The Warhulk (Full Class) (Poisoned World 3.5)

[LordErebus12]

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Class
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The Warhulk
https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83029.jpg

"Puny God..."
The Hulk, from the Avengers

Abilities: Constitution is paramount to the warhulk, the longer they can remain alive, the longer they have to wreak havok against their enemies. Strength holds a lesser importance, since they typically have quite large modifiers in the ability score. Dexterity helps the warhulk's reflexes, which aids in avoiding AoE's. Dexterity also helps their defenses, but can be limited by heavier armors. Charisma is good for intimidation, but serves the warhulk little beyond that.
Races: Any, typically Lesser Giant (half-giant), Orc, or Troll.
Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d12

Class Skills
The Warhulk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Jump (Str), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: 4x (2 + Int modifier)
Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int modifier


Class Table: Warhulk
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude|Reflex|Will|Special Abilities|Ability Enhancement
1st| +0| +2| +0| +0| Bonus Feat, Power Attack| +0 Str
2nd| +1| +3| +0| +0| Hamstring, No Time to Think| +2 Str
3rd| +2| +3| +1| +1| Great Swing| +2 Str
4th| +3| +4| +1| +1| Beyond Tough (+1 HP/level), Bonus Feat| +4 Str
5th| +3| +4| +1| +1| Impetuous Endurance| +4 Str
6th| +4| +5| +2| +2| Knockback, Mettle| +6 Str
7th| +5| +5| +2| +2| Bonus Feat| +6 Str
8th| +6/+1| +6| +2| +2| Staredown, Unstoppable Stride| +8 Str
9th| +6/+1| +6| +3| +3| Mighty Swing| +8 Str
10th| +7/+2| +7| +3| +3| Beyond Tough (+2 HP/Level), Bonus Feat| +10 Str
11th| +8/+3| +7| +3| +3| Impetuous Offense| +10 Str
12th| +9/+4| +8| +4| +4| Gut Blow, Improved Staredown| +12 Str
13th| +9/+4| +8| +4| +4| Bonus Feat| +12 Str
14th| +10/+5| +9| +4| +4| Flanking Blow, Overwhelming Power| +14 Str
15th| +11/+6/+1| +9| +5| +5| Frightful Presence| +14 Str
16th| +12/+7/+2| +10| +5| +5| Beyond Tough (+3 HP/Level), Bonus Feat| +16 Str
17th| +12/+7/+2| +10| +5| +5| Powerful Body| +16 Str
18th| +13/+8/+3| +11| +6| +6| Break the Unbreakable, Juggernaut's Defense| +18 Str
19th| +14/+9/+4| +11| +6| +6| Bonus Feat| +18 Str
20th| +15/+10/+5| +12| +6| +6| Massive Swing| +20 Str
[/Table]

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the warhulk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Warhulks are proficient in all simple and martial weapons. Warhulks are also proficient in light, medium and heavy armors and shields (including tower shields).

Ability Boost (Ex):
As a warhulk gains levels in this class, his Strength score gains an enhancement bonus. This enhancement bonus increases as noted on the Table: The Warhulk. This bonus does not stack. This bonus is lost if under a polymorph effect.

Bonus Feats:
Starting at 1st level, a warhulk gains a fighter bonus feat. He gains an additional fighter bonus feat at 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level. The warhulk must still meet all prerequisites for each feat.

Power Attack (Ex):
Starting at 1st level, a warhulk gains power attack as a bonus feat, in addition to his normal feat(s) for first level.

Hamstring (Ex):
Starting at 2nd level, as a standard action, a warhulk can make an attack at one target. If successful, the target must make a Fortitude save or have all movement speeds halved for one round per warhulk level. If affected by this ability again before the penalty wears off, he is instead immobilized for 1 round per warhulk level.

This penalty can be removed by magical healing that restores more than your Warhulk level in hit points, or by a lesser restoration spell or its like. Plants, constructs and oozes are not affected by this ability.

Beginning at 12th level, a target only needs to fail one Fortitude save before being immobilized.

No Time to Think (Ex):
Starting at 2nd level, a warhulk receives a –X penalty to all Intelligence-, Wisdom-, and Charisma-based skills, where X equals 1/2th of the warhulk's level. The exceptions are the Intimidate, listen, search and spot skills, which work normally.

Great Swing (Ex):
Starting at 3rd level, a warhulk is able to make a great, sweeping swing with a two-handed melee weapon (or a one-handed melee weapon held in two hands). As a full-round action, the warhulk can choose three squares adjacent to one another (he must threaten all of them). His attack applies to all creatures in those squares. Make one attack roll and apply that roll as an attack against each defender.

If the warhulk uses a special attack (such as disarm, trip, or sunder), this special attack affects only the first target; the other creatures are attacked normally.

Walls and similar obstacles can block a great swing. Start with one square that the warhulk threatens. Each successive square chosen must be adjacent to the previous square and have line of effect from that square. Two squares separated by a wall, for instance, can’t be chosen as adjacent squares for a great swing.

The warhulk may skip creatures, attacking only those he wants to. For example, if there are three creatures in a row—an enemy, an ally, and another enemy—the warhulk can choose those three squares for the great swing but strike only the two enemies. If a warhulk drops one of his foes with a great swing, he may make a cleave attack normally. However, he may do so only once for every time he swings, even if he drops more than one foe.

Beyond Tough (Ex):
Starting at 4th level and every six levels thereafter, a warhulk gains a +1 bonus to his hit point total per warhulk level. This counts as both the Toughness feat and the Improved Toughness feat for the purposes of prerequisites.

