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Alcopop
2013-07-24, 08:49 AM
As a fairly socially confident person I am surprised sometimes by my own nervousness when it comes to role playing, particularly when rping characters of the opposite sex for the first time. Sometimes it even gets so bad that I will shamefully change the gender or personality of my character during the introduction. ugh.

Soon i'll be roleplaying a female necromancer to a new group where I only know two of the people personally. I'm going to be the most experienced by far and probably the strongest personality at the table, but despite this I'm already getting nervous about it! I really like my character idea and don't want to wuss out.

Do you guys ever get the roleplay jitters? Do you barge awkwardly through it or melt under the pressure?

Hyena
2013-07-24, 09:02 AM
I have absolutely no problem with playing characters of both genders or no gender at all (robots, yay), and the reason for your embarassment actually eludes me. Is it that you feel like you will be (or won't be, but should be) ridiculed for it or are you embarassed because you want to play female character in the first place? Is it something else?
Either way, do as I do and never care.

Amidus Drexel
2013-07-24, 09:11 AM
I've personally never had any problems with being nervous at the table, but I could definitely see how other people might.

With female characters, I tend to have them act as I would a male character, unless something's being specifically called out about their gender, so there's never been a particularly big difference there for me. *shrug*

Good luck! Necromancers are fun. :smallcool:

Segev
2013-07-24, 09:36 AM
As a personal rule, I generally only cross-play online, through text media. This is because the moment I open my mouth and hear my own voice, any ability I have to believe my character is the opposite sex is shattered.

That said, I have successfully violated the rule. The easiest way to do it, if you're really nervous, is to keep one step removed. Think of yourself as the author of this character's lines and actions in a third-person limited omniscient narrative. Describe your character and then say "She does this and that; she says such and such; she asks you about the so-and-so in this manner." Describe for "show" over "tell" where possible, but treat it like a DM running an NPC. Don't think of it as you BEING the character, but rather being a storyteller telling a story about the character.

hymer
2013-07-24, 09:44 AM
I've never gotten roleplay jitters specifically, but I imagine they are like any sort of social anxiety. If it isn't crippling, get into it, and it will get better and easier the more you do it.
One trick is to start out by telling people you're a little nervous and ask them to bear with you.
Another is to develop some stock phrases or little speeches and commit them to memory, something like character ticks that you can fall back on and feel secure about.

prufock
2013-07-24, 10:05 AM
As a male, I never play female characters. I think the main reason is the voice; regardless of how I have my character act, I'm still going to have a man's voice, unless I do a silly-sounding falsetto, which destroys the illusion anyway. When I DM, I'm forced to do female NPCs at times, so I deal with it, but I wouldn't want to do it full time.

I'm comfortable with my group, and don't get any nerves for roleplaying. I do have issues that pop up from time to time, though:
1) Forgetting to play my character. Sometimes I just forget nuances of my character and react in the moment in a way that's out of character. Now, I try to incorporate any decisions I make in game into the character, so if I'm playing a naive, optimistic nice guy but in the heat of the situation have him act harshly, I'll try to write that in as character development (adventuring taking its toll on his sunny disposition).
2) Getting out of my character's head. Sometimes I get invested in a game too much, and take away the character's emotions as my own. When this happens I'll spend days mentally constructing speeches, planning responses to things that might happen next, and so on.

valadil
2013-07-24, 10:47 AM
I've sometimes gotten that with a new group. When I'm with people I've RPed with before it never happens.

I definitely get the stomach butterflies when I GM. When I don't get them anymore is a sign I've lost interest in GMing.

Malak'ai
2013-07-24, 10:54 AM
I've gotten them before when playing a class or race I've never played before, but like others have said, get stuck in and it gets better.
The only problem I have in playing a cross-gender character is the emotional reactions. Something that wouldn't phase me personally as a male might freak my female character right out and I have a hard time trying to figure out exactly how to respond correctly.

BayardSPSR
2013-07-24, 12:18 PM
Don't worry about it. To be honest, gender shouldn't change much (in terms of RP). Look at this very comic, where Roy tries on the Belt of Gender-Changing: his personality stays exactly the same.

The biggest change would be in social pressures, of course. You can completely ignore that subtle voice in your head analyzing everything you do from the perspective of 'is it manly'. And since it IS social pressure, after all, you can rely on critiques of your character's femininity inevitably working their way in from the outside, through interactions with NPCs and other PCs.

