[3.5] Dread Necro / Fiend-Blooded... how to?

[Prof.Smythe]

Hello all.

I've been digging through a lot of forums, searched google and who knows how many other sites trying to find some good suggestions for this but I'm coming up kind of empty (apart from the various DN handbooks saying that its a decent enough option to go into).

So how do I build a Dread Necro that's going into the Fiend Blooded prestige?

Requirements:

Any humanoid race (cannot already be a half-fiend)
Non-good alignment
Concentration 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks
Feats: Blood Calls to Blood, Eschew Materials
Must be able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells without preparation


The game is going to be set in Eberron and I'm likely to be playing a Human for added skill points/bonus feat (I hate Eschew Materials but I need to take it so Human's as good a choice without wasting a feat from other races). The only thing I know that's banned is the UA flaws shenanigans since our DM is fairly new, also meaning the standard 'gentleman's agreement' is in place to not be too over the top.

So yeah I'm asking for help but nothing too broken if you think you can manage it :smallcool:

[Urpriest]

You've got Concentration and Knowledge(Arcana) as class skills. All you need is Knowledge(The Planes) as a class skil. You can get that from the Education feat (Eberron Campaign Setting, may also be in a Faerun book somewhere), or the Apprentice feat (DMG II, for the right sort of apprenticeship). You could also get it from an appropriate prestige class, though that would delay entry by a level and may take a feat on its own.

[Prof.Smythe]

Education is probably the easiest way, though I can probably talk my DM into the apprenticeship feat instead.

Which now leaves me with 2 questions:


How does the spellcasting apprenticeship work with a spontaneous arcane 'caster that has a set spell list? As written if I was a Wizard or Sorcerer style I'd get extra spells (in addition to the UMD & knowledge bonuses) but no other benefit otherwise.

As written do I need to take another feat to generate that Fiendish heritage for Blood calls to Blood, or could I just go with the 'it happened a long time ago in the family, my parents weren't actually fiend-fetishists':smallbiggrin:

[Urpriest]

Education is probably the easiest way, though I can probably talk my DM into the apprenticeship feat instead.

Which now leaves me with 2 questions:


How does the spellcasting apprenticeship work with a spontaneous arcane 'caster that has a set spell list? As written if I was a Wizard or Sorcerer style I'd get extra spells (in addition to the UMD & knowledge bonuses) but no other benefit otherwise.

As written do I need to take another feat to generate that Fiendish heritage for Blood calls to Blood, or could I just go with the 'it happened a long time ago in the family, my parents weren't actually fiend-fetishists':smallbiggrin:


You wouldn't gain any benefit from the spellcasting part of that apprenticeship, unfortunately. It would add spells known, but they'd still have to be from your list so you'd already "know" them.

The fiendish heritage for Blood Calls to Blood isn't a specific rules-thing, it's just a family history thing, so working it into your backstory is fine.

[Deophaun]

There are a few tricks you can do with Fiendish Sorcerery. Since there are no spell lists associated with it you can pick from any list, which, thanks to some PrCs, can grant you access to higher level spells much sooner (such as gaining Mass Invisibility at level 6 through Telflammar Shadowlord). But, the pickings are a bit slim in that regard.

[Darth Stabber]

Once you've met the prerequisites just go about doing what you were doing. You've gone from a transformative class to a transformative PRC. You can make 1-2 damage spells better per day, so that's a plus. You also get to grab illusions, enchantments, and fire descriptor spells. Orb of fire is a decent choice, good damage, no save against the damage, no sr, and a cool rider effect (dazing). Beyond that you, might want to look into shadow evocations and shadow conjurations, those will pay out with a TON of added versatility.

The big caveat in know:planes

There are a few good paths of entry:
dread necro 10
dread necromancer 8/anything with know:planes 1
Anything with know:planes and able learner1/dread necro4

Dread necro 8 gives you the big undead cap increase and a familiar (which is probably already a fiend). What you add to it is a matter of taste. Cloistered cleric with some devotion feats is a nice choice, especially with all those extra turn attempts.

[Urpriest]

Once you've met the prerequisites just go about doing what you were doing. You've gone from a transformative class to a transformative PRC. You can make 1-2 damage spells better per day, so that's a plus. You also get to grab illusions, enchantments, and fire descriptor spells. Orb of fire is a decent choice, good damage, no save against the damage, no sr, and a cool rider effect (dazing). Beyond that you, might want to look into shadow evocations and shadow conjurations, those will pay out with a TON of added versatility.

The big caveat in know:planes

There are a few good paths of entry:
dread necro 10
dread necromancer 8/anything with know:planes 1
Anything with know:planes and able learner1/dread necro4

Dread necro 8 gives you the big undead cap increase and a familiar (which is probably already a fiend). What you add to it is a matter of taste. Cloistered cleric with some devotion feats is a nice choice, especially with all those extra turn attempts.

Dread Necro 10 can't qualify (without feats that give it as a class skill), you need 8 ranks. And Able Learner would really only be needed by that last build if it had Int under 12 (admittedly possible, but feels like a weak use for the feat).

[Darth Stabber]

Dread Necro 10 can't qualify (without feats that give it as a class skill), you need 8 ranks. And Able Learner would really only be needed by that last build if it had Int under 12 (admittedly possible, but feels like a weak use for the feat).

You're right, it would have to be level 15, at which point why bother?

[Deophaun]

And thinking about it, I'd probably recommend Knowledge Devotion over Able Learner or Apprentice. He'd get some use out of the attack and damage bonuses.

[Prof.Smythe]

Hmm so its looking a bit like these could be possible options then:

Option 1-
1st: Tomb Tainted Soul
Human: Eschew Materials
3rd: Knowledge devotion (Planes)
6th: Blood calls to blood
9th + onwards: whatever fun things I want that aren't getting me into the PrC anymore.

Option 2
1st: Apprentice (Know: Planes and UMD as class skills)
Human: Eschew materials
3rd: Blood calls to blood
6th + onwards: again anything I want for build/custom shenanigans.
Only downside in option 2 is not having Tomb Tainted Soul right from the beginning, though taking Eschew @ 6th level opens this option up.

With the class split Dread Necro 8/Fiend-blooded 9 or 10/'other' 3 or 2 (depending on FB levels).

Thanks guys, you've helped me nail down roughly how I'm playing this guy mechanically.