The "Tales of" Series

[Sylthia]

I didn't see any thread for the "Tales of" series, so here it is. Needless to say, this thread will likely contain spoilers.

I just finished Tales of Graces f and am starting the second playthrough. I need to give it time to reflect, but I think it's my new favorite in the series. Xillia comes out soon and I got a PS3 pretty much for these two games.

Games I've played...
Phantasia
Symphonia
Symphonia 2
Legendia
Abyss
Vesperia
Graces f

[A Rainy Knight]

How is Tales of Vesperia? I recently took notice of it after seeing its characters in Project X Zone, and I'm looking for some good JRPGs for the summer. Would it be a good place to start for someone who's never played a Tales game?

[Sylthia]

How is Tales of Vesperia? I recently took notice of it after seeing its characters in Project X Zone, and I'm looking for some good JRPGs for the summer. Would it be a good place to start for someone who's never played a Tales game?

Tales of Vesperia is quite fun. All Tales games follow a real time battle system rather than turn based like most RPGs. The characters in ToV are all great, except some don't like Karol, although not me included. The story is great, although the last third seemed kinda thrown together. ToV would definitely give you an idea of how you like the series as a whole, especially the 3D games.

[Zevox]

How is Tales of Vesperia? I recently took notice of it after seeing its characters in Project X Zone, and I'm looking for some good JRPGs for the summer. Would it be a good place to start for someone who's never played a Tales game?
It's fantastic. Still probably my favorite game of this console generation, really. Great characters and story, very fun battles. I'd highly recommend it.

Anyway, I haven't played quite as many as you Rezkeshdadesh. My favorites are Vesperia and Abyss (pretty much tied in my view), and I've also played Symphonia, Symphonia 2, and Graces F. I was kind of disappointed with Graces F story-wise, albeit partially because I was coming into after having Vesperia and Abyss as the last two in the series I'd played, and hoping it would be just as great as those. Still good though, and I like what it did with the gameplay mechanics. Symphonia I have a lot of love for as well. Symphonia 2, not so much - it obviously only exists to cash in on Symphonia's popularity.

I've got Xillia on pre-order already too, and am looking forward to that. We got confirmation that Xillia 2 will be localized next year recently too, so things are finally looking up for the series outside Japan. Maybe we won't have to wait two years longer than them to get the next one.

[Sylthia]

Graces main story was a bit meh, but I absolutely loved the characters and found most of them relatable. That with the battle system put it over the top. Before Graces, I think Vesperia was my favorite. I've yet to play a bad Tales game. Even ToS2 was okay, it just paled in comparison to other games.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I freaking love the tales series! Vesperia has one of the weaker plots in my opinion but some excellent characters. Abyss has very strong character growth and plot, but be warned--the story is dark. Symphonia is great, and you should play Phantasia afterwords for Spot The Continuities. I'm playing Graces F now and cannot wait for Xillia!

[Airk]

Ah good, it's time for the annual "Airk argues with Zevox about Tales of Vesperia" thread. ;P

I have mixed feelings about the Tales series. I picked up Tales of the Abyss on a whim during the late PS2 era. Went it with no expectations, and it blew me away, becoming my favorite JRPG ever. It pretty much did everything right in my book, and any problems it has are basically attributable to it being a PS2 game and therefore a little long-in-the-tooth at this point. Characters, story, and theme all came together very nicely, and combat was tons of fun.

I was really excited for Tales of Vesperia. The preview videos looked gorgeous. The art was great. The voice cast was very strong. The game itself...was....eh. It wasn't BAD, but it oozes wasted potential and the entire "third act" of the game is basically the designers throwing their hands up in the air and saying "Can't deal with this theme anymore, screwit, fetch quests and final battle thinly connected to the plot! GO AND SAVE THE CITYWORLD!" It has nothing on Abyss in terms of theme and plot, suffers from one character that I found completely intolerable (Though I confess, dressing him in a ridiculous outfit, pipe and mustache DID help!) and made a number of system changes that encouraged annoying grinding and generally made combat less fun for me. So... it's not a terrible place to start. Actually, starting with it will do a better job of equipping you with reasonable expectations for other games in the series than starting with Abyss will. ;)

Graces was...well, it inspired mixed feelings. It lacked Vesperia's absolutely gorgeous visuals - which is to be expected from a Wii port, I suppose - and the story and cast were nothing to write home about. (While there were no super annoying characters, there was only one cast member I could bring myself to actually care about.) But the battle system is SO GOOD. Holy crap. It's SUPER SMART. Though it still suffers from the one major issue that the Tales battle system is probably always going to have - battles at low levels are boring. I know they need to start you off slow and not overload you with crap, but the amount of time it takes to get enough abilities for battles to start being interesting is much longer than IMHO it should be.

I haven't played any of the Pre-Abyss entries in the series. I'll probably pick up the HD Symphonia Double-pack thing when it comes out over here next year.

I am looking forward to ToX quite a bit though; It's gorgeous (although we saw how that worked out for Vesperia. :P) and, most importantly, someone I know and trust, whose opinions align with me on these games has played it in Japanese already and loves it, so...yeah. High hopes.

[Sylthia]

MAJOR SPOILERS, if you haven't played Vesperia yet, don't read. Disclaimer, I loved ToV and is toward the top of my list for favorites in the series.

I agree that the plot after the fight with Alexai seemed a bit thrown together. I would have taken it a different direction. Granted I haven't played the PS3 Japan-only port, so I don't know if they fixed this.

They could have still had the saving the world as always, but they could have played more with the Yuri's chaos vs Flynn's lawfulness justice. Maybe Yuri goes vigilante one too many times (it would even be rule of three), and Flynn finally believes that he must bring his old friend to justice. The real Yuri vs Flynn fight came out of nowhere and felt a bit unfullfilling story-wise. Flynn doesn't need to be the final boss, but at least go somewhere with that theme that has been building all game. The subplot with Sodia went nowhere after she stabbed Yuri.

Actually maybe everything after Yuri gets stabbed and falls into the ocean is just some dream of his in the seconds before he dies. It would explain a lot.

[Airk]

MAJOR SPOILERS, if you haven't played Vesperia yet, don't read. Disclaimer, I loved ToV and is toward the top of my list for favorites in the series.


By all reports, the PS3 version doesn't "fix" anything. The parts of the game that are good are still good and the parts of the game that are dumb are still dumb, there's just more of it. And apparently playable Flynn doesn't really change anything either.

But anyway, yeah. I basically have pretty much the same opinion as you except that I'm WAY less forgiving. I don't see how a game that makes that big of a hash of its plot and theme for that much of a portion of its playtime can be in any way considered "top tier" material. There was SO MUCH cool stuff they could've done, and didn't. As a result, I feel like overall their attempt for a game about "your own brand of Justice" is basically a failure because they weren't willing to step up and make it real and meaningful.

Also, Yuri "I never suffer consequences for my actions" Lowell doesn't impress me anywhere near as much as he seems to impress most people.

So uh, I guess of the three games I've played in the series, it's:

Abyss > Vesperia=Graces F. (Both games had their strong points, but could have been a lot better. Also, combat in Graces was awesome, while combat in Vesperia was kindof a drag.)

[CoffeeIncluded]

I honestly prefer the Vesperia combat system, simply because I run out of CC so quickly in Graces, and them I'm dead weight until I can get enough CC back.

[Zevox]

Ah good, it's time for the annual "Airk argues with Zevox about Tales of Vesperia" thread. ;P
Nah, no need. We've had that discussion before. We disagree, and neither of us can convince the other of much. Might as well just agree to disagree.


(While there were no super annoying characters, there was only one cast member I could bring myself to actually care about.)
Out of curiosity, which one was that?

[Just_Ice]

How is Tales of Vesperia? I recently took notice of it after seeing its characters in Project X Zone, and I'm looking for some good JRPGs for the summer. Would it be a good place to start for someone who's never played a Tales game?

It's a great place to start, but it's pretty hard at parts. The last third of the story, as mentioned before, is not very good at all; the fighting in the last third is awesome, though.

The main character is pretty cool and does interesting things for a JRPG main but they kind of drop his punishment and the consequences for his actions

[Mattarias, King.]

The Tales series is so good! *-*


Beat Symphonia like 7 times (I'm not kidding). Beat Legendia... Honestly don't remember it very well. I might be one of the few people who actually liked Symphonia 2, Tried playing Phantasia forever ago, got myself stuck in an area WAAAYYYY above my level, gave up on that, haven't been able to play since (Not having a GBA slot in the new 3DS suuucks), Aaaand now I'm playing through Abyss. Got pretty far years ago, but I had since gave up on it. Interest rekindled when mt friends wanted me to DM a Tales based D&D campaign, so I restarted.


(...Hoooo, the rambling. o_o; )

[Bodkins Odds]

Well, you could always try getting a hold of the Playstation version. The only benefit to the GBA version was the hilariously bad voice acting (no seriously, everyone should try it at least once). Otherwise it suffered from severe slowdown and a few other issues.

[Sylthia]

I honestly prefer the Vesperia combat system, simply because I run out of CC so quickly in Graces, and them I'm dead weight until I can get enough CC back.

For what it is worth, the bonus CC from new game+ helps a ton.

[Lord Raziere]

this reminds me.

I should REALLY get around to beating the final dungeon of Symphonia 2.

will probably by doing some leveling first.

after that…probably thinking about someday in the distant future, getting Tales of the Abyss. cause dark + good plot + good characters is pretty much what I'm always attracted to.

[Tengu_temp]

As someone who only played (and loved) Tales of Phantasia for the SNES, I always wondered which Tales game for the PS2 or PS3 is the best.

[Shekinah]

Ooh, a Tales thread!

I started off with the Abyss. I was handed it by someone and told that since I have a PS2, I should give it a try.

Well, I was skeptical at first. The story was good to be sure, but it took me a bit to get used to the combat. Once I got the hang of it, though, I was hooked. Loved the game, still do, and it's in my top 5 favorite games of all time.

Symphonia was meh. The story was good, though I wish it went further with certain plot points. The characters were very much hit and miss for me (although there are characters in the Abyss I can't stand either). It's good, but not great.

Legendia was even harder to get used to, especially since the story was kind of lacking. The characters really grew on me (except for the two mains). And the music is just fantastic. Really worth mentioning, and I need to hunt down the OST.

Graces f is probably also on my top 5 favorites now. The story could use some work, but the characters are amazing. I prefer CC over TP so I don't have to spend a bunch of money on gels. If you're lacking in CC, I recommend grinding for the titles that give bonuses to it. As someone who played Cheria alongside someone, I could only use Resurrection about... oh, three times in the whole game?

Vesperia is good and I like it, but as far as replaying it over and over again, I might end up passing. Partly because Xbox 360 hates me and hates carpet, and partly because the third act really drops the rating on this game. The characters are hilarious and pretty good in my opinion (even Karol), although I hear a lot of negativity surrounding Patty in the PS3 version. Haven't played it, but I can buy that she's not that good...

Also, Ristelle for the win!

[Illieas]

As someone who only played (and loved) Tales of Phantasia for the SNES, I always wondered which Tales game for the PS2 or PS3 is the best.

I haven't played it since Jrpgs were a late phase thing for me. to give you an idea FFXII was my first FF. Symphonia my first tales.

General consensus is tales of symphonia is the best on the PS2 PS3 era. But really PS2 PS3 there have been only four western releases. tales of symphonia, tales of legendia, Tales of vesperia, tales of graces.

[Ishikar]

I think you forgot Tales of the Abyss (with a 3DS remake) that came out on the PS2. I'd have to say that Symphonia was better then Legendia but I haven't finished Abyss yet to fully compare to Symphonia :smalleek:. As it stands now though I think I'd lean towards Abyss being a little better just because Jade snark is just that hilarious. Tear also makes a bit more sympathetic female lead than Collette does because I seem to recall thinking of Collette as a bit too passive and was more interested in some of the Sheena interactions for her much more central to the plot role once you could freely hop between worlds.

I know it's probably not a BIG spoiler for Symphonia but better safe than sorry.

[Sylthia]

Ooh, a Tales thread!

I started off with the Abyss. I was handed it by someone and told that since I have a PS2, I should give it a try.

Well, I was skeptical at first. The story was good to be sure, but it took me a bit to get used to the combat. Once I got the hang of it, though, I was hooked. Loved the game, still do, and it's in my top 5 favorite games of all time.

Symphonia was meh. The story was good, though I wish it went further with certain plot points. The characters were very much hit and miss for me (although there are characters in the Abyss I can't stand either). It's good, but not great.

Legendia was even harder to get used to, especially since the story was kind of lacking. The characters really grew on me (except for the two mains). And the music is just fantastic. Really worth mentioning, and I need to hunt down the OST.

Graces f is probably also on my top 5 favorites now. The story could use some work, but the characters are amazing. I prefer CC over TP so I don't have to spend a bunch of money on gels. If you're lacking in CC, I recommend grinding for the titles that give bonuses to it. As someone who played Cheria alongside someone, I could only use Resurrection about... oh, three times in the whole game?

Vesperia is good and I like it, but as far as replaying it over and over again, I might end up passing. Partly because Xbox 360 hates me and hates carpet, and partly because the third act really drops the rating on this game. The characters are hilarious and pretty good in my opinion (even Karol), although I hear a lot of negativity surrounding Patty in the PS3 version. Haven't played it, but I can buy that she's not that good...

Also, Ristelle for the win!

That someone wouldn't be me would it? I forgot to mention we have Abyss for the 3DS as well. Also, I would recommend playing with others in multiplayer if possible. I've plated every game that had multiplayer available with my cousins and now my wife and it's loads of fun. It also helps since the AI can be a bit dumb at times.

I remember one time my cousin got mad at me because I didn't help him with the wind temple boss on ToS.

[Airk]

I honestly prefer the Vesperia combat system, simply because I run out of CC so quickly in Graces, and them I'm dead weight until I can get enough CC back.

That's....kindof the point. You can't just attack all the time. It forces you to make decisions instead of just eating another lemon gel.


Nah, no need. We've had that discussion before. We disagree, and neither of us can convince the other of much. Might as well just agree to disagree.

Yeah, I was mostly joking. Besides, it looks like everyone in this thread agrees with me about the flaws, if not necessarily the severity.


Out of curiosity, which one was that?

Sophie, actually. I could pretty much take or leave the rest of the cast, but she really grew on me.


after that…probably thinking about someday in the distant future, getting Tales of the Abyss. cause dark + good plot + good characters is pretty much what I'm always attracted to.

Dark?


I always wondered which Tales game for the PS2 or PS3 is the best.

I have to disagree with Illieas here - I don't think Symphonia is the winner of the PS2/PS3 era Tales; By all reports, it was an excellent game for its time, but hasn't stood the test of time as well as it could have (one of these reasons, as Ishikar mentioned, is that Colette is...so passive as to be barely a character.) I think Abyss takes this title pretty handily. But in the end, the only games in the series I'd actually suggest anyone be WARY of getting into are Symphonia 2 and Legendia, both of which apparently have fairly significant issues.

Edit: Oh. And as Rezkeshdadesh, these games are ALL (ALL OF THEM. Well, except for Abyss 3DS for obvious reasons) significantly MORE fun when played multiplayer. :)

[Shekinah]

That someone wouldn't be me would it? I forgot to mention we have Abyss for the 3DS as well. Also, I would recommend playing with others in multiplayer if possible. I've plated every game that had multiplayer available with my cousins and now my wife and it's loads of fun. It also helps since the AI can be a bit dumb at times.

I remember one time my cousin got mad at me because I didn't help him with the wind temple boss on ToS.

How did you guess it was you?

[Sylthia]

How did you guess it was you?

Call it a hunch.

Also, to newcomers to the Tales series, watch the skits. A lot of the character development and best scenes in the game are in there.

[Airk]

Also, to newcomers to the Tales series, watch the skits. A lot of the character development and best scenes in the game are in there.

