Pawn on every team?

[Bongos]

So who might the pawn be on Team Evil then? Monster in the Dark is my guess. Could explain some of his 'abilities'.

[Anarion]

I'm not so certain that statement was literal. Especially since Team Evil slimmed down recently. Still, Redcloak has summoned quite a few beings from the lower planes at this point, and some of them may be reporting on his actions to the IFCC (since Redcloak never explicitly told them not to do so).

[Anteros]

My guess for a pawn on team evil would be Redcloak/the Dark One who have been manipulated into action by the trio. A pawn doesn't have to know that it's a pawn.

[BroomGuys]

The pawn on TE was Xykon. He started out as a Level-1 Commoner, but once he made it to the other end of the board, he got promoted to Epic Sorcerer Lich. :smalltongue:

[Gift Jeraff]

Trigak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html)

[Bird]

Maybe Jirix is a secret mole, chafing at the rule of his green-skinned poobah. (Probably not.)

Could there be an Azurite pawn as well? Of the most important Azurites we know (Hinjo, Lien, O-chul, Kazumi, Daigo), I can't think of any reason to suspect any of them.

Could there be a pawn on the Order of the Scribble? Serini, perhaps? Might this help explain the misinformation about the Snarl?

[Xelbiuj]

"and most of them don't know it!" ~ way back when they were talking about the Linear Guild.

They probably consider anyone with predictable actions a pawn. If everything goes according to plan, whether or not they work directly for or even actively against, they're acting as pawns to IFCC.

[Codyage]

Pawns:
Tarquin/Linear Guild = Sabine
Azurites = Formerly Qarr
Team Evil = Demon Roaches
Order of the Stick = V

Do those work?

[Reddish Mage]

Pawn on every team is something Sabine says very aphoristically,and she also says she "only knows half of what's going on." I'm not sure we can take it as confirmation that Team Evil and the Azurites have someone working for the IFCC. I would also note there are other factions out there that we've only seen hints at, the Eye that viewed the OOTS's message, the Good Gods (who did try to send a message to Roy), perhaps Serini or her heir (if her's wasn't the Eye).

[Bird]

Pawn on every team is something Sabine says very aphoristically,and she also says she "only knows half of what's going on." I'm not sure we can take it as confirmation that Team Evil and the Azurites have someone working for the IFCC. I would also note there are other factions out there that we've only seen hints at, the Eye that viewed the OOTS's message, the Good Gods (who did try to send a message to Roy), perhaps Serini or her heir (if her's wasn't the Eye).
Certainly we can't take it as confirmation.

That eye was confirmed by the Giant as Zz'dtri scrying, by the way. Notice the green dweomer.

[Reddish Mage]

Certainly we can't take it as confirmation.

That eye was confirmed by the Giant as Zz'dtri scrying, by the way. Notice the green dweomer.

Ooh really? That's a bit of a downer, actually. I was expecting that the scryer would be revealed in story, but Zz'dtri hasn't mentioned it.

[Bird]

Ooh really? That's a bit of a downer, actually. I was expecting that the scryer would be revealed in story, but Zz'dtri hasn't mentioned it.
It was only revealed in an indirect way -- Nale had to figure out what was going on the with Order somehow before he set up his EoB ambush.

Of course, Z isn't much for lengthy exposition. :smallwink:

[Copperdragon]

Sabine has no clue what is going on, she simply boasts.

The IFCC does have spies in each team, but to call them actual "Pawns" is far-fetched.

They have the Demon Roaches in Team Evil, who do not influence anything but are perfect spies.
They have Sabine for Nale. But Nale in himself is pretty unimportant.
They have no one to influence Tarquin.
They have Vaarsuivus in the Order but if he ever gets back, his value is greatly diminished (should he do the smart thing and be open about what is going on with him). And apparently there is nothing they can make Vaarsuvius actually "do", they can keep him from playing a role - quite powerful but far from him being a "pawn".
The have Qarr in the LG, but he is more an observer than someone how is actually doing something.

All in all: that is pretty slim for calling it "pawns in all teams".