Unless you're living and gaming in a feminist utopia, which I'm pretty sure none of us are.

Slipperychicken
2013-07-26, 04:30 PM
I usually get jittery when there's an expectation that I need to roleplay a lot. Then, every little thing has to go through the lens of "would my character do/know/say this", I also have to pay attention to other characters' stuff, and my IC decision-making goes down the tubes because I'm distracted and it makes cognition so cumbersome.


You can completely ignore that subtle voice in your head analyzing everything you do from the perspective of 'is it manly'.

You must not, however, regardless of the your characters' race, sex, intelligence score, or creed, ignore the voice asking "How can I make this more awesome?". Pay heed to that voice and cultivate it, for it will lead you to great things.

Gavinfoxx
2013-07-27, 06:37 AM
Beta Blockers!

Is there anything they can't solve?

Fibinachi
2013-07-27, 12:17 PM
Soon i'll be roleplaying a female necromancer to a new group where I only know two of the people personally. I'm going to be the most experienced by far and probably the strongest personality at the table, but despite this I'm already getting nervous about it! I really like my character idea and don't want to wuss out.

Are you my new player? If you're my new player, don't worry - you're doing fine (But for the love of drek, stop ray of enfeebling everything)

If you're not my new player, I suggest vodka.

If you're not liable to follow that advice for reasons of common sense, I suggest breathing out. The essential issue is feeling embarassed about not doing a good enough job, I think, because you assume "There must be a difference! I'm playing a different gender, after all!".

There isn't, really. You're already playing a person who can raise the dead. Compared to that, most other things are small potatoes. So let go of the little impulse to think "I must be doing this wrong" or "I am being strange", and attempt to cultivate a voice that instead says "What would X do now?"

And if you are my new player, remind me to charisma wrestle you at some point. Clearly I have the stronger personality! I do personality push ups every morning.

AttilaTheGeek
2013-07-29, 03:37 PM
Contrary to what you might expect, your choice of pronoun when describing your character makes a huge difference in terms of immersiveness.

A group of players who narrate their characters in the third person have a certain degree of separation from their characters. If you're sitting around a table and someone says "[My character] walks into the library. What do you think we should look for?", then it's assumed that the second sentence is said out-of-character. Otherwise, it would have been said as "[My character] asks what you think we should look for" or even "[My character] asks what [your character] thinks we should look for" for maximum separation. In this environment, speech is, by default, out-of-character. There's nothing wrong with it, but it does cause separation between player and character. It seems like that's what you want.

Conversely, a technique that amplifies immersiveness is narrating your character's actions in the first person. If the person across the table says "I walk into the library. What do you think we should do?", then it's all in-character. This is the key to an environment in which everyone thinks of themselves as their characters, rather than thinking of themselves as players sitting around a table. If you speak this way, it unifies you with your character. It might not work for you, or it could help you "forget" that you're a player and get completely into the game.

Alcopop
2013-07-30, 02:32 AM
Are you my new player? If you're my new player, don't worry - you're doing fine (But for the love of drek, stop ray of enfeebling everything)


Just to clarify, i'm not your player! as my game hasn't started yet (though yours sounds fun!)


As a male, I never play female characters. I think the main reason is the voice; regardless of how I have my character act, I'm still going to have a man's voice, unless I do a silly-sounding falsetto, which destroys the illusion anyway. When I DM, I'm forced to do female NPCs at times, so I deal with it, but I wouldn't want to do it full time.

The voice is a worry, I don't change pitch that dramatically and though I do great accents sometimes I worry how silly I look and sound when saying particularly "feminine" things. I know is silly and gender binaries are dumb but hey there it is.

That said anyone familiar with DR Girlfriend from The Venture Bros should know how little that matters after some time has passed. Seriously even as exaggerated a joke as it is it just becomes her voice after awhile.


Another is to develop some stock phrases or little speeches and commit them to memory, something like character ticks that you can fall back on and feel secure about.

Good thought!


The essential issue is feeling embarassed about not doing a good enough job, I think, because you assume "There must be a difference! I'm playing a different gender, after all!".

There isn't, really. You're already playing a person who can raise the dead. Compared to that, most other things are small potatoes. So let go of the little impulse to think "I must be doing this wrong" or "I am being strange", and attempt to cultivate a voice that instead says "What would X do now?"

