Evil DM'ing and Will saves

[GutterFace]

So i have a one shot, campaign coming up. It stars an *surprise* evil caster. now he is going to force a lot of Will saves against the PC's.

They are all level 4. we have:

Wood Elf Ranger
Kalashtar Ardent
Human Fighter
Human Dragon Shaman

I am not going to force Sleep/Paralysis because of the Elf and the Shaman.

as far as the char sheets go i know no one has Iron Will. and only the Ardent has a solid Will save.

what would you guys suggest as a Dc for the Will saves that are neither cripplingly hard for this lot to pass, nor too easy that every roll would pass.

i know from looking everything over that the lowest Will+mod is 0, and highest is 7.

my belief is that (by adjusting the ECL of the NPC) a Will of 15-16 is where id like to be. but what are you thoughts???

[Krazzman]

THe DC for it is 10 + Spell Level + Casting Stat + Feats.

Sleep would have little effect too since he has to chose ONE of them (as they have 4 HD).

[TheDarkSaint]

First, prime the pump.

Metamagic Coersive on Sonic Snap. It's an auto point of damage and they will be getting a -2 to their will save against the next charm spell.

The 2nd level spell Phantasmal Assailants is a good one. If they fail, they are looking at -8 Dex and -8 Wis (-4 if they pass each with a fort save) This could be absolutely crippling.

Glitterdust is a good old stand-by

Inhibit is a laugh, making people delay actions for a full round.

If the wizard can get the suprise round, Shock and Awe is a great spell to ensure that he/she and the minions get to go first. -10 to initiative sucks. (ps, doesn't even have a save) :)

The various "Whelm" spells are good for knocking people unconscious to later tie to a death trap of "inescapable doom"!

Baleful transposition can be a hoot, swapping a flunky for a support character, leaving them at your mercy.

Even the 0 level cantrip Daze can be used to great effect on them, since they are all 4th level. No action for you, PC

[GutterFace]

Ill go a bit further in my explanation.

I know the Save Dc already is 10+5+3. but an 18 Will save would be crippling. 50% of the party would have a 15% chance of passing each save. 25% of the party would have a 20% chance to pass. and 25% of the party would have a 25% chance to pass an 18 will save.

i already have my spells picked out for the party, so thats not an issue.

more over i need some collective advice to looooooower the Dc save.
i was only looking for what would be considered a relatively moderate Will save Dc for a level 4 party

[Vaz]

Sanctum Spell reduces it by 1 when you're not in the Sanctum. When you get to the Sanctum later on, it is a free +2 boost.

[GutterFace]

Sanctum Spell reduces it by 1 when you're not in the Sanctum. When you get to the Sanctum later on, it is a free +2 boost.

very cool. thanks! every bit helps

[TheDarkSaint]

As a fellow DM...this is something that I don't understand.

You have all the power in your world. You know you need to balance things and you need that DC lower.

so....lower it. They won't know and if they do manage to figure it out, they probably won't care. Just put the DC where you want it to give them a good challenge but a fighting chance and you're good to go. If you really need to , make up a new Flaw that would affect DC levels and only the let the NPC have it.

It's your world. Fudge it :)

[GutterFace]

As a fellow DM...this is something that I don't understand.

You have all the power in your world. You know you need to balance things and you need that DC lower.

so....lower it. They won't know and if they do manage to figure it out, they probably won't care. Just put the DC where you want it to give them a good challenge but a fighting chance and you're good to go. If you really need to , make up a new Flaw that would affect DC levels and only the let the NPC have it.

It's your world. Fudge it :)

hahaha i know i can lower it to whatever i want. but that was the point. i am looking for what other people would consider an acceptable Dc for Will saves for a level 4 party where the average Will save mod is +1 lol

[Sith_Happens]

I know the Save Dc already is 10+5+3. but an 18 Will save would be crippling. 50% of the party would have a 15% chance of passing each save. 25% of the party would have a 20% chance to pass. and 25% of the party would have a 25% chance to pass an 18 will save.

Your BBEG is either
a) Casting 5th level spells with a 16 INT. Don't do that. A 9th level wizard is going to wipe a 4th level party, their save DCs have very little to do with it.
b) Casting 3rd level spells with a 20 INT. Give him a lower INT score. 15-17 is fine for an NPC, and will give him exactly the DC range you want.