[Bird]

They have the Demon Roaches in Team Evil, who do not influence anything but are perfect spies.
Has this actually been shown in the comic? It makes sense that they would be spies, I just can't recall the strip indicating they are. Their genesis in SoD didn't seem to have anything to do with the IFCC.

They have Sabine for Nale. But Nale in himself is pretty unimportant.
This is hard to say, since we don't know the extent of the IFCC's scheme. "Unimportant" people (like Roy, Elan, and Miko) can do things with huge consequences.

They have no one to influence Tarquin.
...perhaps.

They have Vaarsuivus in the Order but if he ever gets back, his value is greatly diminished (should he do the smart thing and be open about what is going on with him). And apparently there is nothing they can make Vaarsuvius actually "do", they can keep him from playing a role - quite powerful but far from him being a "pawn".
How this dynamic plays out is going to be fascinating. I can only assume that the fiends have excellent ideas for maximizing V's utility in mind.

The have Qarr in the LG, but he is more an observer than someone how is actually doing something.
He's observing at the moment, but I wouldn't underestimate him. He's a mid/high level sorcerer acting as their wizard's familiar. That's plenty of potential for mischief.

[Copperdragon]

Has this actually been shown in the comic? It makes sense that they would be spies, I just can't recall the strip indicating they are. Their genesis in SoD didn't seem to have anything to do with the IFCC.

No. And I bet they started out as joke. But if the IFCC does *not* question them once in a while they are more stupid than they are shown. Or to put it differently: I cannot imagine any setup in which the IFCC would not make contact (in whatever way) with the roaches.


This is hard to say, since we don't know the extent of the IFCC's scheme. "Unimportant" people (like Roy, Elan, and Miko) can do things with huge consequences.

He's there to "shake things up", they said that and that is the only thing you can rely on him to do. Yes, he is unimportant, if they needed some recurring villain to just rattle the box it would be an easy plot to organise one.


...perhaps.

We do not know anything about that and Tarquin just entered the race very recently - and within a faction that already existed.


He's observing at the moment, but I wouldn't underestimate him. He's a mid/high level sorcerer acting as their wizard's familiar. That's plenty of potential for mischief.

Sure. And he'll play some role before the end, I am very sure of that. But given the IFCC already has a pawn in the LG Qarrs value is limited (of course he is there to replace Sabine should she fail - the IFCC knows she's too chaotic for some things).

[David Argall]

Pawns do not have to be willing.
Pawns do not even need to know they are pawns.
The source here has confessed to very incomplete knowledge.
The statement was made in light conversation, where precise accuracy was not expected.

In other words, this is all meaningless noise. There may or may not be pawns on any given team, something we knew before, or should have known, before Sabine said a word.

[Crusher]

Qaar wasn't their only pawn on Team Azure and, up until recently, really was only important as the (fairly out of the loop) point of contact with Kubota.

Kubota was their useful pawn. While he probably had no idea what the IFCC were truly up to he knew more or less who he was dealing with. He died ingloriously, but he was a player up until that point.

[pendell]

With regard to Team Evil, another "pawn" may be Redcloak's summons. He relies heavily on them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html), especially on "need-to-know" jobs when he can't even take along goblins.

Well, those summons aren't memory wiped when they return to the lower planes. Naturally the IFC can learn everything they need to from them.

... Can a summoned monster either break free of it's summoners control, or be freed from it? If this is so, possibly the IFC may take control of Redcloak's summoned devils. Thus Redcloak may find himself surrounded by what he thought was Team Evil but actually turns out to be Team IFC. Considering what happened to Tsukiko, it would be poetic.

Finally, while we have no indication in-comic this happens, it's possible Redcloak uses extraplanar sources as an intelligence network in addition to direct divine guidance from the Dark One. If the IFC has access to this network, they could use it to feed him disinformation and manipulate his actions.

That's a big assumption because, again, we have no evidence in-comic that Redcloak does this. But it's plausible.

ETA: Actually, the next few panels with Tsukiko and Redcloak show exactly why Redcloak is stuck with Xykon. Because any wizard of a high enough level to do the arcane half of the Ritual would also be able to recognize it as a
teleportation spell, and thus figure out he was being lied to.