Why would you ever NOT watch the skits? (Though I do wish they spaced them out a little better sometimes, it's annoying to do something and then get like 3-4 skits). I mean, if there is something gamers are trained to do, it's push a button when a prompt about it pops up on screen. :P

[Bodkins Odds]

Playstation Tales of Phantasia doesn't prompt you when skits are available. It's more like Phantasy Star IV. You press the button after stuff happens, and you keep pressing it until they repeat themselves. If you didn't know it had skits, you could easily miss all of them.

[Sylthia]

Why would you ever NOT watch the skits? (Though I do wish they spaced them out a little better sometimes, it's annoying to do something and then get like 3-4 skits). I mean, if there is something gamers are trained to do, it's push a button when a prompt about it pops up on screen. :P

You'd be surprised out how many people skip them, then complain that the characters are boring/lack development.

[Illieas]

You'd be surprised out how many people skip them, then complain that the characters are boring/lack development.

THe only problem i have is that a good deal are location or situation dependent to show up. SOmetime it shows up for a bit and then disappears. I have to say that the skits and ending quotes are the best part of the tales series to me followed by the combat system

[Shekinah]

THe only problem i have is that a good deal are location or situation dependent to show up. SOmetime it shows up for a bit and then disappears. I have to say that the skits and ending quotes are the best part of the tales series to me followed by the combat system

I think that's Namco's way of encouraging people to watch the skits.

[Sylthia]

THe only problem i have is that a good deal are location or situation dependent to show up. SOmetime it shows up for a bit and then disappears. I have to say that the skits and ending quotes are the best part of the tales series to me followed by the combat system

I'm not sure about of Xillia is, but with Graces pretty much every skit is at a save point or at one of the "discoveries" and doesn't seem to trigger randomly like most of the older games.

Graces also doesn't have an overworld traversable map like most of the older games, but seems to have save points about every five feet. Much to the chagrin of my wife, since if I see a save point, I'm compelled to save at it when I pass it.

[Shekinah]

I'm not sure about of Xillia is, but with Graces pretty much every skit is at a save point or at one of the "discoveries" and doesn't seem to trigger randomly like most of the older games.

Graces also doesn't have an overworld traversable map like most of the older games, but seems to have save points about every five feet. Much to the chagrin of my wife, since if I see a save point, I'm compelled to save at it when I pass it.

If it helps you feel better, I've been saving at every opportunity in my 3DS TotA game. Mostly because I started it new and I'm playing as Guy instead of Luke, so I take beatings about as well as creampuff.

[Sylthia]

Sophie, actually. I could pretty much take or leave the rest of the cast, but she really grew on me.

To each his own, in the F arc, I found Sophie to be a tad grating, just from agonizing about happenings decades from now.

Honestly, I found Hubert to be the most relatable. He drives himself, not only to be good, but to be the best. He's gifted, but he feels rejected by his parents and thinks they don't value him as a son. He doesn't just want to prove them wrong, he wants to be better than them. To show them that they were wrong to throw him away. He also is introverted and has his nerdy side.


If it helps you feel better, I've been saving at every opportunity in my 3DS TotA game. Mostly because I started it new and I'm playing as Guy instead of Luke, so I take beatings about as well as creampuff.

I wish I could organize my saves to a greater extent. One thing I like about computer games is that I can often give names to my save files, rather than just the Lv and where I saved.

[Shekinah]

To each his own, in the F arc, I found Sophie to be a tad grating, just from agonizing about happenings decades from now.

Honestly, I found Hubert to be the most relatable. He drives himself, not only to be good, but to be the best. He's gifted, but he feels rejected by his parents and thinks they don't value him as a son. He doesn't just want to prove them wrong, he wants to be better than them. To show them that they were wrong to throw him away. He also is introverted and has his nerdy side.



I wish I could organize my saves to a greater extent. One thing I like about computer games is that I can often give names to my save files, rather than just the Lv and where I saved.

Sophie, I thought, fared better in the f arc if only because she stopped whining about Richard. In a strange sense, I can relate to Pascal. She has a natural talent some people would kill to have, she can be innocently insensitive (but apologizes right away and does her best not to repeat it), and her head is permanently in the clouds.

Oh, and there are only four save files in TotA 3DS. Woe is me.

[Zevox]

Also, Ristelle for the win!
Gotta admit, despite the fact that I don't do shipping, I did really like Vesperia inserting that. There's something about the way they dropped so many hints of Rita developing a crush on Estelle, yet never made it fully explicit, that just tickles me. Not entirely sure why - maybe just the unexpectedness of it. Combined perhaps with Vesperia being a rare case of a game where the male and female leads don't become a romantic pair by the end, which is another small touch I really liked about it.


Yeah, I was mostly joking. Besides, it looks like everyone in this thread agrees with me about the flaws, if not necessarily the severity.
Well, everyone except me, anyway. :smallwink:


Sophie, actually. I could pretty much take or leave the rest of the cast, but she really grew on me.
Huh, interesting. Though I must admit, she was one of the ones I had most wished they had done more with. It always seemed to me like the setup they had with her was pretty ripe for interesting character development, but nowhere near as much came of it as I'd hoped early in the game. Granted I can say similar things about most of the cast of Graces, but her especially, with how alien her existence is from normal humans.


I have to disagree with Illieas here - I don't think Symphonia is the winner of the PS2/PS3 era Tales; By all reports, it was an excellent game for its time, but hasn't stood the test of time as well as it could have (one of these reasons, as Ishikar mentioned, is that Colette is...so passive as to be barely a character.)
I think it's less that it hasn't stood the test of time as it that was a bit overrated from the start. And I freely admit I was one of those doing that overrating at the time, but looking back on it, it has more flaws to the characters and story than I'd noticed initially. One of which being, yeah, the main characters - both Colette and Lloyd I'd say. Still a pretty strong game, don't get me wrong, but definitely not the best Tales.

[Shekinah]

Whoa... people on here think that Symphonia is overrated? Usually I'm the only one who thinks that.

It had problems from the get-go to be sure. It's still fun, but I still roll my eyes at people who praise the story quality and the lead characters.

I hate Colette. Third most hated Tales character on my Tales Characters I Hate List.

[Sylthia]

Gotta admit, despite the fact that I don't do shipping, I did really like Vesperia inserting that. There's something about the way they dropped so many hints of Rita developing a crush on Estelle, yet never made it fully explicit, that just tickles me. Not entirely sure why - maybe just the unexpectedness of it. Combined perhaps with Vesperia being a rare case of a game where the male and female leads don't become a romantic pair by the end, which is another small touch I really liked about it.

Graces has Asbel-Richard, although YMMV.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Gotta admit, despite the fact that I don't do shipping, I did really like Vesperia inserting that. There's something about the way they dropped so many hints of Rita developing a crush on Estelle, yet never made it fully explicit, that just tickles me. Not entirely sure why - maybe just the unexpectedness of it. Combined perhaps with Vesperia being a rare case of a game where the male and female leads don't become a romantic pair by the end, which is another small touch I really liked about it.

Haha, I agree. I ship those two so much (and I don't do that much shipping), even though I like Rita so much more than Estelle. But I love the Ristelle pairing. Though Zevox, I'm not sure how much I'd agree with you that they didn't go right out and say it. :smalltongue:

I definitely enjoyed that small touch too.

[Mattarias, King.]

Well, you could always try getting a hold of the Playstation version. The only benefit to the GBA version was the hilariously bad voice acting (no seriously, everyone should try it at least once). Otherwise it suffered from severe slowdown and a few other issues.

Is THAT why the combat was SO. FRUSTRATINGLY. SLOW?! o_o Daaang. Thanks, I'll try to hunt it down.

And yeah, the voice acting was terri- THERE WERE SKITS?! (;°Д°)҉

[Bodkins Odds]

I don't remember if the GBA version had skits. They were added to the Playstation release, but they weren't in the original SNES version, and the GBA version was a weird combination of the SNES and the Playstation versions. If you do get the Playstation version though, then I suggest you rip it and play it on your PC where you'll have your choice of two different 100% translation patches.

Both patches are good, but I'd recommend the Phantasian Productions (http://www.tales-cless.org/?page=tales) patch instead of the Absolute Zero (http://a0t.co/phantasia/) one, since the Phantasian Production one actually translates the skits.

[Mattarias, King.]

I don't remember if the GBA version had skits. They were added to the Playstation release, but they weren't in the original SNES version, and the GBA version was a weird combination of the SNES and the Playstation versions. If you do get the Playstation version though, then I suggest you rip it and play it on your PC where you'll have your choice of two different 100% translation patches.

Both patches are good, but I'd recommend the Phantasian Productions (http://www.tales-cless.org/?page=tales) patch instead of the Absolute Zero (http://a0t.co/phantasia/) one, since the Phantasian Production one actually translates the skits.

Oooh, good to know. Thank you. :)

[Sylthia]

Is THAT why the combat was SO. FRUSTRATINGLY. SLOW?! o_o Daaang. Thanks, I'll try to hunt it down.

And yeah, the voice acting was terri- THERE WERE SKITS?! (;°Д°)҉

Are there any GBA games that have good voice acting?

[Shekinah]

Are there any GBA games that have good voice acting?

Slightly related: the speakers on the 3DS make the voices sound rather off. The echos are gone and the voices are almost grating compared to the music.

Nitpicking, but whatever.

[Airk]

To each his own, in the F arc, I found Sophie to be a tad grating, just from agonizing about happenings decades from now.

I don't really remember any "agonizing" at all. Though I thought he F Arc overall was a little bland.

I'm not saying she had great character development - NO ONE is Graces has great character development. I just thought she was likable, maybe because she was the only person in the party who's "issues" didn't result in them acting like an ass entirely too often. (Well, her and Pascal, and Pascal was just too much a comic relief character for me to care.)



Honestly, I found Hubert to be the most relatable. He drives himself, not only to be good, but to be the best. He's gifted, but he feels rejected by his parents and thinks they don't value him as a son. He doesn't just want to prove them wrong, he wants to be better than them. To show them that they were wrong to throw him away. He also is introverted and has his nerdy side.

This all sounds fine on paper, but there wasn't really anything about him in the game that made me care. He spent too much time being abrasive.

As for Symphonia being overrated from the start, I don't really want to come out and say that, since I haven't played it, just consumed a bunch of its 'supplemental material' (OVAs, etc.). That said, I think it has a similar problem to FF7 - it was a lot of people's "first kiss" game, and a lot of people have trouble realizing that the games/movies/media/whatever that got them into a hobby/genre/whatever actually aren't objectively all that good.

[Shekinah]

The characters in Graces (barring Sophie) have plenty of development, especially in the f arc... although Pascal doesn't change all that much.

[Airk]

The characters in Graces (barring Sophie) have plenty of development, especially in the f arc... although Pascal doesn't change all that much.

Quantity <> Quality. :P

Anyway, I would disagree in the extreme. The only characters in Graces I feel develop at all are Asbel and maybe Richard. Cheria goes from being somewhat shrewish and secretly crushing on Asbel to being slightly less shrewish and secretly crushing on Asbel. Hubert goes from being a jerk with a superiority complex to slightly less of a jerk with a superiority complex. Malik... has that whole arc in Its-Not-Russia-We-Promise and changes not a bit. Things happen to all the characters that explain more about their background, but nothing that happens in the game seems to change most of them. I don't feel like any of them (except the aforemention Asbel and maybe Richard) grow as people throughout the course of the game or something.

[Mewtarthio]

Haha, I agree. I ship those two so much (and I don't do that much shipping), even though I like Rita so much more than Estelle. But I love the Ristelle pairing. Though Zevox, I'm not sure how much I'd agree with you that they didn't go right out and say it. :smalltongue:

I definitely enjoyed that small touch too.

I like that it hits just the right balance in terms of its importance to Rita's character: You couldn't cut Ristelle altogether without drastically reducing her character, but it's also not so important that it eclipses the rest of her personality. Which is a pretty tricky balance to hit, especially given that protecting Estelle is pretty much Rita's primary motivation after the first act or so of the game.

Also, how can you not like a story where the vitriolic, cynical misanthrope falls for the idealistic pink-haired princess? :smallsmile:

[Shekinah]

I'm misreading so much on Internet stuffs that I think I'm going illiterate...

[Mattarias, King.]

Are there any GBA games that have good voice acting?

Yes! Riviera: The Promised Land. Probably my favorite GBA game, tied with Golden Sun.

[Sylthia]

Yes! Riviera: The Promised Land. Probably my favorite GBA game, tied with Golden Sun.

Is that an RPG? I wonder if I can find some YouTube footage of it.

[Shekinah]

I consider the GBA Pokémon games at having good voice acting. Does that count?

Also, I still think Hubert grows the most as a character in Graces and that Pascal is a character and not a construct.

[Airk]

Also, I still think Hubert grows the most as a character in Graces and that Pascal is a character and not a construct.

"not a construct"? Okay. Sure. I'll give you that. The problem is she's a character with no development (or, indeed, any change at all during the game), no real motivations (she pretty much joins the party on a whim because she thinks Sophie is cool), no fears, no doubts, no hopes, no dreams, and as far as I can tell, no ambitions. She has nothing that humanizes her.

Do feel free to describe Hubert's character growth, it's possible I missed it.

[Shekinah]

Pascal does experience some doubt. Do you remember the first meeting with her sister? For a bit, she very much doubted her sister loved her anymore. As far as her hopes and dreams go, she wants the valkynes to work for people, such as giving the people of Fendel and Velanik heat so they don't have to struggle to survive (as much). She's basically a researcher of valkynes, but with a carefree personality.

As for Hubert...

He starts out as shy, even cowardly, compared to his brother. The move to the Oswell household pretty much traumatizes him (it doesn't help that his parents apparently never kept in contact with him) and when we see him next he's very strict, stern, to the point, and not at all the Hubert we knew in the childhood arc. The Defrosting Ice Queen trope works with him, which is a trope I'm personally a fan of, when done correctly. His abrasiveness is understandable when you see how much of a political bastard his foster father is and how conniving his cousin is, but it's also pointed out in a sidequest that despite all that, Oswell still cared for him as a son and wanted what was best for him.

When he first joins the party, he's extremely doubtful about Asbel (and for good reason). He's also suspicious of the people he doesn't know about, which he says comes from his foster father. As time goes on, he learns to trust them and even falls in love. For someone as logical and by-the-book as Hubert, the feeling of love and the vulnerability that comes with it is huge for his character.

I hope that helped explain my scrambled thoughts.

[Airk]

Yes, fine, he develops between the childhood intro stuff and the main game, but I really don't get that much of a feeling of progess from him in the main game proper. I also think Hubert/Pascal is so absurd that it's difficult to take seriously, but... points noted.

I still don't like him at all.

[Shekinah]

Fair enough.

Gah, another nitpick I have about TotA 3DS: the slight lag in-between spells. Not a big worry with offensive spells, but with healing and defensive spells, it can be annoying. There's about a two-second delay between the caster finishing his/her incantation and the spell actually happening, though if it's a weak spell it's much less than that.

Definitely loving the map feature for outdoor dungeons, though.

[Ulm11]

Fair enough.

Gah, another nitpick I have about TotA 3DS: the slight lag in-between spells. Not a big worry with offensive spells, but with healing and defensive spells, it can be annoying. There's about a two-second delay between the caster finishing his/her incantation and the spell actually happening, though if it's a weak spell it's much less than that.


Considering the number of times I have played the game I am surprised I never noticed that.

[Shekinah]

Considering the number of times I have played the game I am surprised I never noticed that.

If it helps you feel better, I just realized the tuning fork golems we fight are also in the shape of a "Y" as in Yulia, and I've played this game almost a dozen times.

[Zevox]

I like that it hits just the right balance in terms of its importance to Rita's character: You couldn't cut Ristelle altogether without drastically reducing her character, but it's also not so important that it eclipses the rest of her personality. Which is a pretty tricky balance to hit, especially given that protecting Estelle is pretty much Rita's primary motivation after the first act or so of the game.

