Dracolexi Sorcerer Forever Empowered?

[CyberThread]

Am I reading this part wrong about Draco;s words?


You can use each Draconic word any number of times per day, but no more than one word can be used each round (nor can you use the same word more than once per round). No creature can be targeted by the same Draconic word twice in a 24-hour period.


So does that mean you can use, valignat(empower) all day long making a sorcerer/dracolexi an affective blaster?

[ahenobarbi]

So does that mean you can use, valignat(empower) all day long making a sorcerer/dracolexi an affective blaster?


Only 1 spell/round so if you cast regular & quickened spell you must choose which to affect.

But yes :smallsmile:

Note that Kobold can make up for the lost casting level with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) and Dragonwrought Kobold can enter at level 2.

[CyberThread]

umm no...

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks

[LordBlades]

umm no...

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks

True Dragons get to ignore all other prerequisites of a class that has the Dragonblood subtype as a prerequisite. It's somewhere in the Draconomicon.

EDIT: Now if Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons or not is a debate that's been done to death and to no conclusive result, but if in a particular game DM rules they are, the above applies.

[CyberThread]

That is like say seagull's are birds.

They are just flying rats.

[LordBlades]

That is like say seagull's are birds.

They are just flying rats.

Welcome to D&D, where gargoyles have a closer relation to goliaths (same type, monstrous humanoid) than humans do.

[Gemini476]

True Dragons get to ignore all other prerequisites of a class that has the Dragonblood subtype as a prerequisite. It's somewhere in the Draconomicon.

EDIT: Now if Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons or not is a debate that's been done to death and to no conclusive result, but if in a particular game DM rules they are, the above applies.

Actually, that rule is only for Dragons in general. Even Lesser Dragons ignore prerequisites of anything with "Dragonblooded" as a prereq.

The only things I know of that care about True Dragons are Sovereign Archetypes and (maybe) those draconic insanities from Dragon such as Spellhoarding.

[Zsaber0]

True Dragons get to ignore all other prerequisites of a class that has the Dragonblood subtype as a prerequisite. It's somewhere in the Draconomicon.

EDIT: Now if Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons or not is a debate that's been done to death and to no conclusive result, but if in a particular game DM rules they are, the above applies.

Where is that rule written?

[Karnith]

Where is that rule written?
It's in Dragon Magic, in the sidebar on page 4, and probably also in Races of the Dragon (though I don't own the latter book, so I can't check). Per Dragon Magic:

[...]
Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype. If a creature acquires the dragon type, it loses the dragonblood subtype.

[Feytalist]

I really think that's just a really poorly worded rule.

What I think it means is that dragons qualify as dragonblood, even though they are not dragonblood. All the other prerequisites still apply.

[Zsaber0]

Then I am unsure as to what a dragonwrought Kobold can enter at level 2?

On that list of things a dragon qualifies for rituals aren't mentioned, and the Dracolexi doesn't have dragonblooded as a prerequisite.

[Segev]

I have a sneaking suspicion that that is a case of poor choice of words, but that definitely is what those words say! (I suspect the intent was that "Dragon" type qualify for any prereq of "Dragonblooded subtype." Not that it override all OTHER prerequisites, as well.)

[Karnith]

I really think that's just a really poorly worded rule.

What I think it means is that dragons qualify as dragonblood, even though they are not dragonblood. All the other prerequisites still apply.
That's what it's supposed to mean, certainly. As written, though, if something (on the list) requires the dragonblood subtype, creatures of the dragon type automatically qualify for it. Yes, regardless of whatever other prereqs it might have.

[kulosle]

I really think that's just a really poorly worded rule.

What I think it means is that dragons qualify as dragonblood, even though they are not dragonblood. All the other prerequisites still apply.

Well we all know that is what they meant to say, but it clearly doesn't say that. It is poorly written, but RAW allows it. It's pretty dumb. Also True Dragons ignore the epic requirement of feats, but no other. But I really don't think this thread should become another kobold thread.

[lycantrope]

I don't know if its fair to say that RAW allows something if it requires creative interpretation either way.

[Karnith]

Also True Dragons ignore the epic requirement of feats, but no other.
Actually, any dragon of old age or older may select Epic feats, though the writers obviously meant for the rule to only apply to true dragons, as true dragons were the only dragons with listed ages when Draconomicon was published.

[CyberThread]

Does this mean faire dragon is a true dragon?


So I still win, dracolexi does not require anything to do with blood types.

[LordBlades]

I have a sneaking suspicion that that is a case of poor choice of words, but that definitely is what those words say! (I suspect the intent was that "Dragon" type qualify for any prereq of "Dragonblooded subtype." Not that it override all OTHER prerequisites, as well.)

On the other hand, there is a single race with Dragon type explicitly advertised as playable (Kobold with Dragonwrought feat), and I've never seen WotC care about and/or support in any way the playable monsters (creatures with listed LA appearing in the monster section of books), so it's entirely plausible IMO that the rule was written to allow Dragons to take all sorts of cool Draconic-flavored stuff without having the DM worry about how they meet the prerequisites.

I'm pretty sure though they never realized that rule allowed so much stupid stuff, like taking the Dragonblood Cleric 9th level substitution level at level 1 as a Dragonwrought Kobold and casting 5th level spells at level 1.