Thus the person to work the arcane ritual must either be
A) a goblin as devoted to the dark one as redcloak is -- but if so, why are they a wizard instead of a cleric?
B) An epic-level sorcerer who's far enough on the Evil side of the spectrum
to work with Redcloak, and stupid enough not to question why.

There can't be many people like that in OOTS world. Maybe the sorcerer soul-spliced with Vaarsuvius would have done it when he was alive, but not many others.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Draz74]

Qaar wasn't their only pawn on Team Azure and, up until recently, really was only important as the (fairly out of the loop) point of contact with Kubota.

Kubota was their useful pawn. While he probably had no idea what the IFCC were truly up to he knew more or less who he was dealing with. He died ingloriously, but he was a player up until that point.

I ... don't think Kubota had any connection to the IFCC. Qarr was as surprised as V when the IFCC answered his petition for a Faustian pact. And then at the end of tempting V, they hired him ... i.e., for the first time.

Before the IFCC bought their way into V's conundrum, Qarr was just on a standard evil-imp gig.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Given that the IFCC's plot is centered around the Gates, and the good guys knowledge of the Gates and Snarl is likely incomplete or wrong, Lord Shojo himself could have been an unwitting IFCC pawn, manipulating the OOTS and the Sapphire Guard in entirely the wrong direction. So much for his Improved Paranoia...

[Sir_Leorik]

Can we set some groundrules before we try to guess who the alleged pawns of the IFCC are?


Only a member of a team can be one of the pawns on that team.
Unless we see one pawn manipulating him/her, the leader(s) of a team are out of the running. That includes Roy, Xykon, Redcloak, Tarquin and Hinjo, but not Nale or Kubota.
The IFCC Directors have outright stated that some of the pawns are not aware they're pawns in the Directors' scheme. But the Directors need a way to manipulate a pawn, either directly (like with V) or indirectly (such as Sabine influencing Nale).
The gods, including Tiamat, Loki, the Dark One and Giggles the Clown, are too powerful for the IFCC to consider pawns. They may have dealings with Evil gods, but it one where the Evil gods are the ones with the power to make the IFCC Directors sign a non-compete clause and can call them on the phone to complain. The Directors are the junior partners in any dealings with a god. (Banjo the Clown would never stoop to dealing with such blackguards as the IFCC! Don't even try to make such an accusation!)


The IFCC has a single pawn on the OotS: V. (Two if we count Blackwing.)

Most of the original Linear Guild members, except for Hilgya, are/were pawns as well, with only Sabine realizing just how compromised the Linear Guild are. Hilgya was actually planning to betray Nale by stealing the Talisman of Dorukan for Loki. (Perhaps Loki is a bit concerned about IFCC meddling?) Of the three new members Nale recruited in Cliffport, only Pompei was under IFCC influence, due to his infatuation with Sabine. Right now the IFCC has the following pawns on the Linear Guild: Sabine and Qarr (know about IFCC manipulation), plus Nale and Zz'dtri (who don't).

Originally Sabine was infiltrating Team Tarquin, possibly with others. At that time she may have manipulated Nale, Thog, Yikyik and Zz'dtri into staging the coup against the "Empress of Blood", hoping to topple Tarquin and take over. Regardless, they were kicked off team Tarquin when they fled the Western Continent. There may be others working for the IFCC in the Empire of Blood, but their identities are unconfirmed. Tarquin is disqualified, and I think Malack is an unlikely pawn.

Team Evil has a very likely candidate, but first let's rule out the ones who can't be the pawn(s): Xykon and Redcloak. They have been a team since Redcloak and Right-Eye met Xykon in a dismal swamp, slaughtering members of the Sapphire Guard for his own amusement. Like I said, the leader(s) of a team are disqualified by the rules I laid out, but if you want a better explanation here it is: Xykon and Redcloak were Gate hunting decades before Sabine passed on the news of their existence to the IFCC.

