I was thinking of the Dean from Futurama's Mars University.

"ROBOT HOUSE!!"

[IW Judicator]

Wait a moment...isn't Sabine eligible for a 10% finder's fee of anything she discovers that could tip the scales of cosmic balance in Evil's favor? I wonder how/if that might affect the amount of time our dear friends at the IFCC can work with...

[DaggerPen]

Don't think so. Lot of prayers can kickstart you into a deity (as evidenced by the DO and the elven pantheon), but the four pantheons were there before there was a world at all and after the first world was destroyed.

Maybe ascended deities need constant prayers to maintain their divnity, but at least the four pantheons don't seem to need prayers


Wait a moment...isn't Sabine eligible for a 10% finder's fee of anything she discovers that could tip the scales of cosmic balance in Evil's favor? I wonder how/if that might affect the amount of time our dear friends at the IFCC can work with...

... ha! Good point, but I don't think time is transferable like that, or that that's something they could have gotten away with not mentioning in the contract.

[JCAll]

I'm gonna go against the current of rampant speculation, to some rampant speculation my own. I think if the IFCC really does have a mole in Team Evil, it's very probably :xykon:

Redcloak would never betray the Plan, MitD isn't actually that evil, and everyone else is too insignificant to matter. But Xykon, he only cares about killing. Spreading pain and suffering to anyone he can for nothing but his own amusement is literally the only thing he has to live for.

Now, Xykon isn't an idiot like some back-alley warlock that sells his soul for power, that's not even real power by Xykon's definition. But if the IFCC were to approach him and explain to him the nature of the Rift and Redcloak's decades long deceptions, they probably wouldn't even have had to make a deal with him to get him to do exactly what they want. He's a very predictable sort of fellow.

That's why he had Tsukiko research the ritual, and that's why he no cares about killing the heroes, and that's why he values Redcloak's opinion even less than the thing in the shadows'. Because the IFCC were feeding him the real scoop.
/endspeculation

[Luna_Mayflower]

I feel a little sorry for Malack. I can see him as quite sad in the last pannel. After all, he killed his friend for nothing, now that the gate is gone. I mean, sure, he's a vampire now, but when Durkon is free again, I doubt he'll ever want to have anything to do with Malack again, in fact he'll very likely kill him. Now Durkon has Vamp powers, and hasn't suffered from LA... Malack's future is dull.

[Paisley]

I love how Blackwing gets a gag, too. The tiny details scattered about the comic continue to amaze me.

[IW Judicator]

... ha! Good point, but I don't think time is transferable like that, or that that's something they could have gotten away with not mentioning in the contract.

They could call it a "Sales Tax". :smallwink:

[Grey Watcher]

Hey I just realized, rocks fell, and no one died. :)

....

You, sir or madam, win. Please drive around to the second window to pick up your prize.

[deimos3428]

The older model of cell phone makes perfect sense. Sabine isn't all that bright, and she's managed to get locked into a contract. If you think cellphone contracts are bad on this plane, imagine one in Hell. She's never getting a new phone.

The MitD is probably IFCC's pawn on Team Evil. While not necessarily evil, his eyes sometimes look just like Director Lee's. Besides, you don't need to know who you're really working for to be a good pawn -- usually it's best if you don't.

[Canisius]

I still think the thing that Rich has been plotting, while the forums go on about D&D rules and Belkar's method of demise, is the fact that the gates are protecting something that none of the characters understand at this point. My prediction (and apparently I don't need to hide it under "spoiler" tags any more) is that the big reveal at the end of this book will be the secret nature of the gates, the "Snarl" and the rifts. Knowing Rich's canniness, I'm sure we'll all have 20/20 hindsight when the big reveal happens, and find spots where he's hidden clues in previous strips.

Malack is the most fascinating character in this arc, imho. Kinda like Barnabas Collins. Interesting to contrast him with the Fiends. Are they chaotic evil? They seem to have a plan. Malack is an old and wise vampire lizard - he honors his promises, and tries to explain his plans. Even though his plans include sacrificing the entire OOTS planet to Nergal. Despite hiding his vampiric nature to Durkon (couldn't Durkon have spotted the ruse? Don't know D&D rules that well), he was a pleasant companion.

Those are always the best villains, though. Ones who you start to sympathize with until they show their fangs.

(btw - just ordered "SOD". I didn't realize there was a lot of backstory that hasn't been included in the online comic.)

[Math_Mage]

I'm gonna go against the current of rampant speculation, to some rampant speculation my own. I think if the IFCC really does have a mole in Team Evil, it's very probably :xykon:

Redcloak would never betray the Plan, MitD isn't actually that evil, and everyone else is too insignificant to matter. But Xykon, he only cares about killing. Spreading pain and suffering to anyone he can for nothing but his own amusement is literally the only thing he has to live for.

