Q: nuovo incantesimo: eterna giovinezza

[Wonder]

Ciao, mi piacerebbe creare un nuovo incantesimo come suggerito nel MdG [D&D 3.5] per il mago, lo scopo del mio personaggio è l'eterna giovinezza e volevo chiedere secondo voi se l'incantesimo che ho pensato dovrebbe richiedere uno slot diverso o se non è proprio adatto. Visto che l'argomento (creare nuovi incantesimi) è delicato l'opinione dei frequentatori del forum sarà sicuramente di aiuto.

Patto di sangue
Livello incantesimo: Mag 4, VSM, Negromanzia
Tempo di lancio: 1 ora
Bersaglio: incantatore
Componente materiale: Un cucciolo di mammifero vivo ( max due mesi )
Durata: Permanente

L'incantatore sacrifica la vitalità del cucciolo ringiovanendo di un mese. L'effetto non altera le memorie o le conoscenze dell'individuo in alcun modo ma solamente l'età del corpo, se si attraversa una soglia di età si eliminano le penalità alle caratteristiche dovute alla vecchiaia ma vengono mantenuti inalterati i bonus ( la saggezza acquisita con l'età non viene persa... ).

L'idea è di ripetere l'incantesimo più volte ringiovanendo sempre più, la parte relativa alle statistiche l'ho aggiunta in un secondo momento, per me è secondaria ma mi sembrava azzeccata. Un altra versione altrettanto macabra sarebbe di limitare come componente materiale una femmina di mammifero fertile o di ringiovanire di una quantità di tempo legata all'età che quella creatura avrebbe potuto raggiungere. Grazie per l'aiuto, vi prego di scrivere liberamente qualunque opinione, anche solo un SI/NO

[Jan Mattys]

Il problema principale che vedo io è che l'eterna giovinezza è una cosa che dovrebbe richiedere molto più sforzo di così. Non te la cavi con un incantesimo di 4 livello secondo me.

Di fatto l'incantesimo secondo le tue specifiche richiederebbe l'uccisione di 12 cuccioli all'anno, e mezza giornata per ottenere l'immortalità. Mi sembra un po' troppo semplice, e la fatica non commisurata a quanto ottieni.

E in ogni caso, se lanci questo incantesimo più di un paio di volte aspettati una fila quasi ininterrotta di questi
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Marut
davanti alla tua porta. In fila come alle poste :smallbiggrin:

[Crasical]

No.
Jan is right. A 4th level spell for immortality is too good, even if it requires living animal sacrifice and to be cast repeatedly.

Consider the Reincarnate spell, which can be used to avoid aging by reincarnating to young adult bodies. You need 1000g and lose a level with each casting. The spell you designed spell is closer to True Resurrection than Reincarnate, I think.

[Cheiromancer]

When was the last time an adventurer died of old age?

And given the existence of the Elan race, it is not like immortality in the D&D universe is that difficult (see also: Necropolitan template). Or reincarnation every few decades.

I see this as a harmless 'fluff' spell.

[BowStreetRunner]

The 3rd level of the Ruathar prestige class increases your racial life span and the lower limit of each of your age categories by 50%. There are at least a dozen classes (such as Monk, Druid, Contemplative or Holt Warden) that grant the Timeless Body class feature. None of these is as powerful in the long run as the spell you are suggesting. I would have to agree that this is a much higher effect than 4th level.

The earliest you can get the age increase from Ruathar is normally going to be about ECL 8. Timeless Body you could probably get at about ECL 10 from Tatooed Monk. The first allows you to live longer, the second to avoid age penalties, but neither to completely prevent death from old age. A 4th level spell is normally available at ECL 8 and 5th at ECL 10, so just from this comparison alone I would say that nothing less than a 6th level spell (ECL 12) would be possible.

However, considering the built-in drawbacks of this spell are so minor, I would probably say even 6th level is too low.

[ahenobarbi]

The 3rd level of the Ruathar prestige class increases your racial life span and the lower limit of each of your age categories by 50%. There are at least a dozen classes (such as Monk, Druid, Contemplative or Holt Warden) that grant the Timeless Body class feature. None of these is as powerful in the long run as the spell you are suggesting. I would have to agree that this is a much higher effect than 4th level.

Please note that timeless body doesn't increase your lifespan. It merely removes aging penalties and appearance effects.