[ahenobarbi]

Ooops. I mis-rememberer that Dracolexi had dragonblood requirement :smallredface:

In that case I suggest Dragonwrought [Dessert] Kobold Sorcerer 1/ singer of Concordance 4 / Dracolexi X/...

Gives you a bit of extra HP, boost to weak saves, extra skills, a domain (extra spells & domain power), some protection from Compulsion effects & attacks.

[Gemini476]

On the other hand, there is a single race with Dragon type explicitly advertised as playable (Kobold with Dragonwrought feat), and I've never seen WotC care about and/or support in any way the playable monsters (creatures with listed LA appearing in the monster section of books), so it's entirely plausible IMO that the rule was written to allow Dragons to take all sorts of cool Draconic-flavored stuff without having the DM worry about how they meet the prerequisites.

I'm pretty sure though they never realized that rule allowed so much stupid stuff, like taking the Dragonblood Cleric 9th level substitution level at level 1 as a Dragonwrought Kobold and casting 5th level spells at level 1.

Due to the way substitution levels work, you'd just have first level spells. Your BAB would be +6/+1, however, along with saves of +3 and +6. DbCleric9/DbSorc7/Singer of Concordance 4 is a pretty decent build in e6, since getting third level spells with two iteratives is only possible with two classes (this and Mystic Ranger.)

Add the more controversial stuff ( loredrake + spellhoarding ) and you have +11 BAB, first level cleric casting and eighth level wizard ( ninth if you don't want +6BAB ). Add Stalwart Battle Sorcerer...

Taking high-level substitution levels before you reach that level gets kind of stupid and is, of course, something that very few DMs would allow. But it's RAW.

[LordBlades]

Due to the way substitution levels work, you'd just have first level spells.

Good point. The substitution level references the PHB table (not the specific level 9 line in the table), and since you are a 1st level cleric (despite having taken the sub level) you get the spells of a 1st level cleric. Never thought of it this way until now, but it actually makes sense.

[The Viscount]

Am I reading this part wrong about Draco;s words?




So does that mean you can use, valignat(empower) all day long making a sorcerer/dracolexi an affective blaster?

Yes, but as per the restriction, you can only use it against one targeted creature at a time, and only affect any given creature once per day. That makes the widen ability really, really weird, and I'm not sure when precisely it would be legal to use it. Also note it has to be a spell with the fire descriptor, but cold casting + energy sub fixes that.

[Rebel7284]

Isn't there also a minor artifact that maximizes all your spells AND breath weapon? May be fun to get. Makes blasting good. :D

[ahenobarbi]

Yes, but as per the restriction, you can only use it against one targeted creature at a time, and only affect any given creature once per day. That makes the widen ability really, really weird, and I'm not sure when precisely it would be legal to use it. Also note it has to be a spell with the fire descriptor, but cold casting + energy sub fixes that.

I always understood that when you use draconic word on a spell the spell is target of the word and thus 1/day/creature restriction does not apply.

[Devronq]

True Dragons get to ignore all other prerequisites of a class that has the Dragonblood subtype as a prerequisite. It's somewhere in the Draconomicon.

EDIT: Now if Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons or not is a debate that's been done to death and to no conclusive result, but if in a particular game DM rules they are, the above applies.

Its very debateable wheter kobolds count as true dragons i really dont beleive they should..

[LordBlades]

Its very debateable wheter kobolds count as true dragons i really dont beleive they should..

Indeed it is, I've literally seen hundreds of pages discussing it, and no consensus has been reached (it's probably the only D&D debate that is likely to have surpassed fighter vs. wizard in volume :smalltongue:).

In my group we consider them true dragons, but I can see reasons why people would disagree.

From a RP perspective, it might seem silly to have a puny kobold considered the same as dragons, one of the most powerful creatures in the game. On the other hand, especially in settings where there are established dragon organizations, like The Chamber in Eberron or Xorvintaal from one of the MMs, few things get more badass than a kobold coming to demand his rights as an equal.

From a mechanical POV, the big things are Sovereign Archetypes, Psychoses and Epic Feats (it's been pointed out you don't really need to be a true dragon for racial sub level shenanigans). I've got very little experience with epic stuff, but in regards to the other two, they're hardly an issue (no more than any other really powerful and/or abusable mechanical option). I've actually seen games where a Spellhoarding Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage was perfectly appropriate, even a bit on the weak side (it was a Sorcadin Gish, and even with all the tricks that brought his casting ability in line with a full wizard, he was still basically a worse version of the DMM Persist melee monster cleric we had in the party).

[Chronos]

The epic feats aren't usually a big deal, either, since it just lets you ignore the [epic] requirement, not any other prerequisites, and most epic feats require things like 24+ ranks in a skill, or 21 BAB, that you can't get pre-epic anyway, or at least things like extremely high ability scores that are difficult to get too much earlier than epic.

[The Viscount]

I always understood that when you use draconic word on a spell the spell is target of the word and thus 1/day/creature restriction does not apply.

It says that if the word would normally target a creature, the word can only target a creature targeted by the spell or within the area of effect for the spell. So you can still use it to be a better blaster, but you can't buff anyone more than once per day.

[JaronK]

For Epic feats, IIRC the only one you can get really early of any consequence is Epic Toughness for +30 HP. Not so great down the line, but a level 1 Kobold with 30+hp is pretty awesome. Go go Kobold Crusader!

JaronK