Now, Xykon isn't an idiot like some back-alley warlock that sells his soul for power, that's not even real power by Xykon's definition. But if the IFCC were to approach him and explain to him the nature of the Rift and Redcloak's decades long deceptions, they probably wouldn't even have had to make a deal with him to get him to do exactly what they want. He's a very predictable sort of fellow.

That's why he had Tsukiko research the ritual, and that's why he no cares about killing the heroes, and that's why he values Redcloak's opinion even less than the thing in the shadows'. Because the IFCC were feeding him the real scoop.
/endspeculation
The IFCC doesn't know about Redcloak's deception. If Xykon learned of it, he would have no reason to stick around. There are plenty of good canonical reasons for Xykon to ignore Redcloak's advice. Sorry, I'm not seeing this one.

[Vaarsuvius-Mage]

My birthday was yesterday, so this strip is like a late birthday present for me! Thank you so much Giant!!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Tock Zipporah]

Nope. All that can be deduced from here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) is that Sabrine told them about V, and that's all I was talking about.

Which in no way disproves a single thing I said.

[davidbofinger]

Shatner's "Khan!" is a response to loss of a loved one, it's the way Nale might say it if Roy destroyed Sabine. What's happening in #903 is Nale, who thinks himself smart, being infuriated by being outsmarted by his enemy. It's more like Colonel Klink shouting, "Hogan!"

[zimmerwald1915]

Shatner's "Khan!" is a response to loss of a loved one
No it isn't. Kirk hasn't lost any loved ones at that point in the film. His "Khan" is a misdirection ploy, an attempt to make Khan believe he, Kirk, has stopped being able to think rationally.

[davidbofinger]

I do not understand Sabine's infatuation with Nale, at all. I mean, it was one thing when she was just assigned to him and it was a job with 'benefits', but actually being in love with this shallow, egotistical, second-string villain who probably has less time left to live than Belkar does? Girl, you can do so much better.

Haley says she loves Elan, despite the fact he's dumb, because he makes her a better person by his example. (IMO, this is evidence for Haley drifting from True Neutral toward Neutral Good.) Perhaps Sabine loves Nale because, despite being dumb, he makes her a more evil person?

Then again it's an open question how strong her feelings for Nale are. She was assigned to the job, after all, and pretending to love someone is her job.

[Math_Mage]

Which in no way disproves a single thing I said.
Well, here's a counter if you want one.

Your argument that the comic shows the IFCC didn't know about the Gates presumes that what Sabine thinks is new information is actually new--that is, that the IFCC has revealed their whole hand to Sabine. This is implausible. Therefore the IFCC may or may not have known about the Gates before Sabine told them.

I assume you further believe the IFCC can't have known about the Gates before TDO's ascension without knowing about the planet in the Rift. But aside from V and the Order, no one is shown to know about the planet in the Rift, even the gods who created the Snarl in the first place. So there's no reason to believe the IFCC would have to know about the planet in the Rift.

Finally, keep in mind that you are evaluating a proposal that was described by its creator as 'an insane theory'. Pointing out that it is implausible isn't the same as disagreeing, because no one was claiming that it was a likely theory. Where you are clearly in disagreement with the theory's creator is when you say it's impossible because the IFCC can't have known about the Gates from the beginning, and that is where I (and others) have in turn disagreed with you.

[gooddragon1]

So the gate was in the greenhilt. Of course.

[Scifne]

"When you've got pawns on every team, it's easy to fix the game"



I kind of hope the Empress of Blood turns out to be one of their agents, just to annoy Tarquin.

[Lord Raziere]

Yes, it really is. Principally, if the IFCC and the Dark One are in cahoots, why in hell would The Dark One lie to Redcloak?

you really don't get the whole "evil" thing don't you? that and- whoever said he lied? as far as I remember, we never got a confirmation of where the gate ritual actually came from or if the Dark One created it.

Edit:

The IFCC doesn't know about Redcloak's deception.

oh what no.

we never got any confirmation about that.

they are treating Xykon just like Redcloak is treating Xykon: an unknowingly predictable piece in this metaphorical game of chess. they are clearly on a whole deeper level of manipulation here, and you can't properly manipulate people with information about them. for this kind of master-mindery, they got to know all of the pieces in play and how they move. lacking info on some people- especially an important high-level evil cleric- would be a big oversight on their part.

but really? we don't know anything. the IFCC is genre-savvy to not spell out their plans like idiots so, all I can really say is that the theories I have are the most plausible to me is alls.

[DolGrenn]

Anybody else think that Sabine's explanation of how the fiends work together is just exposition so that V knows which one to get rid of in order to bring them all down? No? Just me? :smallwink:

I don't know, I guess that I'm just thinking in some sort of mafia-like frame of mind. You know, take out the guy who everybody likes in a rival organization so that they all turn on each other and you don't have to do any fighting at all; you just have to sit back and watch them take each other out? I suppose V doesn't have the power to do anything like that now that the gag is on anyway, though. :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

Too obvious.