Also, how can you not like a story where the vitriolic, cynical misanthrope falls for the idealistic pink-haired princess? :smallsmile:
Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that. Never quite thought of it in terms like that last, and that does make it all the more amusing, too. :smallsmile:

[Gan The Grey]

I love the Tales series, to the point where it is the only reason I bought a PS3. However, there is one aspect of the series that has always bugged me. The writers seem overly resistant to pulling the trigger on character relationships. Everything is hinted at, alluded to, but the characters never really cross the line and make anything official.

Bugs the crap out of me. I understand drawing things out to increase anticipation, but without the payoff...

[Sylthia]

I love the Tales series, to the point where it is the only reason I bought a PS3. However, there is one aspect of the series that has always bugged me. The writers seem overly resistant to pulling the trigger on character relationships. Everything is hinted at, alluded to, but the characters never really cross the line and make anything official.

Bugs the crap out of me. I understand drawing things out to increase anticipation, but without the payoff...

It can be a bit annoying.

I think Symphonia 2 has Emil and Marta get together, since she pretty much claims him as hers from the beginning, but it's been a while since I played it.

With Abyss Tear doesn't get the chance, since Luke dies, maybe.

In Graces, Asbel does finally wind up with Richard Cheria, and they are seen to have had a child together.

[Airk]

I love the Tales series, to the point where it is the only reason I bought a PS3. However, there is one aspect of the series that has always bugged me. The writers seem overly resistant to pulling the trigger on character relationships. Everything is hinted at, alluded to, but the characters never really cross the line and make anything official.

Bugs the crap out of me. I understand drawing things out to increase anticipation, but without the payoff...

I'm...not entirely clear on what you're asking for? You want a kiss scene or something? Or some Word of God "this is an official pairing"?

Me, I think they do it on purpose to keep people discussing potential 'ships. :P

[Gan The Grey]

I'm...not entirely clear on what you're asking for? You want a kiss scene or something? Or some Word of God "this is an official pairing"?

Me, I think they do it on purpose to keep people discussing potential 'ships. :P

I want the line to be crossed. I want them to actually deal with the situations that arise when you cross that line. I want something other than just build-up. I want their characters to eventually stop dancing around the situation and finally own up. It feels like the developers are almost uncomfortable dealing with these situations, so they just keep putting it off. I mean, look at Final Fantasy VIII. As far as I remember, the main theme of the game was a love story. I want to see something like that in a Tales game.

Some examples:

Tales of Graces f
Asbel and Cheria - Yes, we get to see a child. That was neat, but they still don't really deal with their relationship. They had a chance to really develop this in the extra story included with f (can't remember what it was called), but they didn't.

Hubert and Pascal - We never get anywhere with this. He finally gets up the nerve to say something to her, and she mistakes his message and he just lets it go.



Tales of Symphonia
Lloyd and ???? - Admittedly, it has been a long time since I've played this, but I remember that you could pretty much choose who you wanted to develop a relationship with as the game went on. This would have been a perfect opportunity for some decently romantic variable endings, but I feel like they deliberately avoided dealing with it once you got there.

[Airk]

I want the line to be crossed. I want them to actually deal with the situations that arise when you cross that line. I want something other than just build-up. I want their characters to eventually stop dancing around the situation and finally own up. It feels like the developers are almost uncomfortable dealing with these situations, so they just keep putting it off.

Nope; I think they're doing it for exactly the reason I stated. Fans like making up their own nonsensical relationships (Lookin' at you, Raven/Rita). Official ones break that down.


I mean, look at Final Fantasy VIII. As far as I remember, the main theme of the game was a love story.

And THAT went over SO WELL with the fans. ;) FF8 is pretty hated on. (I was going to say it was "one of the most hated on FF games," then I realized we had 12 and 13.)



Hubert and Pascal - We never get anywhere with this. He finally gets up the nerve to say something to her, and she mistakes his message and he just lets it go.

This is all this deserves, IMHO.



Lloyd and ???? - Admittedly, it has been a long time since I've played this, but I remember that you could pretty much choose who you wanted to develop a relationship with as the game went on. This would have been a perfect opportunity for some decently romantic variable endings, but I feel like they deliberately avoided dealing with it once you got there.

I just completely disagree here. This isn't a dating sim, and anytime you make a "system" out of something like this, people end up spending a ton of time with a guide so they can get the person they want. Doing something like this would activity diminish my entertainment.

I don't object to the idea of characters in a game actually committing to a relationship, and it might be a nice change of pace, but it's hard to write well, and probably isn't actually in Namco's best interest in terms of pleasing most of their fans. I DO object to including too many 'dating sim' elements.

[Gan The Grey]

Nope; I think they're doing it for exactly the reason I stated. Fans like making up their own nonsensical relationships (Lookin' at you, Raven/Rita). Official ones break that down.

For the secondary characters, sure. That makes sense. For Asbel and Cheria? We all know where it's going. Just take us there already!


And THAT went over SO WELL with the fans. ;) FF8 is pretty hated on. (I was going to say it was "one of the most hated on FF games," then I realized we had 12 and 13.)

Again, this is just my opinion, but I'm not sure most of the problems people have with FF8 had to do with its story. I hated the way that game played, but liked the story. I hear that a lot from people.




This is all this deserves, IMHO.

Quite a few people in this thread have complained about the lack of character growth, especially with Pascal. The developers had an opportunity with this situation to grow her character in a deeper direction, but opted for more of the same in order to avoid dealing with it.


I just completely disagree here. This isn't a dating sim, and anytime you make a "system" out of something like this, people end up spending a ton of time with a guide so they can get the person they want. Doing something like this would activity diminish my entertainment.

I don't object to the idea of characters in a game actually committing to a relationship, and it might be a nice change of pace, but it's hard to write well, and probably isn't actually in Namco's best interest in terms of pleasing most of their fans. I DO object to including too many 'dating sim' elements.

What's wrong with dating sims? More specifically, what does it matter what other people do when they play the game? So you don't like playing that way. No problem. Don't do it. But the fact is, Tales of Symphonia HAD relationship sim elements built into it. It was a part of the game. The problem was, the player got practically NOTHING from it in the end. That's basically a feature with no benefit. For people like you, it's not a problem. For me, it got a little frustrating. I keep hoping, with every new addition to the series, that Namco takes that leap and addresses those topics. We almost got there with Graces, but with f, I felt like they dropped the ball.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Just a week and a half until Xillia is released stateside! I really need to hurry up and finish Graces F.

All those getting Xillia, are you playing as Jude or Milla first? I'm playing as Jude first because I hear the story works out better if you play as Jude and then Milla, as Milla provides a lot of foreshadowing at the like that you won't really understand on the first playthough but will get on the second (and since most Tales Series games require a flowchart to understand anyway...). Also, as stoked as I am for the first female protagonist, the idea of playing as a med student protagonist tickles me, as I'm prevet.

[Zevox]

Just a week and a half until Xillia is released stateside! I really need to hurry up and finish Graces F.

All those getting Xillia, are you playing as Jude or Milla first? I'm playing as Jude first because I hear the story works out better if you play as Jude and then Milla, as Milla provides a lot of foreshadowing at the like that you won't really understand on the first playthough but will get on the second (and since most Tales Series games require a flowchart to understand anyway...). Also, as stoked as I am for the first female protagonist, the idea of playing as a med student protagonist tickles me, as I'm prevet.
Hm, I was planning on playing as Milla first, because of her being the first female main protagonist for the series, but if it does work better in reverse, I might just have to change that.

[Sylthia]

Just a week and a half until Xillia is released stateside! I really need to hurry up and finish Graces F.

All those getting Xillia, are you playing as Jude or Milla first? I'm playing as Jude first because I hear the story works out better if you play as Jude and then Milla, as Milla provides a lot of foreshadowing at the like that you won't really understand on the first playthough but will get on the second (and since most Tales Series games require a flowchart to understand anyway...). Also, as stoked as I am for the first female protagonist, the idea of playing as a med student protagonist tickles me, as I'm prevet.

I wonder how being a med student protagonist in a Tales game will feel. I just finished with med school and am now a resident. Although I played games to get away from that in the first place, so it's kinda weird. Reminds me of the World of Workcraft video from a few years ago.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, he probably won't be an Idiot Hero.

[Sylthia]

Well, he probably won't be an Idiot Hero.

With my experience with med school, you'd be surprised, since Int=\=Wis.

Good luck with prevet, by the way.:smallsmile:

[Ishikar]

Call it a hunch.

Also, to newcomers to the Tales series, watch the skits. A lot of the character development and best scenes in the game are in there.

I know it's a callback in the thread but man I just couldn't help but jump to the "Tear's Melons" skit from Abyss. It was just too funny when I saw it and it really helps flesh out Tear's Tsundere traits, and I for one have a HUGE weakness for those types in most media types (Rie Kugimiya has FAR too many roles in anime that I enjoy, even if they are the same character with different back stories.


Lloyd and ???? - Admittedly, it has been a long time since I've played this, but I remember that you could pretty much choose who you wanted to develop a relationship with as the game went on. This would have been a perfect opportunity for some decently romantic variable endings, but I feel like they deliberately avoided dealing with it once you got there.

Eh the effort involved with the "other" prospects in that game meant that you either spent the whole game badmouthing Collete intentionally or beat the game several times carrying over affection levels to offset the MASSIVE advantage the female "protagonist" had.

[Zevox]

Eh the effort involved with the "other" prospects in that game meant that you either spent the whole game badmouthing Collete intentionally or beat the game several times carrying over affection levels to offset the MASSIVE advantage the female "protagonist" had.
No, not really. I recall doing that with a number of other characters, and the only one that was actually difficult to do was Kratos. (It wasn't actually a romantic pairing thing, by the way, just a strong friendship.)

[Sylthia]

No, not really. I recall doing that with a number of other characters, and the only one that was actually difficult to do was Kratos. (It wasn't actually a romantic pairing thing, by the way, just a strong friendship.)

I don't think they could make that pair romantic and keep the T rating.

[Shekinah]

Zelos is really hard to build affection for as well. So many things tick him off. He's more hypersensitive than I am on my bad days.

Also, Rezzy, y u post in blue text?

[Zevox]

I don't think they could make that pair romantic and keep the T rating.
No, I mean in general. That whole mechanic was a friendship thing, regardless of who you did it with.

[Sylthia]

Zelos is really hard to build affection for as well. So many things tick him off. He's more hypersensitive than I am on my bad days.

Also, Rezzy, y u post in blue text?

Blue text is for sarcasm/joking.

[Wolf_Haley]

Still mad I can never see that Jade/Dist pairing in game, the devs kept teasing the fanbase back in the day that their was stuff in game they could do to push them together in New Game+. Trolled hard.

[Shekinah]

Still mad I can never see that Jade/Dist pairing in game, the devs kept teasing the fanbase back in the day that their was stuff in game they could do to push them together in New Game+. Trolled hard.

Well, we do get that one scene...

[Sylthia]

Still mad I can never see that Jade/Dist pairing in game, the devs kept teasing the fanbase back in the day that their was stuff in game they could do to push them together in New Game+. Trolled hard.

We do get this scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dtCoe7sMIQ

[Airk]

For the secondary characters, sure. That makes sense. For Asbel and Cheria? We all know where it's going. Just take us there already!

Eh. I guess. I honestly felt it hard to care about Asbel/Cheria, so I don't really think it would have been interesting for those particular two characters to have a relationship.



Again, this is just my opinion, but I'm not sure most of the problems people have with FF8 had to do with its story. I hated the way that game played, but liked the story. I hear that a lot from people.

I've heard both sides. Some people enjoyed the gameplay and loathed the characters and story, some people enjoyed the story but couldn't wrap their heads around junctioning.


Quite a few people in this thread have complained about the lack of character growth, especially with Pascal. The developers had an opportunity with this situation to grow her character in a deeper direction, but opted for more of the same in order to avoid dealing with it.

I disagree; I don't think Pascal/Hubert is remotely feasible - I don't think they could have handled it any way other than the way they did and had it seem consistent with her character as written.



What's wrong with dating sims? More specifically, what does it matter what other people do when they play the game? So you don't like playing that way. No problem. Don't do it. But the fact is, Tales of Symphonia HAD relationship sim elements built into it. It was a part of the game.

And yet you find yourself wondering why they didn't include this "feature" in other games? Let me help:

#1) It's a lot of effort to build in all those hooks and choices. JRPGs are already an expensive, time consuming genre to produce.
#2) It's even MORE time and effort if they want to make those choices do anything other than select the ending cutscene that they play.
#3) Most of the effort spent in #1 and #2 will only ever be seen by a tiny fraction of players. ESPECIALLY if it is integrated in a non-intrusive fashion, which will probably cause a lot of players to not even know it's there unless you display your "relationship levels" somewhere.
#4) If you DO display "Relationship levels" then that leads to people playing the game differently. This may not be desirable - if the designers want people to play the game "for the story" or something similar, then adding Dating Sim elements to the game alters the players behavior in a way that is contrary to the goal of the game. At the VERY least, it will result in people having another system they feel they need to pay attention to. Double especially if there are actions that LOWER relationship levels. People behave very strangely with regard to things like that. (Of course, if you DON'T display them, people will spend a ridiculous amount of time cataloging what actions do what so that they can get the ending they want (See: Star Ocean 3), but you will probably impact fewer of your players by not displaying the relationship levels.)
#5: As a rule, since game development is finite, the more effort you spend developing "alternate paths" the less attention and time you can give to the main one, so if you go meaningfully down the dating sim route, your main narrative is likely to suffer. Or you get the "Symphonia Effect" where the main narrative gets the focus and the dating sim elements feel tacked on and useless.

So to sum up:
Adding dating sim elements to a game is time consuming (and therefore expensive), only matters to a small number of players, but is capable of disrupting the experience of significantly more if not implemented well.


The problem was, the player got practically NOTHING from it in the end. That's basically a feature with no benefit.

I agree that the feature would have better been omitted, and based on the decisions they made with future entries in the series, the Tales team(s) agree with me.


For people like you, it's not a problem. For me, it got a little frustrating. I keep hoping, with every new addition to the series, that Namco takes that leap and addresses those topics. We almost got there with Graces, but with f, I felt like they dropped the ball.

You know the other weird thing about your request? It's not a request. it's TWO requests, which are not necessarily related and which in fact actually work cross purposes.

If you want a game in which the leads actually cement a romantic relationship DURING the game, then dating sim elements are actually counterproductive, because the more choices there are, the harder it becomes to meaningfully develop any of them.

If you want to play a JRPG with a relationship system, you might enjoy the Atelier series. (I did, but not for the relationship system, particularly.)

[Wolf_Haley]

Dating sim elements do not cater to just a small number of the fanbase. If it did Persona 3 and 4s dating elements wouldn't be so well recieved and constantly requested by large parts of the American and Japanese fanbase.

[Airk]

Dating sim elements do not cater to just a small number of the fanbase. If it did Persona 3 and 4s dating elements wouldn't be so well recieved and constantly requested by large parts of the American and Japanese fanbase.

I'd argue that that is different - people who play the Persona games do so strictly FOR those elements. I don't think many people play Persona for the "traditional RPG" bits. And honestly, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that it's actually the "dating sim" elements and not simply the character development that has people interested in the Persona series.

You'll also notice that if you compare the amount of "main narrative" text in those games to the amount in a Tales game, the Tales game has WAY MORE going on, because in Persona, you need to give the player lots of time with, essentially, nothing happening. The "main plot" in the Persona games is actually pretty barebones if you really think about it, and doesn't have anything approaching the degree of complexity involved in a "traditional JRPG". Compare the Symphonia Narrative to the P3 or P4 narrative and you'll see what I mean. Heck. Just try to summarize the events of one compared to the other. Whether that is a good thing, a bad thing, or neither will depend on the viewer.

If you think this kind of structure would work in a traditional RPG, you are free to think that, but I am free to think you are wrong. They are, fundamentally, very, very different games, and what "works" or even "is important" in one absolutely isn't in the other. You'll also note that there are large "game element" functions to the "dating sim" mechanics, due to the way they are tied to the Persona Arcana. I doubt I'm the only person who said to himself while playing one of these games "I really don't want to go hang out with that guy, because I just don't care about his stupid issues, but I really want to level up my Star Arcana."