Next is Tsukiko, who might be a good candidate were it not for three factors: she was not expecting to be released from prison (which gave her the opportunity to defect to Team Evil in the first place); she was fiercely devoted to Xykon; and she's kinda dead. If she was the IFCC's pawn they need a new one, since Tsukiko's Wight-kibble now.

The MitD has too many unknown variables to consider a pawn or not. We don't know what he is or how he can do what he's done (or how he can eat all that stew). He also has shown interest in both Good and Evil, but he's only shown interest in the latter because Xykon and Redcloak feed him and buy him toys to shut him up. All it took was a single pamphlet from a Celestial Garden Weasel to interest the MitD in becoming Good, and that was long before O-Chul's nightly games of Go. Plus, how exactly are the IFCC supposed to manipulate the MitD? They can't give him food or toys if they can't go to the Material Plane. The only way they could do so is by using the next suspect: The Demon Roaches.

The Demon Roaches are the perfect candidates. They aren't officially members of Team Evil, but they're always there making snarky jokes and breaking the Fourth Wall, so who would notice if they whisper something in someone's ear? Like trying to warn the MitD not to listen to O-Chul's oreaching about free will and making his own decisions? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html) They are the perfect moles in Team Evil, but so far they haven't had much success manipulating anyone, not even the MitD. If the MitD were listening to their advice I might be willing to consider him a pawn of the IFCC, but he's begun to think for himself and he's actually managed to Bluff Xykon into not fighting the OotS at the ruins of Girard's Gate.

EDIT: Before their team disintegrated (pardon the pun), Team Kubota's leadership were all being watched by the IFCC. Qarr was an unwilling pawn, since he didn't know that Director Lee had requested that Qarr be transferred from his old assignment, pending the successful tempting of V. The IFCC never actually made a move to manipulate Team Kubota, but they were watching them carefully.

[Sir_Leorik]

Qaar wasn't their only pawn on Team Azure and, up until recently, really was only important as the (fairly out of the loop) point of contact with Kubota.

Kubota was their useful pawn. While he probably had no idea what the IFCC were truly up to he knew more or less who he was dealing with. He died ingloriously, but he was a player up until that point.

There was no "Team Azure". There was the Sapphire Guard and Team Kubota (and maybe a few other teams, each representing a different noble house.


I ... don't think Kubota had any connection to the IFCC. Qarr was as surprised as V when the IFCC answered his petition for a Faustian pact. And then at the end of tempting V, they hired him ... i.e., for the first time.

Before the IFCC bought their way into V's conundrum, Qarr was just on a standard evil-imp gig.

He was, but the IFCC were observing him. Had they thought it prudent they may have summoned him and given him new orders, but it turned out not to be necessary. Kubota was more of a potential pawn, one they might have gained, but they probably didn't bother since he had almost no real inherent value, unlike V or Nale.

The IFCC had already cleared Qarr's transfer before they went to the island to answer V's summons.

[Sir_Leorik]

With regard to Team Evil, another "pawn" may be Redcloak's summons. He relies heavily on them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html), especially on "need-to-know" jobs when he can't even take along goblins.

Well, those summons aren't memory wiped when they return to the lower planes. Naturally the IFC can learn everything they need to from them.

... Can a summoned monster either break free of it's summoners control, or be freed from it? If this is so, possibly the IFC may take control of Redcloak's summoned devils. Thus Redcloak may find himself surrounded by what he thought was Team Evil but actually turns out to be Team IFC.

The IFCC can scry on Team Evil no matter what; relying on the summoned Devils is at best bonus intel. They are rarely around long enough to do anything sneaky, unless Redcloak uses a spell with the calling rather than summoning keyword. And even then the Devils can't break the terms of their contract with Redcloak, or they'll be banished, with no payment or bonus iPad.


Finally, while we have no indication in-comic this happens, it's possible Redcloak uses extraplanar sources as an intelligence network in addition to direct divine guidance from the Dark One. If the IFC has access to this network, they could use it to feed him disinformation and manipulate his actions.

That's a big assumption because, again, we have no evidence in-comic that Redcloak does this. But it's plausible.

