Bow Damage and the Champion

[ZamielVanWeber]

So I am trying to make a champion based on the bow and realized I am having issues doing damage. What are some general good ways of upping bow damage without uaing PrCs.

[Fenryr]

The problem with archery is that you need to focus on doing volley. What about Base classes? Are they allowed? Scout or Rogue may help with precision damage.

Force (weapon property +2) from MIC is a must. Splitting (weapon property +3) from Champions of Ruin will help. A lot.

This may help. (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=642.0)

[ZamielVanWeber]

I am going for Champion 20, so I have feats and items to work with. I was also planning on using a wood elf for my racs.

[ksbsnowowl]

What is "Champion 20"...?

[Thespianus]

What is "Champion 20"...?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623431#post9623431

I assume

[Krazzman]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623431#post9623431

I assume

Try to get some of Pathfinders Archery feats allowed.
They give you bonus damage (á la Power Attack), counting all attacks of the round to count towards DR ONCE and some other goodies.

[ZamielVanWeber]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623431#post9623431

I assume

Yup. My group has always wanted to see one in action and I nees to broaden my base a bit anyways.

[Nightraiderx]

rapid shot and multishot do stack. Also pathfinder did have some nice stuff.
Also putting collision on your bow for an extra 5 damage per arrow is good.

[ksbsnowowl]

rapid shot and multishot do stack.

I'm assuming you mean Manyshot, not multishot.

If you do mean Manyshot, no, it does not stack with Rapid Shot. Many Shot is a Standard Action, meaning you can't ever* do it more than once per round. A standard action is NOT the same thing as an attack action. A full attack (which is required to activate Rapid Shot) gives you multiple attack actions, none of which can be used to perform a standard action.

*excepting special situations such as being shapechanged into a choker or something.

[kulosle]

As with most questions, the answer is Bard. Inspire courage or Dragon fire adept ads lots of damage to people who get a lot of attacks. Get a cohort or ask a part member to play a bard. It's questionable whether or not the Vest of Legends just lets anyone have inspire courage. It really shouldn't but I've seen GM's let it slide. But yeah essentially you need to get a source of damage that stacks with all your attacks.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I am stumped what to take beyond Many/Rapid/Improved rapid to improve my damage.

[ksbsnowowl]

I am stumped what to take beyond Many/Rapid/Improved rapid to improve my damage.

Get a magical Holy bow?

Dread Commando (HoB) isn't terrible. Sudden Strike works no differently than Sneak Attack for a ranged attacker.

Dip three levels of Peerless Archer for Power Shot.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Again, the point here is to stay in Champion start to finish. Otherwise there would be dips left and right for some of these goodies. I am just kinda stumped on what my feat selection should be for the Avatar.

[Nightraiderx]

I misread that, however the manyshot line is good with psionic feats like psionic shot and such.

[kulosle]

oh i forgot about knowledge devotion. It's a good way to get some extra damage. If your an elf there is a feat that makes all knowledge skills class skills and gives you a +1 to them. And collector of stories skill trick gives you a +5.

EDIT: The feat is called Education from and if you use the ECS version you don't even have to be an elf. But i was wrong one one part it only give you a +1 to 2 of them.

[Segev]

Dragonfire Adept sadly contributes little else to a build like this, otherwise, their Draconic Knowledge invocation (allowing untrained use of Knowledge skills and a +6 bonus to all such checks, trained or not) would synergize very well with Knowledge Devotion.

[ZamielVanWeber]

oh i forgot about knowledge devotion. It's a good way to get some extra damage. If your an elf there is a feat that makes all knowledge skills class skills and gives you a +1 to them. And collector of stories skill trick gives you a +5.

EDIT: The feat is called Education from and if you use the ECS version you don't even have to be an elf. But i was wrong one one part it only give you a +1 to 2 of them.

Works great for the base form too, so this is a good start. The int penalty from wood elf would make this kinda sad though. Grey elf could make up for it nicely.

[TuggyNE]

rapid shot and multishot do stack. Also pathfinder did have some nice stuff.

They stack in PF (where Manyshot just lets you fire two arrows with a single attack roll as your first attack in a round), but not in 3.5.

[Kudaku]

What system are you playing and what books are allowed? As has been mentioned, the Pathfinder feats are significantly better for archers than their 3.5 siblings, not to mention they make more sense - if you can get a chance to take those I'd jump at the opportunity.

[ZamielVanWeber]

So I put together a basic list of feats:

1: Point Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
6: Precise Shot
9: Woodland Archer

But am not sure what to slot in for the last 2 feats. Many Shot and Improved Point Blank Shot seem okay, but are there any other good general archery feats?


Edit: I should have mentioned that. All books, Dragon Magazine is rare, and no PF.