But you're right - it's possible to build a game that appeals to a wide number of people (relative term - both Tales and Persona are pretty niche on this side of the big pond) and contains heavy dating sim elements. It's NOT, IMHO, possible to do that and build a "standard JRPG" at the same time. Let's do some lazy research. How many people cared about the dating sim relationships in Star Ocean 3? Symphonia? Atelier games?

Again; There just isn't time and money enough in game development for a game that tries to do a big sprawling Tales style narrative AND Persona style relationship building at the same time. I'm not convinced that it could be done even with infinite money. I think you'd basically fall prey to the Master of Orion 3 effect, where you end up with a game that's completely unplayable because it's so utterly unfocused because it is trying to be all things to all people.

I mean hell, why don't we add branching dialogue trees ala Planescape Torment to these games too, while we're at it?

[Wolf_Haley]

Most of the fanbase for those games you just mentioned really like the dating sim elements present, especially in the Atelier games and SO3.

[Gan The Grey]

I think this discussion has meandered a bit from my original wants. The dating sim thing was just an example supporting my argument that Tales games often won't pull the trigger on relationships. It's not the dating sims I want. Its the character dynamics of the relationships that I'm interested in. There is a whole world of story on the other side of that line that we never get to see in Tales games. We get all the build up, but no pay off. I want some pay off. That's really all.

[Wolf_Haley]

Abyss was pretty bad about that, I ehard Vesperia did alright but I can't judge myself.

Anyone play Naikiri Dungeon X? It's got a fantranslation and I was thinking about playing it.

[Sylthia]

On a completely different note, in Graces, why hasn't Fendel taken over the world yet? They're a steam-punk nation who seem to be the only nation that equips their soldiers with guns. They rarely seem to use them, though. It seems odd that they use their weapons as bayonets more often than as guns.

[CoffeeIncluded]

On a completely different note, in Graces, why hasn't Fendel taken over the world yet? They're a steam-punk nation who seem to be the only nation that equips their soldiers with guns. They rarely seem to use them, though. It seems odd that they use their weapons as bayonets more often than as guns.

Because they're destitute. They probably don't have enough X-rays to support the gun bit of the gun enough. Put another way, they have a low bullet supply. They're a major power, but they simply don't have the resources to take over the world; they barely have enough natural resources to survive.

[Sylthia]

Because they're destitute. They probably don't have enough X-rays to support the gun bit of the gun enough. Put another way, they have a low bullet supply. They're a major power, but they simply don't have the resources to take over the world; they barely have enough natural resources to survive.

They seem to not use their massive technological edge to their advantage. If they actually used their guns, they could take out the entire Lhant army from over a hundred yards away and have that lush resource rich land.

[CoffeeIncluded]

They can't. Remember Fendel Tower? Fendel may look imposing and steampunk and a war machine on the outside, but on the inside, it's a rusted heap, barely limping along, with nearly everyone subsiding on rags and scraps (there are some blatant real-world parallels that I am not going to get into here). They're practically falling apart. Glitzy guns mean nothing when they're neither accurate nor reliable.

[Airk]

Abyss was pretty bad about that, I ehard Vesperia did alright but I can't judge myself.


Vesperia didn't even HAVE any romantic relationships (unless you count Ristelle :P) so no, it didn't. Yuri and Estelle have ZERO romantic chemistry together, which is FINE, but definitely NOT getting Gan any of the 'payoff' he wants. (Aside: That sounds kindof dirty.)

And yeah, I'm with CoffeeIncluded - Fendel just doesn't have the resources. I wager most of those 'guns' can't even fire. Plus I get the feeling things aren't all warm and fuzzy at home, so they can't devote too much of their army to foreign undertakings without risking everything coming down around their ears on the home front.

[Sylthia]

I could see Fendel not being able to hold onto power, but they should be a bigger military threat than they are. Having a poor, barren homeland with a military technological edge would make them akin to Vikings.

[Shekinah]

Three days until Xillia! And Rezzy isn't on call that week. Pretty awesome timing.

[Gan The Grey]

Vesperia didn't even HAVE any romantic relationships (unless you count Ristelle :P) so no, it didn't. Yuri and Estelle have ZERO romantic chemistry together, which is FINE, but definitely NOT getting Gan any of the 'payoff' he wants. (Aside: That sounds kindof dirty.)

I don't mind having a game where romantic chemistry is pretty much avoided completely. I really like Vesperia, and you're right, I can't remember there being any sort of a love story going on.

Well, here, look at it a different way. Imagine having rumors of a set of legendary weaponry being mentioned a few hours into the game. As the game progresses, you hear more rumors, but you also start finding actual evidence of their existence in ancient frescoes. Every time you think you've stumbled upon them, their legend grows more complicated, pointing you in another direction with more to go on. Finally, through hard work, perseverance and a good amount of luck, you locate the hidden dungeon said to contain them. You fight past hordes of ferocious monsters stronger than any you have ever faced, solve devious puzzles, and strike down the ancient guardian seemingly plucked directly from a previous game in the series. Licking your wounds, you stride triumphantly up to the treasure room door and extend a hand shaking with expectation...

Then you turn and leave. The dungeon collapses in on itself, entombing the weapons for all time. After you beat the BBEG, the weapons are mentioned briefly, but never get to see them, let alone use them.

And that's how I feel when a Tales game acts like they are building to a romantic relationship and then drop the ball.

[Airk]

I don't mind having a game where romantic chemistry is pretty much avoided completely. I really like Vesperia, and you're right, I can't remember there being any sort of a love story going on.

Well, here, look at it a different way. Imagine having rumors of a set of legendary weaponry being mentioned a few hours into the game. As the game progresses, you hear more rumors, but you also start finding actual evidence of their existence in ancient frescoes. Every time you think you've stumbled upon them, their legend grows more complicated, pointing you in another direction with more to go on. Finally, through hard work, perseverance and a good amount of luck, you locate the hidden dungeon said to contain them. You fight past hordes of ferocious monsters stronger than any you have ever faced, solve devious puzzles, and strike down the ancient guardian seemingly plucked directly from a previous game in the series. Licking your wounds, you stride triumphantly up to the treasure room door and extend a hand shaking with expectation...

Then you turn and leave. The dungeon collapses in on itself, entombing the weapons for all time. After you beat the BBEG, the weapons are mentioned briefly, but never get to see them, let alone use them.

And that's how I feel when a Tales game acts like they are building to a romantic relationship and then drop the ball.

I think you analogy is...pretty bad, sadly.

[Sylthia]

I actually broke down and bought some DLC costumes for Graces. Wish they weren't so expensive, though.

[Shekinah]

I actually broke down and bought some DLC costumes for Graces. Wish they weren't so expensive, though.

Now you must endure the mocking of everyone here because you bought silly video game items for aesthetic use only.

[Sylthia]

Now you must endure the mocking of everyone here because you bought silly video game items for aesthetic use only.

Not purely aesthetic, since you get the title and its associated skills as well.

[Shekinah]

Not purely aesthetic, since you get the title and its associated skills as well.

We all know what the real reason was. ;)

[Sylthia]

We all know what the real reason was. ;)

You do get upbeat battle music when you wear one of the school outfits.

[Shekinah]

You do get upbeat battle music when you wear one of the school outfits.

Yeah, it was definitely the music that made you take those outfits.

[Airk]

I actually broke down and bought some DLC costumes for Graces. Wish they weren't so expensive, though.

Yeah, Namco is really missing out here. $5 per costume is absurd. If they want to bundle like, sets of 7 (one per party member) for $15 or so, they've got my money, but $5 EACH? For THAT MANY? Haha, no.

I bought one (Anise costume for Sophie) and a couple of accessories, as a sort of gift, but that was it.

[Gan The Grey]

I think you analogy is...pretty bad, sadly.

EDIT: You know, I had a response for this, but frankly, I'm just getting tired of responding to people who refuse to open themselves to other people's opinions. So, I concede. It just isn't worth the energy, and it means nothing to my life to get you to understand my viewpoint.

[Sylthia]

Yeah, Namco is really missing out here. $5 per costume is absurd. If they want to bundle like, sets of 7 (one per party member) for $15 or so, they've got my money, but $5 EACH? For THAT MANY? Haha, no.

I bought one (Anise costume for Sophie) and a couple of accessories, as a sort of gift, but that was it.

That was my exact rant to my wife, actually. I thought there should have been a discount or something if you bought the complete set of a given costume. I bought a couple for Hubert and Sophie, since I don't like the ones they have available in-game, as well as one each for Cheria, Pascal, and Malik, because I and/or my wife liked the way they looked.

[Airk]

EDIT: You know, I had a response for this, but frankly, I'm just getting tired of responding to people who refuse to open themselves to other people's opinions. So, I concede. It just isn't worth the energy, and it means nothing to my life to get you to understand my viewpoint.

I actually already understand your point of view thank you, and half agree with it - though mostly as a change of pace, rather than as something that I consider actually 'better' in some objective way, but I like variety. Sadly, I still think the analogy was terrible, sorry. Simply because, for a lot of people (myself included) seeing a relationship in its developmental stages is at least as interesting (oftentimes, moreso. There's a reason for all the "Yeah, romance was fun and then I got married" sort of jokes) as it is to see it...post... whatever. Yeah, they could take it further along, but the uncertainty of it is what a lot of people find interesting. You could try to leave the uncertainty, but then you're not REALLY advancing the relationship. (If, for example, they kiss and then go on acting all insecure around one another, you haven't really done anything. But if sudden things are all complacent, you lose a lot of tension, which many people like.)

So your analogy crumbles because I don't think you'll find anyone who finds 'hearing' about something much fun, whereas many people DO like exactly what they're getting from these games. A better analogy might be going on a big quest to accomplish something (like, oh, saving the world) and then not really getting to see the results of all your effort. Oddly, this is something we do pretty much all the time and seem to enjoy, so I guess that analogy doesn't really support your viewpoint. But just because your analogy is bad doesn't mean I don't understand what you are asking for and even sortof why. I just think your why's aren't widely applicable, and might not actually be as satisfying as you think they might be in implementation. But we never know until we try, so yeah, it'd be nice if they tried.

Or you can just decide that I'm obtuse because I don't agree with you. Feel free. As you say, your approval isn't worth anything to me, either. I was just trying to have an intelligent discussion.

Re Costumes:
And yeah. Namco is missing out on a bunch of money from me. Remember: Me buying all the costumes at a steep discount is WAY more money for you guys than me buying NONE of the costumes at full price. :P

[CoffeeIncluded]

My copy of Tales of Xillia is sitting in a warehouse less than thirty miles from my house; I'll get it by the time I come home from my internship tomorrow. WHEN WILL TOMORROW BE.

[Surrealistik]

Never. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhYtB7pjkS0)

[Zevox]

So, I've played a few hours into it. I actually initially started with Milla, but quickly decided to switch to Jude. Besides the earlier warning you guys gave, Milla's story was starting in media res, and not really explaining anything to me, which was kind of annoying. Jude's was an immediate step up there, as you start off slower, with a decent introduction to the world and your place in it before getting caught up in the events Milla's end starts on.

So far, not far enough to say much about the story. Combat-wise I'm interested in the new linking system, though so far I haven't fully figured out how to trigger link artes consistently. I do get the impression that we're back to a system where normal attacks are pretty much interchangeable though, which is disappointing after Graces did so well revamping that. Though this might be the first Tales game where jumping attacks are worth using, too, so there's that.

I've actually spent more time playing as Milla than Jude despite switching to his story, actually. I like the arcane warrior sort of style they give her, with spells that can either be quickly released as melee effects or charged for more traditional Tales-style versions. Though I wish she didn't automatically walk forward a few paces before starting to charge up when I want to do the ranged version. Still, I like playing as Jude as well - pretty neat to have a main character for the series who is a fist-fighter instead of a swordsman, and a healer to boot. And that ability of his that has quickly spin around to an enemy's rear after backstepping an attack is pretty fun to use, as well as effective.

So yeah, not far in, but enjoying it so far :smallsmile: .

[Sylthia]

Concerning Jude, how the heck does one become a medical student at age 15. Is he Doogie Hauser or something?

[Surrealistik]

If it helps with your suspension of disbelief (probably not), Resident Evil is even _more_ ridiculous about these sorts of hyper-prodigies; vastly more.

[Airk]

Concerning Jude, how the heck does one become a medical student at age 15. Is he Doogie Hauser or something?

Educated guess here, but probably not every society/technology level/technology requires 18 years of study for you to become a doctor. :P And if it does, you'd better start early.

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's a jrpg; he's right on schedule. :smalltongue:

Also, in European countries, apparently you can go into a vet school program straight out of high school--a specialized veterinary program--instead of college and then vet school like in the us. If Jude went into a program like that or an accelerated program, possibly skipping a couple grades to boot, then it makes sense.

Aaagghhh I'm at my vet internship and my copy of Xillia is probably shipped home by now and there's no more appointments!

[Sylthia]

I may take a slight leave from this thread for a while, until I beat Xillia, to avoid accidental spoilers.

[Shekinah]

Xillia's text is super small. Bleh.

Also, I have a feeling I'm going to be thinking of the song "Hey Jude" a lot when I play this with Rezzy.

EDIT: residency training at fifteen... the reactions from the angry dwarf are priceless.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Wait wait wait. A full on residency? At age 15? I thought it was volunteering or an internship or clinical rotations as part of his med school training or something! It said med school student!

Sorry, but if it's a full on residency that's too much.

[Airk]

Wait wait wait. A full on residency? At age 15? I thought it was volunteering or an internship or clinical rotations as part of his med school training or something! It said med school student!

Sorry, but if it's a full on residency that's too much.

Guys, it's not OUR WORLD. Who's to say what he needs to learn and stuff? What's the age of maturity? Can he drink? Too many questions.

[Sylthia]

I can't play Xillia now, because I just got called in to see a patient. Oh the irony...

[Shekinah]

Guys, it's not OUR WORLD. Who's to say what he needs to learn and stuff? What's the age of maturity? Can he drink? Too many questions.

For some of us, the suspension of disbelief only goes too far, even when we're dealing with a different world.

Also, until I get a solid reason for why med schools allow teenagers to attend and do full friggin residencies, I'm going to call bs on the issue.

[Wolf_Haley]

GITP, no fun allowed zone

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay, so he's a senior. Not much better, but...better. Sorry, that was just too much for my suspension of disbelief.

Anyway, I downloaded the dlc costumes that came with the limited edition, but how do I put them on Jude and Milla (well, just Milla)?

[Surrealistik]

Okay, so he's a senior. Not much better, but...better. Sorry, that was just too much for my suspension of disbelief.

Not gonna lie, the Tales series in general tends to strain it like no other.

[Zevox]

Anyway, I downloaded the dlc costumes that came with the limited edition, but how do I put them on Jude and Milla (well, just Milla)?
Get them from the DLC section of your item list first. Then on the equip screen scroll down below where the require equipment is. There's a second screen that they get added to, which also includes 3 slots for the weird accessories of the sort that Vesperia and Graces had.

Though at present, the one that is supposed to change Milla's hairdo doesn't seem to work, at least for me. Not a big deal for me I guess, as I honestly doubt I'll want to use them on the first time through anyway, but I was curious what it looked like.

[Shekinah]

A fifteen-year-old graduating medical school and on his way to residency? I still don't buy it. I do understand why teenagers are accepted as medical students, however.

All that aside, Xillia is fun.

[Sylthia]

Get them from the DLC section of your item list first. Then on the equip screen scroll down below where the require equipment is. There's a second screen that they get added to, which also includes 3 slots for the weird accessories of the sort that Vesperia and Graces had.

Though at present, the one that is supposed to change Milla's hairdo doesn't seem to work, at least for me. Not a big deal for me I guess, as I honestly doubt I'll want to use them on the first time through anyway, but I was curious what it looked like.