[karkus]

Livello incantesimo: Mag 8 è meglio.

[Boci]

Bookie ova Villanouse Darknisss-e pageo 106, Stealio Lifo.

(Sorry, but if you are going to post a foreign thread on an English speaking forume, I am going to make fun of it for not being in English)

[BowStreetRunner]

Please note that timeless body doesn't increase your lifespan. It merely removes aging penalties and appearance effects.
There are two separate abilities mentioned in my post. Ruathar 3 (available at about ECL 8) increases your lifespan. Timeless Body (available at about ECL 10 through Tatooed Monk) removes aging penalties. The point I was making is that neither is as powerful as the effect of this suggested spell. So this spell should probably be available much later than either of these abilities.

Book of Vile Darkness-page 106, Steal Life.
Here is another example of a less powerful effect, this time in an 8th level spell. Note the Evil descriptor, location component, and the fact the spell requires a humanoid. Not to mention it only reduces the caster's age if cast on the night of a full moon and then only 1 week per ability point drained.

[Cheiromancer]

Bookie ova Villanouse Darknisss-e pageo 106, Stealio Lifo.

(Sorry, but if you are going to post a foreign thread on an English speaking forume, I am going to make fun of it for not being in English)

I don't think Steal Life is really worth it as an 8th level spell. And while you could use Steal Life offensively, it is very inefficient. Still, the consensus seems to be that the spell is too much for 4th level.

[Boci]

I don't think Steal Life is really worth it as an 8th level spell.

Generally though if a spell achieves something otherwise impossible, its worth it reguardless of the level. Steal life is a situational spell, and certainly not a combat one, but barring some easier way to reverse age, its still worth it simply because it does something unique.


Here is another example of a less powerful effect, this time in an 8th level spell. Note the Evil descriptor, location component, and the fact the spell requires a humanoid. Not to mention it only reduces the caster's age if cast on the night of a full moon and then only 1 week per ability point drained.

You quoted me wrong. I put effort into using such a lazyily offensive templated stereotype of a foreign language.

[BowStreetRunner]

You quoted me wrong. I put effort into using such a lazily offensive templated stereotype of a foreign language.

Sorry, that's how the translation software rendered it when I ran it through the matrix. At least I went back and restored your forum name to the way you have it. The translator apparently thought it was a conjugated form of bocciare from Italian.

[Boci]

Sorry, that's how the translation software rendered it when I ran it through the matrix. At least I went back and restored your forum name to the way you have it. The translator apparently thought it was a conjugated form of bocciare from Italian.

So there's some software that though I was speaking an actual language there, and managed to correctly translate it? I'm not sure whether to facepalm or be impressed :smallbiggrin:

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't believe this has been linked in this thread...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0

Has it?

[Rubik]

A psychoactive skin of proteus (in the SRD) could keep you permanently in a young adult body via Metamorphosis, a 4th level psionic power. So long as you updated your body periodically, you should never die of old age. Not a bad deal for 84,000 gp, and it has so many other uses it's insane.

Also, warforged and elan are both immortal already, and there's a single feat (Wedded to History) that makes you ageless, which is worth 3,000 gp (for the Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole magical location in Complete Scoundrel) plus a single iteration of the Dark Chaos feat shuffle for 2,400 gp and 500 xp could get that for you easily enough.

There's also Polymorph Any Object, Mind Switch, and any number of other ways to do this, as well.

It's not difficult to become immortal, honestly.

[edit] Google Translator makes a real hackjob of translating this to Italian, as far as I can tell. Anyone want to do so manually?

[T.G. Oskar]

Basically, the OP is asking if the 'brewed spell (a permanent Necromancy spell that sacrifices a creature to remove one month of age per casting) is on the right spell level (4th level) or if it's appropriate.

The spell removes one month of age (as far as I can reckon), removing physical age penalties but keeping mental bonuses if the character has reached middle age, old, or venerable. OP says the intention is to cast the spell several times to rejuvenate even further, and that there could be different, more macabre versions that...use a different material component or rejuvenating the character based on what the material component could have lived.

The OP asks for an opinion, believing that the idea of creating new spells is a delicate matter; hence, asking for the opinion of the forums on the matter.