I agree about letting go of "that voice" but as to playing different genders I feel it's largely about nuance.

I've done gender theory, i'm pretty up on how gender is largely a socially constructed performance ect ect ect. But I mean culturally we still exist within this binary (as do most of our games) and exploring the difference, constructed or not, can be really fun and is one of the reasons I like playing female characters in the first place. I don't define my characters on this difference but I certainly have their gender build into there behavior and identity.

For example a chivalrous knight may treat female characters with a tone of condescension or perhaps awkward politeness they would reserve for the "gentler sex" (quoteunquote). And this can bring up some really fun role playing opportunities.

It often depends on the campaign but while issues of gender may be played safe in a game they can be also be explored to really interesting effect.

Some people may want to avoid issues of gender, race and sexuality entirely in their games, and that's completely valid as I imagine some people would want a degree of escapism from these issues. But I find them fascinating to explore and I think useful to be able sympathize with people outside of my irl circumstances in a unique but prehaps shallow way.

Whoops I let that thought train get away from me a bit. haha.


Contrary to what you might expect, your choice of pronoun when describing your character makes a huge difference in terms of immersiveness.

A group of players who narrate their characters in the third person have a certain degree of separation from their characters. If you're sitting around a table and someone says "[My character] walks into the library. What do you think we should look for?", then it's assumed that the second sentence is said out-of-character. Otherwise, it would have been said as "[My character] asks what you think we should look for" or even "[My character] asks what [your character] thinks we should look for" for maximum separation. In this environment, speech is, by default, out-of-character. There's nothing wrong with it, but it does cause separation between player and character. It seems like that's what you want.

Conversely, a technique that amplifies immersiveness is narrating your character's actions in the first person. If the person across the table says "I walk into the library. What do you think we should do?", then it's all in-character. This is the key to an environment in which everyone thinks of themselves as their characters, rather than thinking of themselves as players sitting around a table. If you speak this way, it unifies you with your character. It might not work for you, or it could help you "forget" that you're a player and get completely into the game.

Well actually I much prefer "I", for the reason you stated above. I've played female characters in the past with little issue, there is usually some anxiety but you get past it, this issue i'm having is that i'm gaming with a completely new group of people and while they are likely more liberal then my last group the gender thing can be really awkward and i'm kind of dreading character introduction for that reason.

I guess it's an issue of being afraid of being judged? Idk. i'll take peoples suggestions here and try to work through it. I'll let yall know how it goes :).

JusticeZero
2013-07-30, 04:02 PM
First, when you are thinking about the defining things about your character, "is a girl" shouldn't be close to the top. Start your list with "Well, I raise the dead.. why do Ido that?how did Iget started?what else do like? What do I think about politics or food? What were my parents like?"

As far as the gender stuff, the first step, as always, is just paying attention and trying to infer how things look from that characters' standpoint. Then after you have some basic ideas on that point, you can work on trying to sell the identity of the character.

if something stereotypically "guy" comes up, just ignore it. No-saleing and ignoring masculine stereotype stuff lets the male image that you are stuck with erode away.

If something stereotypically "girl" comes up, interact with it - saying in character that you think it is hogwash counts as interacting. Don't TRY to "act feminine", just respond to things that are stereotypically feminine in any way whatsoever. Saying that you don't like to wear dresses, and that you prefer your hair cut short, and maybe trying to accomplish that or even trying to get mens' style clothes *still makes your character seem more feminine by association*.

The reverse also applies. If a woman were playing a male character in modern day, it would increase the perceived masculinity of the character to comment about how he "doesn't actually like watching sports", as long as that character made sure to do their clothes shopping behind the screen, since that is a stereotypically female activity. (They can still get clothes, just don't ever talk about doing it.)

These are entirely performance tips, by the way, not a profound statement about gender. The intent is to "sell" the identity of the character on the "stage" in an unoffensive, consistant, and believable way.

Sajiri
2013-07-30, 05:56 PM
I hope this doesn't come off rude (if it does, I apologise, I really don't mean it that way D: ) but I always find it funny when people worry about playing opposite sex characters as though the presence or absence of breasts affects it.

Granted, I'm female and I prefer to make female characters, but in writing I tend to have way more male characters. It really is more affected by society and to an extent, maybe class if you choose it. I mean, a woman who's a fighter or a barbarian probably won't be all that different in personality than a man, they have to go through the same type of training for example. On the other hand, a woman who's a bard might play up her sexuality a lot more (not all female bards but I can imagine that being more likely than a fighter).