You can also have Cress's sword as an attachment or something, but it doesn't seem to do anything.

[Zevox]

Re: Jude's whole med school thing - Do remember that this is a world where medicine is literally done through magic, guys. Odds are that it's substantially easier to become a doctor in ToX's world than in reality.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thanks, I'll try this when I get home. And yeah, you've got a point Zebox. Though anything with medical school (or vet school) is NOT EASY.

[Shekinah]

Re: Jude's whole med school thing - Do remember that this is a world where medicine is literally done through magic, guys. Odds are that it's substantially easier to become a doctor in ToX's world than in reality.

Even with that in mind, a residency at fifteen is ridiculous.

That's my only complaint about it so far, as I really like the characters. Still getting used to the gameplay, but that won't be a problem with two people playing.

[Airk]

Thanks, I'll try this when I get home. And yeah, you've got a point Zebox. Though anything with medical school (or vet school) is NOT EASY.

Seriously, people, they're not teaching him to be a surgeon or something. He probably doesn't even really need to understand biology. They're teaching him which bleeping healing arte to use for poison vs wounds and making sure he doesn't screw up the incantation under pressure. :P

How hard is it to understand that being a "medical student" in a world with magical healing isn't the same as it is in a world where you need to know a bunch of organic chemistry just to be considered capable of thinking about being a doctor. I suspect very strongly that being a "doctor" in the xillia world is more like any other "skilled craftsman" job and there's probably no such thing as "pre-med" in the Xillia world. :P I realize that all you folks who have invested tons of time in med school need to defend your credentials and all, but seriously. Relax. It's magic, and this has to be one of the most ridiculously nitpicky complaints I've read in a long time.

[CoffeeIncluded]

"Your mana lobe is in tip-top shape."

Which means that Jude has studied anatomy and physiology. He's studied neurology, neurological diseases, their effects on the body, their relationships with other organ systems, environmental effects, and what medications and spells to use. He probably has several books with titles like "Illustrated Atlas of The Human Neural System: Physiology and Pathology," and none of those are exactly light reading. Now take this and expand it to every organ system in the body, from cardiovascular to lymphatic to renal and everything in between. And add a thesis on top of it, which means Jude is spending nearly all his time either on clinical rotations, studying, or in the lab doing research. He probably lives on a diet of ramen and caffeine. Mostly caffeine.

I know it's a nitpicky thing, and I'm only a couple hours into the game, and I really like Jude because he seems intelligent and compassionate, and the idea of playing as a med student makes me grin. It's just that, I know it's silly in a game like this, but a 15 year old as a med school senior working on a thesis is just a bit much, even in this world. Age him up a couple of years, even to 17, and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

It's not a serious problem, just one that's glaring to me because it's my career choice (veterinary medicine goes along a very similar track as human medicine, and I want to do a residency and specialize in either surgery or emergency medicine. I'll be almost 30 by the time I'm done).

[Sylthia]

It amuses me that there's a Dr. Haus at the medical school.

Very early game spoilers...
Dr. Haus suffers a fate worse than death. He is forced to watch the entire last season of House.

[Wolf_Haley]

Only on GITP can I see complaints like this about a game.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hey, what can I say? I love this forum!

On a slightly related and yet completely unrelated note, I may have just spent my time walking the dog figuring out how Pascal and the rest of the Amarcians have dual-toned hair, and then figured out possible modes of inheritance when crossed with a solid-toned person (say, Hubert. He seems like a willing test subject.).

[Sylthia]

Hey, what can I say? I love this forum!

On a slightly related and yet completely unrelated note, I may have just spent my time walking the dog figuring out how Pascal and the rest of the Amarcians have dual-toned hair, and then figured out possible modes of inheritance when crossed with a solid-toned person (say, Hubert. He seems like a willing test subject.).

I love that. I've always wondered how anime-hair color inheritance worked and which were dominant/recessive traits. For the Aston-Kerri crossing, is blue or brown hair dominant, because one of them is heterozygous, unless there's some complex, multigene inheritance that codes for anime hair color.

I'd suggest Amarcians are like Calico cats.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I love that. I've always wondered how anime-hair color inheritance worked and which were dominant/recessive traits. For the Aston-Kerri crossing, is blue or brown hair dominant, because one of them is heterozygous, unless there's some complex, multigene inheritance that codes for anime hair color.

I'd suggest Amarcians are like Calico cats.

Haha, thanks. Though I see Asbel as more of a redhead, just not as bright red as Pascal.

As for the calico cat analogy, I don't think so. Calico cats are patchwork, while there's a relatively even line of demarcation for Amarcian hair (I think it's fair to call them a separate race, at least for the purposes of discussion). So what could it be? A separate epistatic gene.

Or, instead of calico cats, think Siamese cats. Perhaps Amarcians have a separate gene, independent of hair color. This gene produces a protein that suppresses the hair color, instead making the hair appear white. But as time passes and their hair grows out, the protein degrades and the true hair color begins to be exposed. So, Pascal's actually a redhead, but the epistatic gene masks her hair color until enough time passes and the protein degrades, which is why only the ends of her hair, the part's that grown the longest, is red.

The problem is that since Amarcians are a relatively homogeneous race, it's safe to assume that Pascal is homozygous for this gene. So we have no idea if this epistatic gene is dominant, recessive, codominant, or incompletely dominant with the normal solid-haired version of the gene.

Unless she has a kid with a solid-haired person, whom we know is homozygous for the normal gene. Then we see the hair color of the kid, and we know how the epistatic gene is inherited. Let's pick Hubert as the father; he seems like a very willing candidate :smalltongue: (and now I really wish I had drawings to go along with this, like a chalkboard diagram of punnet squares or something along with their commentary.)

First, let's call the dual-toned gene D and the solid-toned gene S. Let's also assume that blue hair is dominant to red hair, Hubert passes down the blue hair gene even though that means he's heterozygous for it, and that all genes are somatic instead of sex-linked.

So since blue is dominant to red, we know that Hubert and Pascal's kid will have blue hair. But where will the dual-tone whiteness play into it?

Hubert's alleles are BbSS, where B is blue, b is red, and S is the solid-toned epistatic gene. We know it's Bb because his brother is bb, his father is bb, and his mother is Bb. We can assume the epistatic gene is SS because the Amarcians are a relatively insular race.

Pascal's alleles are bbDD, for similar reasons as above.

So if they have a kid, and we assume that Hubert passes down B and not b, then their child's alleles are BbDS.

If D is dominant to S, then their child will have dual-toned blue hair, white on top that turns blue as it grows out and the protein degrades.

If S is dominant to D, then the protein production is suppressed and the child has solid-shaded blue hair.

If D is codominant to S, then the child will have mottled hair. Some strands of hair will be dual-toned, and other strands of hair will be solid-toned.

If D is incompletely dominant to S, then the child will have slightly shaded hair. Instead of white turning to blue, the protein will only have a partial effect and the child will have light blue hair turning to blue. And that's the difference between codominance and incompletel dominance.

I have put way too much thought into this. Sorry for sharing my silliness with you. I'll return to Xillia now.

[Shekinah]

Maybe I should take Rezzy's earlier advice and stop posting in here while I'm playing Xillia. Because a.) I don't want to reveal any spoilers, or even things that could be interpreted as spoilers, and b.) when it comes to complaints, I see people who have had complaints about previous Tales games. I've disagreed with the complaints, but I didn't tell people to relax or anything on the issue or to just "accept it." People are allowed to have opinions, and I respect that, and was honestly looking forward to another dialogue about it, but I guess that's not gonna happen anymore.

I'm not trying to come across as passive-aggressive, so please don't misunderstand my intentions here. The point I want to get across is that you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can disagree with me on this, and I welcome you to, but please do not try to silence me or anyone else on the issue.

And for the record, there are many worse forums that have nothing but complaint threads than GITP. If you're feeling adventurous, take a glance at the cess pool that is World of Warcraft General Discussion or the Story Forums, or brave through GameFAQs discussion boards.

I want to address this as civilly as possible and I hope I've succeeded. If not, I apologize in advance to Rezkeshdadesh if this thread gets locked and/or deleted on my account.

Best wishes to you all,

Shekinah the Piece-of-Wood-Obsessed Ginger Bard

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well that got serious all of a sudden.

If you want to leave until the games done then that's fine. I'm staying on as long as people are good with spoilers. But I didn't get a hostile tone from it, more of a teasing one. But that's just me and I could be wrong.

I do agree I would have liked a dialogue though.

[Sylthia]

Well that got serious all of a sudden.

If you want to leave until the games done then that's fine. I'm staying on as long as people are good with spoilers. But I didn't get a hostile tone from it, more of a teasing one. But that's just me and I could be wrong.

I do agree I would have liked a dialogue though.

Don't worry Coffee, she's fine. It wasn't directed at you. Your posts are well-thought out and appreciated. The problem with a text-based medium is that it's hard to judge tone and joking, sarcasm, etc. Something meant in good fun can be taken the wrong way easily. I'll just leave it at that.

In other news. I probably won't get to playing much for a bit. I had to meet with a surgical hardware rep tonight, and this weekend is D&D, then more call next week, so might be a while before I can finish Xillia. It's hard to resist the urge to discuss the game, when I know it may lead to spoilers.

So far, I like parts of the battle system, but wish they had kept the CC system of Graces. The graphics are nice, but seem less cartoony than other Tales games. It's hard to explain, but some faces look very anime-ish whereas other faces look more realistic and don't look like they're from the same game. It's nice to be able to move the camera, but I've found myself getting lost a bit easier in Xillia so far.

[Zevox]

So far, I like parts of the battle system, but wish they had kept the CC system of Graces.
Well, as far as limiting your actions, they did. I really do wish they had kept the branching normals with unique effects, though. Normals definitely seem to be completely interchangeable basic attacks again, which is disappointing.

I'm starting to find that the game is too easy personally, though. I even turned it up to hard, and that mostly seems to have resulted in enemies taking a lot more hits. They don't even seem to deal that much more damage. Which is really surprising, since I've always had a lot of trouble with Tales-series hard difficulty before. Granted a lot of that had to do with the AI previous running straight for my casters, which isn't so much of an issue here with Jude and Alvin as my current healers and Milla getting close-range versions of her spells, but still.

[Sylthia]

To clarify, I liked the TP-less CC system. We've always been limited to a point with the combos. I also noticed hard wasn't as hard as past games, where I'd get murdered if I tried to it too early. I don't think I've actually had a KO yet.

There also doesn't seem to be any bonus for playing on higher difficulty, unlike past games, especially Graces. It doesn't give you any post-battle breakdown, and I haven't noticed any dramatic difference in the XP between difficulties.

[Airk]

"Your mana lobe is in tip-top shape."

Which means that Jude has studied anatomy and physiology. He's studied neurology, neurological diseases, their effects on the body, their relationships with other organ systems, environmental effects, and what medications and spells to use. He probably has several books with titles like "Illustrated Atlas of The Human Neural System: Physiology and Pathology," and none of those are exactly light reading. Now take this and expand it to every organ system in the body, from cardiovascular to lymphatic to renal and everything in between. And add a thesis on top of it, which means Jude is spending nearly all his time either on clinical rotations, studying, or in the lab doing research. He probably lives on a diet of ramen and caffeine. Mostly caffeine.

What makes you think ANY of this is true? Seriously.



It's not a serious problem, just one that's glaring to me because it's my career choice (veterinary medicine goes along a very similar track as human medicine, and I want to do a residency and specialize in either surgery or emergency medicine. I'll be almost 30 by the time I'm done).

And when you're done, you still won't be able to heal broken bones by chanting a spell at them, which Jude can probably already do. Relevancy? None.

Re: This thread. I would prefer if people keep the spoilers out for a while, or at least, tagged, because people are playing through the game at different rates. Regarding opinions, I think the point of this forum is to discuss them. If you're not prepared to defend yours, you probably need to spend more time thinking about them and less time posting them. ;P

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thanks, Rez (is it okay if I call you that?). Honestly, I'm a bit pissed that they put in both the ac and the tp systems. Now there's two different ways that I can't attack; why did you constrain my actions twice? I do like the link system though.

However, I think my biggest complaint has to be the camera. It's too zoomed in on my character! Why can't it be zoomed out and more of a birds-eye view than in the other games? It makes it really easy for me to get lost and miss things. And I can't see enough of the environment , which is beautiful.

[Airk]

Camera does seem kinda too close. =/ Game is gorgeous. Would like to see more of it at once.

[danzibr]

I've only played Symphonia and Symphonia 2.

I liked Symphonia quite a bit. The plot had ADHD but it was a fun game.

Symphonia 2 was... good. I really liked the monster system. And that you got the original crew, but they ruined the second aspect because the original cast doesn't level up. I think its plot was actually better.

I think that duology would've been *far* better had they actually planned it to be a duology. It's really obvious they slapped the second together after the first.

[CoffeeIncluded]

You might want to play Phantasia. Even though it's the first game in the series it's a distant sequel to Symphonia. And I mean really distant.

[Airk]

You might want to play Phantasia. Even though it's the first game in the series it's a distant sequel to Symphonia. And I mean really distant.

As in "so distant that you kindof need to be told it's a sequel" really.

I think danzibr is the first person I've really ever heard praise Symphonia 2. For me the, the whole 'monster system' is an immediate turn off. Given the choice between a party member or a monster of some sort, I will ALWAYS choose a party member.

[Sylthia]

Thanks, Rez (is it okay if I call you that?). Honestly, I'm a bit pissed that they put in both the ac and the tp systems. Now there's two different ways that I can't attack; why did you constrain my actions twice? I do like the link system though.

However, I think my biggest complaint has to be the camera. It's too zoomed in on my character! Why can't it be zoomed out and more of a birds-eye view than in the other games? It makes it really easy for me to get lost and miss things. And I can't see enough of the environment , which is beautiful.

Sure, Rez is fine. I've had the same problem with the camera, when me and Skekinah play together, sometimes is will zoom in on me and she can't see what she's doing.

Regarding ToS2, it wasn't a bad game, but it had a lot to live up to. I didn't like the fact that the party members did not level at all while you had them and there seemed to be a revolving door guest party member system.

[Zevox]

I haven't had any problem with the camera, personally.

Though is it just me, or do Milla's Free Shift and Stable Shift skills do nothing? The description for the former seems to indicate it should make her close-range spells cost no tp, but it doesn't. And there's no extra cost for using the close-range versions that it's eliminating. And the latter reads like it makes her immune to staggering when charging a spell, but it doesn't.

Am I missing something with those, or are they bugged? :smallconfused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Holy freaking crap! :smalleek:

That fort level just before the end of part 1?

I thought the bomb collars and hex runes were going to be part of a dungeon puzzle mechanic, where you had to evade the hex runes by going around them.

I wasn't expecting them to actually blow up Milla!

[Teutonic Knight]

And then I spoiled myself Coffee. Welp, I'll be looking forward to figuring out what you mean when I get to that part in the game.

No camera problems. Close up camera allows me to see hidden Aifread treasures in trees.

And I understand your confusion Zevox. As far as I know, Milla's quick-release spells don't cost extra TP, so I don't know what's wrong with Free Shift.

And finally, as part of my induction to the Tales of Thread, a shameless self-plug for my webcomic (link in sig), which is a parody/homage to the Tales system/certain JRPGs in general. Looking deeper, it's actually a solo attempt at creating an entire Tales game. :smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hey, I put the observation into the spoiler box for a reason! :smalltongue:

Anyway, not spoiler, but about a character who appears near the end of part one.

I actually really like the interactions between Jude and Leia. Sure, they tell us that the two are childhood friends, but I think the game does a pretty good job of showing it too. They share a similar moveset and fighting style, in some victory poses they move in perfect sync, some of their moves are identical, and you can easily see that the have a pre-established relationship.

I think they did a better job with this than with Asbel and Cheria (although I do know that part of the thing with Asbel and Cheria was that their ties were ripped apart seven years ago and now you're trying to repair them). I like it!

[Sylthia]

I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but the text in Tales games seems to get harder to read in every subsequent game. I wish there was a way to make the text a bit bigger, or at least change its backdrop.