They have to pay for all those props and rimshots somehow! :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

yes, trust the lying archfiends. I'm sure that will work out great.

look, we know that they have a phone that Tiamat herself can call, they obviously have connections with the evil gods, its not that far-fetched that if The Dark One isn't an unwitting pawn to the IFCC, then at least he could be a partner to them.

You did see that Tiamat scorched, froze, poisoned, melted and electrocuted Director Lee over the phone, right? They're Archfiends, which means that they rank lower on the totem pole than even a lesser god, let alone a major member of the Western Pantheon, and goddess of Evil Dragons. They're significantly below even the Dark One's weight class. Besides, the Dark One already has his prophet on the case, why does he need three untrustworthy individuals like the IFCC directors? Like you said, who'd trust a trio of Archfiends, especially ones from groups normally opposed to the others.

[Sir_Leorik]

"When you've got pawns on every team, it's easy to fix the game"



I kind of hope the Empress of Blood turns out to be one of their agents, just to annoy Tarquin.

No, their agent was Nale, and it merely vexed Tarquin.

[Sir_Leorik]

Are we actually sure that IFCC has inflitrated ALL the groups? At this point, they have an in with V, LG belongs to them, and now Tarquin is working with LG again. That qualifies as having pawns on most teams, which may well be good enough to work (i.e. Sabine was just overstating things).

They must have either placed moles or pawns (or both) into all nine sides by now.
:roach: "Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html)

EDIT: Director Lee sent Sabine (and someone else, since Sabine uses the plural "us") to infiltrate Tarquin's "side" and she recruited Nale and convinced him to stage a coup. It failed, but it encouraged Nale to seek out Elan and an artifact that could help usurp Tarquin's place (the "Talisman of Dorukan"). That is a simple maneuver that paid untold dividends when Sabine informed the IFCC directors about the Gates.

[Ham Sammich]

Nale's face is priceless.
GREENHILT!!!!

[Lombard]

lol.. clink clink.. I love these guys..

Nale's Braveheart moment ftw :smallamused:

[LuisDantas]

A mole in Team Evil?

If there is one, my money is in the MitD.

That might connect to his seemingly supressed memories, particularly of the Astral Plane, as well as with his lack of capacity of perceiving the Gates.

[JavaScribe]

Doesn't look like Malack's too disappointed about the Gate. How much longer is Nale likely to live?

[David Argall]

Doesn't look like Malack's too disappointed about the Gate. How much longer is Nale likely to live?

Probably at least another book. The presumptive scene will go...
Malach: Time to kill Nale.
Nale: There is still another gate, and I have the in with whoever wants to use it [Which he might if the fiends have figured out the ritual, which is not impossible.]
Tarquin: Pack you winter clothing.

[Throknor]

Which in no way disproves a single thing I said.

Not sure how we got there, but I wasn't trying to. I was only trying to show that all the fiends said was they learned of V through one of their agents; technically I don't even think they specified Sabine. There is no evidence one way or another about what they know about the rifts, gates and the snarl, or when they learned whatever.

Other than knowing before mentioning the gates to Qarr, that is. They specifically mention both that there were once five gates and were then only two left. All we can conclude for certain is they knew before that. We have no evidence they didn't know before Sabine; she may be just one of many spies watching for others to learn what they already knew.

And I can give a "well-reasoned" argument showing 1=2, but it isn't logically sound.

[Edit - Fixed Sabine spelling.]

[Domino Quartz]

Haley says she loves Elan, despite the fact he's dumb, because he makes her a better person by his example. (IMO, this is evidence for Haley drifting from True Neutral toward Neutral Good.)
Haley is Chaotic, and I'm pretty sure she's already Good.

[David Argall]

you realise that even if V does get arroused he has no flesh in which to act on said arrousal?

hes only a soul Sabine cant actually touch him
The Hells, and the other planes for that matter are just full of souls who very much get touched by the residents. In the Hells, they are torturing those souls, and thus touching them. So V is fully touchable. And since Sabine is really just a promoted soul [as are all the devils and demons] she is fully able to touch and be touched.
It will be a little more tricky for either side to get knocked up, but just as Sabine acquires a physical body every time she goes to the material plane, her, or V's, child would too and the main problem here is that of writer disinterest in such a theme.

[Forikroder]

Probably at least another book. The presumptive scene will go...
Malach: Time to kill Nale.
Nale: There is still another gate, and I have the in with whoever wants to use it [Which he might if the fiends have figured out the ritual, which is not impossible.]
Tarquin: Pack you winter clothing.

Tarquin would have to give up his presence on the Continent to do so, Malack was willing to join him in this day trip but give up the empire of blood, to go on a long journey into enemy lands will take alot more then "bussiness malack" to convince him