They have a more subtle way to manipulate Redcloak, assuming my hunch that the Demon Roaches are their pawns, is correct. The goal of having pawns is to manipulate a side into taking an action the IFCC want or to making events occur in their favor. Feeding Redcloak false intel is not the best method of doing this, compared to setting Xykon and Redcloak against each other.


ETA: Actually, the next few panels with Tsukiko and Redcloak show exactly why Redcloak is stuck with Xykon. Because any wizard of a high enough level to do the arcane half of the Ritual would also be able to recognize it as a
teleportation spell, and thus figure out he was being lied to.

Thus the person to work the arcane ritual must either be
A) a goblin as devoted to the dark one as redcloak is -- but if so, why are they a wizard instead of a cleric?
B) An epic-level sorcerer who's far enough on the Evil side of the spectrum
to work with Redcloak, and stupid enough not to question why.

There can't be many people like that in OOTS world. Maybe the sorcerer soul-spliced with Vaarsuvius would have done it when he was alive, but not many others.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

In SoD the highest level Goblin Wizard Redcloak had found for "The Plan" before Right-Eye suggested recruiting Xykon, could barely speak common; I doubt that moron could even cast cantrips. :smallbiggrin:

[luc258]

I wouldn't rule out Xykon in addition to the roaches to quickly.
1. It is possible that there is more than one working for the IFCC
2. The talk Xykon had with Vaarsuvius sounds like he could have made some kind of pact as well. He seemed to have thought a lot more about life after death than usual
3. Story wise, the roaches would make the obvious distraction until the IFCC calls in Xykon's part of a contract at a crucial time.

[KillianHawkeye]

I wouldn't rule out Xykon in addition to the roaches to quickly.
1. It is possible that there is more than one working for the IFCC
2. The talk Xykon had with Vaarsuvius sounds like he could have made some kind of pact as well. He seemed to have thought a lot more about life after death than usual
3. Story wise, the roaches would make the obvious distraction until the IFCC calls in Xykon's part of a contract at a crucial time.

I dunno. I really doubt this.

Xykon doesn't seem like the sort of guy to take orders from ANYBODY. Or agree to any sort of contract in general.

[Sir_Leorik]

2. The talk Xykon had with Vaarsuvius sounds like he could have made some kind of pact as well. He seemed to have thought a lot more about life after death than usual

There is no evidence for Xykon making a pact with anyone. He's a Sorcerer, not a Warlock. Redcloak helped Xykon become a Lich, not the IFCC. All of Xykon's ruminations on death are a result of his thirty plus years as an undead abomination. Besides, he can no longer taste food, smell coffee, he never actually sleeps, but still needs to sit still for eight hours to regain his spell slots, has not had a cup of coffee (good or bad) in thirty years, and there's only so much TeeVo he can watch before he gets disgusted and orders the death of some slaves to cheer himself up. That's who Xykon is, and he didn't need three Archfiends to get that way.

[Reddish Mage]

You know after reading Sabine say that "I've seen them take down more righteous mortals than you" and "you've got pawns on every team" together makes me wonder if they do have a "righteous mortal" pawn. That would imply one of the paladins...

What if they were controlling Miko the entire time!?

[SowZ]

I second demon roaches.

[Nilehus]

You know after reading Sabine say that "I've seen them take down more righteous mortals than you" and "you've got pawns on every team" together makes me wonder if they do have a "righteous mortal" pawn. That would imply one of the paladins...

What if they were controlling Miko the entire time!?

Interesting thought. Miko would definitely have been the easiest to provoke into acting for Evil (see killing the Chaotic Good ruler of a bastion of civilization on the eve of war), but her mental stability... left a lot to be desired. Her thought process looped out far enough that she honestly believed that the best way to help Azure City was to murder its old, helpless ruler in cold blood over half an eavesdropped conversation. Pawns need to be a little more controllable. Not completely controllable, necessarily. To have a good pawn, you would need the ability to, at least, guide them down the path you want.

See Nale. He may not listen to every single word Sabine says, but she has a lot of influence over him. Now whether Sabine is a good pawn or not... :smalltongue:

Of course, it's obvious who the real collaborator is. O-Chul. It's the perfect tweest.