[Zevox]

I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, but the text in Tales games seems to get harder to read in every subsequent game. I wish there was a way to make the text a bit bigger, or at least change its backdrop.
Seems fine to me. Are you perhaps playing it on a standard def TV? I remember that I would have an issue with X-Box 360 games designed with HD alone in mind seeming to have very small text on a standard-def TV, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was true for PS3 too.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yeah, you're gonna want to put it on hd if you can. So much better.

[Sylthia]

Unfortunately, I do not have an HD TV, kinda wish there was a low-def mode.

[Airk]

Unfortunately, I do not have an HD TV, kinda wish there was a low-def mode.

They're pleasantly inexpensive these days, and new Tales games really do look gorgeous on them.

I feel your pain though - ToV was a pain in the ass on the old CRT TV that I first played it on. Text was readable, but all of the D-pad indicators were completely smudged out of readability, so it was like "Push :smallfrown: to go into overlimit, push :smallfrown: to do this other thing, push :smallfrown: to use ALL your overlimit bars! Rar!"

@_@

A low def mode is an interesting concept; It probably wouldn't even be that much work if it only adjusted the text, but I'm afraid you, my friend, are representative of a rapidly dwindling slice of the market.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay, raise your hand if you also figured (spoilers!)

that Alvin was the Designated Tales Traitor.

Though it really doesn't look like hell be let off as easily as in other games. I don't know for sure yet, I just fought Presa and Wingul.

Also, I don't think they're all the way human. And is anyone else getting Abyss God-generals vibes from them?

[Sylthia]

Okay, raise your hand if you also figured (spoilers!)

that Alvin was the Designated Tales Traitor.

Though it really doesn't look like hell be let off as easily as in other games. I don't know for sure yet, I just fought Presa and Wingul.

Also, I don't think they're all the way human. And is anyone else getting Abyss God-generals vibes from them?

Not there yet, but suspected heavily once I saw a certain skit.

Darn Teepo, why do you have to be so annoying? Guess there's also a near-mandatory annoying character per Tales game.

In a completely unrelated topic, does anybody have a Tales character that resembles them in real life? For me, Malik fits the bill pretty well. (At least before my receding hairline took over.) Blond hair and I even had the same beard style for quite a while.

[Zevox]

You should probably give an indication of when it's safe to open that spoiler, Coffee. What little you said outside of it leaves me with no idea about that. I know you're further than me though, since I just today reached the fort you mentioned a few days ago, so likely not safe for me now.

I will say though, it doesn't look to me so far like there's likely to be much difference between picking Jude or Milla as your main character at the start. They meet up so early and so far stick together. I just recently reached a point where they're separated, but only briefly. Unless that becomes a lot more common later on, I'm not seeing what the point of that feature was, really. :smallconfused:

[CoffeeIncluded]

You should probably give an indication of when it's safe to open that spoiler, Coffee. What little you said outside of it leaves me with no idea about that. I know you're further than me though, since I just today reached the fort you mentioned a few days ago, so likely not safe for me now.

Sorry. You can open the spoiler after you finish the fort. It should be fairly obvious what's inside at that point though. :smalltongue:


I will say though, it doesn't look to me so far like there's likely to be much difference between picking Jude or Milla as your main character at the start. They meet up so early and so far stick together. I just recently reached a point where they're separated, but only briefly. Unless that becomes a lot more common later on, I'm not seeing what the point of that feature was, really. :smallconfused:

I think I'm almost done with chapter 3 of 4 (the party's level 46ish; I'm powering through the game since i want it done when I get back to college), and while they do spend much of the game together, there are definitely quite a few scenes where they're split up. And I'm going to replay the game as Milla just to see what happened in those scenes I missed. In fact, just a couple hours ago I played through a sequence where Milla and Jude were separated; very different things happened on each side.

Say, what's everybody's preferred party? Mine is Jude, Milla, Alvin, and Leia.

[Zevox]

Sorry. You can open the spoiler after you finish the fort. It should be fairly obvious what's inside at that point though. :smalltongue:
Damn it, should have been more specific. I meant your most recent one, not the one about the fort. Couldn't avoid seeing that first sentence. :smallfrown:

Though yeah, I had guessed that may be the case earlier, given the events at the Seafalls and a certain line from the villains afterward. Well, and
all the mystery carrier-pigeon letters on top of that.


Say, what's everybody's preferred party? Mine is Jude, Milla, Alvin, and Leia.
I haven't met Leia yet, but recently I've been using Milla, Jude, Rowen, and Elize. I doubt I'll drop Milla (who has been the character I've used personally the most) or Elize (healer), but the others I expect I'll rotate, to keep everyone's level mostly even.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh crap, I'm sorry about that, Zevox. :smallfrown:

It's kinda funny though. The past couple of games I haven't been using the mages as much (Pascal rotated with Cheria and Sophie for the remaining two spots since Asbel and Hubert NEVER left the party, and I don't use Rowan as much here) in the later tales games, while earlier Tales games? Arche, Genis, Jade, and Rita never ever ever left the main party unless there was a plot event. And if that happened, it was Oh Crap I've Lost The Mage Time.

Then again, Milla's a spellcaster too, so it's not like I have no mage in the party.

[Zevox]

Oh wow, just had a really difficult battle (shortly after the fort).
Jude's duel with Ivar (Milla's handmaiden). I'm still playing on hard, and damn, he was rough. In part because it was hard to find a safe moment to heal, even with items, but more so because he gets armor that seems to kick in at random. Even in the middle of the combo it would pop back up and let him hit me. Had to be very careful about my actions to beat him, use that backstep-teleport of Jude's a lot, and I still barely managed it.

In other words, it was a good fight.

Edit: Ugh, one good boss, followed by one very bad one.
That goddamn giant rock worm boss has got to be the worst boss battle I've seen in quite a while - easily the worst in a Tales game. The way it can just spend so much time attacking us from underground, where we can't even try to touch it, and remains completely invincible for its entire recovery animation when emerging from the ground to stop that attack, just makes fighting it one long headache. Especially since your AI allies are not smart enough to block when it's doing the underground attacks :smallsigh: . And since it can go right back into those attacks after emerging for just a split second, sometimes giving you only enough of a window to land a couple of normal attacks before it's already invincible again.

And the worst part was that you have to beat it twice, and the second time around it's much harder, even though you have Milla to help. I am so glad I had earth resistance skills and items on Jude and Milla, because otherwise I might have lost, and I seriously never want to have to do that again. If I ever replay this game, I am definitely dropping the difficulty to easy for that boss, just to breeze past it as quickly as can be. :smallmad:


It's kinda funny though. The past couple of games I haven't been using the mages as much (Pascal rotated with Cheria and Sophie for the remaining two spots since Asbel and Hubert NEVER left the party, and I don't use Rowan as much here) in the later tales games, while earlier Tales games? Arche, Genis, Jade, and Rita never ever ever left the main party unless there was a plot event. And if that happened, it was Oh Crap I've Lost The Mage Time.

Then again, Milla's a spellcaster too, so it's not like I have no mage in the party.
I really like how they handled Milla, allowing her to fight both as a regular mage and as a melee character quite well, but still using magic when in close. Kinda makes me feel like the only reason to have Rowen around is to have two mages, really.

As for previous games, I did typically keep Genis and Jade in my party at all times. Actually, in Symphonia I tended to pick four characters and use them at all times ignoring the rest - typically Lloyd, Kratos, Genis, and Raine, with Presea filling in for Kratos when he was unavailable. (Yes, I know Zelos was basically the same as Kratos combat-wise. I just didn't like him.) I only ever used Lloyd in that one, because I didn't figure out you could use the others outside the arena until I'd played through the game several times, and was so comfortable with Lloyd that switching to the others felt like it just made things frustratingly hard.

Similarly, in Abyss I basically ignored Guy and Anise, and always used the other four, with me controlling Natalia, or Jade when she wasn't available.

In Vesperia I usually brought Rita as well (and was even playing as her during my second time through; first time I was strictly Yuri), though I rotated the party much more in that one.

In Graces my stable party members were Sophie (who I used, substituting Hubert when she wasn't available) and Cheria (healer), and the others rotated I rotated - though I always had one physical character (Asbel or Hubert) and one magical one (Malik or Pascal) in the remaining slots.

[Lord Raziere]

GITP, no fun allowed zone

A-Friggin-GREED.

like, you have no idea. I go into a thread about a subject I actually like, and its eventually nit-picking, nit-picking, nit-picking, which ruins the whole deal for me. always have to ruining everything by pointing it out, can't just leave it be...

[Sylthia]

I have to say, I'm a big fan of being able to quick jump just about anywhere in Xillia. Especially having it available so early in the game. It makes the back-tracking they often expect you to do in RPGs a lot more tolerable.

[Zevox]

I have to say, I'm a big fan of being able to quick jump just about anywhere in Xillia. Especially having it available so early in the game. It makes the back-tracking they often expect you to do in RPGs a lot more tolerable.
It is nice, though I kinda of wish they had put it in as a spell, like other JRPGs do, rather than as an unexplained and arbitrary mechanic on the world map.

And damn, I've run into a brutal boss. (Not really a spoiler, it's just a random monster.) A giant warthog called the Brutaur. Damn thing does ridiculous damage, seems able to ignore hitstun from anything but water attacks (its only weakness, which I have very few moves for, and no linked artes, at least with Milla), and barely takes any damage from anything but water attacks. My first time against it I used a ton of items, including one that fully restores the entire party's hp and sp (even from KO), and still only took it down to about half health. I think I might have to drop the difficulty to pass it. :smallfrown:

[CoffeeIncluded]

I just started chapter 4 of 4. I don't think my jaw has left the floor for the past 45 minutes. Admittedly I was able to guess some of it, but the rest? Holy ****!

[Zevox]

How do you tell where these "chapters" start and end, by the way? I could probably figure it out in retrospect after finishing the game, like I could with Vesperia, but in the middle of it, it's not so clear.

[Teutonic Knight]

About the mages and not-mages, I believe that in Xillia they made everyone balanced in the way that even mages can run into the melee. Not stats-wise, but each mage has enough melee skills that they can be played by the player as a melee character. Coupled with the fact that linking makes the mage run into the fray and flanking/guard, and the fact that you can freely swap around party members in battle, I don't think you necessarily need to have "a mage" and "a healer", which is cool.

As for party combinations:

Symphonia: Lloyd, Genis, Raine, swappable 4th

Abyss: Luke, Guy, Tear, Jade

Vesperia: Yuri, Rita, Estelle, swappable 4th that was mostly Judith

Graces: I was title grinding the entire game, so I kept swapping out party members to finish leveling their titles.

@^ above discussion: Tales games are usually split into three arcs, I believe. Such as Abyss:
Akzeriuth, Van, Van
and Vesperia:
Barbaros, Alexei, Duke

[Sylthia]

I feel silly. I had gotten all the way to the fort before realizing I had been playing the whole game up to that point without having any skills equipped.

I'm liking Jude as a protagonist. He's showing his intelligence in practical situations pretty well. I haven't even gotten close to finishing yet, but he does seem to suffer a bit from tag-along protagonist syndrome a bit.

I do like the way they portray med school/clinics, it seems pretty close to real life, or as close to it as you'll get in a fantasy RPG. I still think Jude's a bit young for med school, but that's neither here nor there.

For parties: I switch quite a bit, but for the most part...

Phantasia: Cress, Mint, Klarth, Arche
Symphonia: Lloyd, Raine, Kratos/Zelos, Rotate
Legendia: Senel, Chloe mostly, Rotate, Rotate (I didn't really have a concrete party at all)
Abyss: Luke, Tear, Jade, Guy/Natalia (Never Anise unless I had to)
Symphonia 2: Emil, Marta, Whatever human NPC was available at the time
Vesperia: Yuri, Estelle, Rita, Rotate
Graces: Asbel, Cheria, Rotate for the last two, but we used Richard whenever he was available

I think I got all the games I've played, but I might have missed one.

[Zevox]

Whew, well, I managed to beat the Brutaur without dropping the difficulty. But it took a lot. I had to completely change my party - I switched to controlling Rowen, so I could spam water spells (Milla only has splash, but he has that and a second-tier one, and he has a water linked arte with Jude that Milla doesn't have), and the rest of my team was Jude and Alvin because they're the toughest front-liners, and Elize for healing.

Worked pretty well for the first half, but I swear that boss becomes even stronger in the second. He was able to nearly wipe the party on multiple occasions, and I used up all my life bottles and several more precious revival items to beat him. Doesn't help that he started summoning friends, who of course were resistant to water, so the spells I was lobbing at the Brutaur itself were little help in clearing them out.

Still, I managed it, if barely, which is far more than I expected after never getting past the halfway point earlier.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Whew, well, I managed to beat the Brutaur without dropping the difficulty. But it took a lot. I had to completely change my party - I switched to controlling Rowen, so I could spam water spells (Milla only has splash, but he has that and a second-tier one, and he has a water linked arte with Jude that Milla doesn't have), and the rest of my team was Jude and Alvin because they're the toughest front-liners, and Elize for healing.

Worked pretty well for the first half, but I swear that boss becomes even stronger in the second. He was able to nearly wipe the party on multiple occasions, and I used up all my life bottles and several more precious revival items to beat him. Doesn't help that he started summoning friends, who of course were resistant to water, so the spells I was lobbing at the Brutaur itself were little help in clearing them out.

Still, I managed it, if barely, which is far more than I expected after never getting past the halfway point earlier.

Ah, my strategy was linking with Alvin and spamming Sharp Current.

Another good way to tell when the chapters or parts end is when the battle music changes! Though the battle music doesn't change between chapters 2 and 3 in Xillia, you KNOW when the second chapter ends and the third chapter begins.

Anyway, I actually stopped at a good place today. And I can't wait to finish the game. Or Xillia 2.

[Sylthia]

I'm pleasantly surprised with the amount of in game attachments for the characters that are not DLC. I wish there were more free costumes, but it's a step up from Graces, where I think there were 3 you could actually get without shelling out money on DLC.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Same here!

Say, for attachments, do you go for silly or subtle? I prefer subtle attachments that I feel add to the character's appearance--for example, those thin glasses for Jude or the sheathed dagger of Milla or the backpack for Leia.

Also, I've got to say that one of the scenes that was in the middle of my jawdrop sequence was quite disturbing.

[Sylthia]

Same here!

Say, for attachments, do you go for silly or subtle? I prefer subtle attachments that I feel add to the character's appearance--for example, those thin glasses for Jude or the sheathed dagger of Milla or the backpack for Leia.

Also, I've got to say that one of the scenes that was in the middle of my jawdrop sequence was quite disturbing.

We've gone for the elf party, and put the elf ears on every character, which makes it looks almost like a Zelda game or some Elf RP. Other than that, I put Sunglasses on Jude and Alvin, and the straw hat I got from Milla's swimsuit DLC onto Elize. We have the alternate colors for Alvin and Elize as well.

The only DLC we've got so far is the swimsuit costume for Milla, since we didn't really care for what she had available in game.

[Zevox]

Another good way to tell when the chapters or parts end is when the battle music changes! Though the battle music doesn't change between chapters 2 and 3 in Xillia, you KNOW when the second chapter ends and the third chapter begins.
Ah. I honestly don't really notice the battle music. I mean, I assume I finished chapter 1 back at the fort and am now in chapter 2, yet I can't say I even noticed a change in battle music.


Say, for attachments, do you go for silly or subtle? I prefer subtle attachments that I feel add to the character's appearance--for example, those thin glasses for Jude or the sheathed dagger of Milla or the backpack for Leia.
I don't actually use attachments, personally. I tried a few of them early in the game, and briefly in Vesperia if memory serves, and I just don't like them. I'd rather just stick with the appearance the designers gave the characters in the first place.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I don't actually use attachments, personally. I tried a few of them early in the game, and briefly in Vesperia if memory serves, and I just don't like them. I'd rather just stick with the appearance the designers gave the characters in the first place.