IMO, it's too low for what it offers. A 4th level spell can be pretty potent, but it can't really kill a character unless it offers two saves at least (Phantasmal Killer, for example). Slay Living is a 5th level spell, and it only works on one character. Death Knell appears pretty early, but a) is a Cleric spell and b) requires the character to be dying in order to work. This spell not just slays a creature without granting a save (regardless of what the material component is, it still technically can be granted a Fortitude save), it essentially grants you a large boon. It's also missing the [Evil] tag, as not all necromancy is inherently evil (but this one goes right on the Book of Vile Darkness). If the OP's intention is to work it as a Wizard spell, it has to offer at least a Fortitude save to consider it as a "regular" spell, and even then it can't be lower than a Finger of Death spell (7th level). However, this falls right into an Epic spell, because the only other thing that can remove age from a character is a bonafide Wish or Miracle spell.

One final tip: being Italian, it's easier to run it via Google Translate if the target language is similar, such as Spanish or Portuguese. Might not help much, but it's similar with other languages (such as translating from German to Dutch, Norwegian, Danish or Swedish, or even German -> English). Running it from Italian to Spanish made it much easier to understand.

[Novawurmson]

Casts tongues.

Thanks XD.

[Jack_Simth]

Still, the consensus seems to be that the spell is too much for 4th level.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that there's too much variation on opinions in this thread for it to really be called a consensus.

Really, though, the spell level required depends on the specific campaign. If the game isn't going to run through about 10+ years of IC time, the spell isn't going to be anything more than flavour... provided, of course, that the DM does not permit someone to have cast it a huge number of times off-screen prior to game start to have a cheap +3 to all mental attributes without the physical penalties (Mind you, as a Permanent spell, it doesn't actually work (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects), but I'm assuming the intent is for it to be self-stacking, so am ignoring that little rule). If this is a 'standard' campaign where you go from level 1-20 in the space of maybe a year or two IC, it really does not matter; a spell that has no mechanical impact on the game might as well be a cantrip. If this is a game of kingdoms, generational in scope, where a human may well have died of old age five or six times before reaching the end of the campaign... then the requirements (level, components, descriptors, drawbacks, etcetera) for the spell depend on what flavour is desired at the gaming table. You want it dark and gritty, with immortality being difficult to gain and costly in maintenance? Then you want something like Steal Life from The Book of Vile Darkness (which pretty much kills someone to make the caster a year younger, takes a while to pull off, and has some annoying requirements for when and where you can get the useful effect... and is a high level spell). If you want immortality to be common and well thought of, then you want something that doesn't require great sacrifice and is relatively easy.

So... it depends on the gaming table, really.

[Boci]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that there's too much variation on opinions in this thread for it to really be called a consensus.

Really, though, the spell level required depends on the specific campaign. If the game isn't going to run through about 10+ years of IC time, the spell isn't going to be anything more than flavour... provided, of course, that the DM does not permit someone to have cast it a huge number of times off-screen prior to game start to have a cheap +3 to all mental attributes without the physical penalties (Mind you, as a Permanent spell, it doesn't actually work (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#combiningMagicalEffects), but I'm assuming the intent is for it to be self-stacking, so am ignoring that little rule). If this is a 'standard' campaign where you go from level 1-20 in the space of maybe a year or two IC, it really does not matter; a spell that has no mechanical impact on the game might as well be a cantrip. If this is a game of kingdoms, generational in scope, where a human may well have died of old age five or six times before reaching the end of the campaign... then the requirements (level, components, descriptors, drawbacks, etcetera) for the spell depend on what flavour is desired at the gaming table. You want it dark and gritty, with immortality being difficult to gain and costly in maintenance? Then you want something like Steal Life from The Book of Vile Darkness (which pretty much kills someone to make the caster a year younger, takes a while to pull off, and has some annoying requirements for when and where you can get the useful effect... and is a high level spell). If you want immortality to be common and well thought of, then you want something that doesn't require great sacrifice and is relatively easy.

So... it depends on the gaming table, really.

True, but for the sake of versimultitude I'd state it as if it were going to be a centuary long chronicle, and then talk to a player about somehow reducing the cost if they want one in a more standard game.

[Ninja_Grand]

Just heads up, I think non eng threads are not allowed. Giving you a waring before the mods lock this.


Just Google translate it, and say so. Gitp will be fine with that.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please post in English only. If the OP would like to restart this thread in English, that's fine.