[Secris]

I just assumed she meant pawns on each spectrum of the evil scale, seeing as she does it immediately after talking about how well the fiends work together despite their differences. This is a more interesting way to think of it though. However, it's hard to be sure what constitutes a team, as this thread has shown. Are the Azurites their own team? Are the elfs? What about Team Evil vs Gobbotopia? Not to mention whether or not Sabine knows what she's talking about and whether or not she's bluffing.

[Kish]

I am trying to figure out whether attempting to derive the absolute literal truth from casual statements made by Sabine is better or worse than doing the same with casual statements made by the demon roaches.

[Reddish Mage]

Interesting thought. Miko would definitely have been the easiest to provoke into acting for Evil (see killing the Chaotic Good ruler of a bastion of civilization on the eve of war), but her mental stability... left a lot to be desired. Her thought process looped out far enough that she honestly believed that the best way to help Azure City was to murder its old, helpless ruler in cold blood over half an eavesdropped conversation. Pawns need to be a little more controllable. Not completely controllable, necessarily. To have a good pawn, you would need the ability to, at least, guide them down the path you want.

Lol. Miko, with her black and white outlook, would obviously never work for anything that identified as evil and couldn't be seduced.

However, if we imagine the fiends could manipulate people that are unaware of working for the IFCC, they could have been building this scheme for a long time. Before the start of the strip, and have been using many of the main players.

[MReav]

Perhaps the Fiends were manipulating Shojo (indirectly, of course). Shojo had Redcloak's Tribe massacred as part of the general purges (Shojo was ruler at the time), used a large number of subterfuges that made him the sole link that could keep Azure City together (then the fiends had the attempted assassinations occur to force him into a less hands-on position), and was willing to risk contacting Girard's legacy despite the fact that Girard was the most paranoid and would probably be the one to turn any attempts by Azure City agents to contact him into an excuse to start the fight between them again.

He was convinced it was for the greater good, but hey, good intentions and all that.

[rgrekejin]

Perhaps the Dark One doesn't actually exist, or rather, exists only as a front put forth by the IFCC. The would make Redcloak the da facto pawn on Team Evil.

Admittedly, I don't buy this theory myself. I think it's much more likely that Sabine wasn't trying to make a terribly precise statement.

[Sir_Leorik]

Of course, it's obvious who the real collaborator is. O-Chul. It's the perfect tweest.

Gah! The cyan font is burning my eyes! :smallannoyed:

[Sir_Leorik]

I am trying to figure out whether attempting to derive the absolute literal truth from casual statements made by Sabine is better or worse than doing the same with casual statements made by the demon roaches.

Given that most of Sabine's comments aren't blatant fourth-wall breaking jokes, I'd trust her over the Demon Roaches any day. The Roaches are a bunch of liars. In fact, I wouldn't trust them if they told me they were lying to me!

Sabine, on the other hand, mixes lies with the truth, because that's an easier way for her to seduce someone. She can't be completely honest, but she needs to use the truth to get better results. Plus she has no motive to lie to V, and she has admitted she likes the Elf, since V gave Sabine pretty good advice back in Azure City. When she has a motive to lie, Sabine is one of the most deceptive characters in the strip, but right now she's "off the clock" until she's no longer banished.

[Kish]

More to the point, Sabine (like everyone, including the Oracle) talks like a person, not like a prophecy machine.

[Sir_Leorik]

Perhaps the Dark One doesn't actually exist, or rather, exists only as a front put forth by the IFCC. The would make Redcloak the da facto pawn on Team Evil.

Admittedly, I don't buy this theory myself. I think it's much more likely that Sabine wasn't trying to make a terribly precise statement.

Then where do Redcloak and Jirix's spells come from? The IFCC are mere Archfiends, they lack the power to grant Clerical spells, and even if they could, they have a non-compete clause with the Evil Gods.

There are Demon Princes (such as Demogorgon, Orcus, Juiblex and Kostcbhie) that can grant limited cleric spells to some of their followers, but they are the exception, not the rule. Even Asmodeus, the most powerful of Devils, couldn't grant Divine magic until Fourth Edition, when he usurped the power of "He Who Was" during the Dawn War.