Society is the bigger question. Does the world you're in treat women different? Or do they have the same opportunities as a man? If they're nobility/royalty they're likely to be different than commoners (providing it works like real nobility from the past, where a woman's gender was pretty important for..er, breeding I guess).

Alcopop
2013-07-30, 10:09 PM
First, when you are thinking about the defining things about your character, "is a girl" shouldn't be close to the top. Start your list with "Well, I raise the dead.. why do Ido that?how did Iget started?what else do like? What do I think about politics or food? What were my parents like?"


to quote myself,


I don't define my characters on this difference (of social gender) but I certainly have their gender build into there behavior and identity.

While I generally agree with what you are saying, all i'm exclaiming is that gender does get consideration, sometimes explored in a typical way and sometimes a subversive way.

Of course being a necromancer is hugely important, but I try to give all aspects of a characters life (within reason) consideration when building someones identity. Quite frankly "is a girl" may be as close to the top in importance as I desire, as some people are more defined by gender roles and behavior then other and dismissing that is dismissing wealth of role playing material.

As a person my behavior tends to fall more middle of the line between masculine and feminine. So my characters usually straddle this line as well.

Your advice here is good but my issue isn't with HOW to play characters of the opposite sex but how I might overcome the general social anxiety I feel when role playing these characters.


I hope this doesn't come off rude (if it does, I apologise, I really don't mean it that way D: ) but I always find it funny when people worry about playing opposite sex characters as though the presence or absence of breasts affects it.


Well i'm afraid irl we don't live in a feminist utopia so the presence or absence of breasts actually does have a fairly profound impact in the forming of identity and general social behavior of a great many people. Granted many people can see past the performative aspect of gender but even if we treat gender in an intellectually post modern way most of us still prescribe to these standards in some way, as they are the standards by which our society is run. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, clearly it's not, i'm just saying that considerations of gender aren't as superfluous as people are claiming. As you stated, they are in fact only as superfluous as the game worlds society allows them to be and seeing as most gms will be informed by,

A) Our society which has a very real gender divide
and
B) Classic and modern fantasy, which as a genre also typically has a gender divide.

Will often be at least a little.

In the context of the real world we can condemn the forced prescription of gendered behaviors as products of a patriarchal society, but in the context of gaming we can explore these things, as little or as much as we choose, in a safe, healthy and fun way. Much in the same way we explore ideas of violence.

In a somewhat serendipitous twist I think all this analysis has actually helped my anxiety. As if anyone at the table challenges me i'll at least be able to drop the book on them.

Sajiri
2013-07-31, 08:42 PM
Well i'm afraid irl we don't live in a feminist utopia so the presence or absence of breasts actually does have a fairly profound impact in the forming of identity and general social behavior of a great many people. Granted many people can see past the performative aspect of gender but even if we treat gender in an intellectually post modern way most of us still prescribe to these standards in some way, as they are the standards by which our society is run. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, clearly it's not, i'm just saying that considerations of gender aren't as superfluous as people are claiming. As you stated, they are in fact only as superfluous as the game worlds society allows them to be and seeing as most gms will be informed by,

A) Our society which has a very real gender divide
and
B) Classic and modern fantasy, which as a genre also typically has a gender divide.

Will often be at least a little.

In the context of the real world we can condemn the forced prescription of gendered behaviors as products of a patriarchal society, but in the context of gaming we can explore these things, as little or as much as we choose, in a safe, healthy and fun way. Much in the same way we explore ideas of violence.


I think you misunderstood what I was saying (I was at work while I wrote that, so I tend to rush). I didn't say anything about OUR society, my point with that statement was purely about a biological sense. Like I said after, it's more based on society and class, as it is simply 'being female' says nothing about a character aside from their sex.

I'm not saying men and women are exactly the same, but not all women are the same, just as not all men are the same. I know women are more prone to emotional responses than men, but that will tie in with other parts of the character as well. A battle-hardened soldier isn't likely to break down crying when someone insults her while the men are fine just because she's female, but say, a younger woman who has no real-world experience and low self esteem? Different story.