Yeah, that's why I prefer the subtle ones. It ruins the dramatic scenes if the characters are in swimsuits and bunny ears, you know?

But yeah, I'm still pretty surprised over what happened in the game last night. I'm really interested where this will take his character development and I can't wait for Xillia 2.

Vague spoilers, spoiled just in case.
After all, when you hit rock bottom and have absolutely nothing left, where else do you have to go but up?

[Airk]

Ah. I honestly don't really notice the battle music. I mean, I assume I finished chapter 1 back at the fort and am now in chapter 2, yet I can't say I even noticed a change in battle music.

Yeah; This method doesn't do me any good either - I will eventually notice that "Hey, the battle music has been different for a while now." but I NEVER notice when it happens.



I don't actually use attachments, personally. I tried a few of them early in the game, and briefly in Vesperia if memory serves, and I just don't like them. I'd rather just stick with the appearance the designers gave the characters in the first place.

It really depends on the attachment. Some of them can be very cute and character appropriate (Estelle's glasses in Vesperia come to mind), some of them are cool but relatively unobtrusive (most of the arm/hip attachments, like the canteens in Vesperia, or the Ba'uul doll in Xillia) and some of them help fix otherwise terrible character designs (Karol's pipe & moustache in Vesperia (together with his absurd 'lumberjack' costume) transformed him from "God I hate you so much" to "Well, at least now you're ridiculous.")

I'm really displeased with the apparent number of free costumes in Xillia though. It's apparently a step DOWN from Graces, which was already sadly lacking.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Exactly! I think Jude looks good with glasses, and a backpack is appropriate for Leia because of her item stealing and use mechanics.

As for Karol's design, did you get his warehouse costume title? The one with the bomber jacket? I thought that was a nice design.

I also liked the glasses on Estelle, and the little green charm on Rita.

[Airk]

As for Karol's design, did you get his warehouse costume title? The one with the bomber jacket? I thought that was a nice design.

I think that's actually the one I'm laughing at. It was an improvement, I guess, but the hat made it silly.

And yeah, to clarify my "worse than Graces for costumes" apparently Xillia has 4 ingame costumes. Not 4 SETS. 4. Two for Milla, one each for Jude and Alvin. And that's IT.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Where and how do you get those?

[Airk]

Where and how do you get those?

One each for beating the Jude/Milla storylines.
The other two are bought from the Black Feather vendor for 100 feathers each, I believe.

[CoffeeIncluded]

One each for beating the Jude/Milla storylines.
The other two are bought from the Black Feather vendor for 100 feathers each, I believe.

Oh, I should probably take a look when I get home. Thanks! Ugh, but now I need to get 200 more black feathers. I had that many and spent them all without realizing I could get the costume. :smallfrown:

Say, how far into the game are you?

[Sylthia]

I'm not a fan of the lack of costumes either, but at least we got lots of attachments. Unfortunately, it seems to be the way games are headed with DLC.

[Airk]

Oh, I should probably take a look when I get home. Thanks! Ugh, but now I need to get 200 more black feathers. I had that many and spent them all without realizing I could get the costume. :smallfrown:

I got lucky and looked at the rewards on offer and said "maybe later." so I still have my feathers.


Say, how far into the game are you?

Not very; Amazon took their sweet ass time shipping my copy (literally, it sat in "shipping now" until LAST FRIDAY) so it didn't show up until Monday. I sent them a crabby mail about it, saying, basically, "Yes, I know I didn't pick the 'get it to me the day it comes out' shipping option, but I expect it to at least go INTO THE MAIL the same day it comes out." They gave me a $10 credit. :P

So I've actually only had about two days of playing, since I had other commitments last night.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Damn, that sucks. And to make things worse I dunno if there are even 200 feathers left in my play through without grinding, which I do not have time for. This sucks. I suck.

[Sylthia]

Yeah, that's why I prefer the subtle ones. It ruins the dramatic scenes if the characters are in swimsuits and bunny ears, you know?

But yeah, I'm still pretty surprised over what happened in the game last night. I'm really interested where this will take his character development and I can't wait for Xillia 2.

Vague spoilers, spoiled just in case.
After all, when you hit rock bottom and have absolutely nothing left, where else do you have to go but up?

I don't usually go through in the swimsuits, at least not the first playthrough, but Milla's default is pretty close already.

[Airk]

I don't usually go through in the swimsuits, at least not the first playthrough, but Milla's default is pretty close already.

A lot of the goofy stuff used to be 2nd playthrough only anyway.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Probably the third play through in this case. New game plus is on Milla's side.

[Sylthia]

I'm looking forward to see it from Milla's side especially since so far Jude seems more like a supporting character anyway.

Also...
I wonder how they handle the Milla being a paraplegic arc.

[CoffeeIncluded]

You'll see, Rez!

Uggh, I only have about 7ish hours left in the game. It's so close I can taste it. And I'm going on vacation tomorrow, will be gone for 10 days, and am returning to college the day after I return. I literally have one day to finish the game. Talk about cutting it close!

You know what I was disappointed about? (VERY LATE GAME SPOILERS (albeit relatively minor spoilers), only open after beating the Spyrix Research Factory)

Why the hell didn't they have Fighting The Spirit as the boss music when you fought Celcius and Volt?!

[Sylthia]

You'll see, Rez!

Uggh, I only have about 7ish hours left in the game. It's so close I can taste it. And I'm going on vacation tomorrow, will be gone for 10 days, and am returning to college the day after I return. I literally have one day to finish the game. Talk about cutting it close!

You know what I was disappointed about? (VERY LATE GAME SPOILERS (albeit relatively minor spoilers), only open after beating the Spyrix Research Factory)

Why the hell didn't they have Fighting The Spirit as the boss music when you fought Celcius and Volt?!

Yeah, I figured he'd probably grow a bit in terms of plot relevance, I'm actually liking Jude among the best of the Tales protagonists. The Tales series is usually pretty good about that. e.g. Lloyd.

I'm still woefully behind you, I think I'm in what would be considered part 2. The ER's been really hopping this week and every time I seem to sit down, I get called in. When they say "Can you take a call from the ER?" I'd like to say "No, I'm playing Tales right now." But they frown upon that sort of thing.

Just today I had to work up a kid who shot himself in the foot and shattered several bones for surgery tomorrow morning. I'm hoping this weekend I can get a bit of playtime in.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yeah, I figured he'd probably grow a bit in terms of plot relevance, I'm actually liking Jude among the best of the Tales protagonists. The Tales series is usually pretty good about that. e.g. Lloyd.

I'm still woefully behind you, I think I'm in what would be considered part 2. The ER's been really hopping this week and every time I seem to sit down, I get called in. When they say "Can you take a call from the ER?" I'd like to say "No, I'm playing Tales right now." But they frown upon that sort of thing.

You could just say it's medical work? Since Jude's a med student?


Just today I had to work up a kid who shot himself in the foot and shattered several bones for surgery tomorrow morning. I'm hoping this weekend I can get a bit of playtime in.

That sounds awesome. Horrible for the kid of course, but the reconstructive process must be fascinating!

Is it obvious I want to get into either surgery or emergency medicine? :smalltongue:

[Sylthia]

You could just say it's medical work? Since Jude's a med student?



That sounds awesome. Horrible for the kid of course, but the reconstructive process must be fascinating!

Is it obvious I want to get into either surgery or emergency medicine? :smalltongue:

Surgery and ER are both great, although the call schedule can be killer.

[Shekinah]

Is there ever a Tales dad who is actually represented as a good guy? So far the only one I sympathize with is Colette's dad.

[Bucky]

Is there ever a Tales dad who is actually represented as a good guy? So far the only one I sympathize with is Colette's dad.

You don't like Dirk?

[Sylthia]

You don't like Dirk?

She has a deep seated hatred for all things dwarf.

[Shekinah]

Considering that his idea of punishment is punching his "son" in the face or withholding food until he memorizes vows, no.

Although Anise's dad isn't necessarily bad, I suppose.

[Sylthia]

Anyone else get a FFX sphere grid vide from the Lillium Orb? Not that that's bad, I actually liked the sphere grid.

[Zevox]

Anyone else get a FFX sphere grid vide from the Lillium Orb? Not that that's bad, I actually liked the sphere grid.
Yes, though I think the Lilium Orb is substantially better than the sphere grid, since at least it allows you to meaningful choose in what order to pick up new abilities/stat boosts. The sphere grid didn't really do that, with everyone's path being almost completely linear and the ability to deviate from those paths being put behind locks that you largely had trouble opening until at least midway into the game, and which were of questionable practicality compared to just finishing your character's main path first.

That said, I didn't really mind the sphere grid myself either. I do agree with Spoony's criticism of it (and its FF13 counterpart, the Crystarium) though: if you're going to make the whole thing linear and relatively easy to fill out anyway, why bother? Just have the characters gain stats and abilities automatically like in every other RPG. Then you get the same effect without the player needing to do anything manually.

[Shekinah]

Anyone else get a FFX sphere grid vide from the Lillium Orb? Not that that's bad, I actually liked the sphere grid.

I get a Final Fantasy vibe when the handmaid shows up. Does that count?

[CoffeeIncluded]

I'm annoyed at how few gp you get to invest in the orb at later levels, though not much since it does make sense. I do like the mechanic though.

[Sylthia]

I'm annoyed at how few gp you get to invest in the orb at later levels, though not much since it does make sense. I do like the mechanic though.

I noticed it went from 3 GP to 4 to 5 back down to 4. Does it go back down even further, or does it tick back up again? Seems kind of odd to get less GP at higher levels.

Do you at least get to max out the grid at level 99?

[Zevox]

Sheesh, you guys must be a ways further than me. I haven't seen my gp gain go up past 4 yet. I was assuming that just started to look small compared to the number of nodes needed to encircle new skills as time goes on. It already takes me two levels to do that now.

[Sylthia]

Sheesh, you guys must be a ways further than me. I haven't seen my gp gain go up past 4 yet. I was assuming that just started to look small compared to the number of nodes needed to encircle new skills as time goes on. It already takes me two levels to do that now.

I think I'm around level 50 or so now and it's started to go back down. It peaked at 5 for me.

[Shekinah]

As much as I hate Teepo for his annoyance, I really like Elize. I like everyone in Xillia, really.

[Sylthia]

As much as I hate Teepo for his annoyance, I really like Elize. I like everyone in Xillia, really.

The best scene in the game is when Rowen lets Elize and Jude stroke his beard.

[Ulm11]

Just got the direct tethering skit and I have to say that it has to be one of the most funny tales skits I have ever seen.

[Shekinah]

The best scene in the game is when Rowen lets Elize and Jude stroke his beard.

That scene made me cry.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That scene made me cry.

Really? How come?

[Sylthia]

Really? How come?

Tears of joy, I assure you.

[Shekinah]

Tears of joy, I assure you.

Tears of despair.

Beards are evil, as OOTS has proven to us. And he made them touch it...

I still weep at the thought of poor Elize. So young and so innocent.

[Zevox]

The best scene in the game is when Rowen lets Elize and Jude stroke his beard.
If by "best" you mean "most awkward." Sheesh, that was weird.

Great thing I got recently: apparently when you give the black feather merchant a total of 100 feathers, he gives you a free Arte Orb, which allows you to set a second batch of artes to L1+direction+circle (or L1+right stick). Man is that a godsend, especially for a caster/melee character like Milla. So annoying having to change my artes when I need a different elemental spell.

[Sylthia]

If by "best" you mean "most awkward." Sheesh, that was weird.

Great thing I got recently: apparently when you give the black feather merchant a total of 100 feathers, he gives you a free Arte Orb, which allows you to set a second batch of artes to L1+direction+circle (or L1+right stick). Man is that a godsend, especially for a caster/melee character like Milla. So annoying having to change my artes when I need a different elemental spell.

But a beard is best when it is shared with the poor non-bearded souls.

It is nice to have the extra shortcuts. It almost gives you more shortcuts than moves. You'll also get an item to let you assign more auto-items.

[Zevox]

It is nice to have the extra shortcuts. It almost gives you more shortcuts than moves. You'll also get an item to let you assign more auto-items.
Yeah, I've already gotten a few of those. I don't use too many auto-items though.

But sheesh, just ran into another ridiculous boss battle. Spoilers for your return to Fenmont:
Agria, that girl you fought back at the start of the game. Holy ****. Not only does she rarely take hitstun from anything but water magic (and even that she seems able to just ignore sometimes), but she summons fire elementals in droves, and her attacks hurt like hell and cause burn more consistently than any other fire attacks I've seen. Oh, and she's the first boss able to use a mystic arte, which also hurts like hell and seems to always cause burn.

The kicker? She can heal herself with Lemon Gels. I don't think they give her the full 60% they do you, but they do enough that I was once shocked to see that, while I was off handling one of her elemental friends, her health had actually gone up from about 19k to over 40k, despite my allies fighting her for that period. That's out of a starting health of around 75k. :smallannoyed:

I eventually won, but damn, that was a ridiculous fight that took forever and cost me way too many items. Including an Omega Elixir...

[Sylthia]

I don't really need to use items for the most part, but you get titles by letting the AI do it, so I always try to keep stocked on apple and orange gels and have them use them once HP/TP dips below 70%.

[Demolator]

I was so close to getting Xillia, but then my buddy told me how awesome Abyss was and I went and got that as fast as I could. I've been playin' Symphonia though, it's so great. :smallbiggrin: I took my PS2 and Abyss with me to the beach though since I haven't played it much (because who needs the beach anyway).

[Zevox]

I don't really need to use items for the most part, but you get titles by letting the AI do it, so I always try to keep stocked on apple and orange gels and have them use them once HP/TP dips below 70%.
Meh, I stopped caring about titles when I realized that in this one they're nothing but an in-game version of achievements. I just wish I could turn off the notifications for them the way I can for actual achievements.

I did set auto-items to use apple/orange gels when stats drop below 20%, but that's just because I'd never use them otherwise, so I may as well. I don't actually stock up on them, they just come from random monster drops and chests. The main auto-item I actually use and keep stocked are Life Bottles, though I only ever need to restock them after a rough boss battle.

[Sylthia]

I was so close to getting Xillia, but then my buddy told me how awesome Abyss was and I went and got that as fast as I could. I've been playin' Symphonia though, it's so great. :smallbiggrin: I took my PS2 and Abyss with me to the beach though since I haven't played it much (because who needs the beach anyway).

I assume you mean you're hotel room, and not the actual beach? Symphonia and Abyss are both great games. I would almost recommend playing them in the order they came out if you can. It's hard to go back to the older battle systems once you've played the newer ones. The generally get better each game (the battle system).


Meh, I stopped caring about titles when I realized that in this one they're nothing but an in-game version of achievements. I just wish I could turn off the notifications for them the way I can for actual achievements.

I did set auto-items to use apple/orange gels when stats drop below 20%, but that's just because I'd never use them otherwise, so I may as well. I don't actually stock up on them, they just come from random monster drops and chests. The main auto-item I actually use and keep stocked are Life Bottles, though I only ever need to restock them after a rough boss battle.

I don't care as much about the titles themselves, but they are the way you get grade in Xillia, so it's good to get as many as you can if you plan on doing a new game plus.

[Shekinah]

About the red-clad girl...
Anyone else think Agria is like a distaff counterpart of Zagi?

[A Rainy Knight]

Can someone explain to me what "grade" and "titles" are? I hear about them a lot and I see that "Grade +0.74" or whatever after each battle, but I still haven't been able to figure out what they are in-game.

[Zevox]

I don't care as much about the titles themselves, but they are the way you get grade in Xillia, so it's good to get as many as you can if you plan on doing a new game plus.
Well, at least they're not totally useless, then. Still, I don't do much with grade in most cases myself.


About the red-clad girl...
Anyone else think Agria is like a distaff counterpart of Zagi?
Well, she's certainly crazy enough to be, that's for sure.