[F.Harr]

Ooh really? That's a bit of a downer, actually. I was expecting that the scryer would be revealed in story, but Zz'dtri hasn't mentioned it.

Yeah, I know, right?

[137beth]

I am trying to figure out whether attempting to derive the absolute literal truth from casual statements made by Sabine is better or worse than doing the same with casual statements made by the demon roaches.

The real question is whether it is better or worse than doing the same with casual statements made by the author...

[Nilehus]

Lol. Miko, with her black and white outlook, would obviously never work for anything that identified as evil and couldn't be seduced.

Knowingly, yes, Miko would never have worked for the fiends. But when all it takes to push her over the edge to committing evil acts is a few overheard sentences, she becomes very easy to manipulate. Not reliably, and not in any way they can control, but Miko caused more destructive, unnecessary conflict than any other Paladin, hands down.

[pendell]

I don't think it's the demon roaches. "Pawn" implies an unwitting tool who influences the decision making of Team Evil. I'd believe the MITD over the Roaches because Xykon and Redcloak have, one time, actually listened to him.

The roaches have had almost no impact on the comic whatsoever save as a joke. No one listens to them. Their comments are for the most part fourth wall breaking jokes for our benefit.

Who, then, on Team Evil is in any position either to influence their decision making or thwart them by being suddenly removed at a key moment?

- Xykon himself. The IFCC can take him off the board in one move by showing him exactly how Redcloak is lying to him. Also, he's easily manipulated. Redcloak is controlling him. Can other people manipulate him as well?

- Redcloak. Does everything possible in accordance with The Plan. This
is a lever on him. He will do anything and everything , however base or low,
to see the plan through to completion.

-- The MITD. He is capable of influencing Team Evil and is probably capable
of, if not destroying them outright, at least of putting up a tough fight.


-----
Wait wait wait. *I* know who the secret pawn on Team Evil is. IT'S THE TEEVO!

Incarnate evil which can be manipulated to send Xykon any images they want -- controlling his actions.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[rgrekejin]

Then where do Redcloak and Jirix's spells come from? The IFCC are mere Archfiends, they lack the power to grant Clerical spells, and even if they could, they have a non-compete clause with the Evil Gods.

There are Demon Princes (such as Demogorgon, Orcus, Juiblex and Kostcbhie) that can grant limited cleric spells to some of their followers, but they are the exception, not the rule. Even Asmodeus, the most powerful of Devils, couldn't grant Divine magic until Fourth Edition, when he usurped the power of "He Who Was" during the Dawn War.

Well, that wasn't really a serious theory anyway, but didn't Asmodeus have an arrangement in place with a couple of evil Gods to provide cleric powers to select worshipers back in 2nd ed?

[luc258]

Wait wait wait. *I* know who the secret pawn on Team Evil is. IT'S THE TEEVO!

Incarnate evil which can be manipulated to send Xykon any images they want -- controlling his actions.

I'll go with the TEEVO idea from now on, I don't care if it is wrong or right, it is just awesome.

[137beth]

Knowingly, yes, Miko would never have worked for the fiends. But when all it takes to push her over the edge to committing evil acts is a few overheard sentences, she becomes very easy to manipulate. Not reliably, and not in any way they can control, but Miko caused more destructive, unnecessary conflict than any other Paladin, hands down.

And, actually, Miko single-handedly averted what the IFCC described as the worst thing that could happen: one side winning. She stopped Xykon and Redcloak from being destroyed. Whether she was manipulated or not, she helped the IFCC a lot.

[Hardcore]

Pawns do not have to be willing.
Pawns do not even need to know they are pawns.
The source here has confessed to very incomplete knowledge.
The statement was made in light conversation, where precise accuracy was not expected.

In other words, this is all meaningless noise. There may or may not be pawns on any given team, something we knew before, or should have known, before Sabine said a word.

Listen to the voice of reason, people! Listen to the voice of reason... Eh, never mind.