And a game is likely to be much better with equality than RL. Generally you would compare D&D to the middle ages, IRL in that time period women were basically just baby making machines, but an RPG? How often are you told in a game 'female characters can't be fighters, barbarians, paladins, etc because they're physically weak.' Biologically being a female character in a game has no meaning usually, it's all based on the society of the world you choose to play in and the other features you give to a character.

Alcopop
2013-07-31, 09:31 PM
I think you misunderstood what I was saying (I was at work while I wrote that, so I tend to rush). I didn't say anything about OUR society, my point with that statement was purely about a biological sense. Like I said after, it's more based on society and class, as it is simply 'being female' says nothing about a character aside from their sex.

I'm not saying men and women are exactly the same, but not all women are the same, just as not all men are the same. I know women are more prone to emotional responses than men, but that will tie in with other parts of the character as well. A battle-hardened soldier isn't likely to break down crying when someone insults her while the men are fine just because she's female, but say, a younger woman who has no real-world experience and low self esteem? Different story.

And a game is likely to be much better with equality than RL. Generally you would compare D&D to the middle ages, IRL in that time period women were basically just baby making machines, but an RPG? How often are you told in a game 'female characters can't be fighters, barbarians, paladins, etc because they're physically weak.' Biologically being a female character in a game has no meaning usually, it's all based on the society of the world you choose to play in and the other features you give to a character.

Well we are more or less on the same page then. I thought as you preambled your statement with an "I hope this doesn't come off as rude" It was targeted at me.

My statement, to clarify, is that I am not making any fundamental biological or psychological statements on gender, I am saying that behavior in our society is invariably influenced on culturally prescribed social norms.

And as the western canon of fantasy arises directly from our own cultural history AND modern society these influences often make it into our games, although usually in small ways. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Now there are nasty aspects of socially encoded behaviors, aka, all of sexism. But there is also some pretty harmless interesting stuff that can be explored as well. More so even something as nasty as sexism can be explored, challenged and subverted in role playing, as it allows a safe narrative space to do all that in.

There is no inherent need to have any gendered behaviors enter into a gaming session, as you mentioned most game worlds will not attempt to force women into medieval roles and I think that largely that is a good thing. That said without these pressures and challenges characters such as Brienne of Tarth, for example, cannot exist and that type of arc can be interesting to a lot of players.

Personally I prefer a middle ground. I imagine relentless sexism in a game world could get a bit tiring. But I still like the idea of female adventures being a bit rarer then there male counterparts, possibly a little underestimated, as it makes the character feel a little more special in my mind. And it makes role playing the opposite gender a little less arbitrary. To each there own though.

Sajiri
2013-07-31, 11:23 PM
Well we are more or less on the same page then. I thought as you preambled your statement with an "I hope this doesn't come off as rude" It was targeted at me.

My statement, to clarify, is that I am not making any fundamental biological or psychological statements on gender, I am saying that behavior in our society is invariably influenced on culturally prescribed social norms.

And as the western canon of fantasy arises directly from our own cultural history AND modern society these influences often make it into our games, although usually in small ways. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Now there are nasty aspects of socially encoded behaviors, aka, all of sexism. But there is also some pretty harmless interesting stuff that can be explored as well. More so even something as nasty as sexism can be explored, challenged and subverted in role playing, as it allows a safe narrative space to do all that in.

There is no inherent need to have any gendered behaviors enter into a gaming session, as you mentioned most game worlds will not attempt to force women into medieval roles and I think that largely that is a good thing. That said without these pressures and challenges characters such as Brienne of Tarth, for example, cannot exist and that type of arc can be interesting to a lot of players.

Personally I prefer a middle ground. I imagine relentless sexism in a game world could get a bit tiring. But I still like the idea of female adventures being a bit rarer then there male counterparts, possibly a little underestimated, as it makes the character feel a little more special in my mind. And it makes role playing the opposite gender a little less arbitrary. To each there own though.

I tend to start off with something along the lines of 'I dont mean for this to come off as rude' to get it out there that if I say something that's maybe questionable I really don't intend for it to insult anyone, but a lot of the time it seems it does more harm than good >_< ahaha...I think I should just put it in my sig 'at work, I rush my answers.' But yes, I do think we are on the same page.

When I initially said I found it funny, it's because quite often (not necessarily just here, happens with irl friends a lot) whether its a man wanting to make a woman character, or a woman making a man, they think too hard about it, and the character comes off forced, whereas if they simply focus on the other aspects of a character first it will feel much more natural.