Can someone explain to me what "grade" and "titles" are? I hear about them a lot and I see that "Grade +0.74" or whatever after each battle, but I still haven't been able to figure out what they are in-game.
Grade is a score you gain over the course of the game for doing various things, which you can trade in for benefits when starting a New Game+. For instance, you can typically spend grade to import your known artes, known skills, held items, or character level, as well as things like getting a multiplier to all experience and/or gald you acquire.

Titles are a mechanic that seems to have been in every Tales game (that I've played, anyway), though only sometimes does it mean anything. In Symphonia and I think Abyss titles affect how your stats grow, so equipping certain ones might result in higher scores in certain stats long-term. In other games they don't have any practical use, but they'll be announced with the character's name when competing in the game's Arena. In Xillia they seem to have been relegated to being an achievement system, and aren't even able to be attached to specific characters, which is pretty disappointing for me.

[Sylthia]

Can someone explain to me what "grade" and "titles" are? I hear about them a lot and I see that "Grade +0.74" or whatever after each battle, but I still haven't been able to figure out what they are in-game.

Grade is what you use to buy bonuses in new game plus, which is when you start a new game after beating it once. It's gained in different ways. Until Vesperia, it was mostly gained through doing well in battles. Starting with Graces it was gained through different ways, like getting titles.

Titles are things you gain by doing various things in-game and are sort of like achievements, but in most games, they have some sort of in-game value. In Symphonia, they give various stats a bonus during level up, in Graces, they are how you learn new moves, etc.

In many, but not all games, the costumes are also associated with a certain title.

EDIT: semi-ninja'd

[Ulm11]

Okay, raise your hand if you also figured (spoilers!)

that Alvin was the Designated Tales Traitor.

Though it really doesn't look like hell be let off as easily as in other games. I don't know for sure yet, I just fought Presa and Wingul.

Also, I don't think they're all the way human. And is anyone else getting Abyss God-generals vibes from them?

I know this is kind of old but I have to comment on this.

The first time I saw Alvin in the lab after the Lance of Kresnik sucked up the four I didn't trust him. Almost every time there was a villain on screen he could only make me trust him less, and by about the midpoint of the game I took of the sunglasses I put on him just so I could more clearly catch the next set of shifty looks between Alvin and whatever villain happened to be on screen at the time. I don't think I have ever seen a character suffering from a chronic backstabbing disorder like Alivn does.

The whole God-general vibe I definitely feel as well. For me it started when it seemed as though Elise and Jioa had a sort of similar dynamic as Largo and Natalia did, but as the various characters got revealed it seemed as though the only character really missing an opposite was Milla as I saw the weird link being stronger between Jude and Gaius.

On Gaius, was anybody caught completely off guard by the whole Jude will join me in time speech over Jude's comatose body?

[Airk]

Well, she's certainly crazy enough to be, that's for sure.

Zagi was such a total stupid throwaway trash character though; He didn't even really have anything to do with the plot, nor, indeed, any discernible personality other than "I kill j00, Yuri Lowell!"; Agria already seems like she actually has something to do with the story, which puts her out of Zagi's league, thank god.



Titles are a mechanic that seems to have been in every Tales game (that I've played, anyway), though only sometimes does it mean anything. In Symphonia and I think Abyss titles affect how your stats grow, so equipping certain ones might result in higher scores in certain stats long-term.

Stat growth in Abyss is done via Capacity Cores; Titles just give costumes and weird benefits like causing slow healing while running around the map.


In Xillia they seem to have been relegated to being an achievement system, and aren't even able to be attached to specific characters, which is pretty disappointing for me.

Maybe I'm just not enough of an Old School Tales Fan, but really, what difference does this make? It's not as if there's been any sort of lost functionality, and in games like Graces where there were so many damn titles, they lost all character specific meaning anyway, because you were pretty much only ever picking them for mechanical benefits, whereas in a game like Abyss, they didn't really do anything that most people would notice other than the costume titles. I guess it's a neat little character building 'feature' to give characters 'titles' that way, but it's certainly not something I would 'miss' or be disappointed by the lack of.

[Airk]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I think that if you're having problems with a boss (or anyone, really) healing themselves with items, having Leia steal the item in question seems to keep them from using it. Or at least, it worked for me.

The hard part can be getting a knockdown, but I was able to reliably knock down at least the boss mentioned earlier pretty easily with, of all things, Teepo Roar.

[Shekinah]

Zagi was such a total stupid throwaway trash character though; He didn't even really have anything to do with the plot, nor, indeed, any discernible personality other than "I kill j00, Yuri Lowell!"; Agria already seems like she actually has something to do with the story, which puts her out of Zagi's league, thank god.

You definitely have a point. Zagi could have been removed and no consequence would have come as far as the story is concerned. I think he was just there for comedy's sake based off the snark Yuri gives off about him/to him.

Doesn't stop me from referring to Agria as Zag-she. :P

[Zevox]

Stat growth in Abyss is done via Capacity Cores; Titles just give costumes and weird benefits like causing slow healing while running around the map.
Huh, I'm misremembering then. Still, I think there was another besides Symphonia that had them affect stats like that.


Maybe I'm just not enough of an Old School Tales Fan, but really, what difference does this make?
I rather like the idea of titles as something that can influence a character's stat gain myself. And however they're used, I'd like them to have some practical impact on things. In contrast, I dislike achievements for being basically pointless. Though as I mentioned, if titles in Xillia give you grade, at least they're one step above actual achievements in that respect. I'd still prefer something with a more immediate impact on the game to something that only kicks in on a New Game+, though.

Anyway, I wound having to drop the difficulty for a boss fight today.
Nachtigal. Yeah, I actually hadn't progressed much since the fight with Agria the other day, largely because of how rough that bastard was on hard. I had several occasions where he literally wiped my party completely from full health with his Mystic Arte. I could perhaps have won without the difficulty drop by being extremely patient, playing a very runaway-and-cast game, and using a bunch of items, but decided it wasn't worth it.

The contrast when I dropped to moderate difficulty was stark, let me tell you. He fell from 100k hp to 60k, took hitstun much easier, and wasn't able to wipe out a full-health character with his Mystic Arte anymore (though it did still hurt enough to kill one that was at 3/4 or so). Made him so much more manageable, yet still not completely lacking in challenge. If the rest of the boss fight proceed like the last few have, I may just have to kick the difficulty down to moderate for all of them, and just use hard for the normal fights.

[Airk]

You definitely have a point. Zagi could have been removed and no consequence would have come as far as the story is concerned. I think he was just there for comedy's sake based off the snark Yuri gives off about him/to him.

Technically, I think Zagi has relevance to the plot during his very first appearance, when he's actually there to kill FLYNN (who isn't even in the castle, or indeed, the CITY, so the big Z is not off to a strong start) and Yuri & Estelle just kinda smack him down because he decides to pick a fight with them instead.

As far as I'm concerned, he just should've stayed dead. His only other redeeming contribution to the game was setting up Judith for her deadpan "I really think you need to cut your ties with this 'Zagi' character." on board the Heracles, and one good line does not justify a throwaway character showing up and being stupid like six times. I mean, FFS, how did he even GET to Tarqaron?



Doesn't stop me from referring to Agria as Zag-she. :P

You are apparently not alone, as rumors have it that her 'code name' on the dev team, prior to her actually having a name and a place in the game was "Zagiraude" ;P

[Airk]

[quot=Zevox]And however they're used, I'd like them to have some practical impact on things. In contrast, I dislike achievements for being basically pointless.[/quote]

So if I'm reading this right, you would rather have had them removed entirely?

[Zevox]

So if I'm reading this right, you would rather have had them removed entirely?
Compared to their current incarnation? Yeah, more or less. It's not like we haven't had perfectly good mechanics for accumulating grade before, after all, there was no need to tack it on to this new achievement-like title system.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Also, I like being able to keep track of my grade.

[Airk]

Also, I like being able to keep track of my grade.

It's been a while, but I don't remember grade ever being "hidden information" in the games I've played...?

[Shekinah]

It's been a while, but I don't remember grade ever being "hidden information" in the games I've played...?

In previous Tales games it was hard to keep track of grade unless you recorded it after every battle. It was impossible to tell in Graces, since side-quests were how you earned grade in that (I think).

Gonna play around with Elize for a bit, see if the Teepo on/off thing helps with linked artes (particularly with Alvin).

[Sylthia]

In previous Tales games it was hard to keep track of grade unless you recorded it after every battle. It was impossible to tell in Graces, since side-quests were how you earned grade in that (I think).

Gonna play around with Elize for a bit, see if the Teepo on/off thing helps with linked artes (particularly with Alvin).

There were a lot of ways to get grade in Graces. Titles, sidequests, what difficulty you beat the game on, etc.

I like being able to know exactly how much grade I have at the moment with Xillia.

[Zevox]

So, I'm guessing that I've just hit the end of part 2.
Wherein you fight your way through Fezebel Marsh, the Lance of Kresnik fires, and everything goes off in a completely unexpected - and at this point not really understood - direction? Or did I miss a part ending and this is actually the end of part 3?

Just trying to keep up with about how far I am into the game here.

[Ulm11]

So, I'm guessing that I've just hit the end of part 2.
Wherein you fight your way through Fezebel Marsh, the Lance of Kresnik fires, and everything goes off in a completely unexpected - and at this point not really understood - direction? Or did I miss a part ending and this is actually the end of part 3?

Just trying to keep up with about how far I am into the game here.

Not sure if I should spoil this or not, but your right. A handy way to check your progression through the story is to use the tiles, as each time you complete a chapter you gain a corresponding title.

[Sylthia]

So, I'm guessing that I've just hit the end of part 2.
Wherein you fight your way through Fezebel Marsh, the Lance of Kresnik fires, and everything goes off in a completely unexpected - and at this point not really understood - direction? Or did I miss a part ending and this is actually the end of part 3?

Just trying to keep up with about how far I am into the game here.

You're close, although I think Chapter 2 ends when you defeat Nachtigal. I think the part leading up to the part when the Lance fires is part of Chapter 3.

[Shekinah]

I think we're finally getting close to the end...
Just saw Agria and Presa fall off a cliff.

[CoffeeIncluded]

You'd be right, Shekinah.

Ugh, I have less than 3 hours left in the game and I'm leaving Monday morning for college. And I have to fly home and pack too.

[Sylthia]

You'd be right, Shekinah.

Ugh, I have less than 3 hours left in the game and I'm leaving Monday morning for college. And I have to fly home and pack too.

Good luck with college. What year are you going into? Packing can be deceptive. It always takes longer than you think it should.

[Shekinah]

You'd be right, Shekinah.

Ugh, I have less than 3 hours left in the game and I'm leaving Monday morning for college. And I have to fly home and pack too.

I'm right? That's... underwhelming. I was hoping for more in Xillia as far as character evolution goes and solving some of the plot holes. I'll save that rant for private, though.

Packing is boring, but the results are good. Best of luck at college!

[CoffeeIncluded]

I'm right? That's... underwhelming. I was hoping for more in Xillia as far as character evolution goes and solving some of the plot holes. I'll save that rant for private, though.

Packing is boring, but the results are good. Best of luck at college!

Eh, there's still several hours left in the game.


Good luck with college. What year are you going into? Packing can be deceptive. It always takes longer than you think it should.

Thanks, guys! I'm going into my junior year. And actually, packing isn't that tough. The trick? I never fully unpacked!

[Sylthia]

Thanks, guys! I'm going into my junior year. And actually, packing isn't that tough. The trick? I never fully unpacked!

I still have stuff in cardboard boxes from several years ago.

[Zevox]

Hm, so, did anyone else think that the music during the Zenethra dungeon (early one in part 3, trying not to spoil what it is) was just bad? I mean, normally Tales music is at least perfectly fine, and it can often be fairly good, but this particular one is making me want to mute the TV. :smallfrown:

[Demolator]

So I'm playin' Abyss (around 7:30 into it), and all of a sudden Dist the Runny comes and invades my ship and then sends a robot after me. Any of you guys know how to destroy said robot? I can barely damage the stupid thing. I might be underleveled or something, though, I don't know how bad level 12 is.

[Zevox]

Hm, it's been a couple of years since I played Abyss, but I don't recall that being an especially hard boss fight or one with a trick to it, so you may well be right about being under-leveled. If you can't go back to level up a bit, you might consider turning the difficulty down if it looks like you just can't win.

[Sylthia]

So I'm playin' Abyss (around 7:30 into it), and all of a sudden Dist the Runny comes and invades my ship and then sends a robot after me. Any of you guys know how to destroy said robot? I can barely damage the stupid thing. I might be underleveled or something, though, I don't know how bad level 12 is.

It's been a while since I played as well, but as mentioned above, turning down the difficulty can help. Also, in Abyss more than any other game, making use of Free Run can really help in Boss Fights.

[Zevox]

Huh, wait, the end of the dungeon I mentioned two posts ago was the end of part 3 :smallconfused: ? Didn't see that coming. That was a shorter part than the first two.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yeah, chapter 3 is the shortest.

I only have the final boss left now. I'm so close to the end of the game I can taste it. And then comes the Xillia two wait.

Say, I have a theory about the aspyrxis; do you think it's sound (spoilers for after the Fort Gandala level and up until the end of chapter 1).

When Milla got blown up, from her comment about how she couldn't feel her legs at all, it seemed like she suffered severe nerve damage as well. Furthermore, Leia said that the aspyrixis was so painful that the last person who tried it chose to remain a paraplegic than remain in that pain.

I think the aspyrixis works by basically inserting itself into damaged neurons and either bypassing them or forcing them to work. Of course, since we're talking about nerve fibers, this would be incredibly painful.

[Sylthia]

One thing I've noticed about Xillia is that it's very dark, not dark in tone (although it can be), but it has a lot of poorly lit areas. Maybe it's just my TV, but it's hard to see what's going on, a lot of the time.

[Zevox]

Hm, I wonder if that's another effect of trying to play a game designed for HD on a standard-def TV? Because I can't say I've had that problem myself.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Having played part of the game on non-HD, I'm pretty sure that's partially the case.

Finally finished the game, here are a few thoughts before I go back to other things.

Jude's youth still bugs me, though I doubt there's much else that can be done about it. What did annoy me about the final boss, well, final bosses, is that yet again you got both of them to stand down after beating the crap out of them. I think Van was the last final boss that you actually killed, who didn't stand down. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but after Van and Mithos and Dhaos and Shizel and other Tales final bosses from games I haven't played it's a pretty jarring shift to go to Duke and Lambda and now Gaius and Muzet who can be talked down after the battle.

At least you got hints that Gaius would be able to be talked down. But I do feel Muzet had gone completely psychotic and would have to be put down. And that switch was a bit too fast for my taste. I feel it should have been slower.

I really loved this game though, and all the characters. I can't wait to come back and play this game again, and now I'm eagerly waiting for Xillia 2.

I'm still upset they didn't put in Indignation and Fighting of the Spirit when fighting Celsius and Volt though.

[Sylthia]

Having played part of the game on non-HD, I'm pretty sure that's partially the case.

Finally finished the game, here are a few thoughts before I go back to other things.

Jude's youth still bugs me, though I doubt there's much else that can be done about it. What did annoy me about the final boss, well, final bosses, is that yet again you got both of them to stand down after beating the crap out of them. I think Van was the last final boss that you actually killed, who didn't stand down. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but after Van and Mithos and Dhaos and Shizel and other Tales final bosses from games I haven't played it's a pretty jarring shift to go to Duke and Lambda and now Gaius and Muzet who can be talked down after the battle.

At least you got hints that Gaius would be able to be talked down. But I do feel Muzet had gone completely psychotic and would have to be put down. And that switch was a bit too fast for my taste. I feel it should have been slower.

I really loved this game though, and all the characters. I can't wait to come back and play this game again, and now I'm eagerly waiting for Xillia 2.

I'm still upset they didn't put in Indignation and Fighting of the Spirit when fighting Celsius and Volt though.

Jude's age can also make the implied Jude x Milla romance a bit squicky by Western standards. If he was 17 or so it wouldn't be as much of an issue and wouldn't violate the "half your age plus seven" rule.