Impetuous Endurance (Ex):
Starting at 5th level, a warhulk reckless lifestyle and toughness enables its body to be pushed beyond its normal limits of endurance. The warhulk no longer automatically fails a saving throw on a roll of 1. The warhulk might still fail the save if the total roll fails to equal or beat the DC.

Knockback (Ex):
Starting at 6th level, If a warhulk scores a hit while using the Power Attack feat, the warhulk can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe struck, applying the attack penalty reduced as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage dealt). If the warhulk hits with a two-handed weapon, he can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check.

Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and the warhulk cannot move with the enemy he knocks backward. Bull rush rules can be found on page 154 of the Player’s Handbook.

Mettle (Ex):
Starting at 6th level, a warhulk can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping warhulk does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Staredown (Ex):
Starting at 8th level, a warhulk becomes able to strike fear into his foes by his mere presence. He gains a +X bonus (X = 1/2 warhulk level) on Intimidate checks and can demoralize a single opponent as a move action, otherwise as described in the Intimidate skill description (page 76 of the Player’s Handbook).

Unstoppable Stride (Ex):
Starting at 8th level, once a warhulk begins gathering momentum, little can stop or hinder the warhulk's movement. The Warhulk is immune to any effect which would hinder its ability to move, such as difficult terrain, dense undergrowth or a solid fog spell, as though the Warhulk were under the effects of a freedom of movement spell, although the warhulk can still be grappled and pinned.

Mighty Swing (Ex):
Starting at 9th level, the warhulk may use it's Great Swing class feature in place of any attack it makes; in addition, if the warhulk uses a special attack (such as disarm, trip, or sunder), this special attack affects all targets in the effect; rather than just the first target.

Impetuous Offense (Ex):
Starting at 11th level, a warhulk becomes truly dangerous, his reckless missed attacks can still prove deadly, rending through armor and bone with brutal effectiveness. The warhulk no longer automatically fails an attack roll of 1. The warhulk might still fail the attack if the total roll fails to equal or beat the AC of the target.

Gut Blow (Ex):
Starting at 12th level, as a standard action, a warhulk can make an attack at one target. If successful, the target must make a Fortitude save or be sickened for one round per warhulk level. Undead, plants, constructs and oozes are not affected by this ability.

Beginning at 15th level, targets who fail their save are also nauseated for a number of rounds equal to the warhulk’s constitution modifier.

Improved Staredown (Ex):
Starting at 12th level, even a glance from the hard eyes of a warhulk is enough to give his foes pause. The warhulk can demoralize all opponents within 30 feet as a move action or a single foe as a swift action.

Flanking Blow (Ex):
Starting at 14th level, after the warhulk makes a full attack, all those that were struck by an attack may be treated as being flanked so long as another ally is within melee range. This effect lasts until the beginning of the attacked foe's next turn.

Overwhelming Power (Ex):
Starting at 14th level, a warhulk no longer is limited by grappling foes. The warhulk still threatens squares while grappling and can freely move while grappled, without making opposed grapple checks. The warhulk still loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if it has one) against opponents it isn't grappling. (It can still use it against opponents it is grappling.)

Frightful Presence (Ex):
Starting at 15th level, a warhulk’s sheer brutality, fighting prowess, and terrifying visage have become a horror to behold. When the warhulk draws his weapon or growls, opponents within 30 feet must succeed on a Will save (DC 20 + warhulk’s Cha modifier) or become panicked for 4d6 rounds (if they have 4 or fewer Hit Dice) or shaken for 4d6 rounds (if they have from 5 to 19 Hit Dice). Creatures with 20 or more Hit Dice are not affected.

Any foe that successfully resists the effect cannot be affected again by the same warhulk’s frightful presence for 24 hours.

Powerful Body (Ex):
Starting at 17th level, a warhulk is treated in many ways as if he were one size category larger. Whenever a warhulk is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the warhulk is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A warhulk is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him.

A warhulk can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this ability stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Break the Unbreakable (Ex):
Starting at 18th level, a warhulk can concentrate all of his power, striking at seemingly invincible objects with enough force to destroy them. The warhulk gains a +20 bonus on his Strength check to break or burst a door or item a number of times per day equal to his constitution modifier (minimum 0). Also, the warhulk can attempt to break a wall of force (Strength DC 40, and the character applies his bonus to this check as well). Objects struck in this manner are denied any hardness or DR while resisting this attack. Alternatively, the warhulk can apply the +20 bonus to a single attack roll.

Juggernaut's Defense (Ex):
Starting at 18th level, the warhulk no longer provoke attacks of opportunity.

Massive Swing (Ex):
Starting at 20th-level, when a warhulk uses it's Great Swing class feature, it affects every enemy within it's reach.


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Feats
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Massive Toss [Fighter]
You can throw objects with such massive force that they affect an area.

Prerequisites: Brutal Throw, Great Swing class feature
Benefit: You may use Great Swing with Thrown Weapons, using the weapon's first range increment in place of your reach.

In addition, you may increase the range increment of any Thrown Weapon you use by your Strength score, rounded down to the nearest 5' increment. For instance, if the Warhulk has a strength score of 32, then he adds 30' to each range increment.

[LordErebus12]

Reserved for anything.

[Thunderfist12]

This is so cool...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thoughts as I see 'em:

Ability Boost shouldn't be enhancement-- that's usually a magic bonus, and it makes stacking things frustrating.
I'd stagger the Strength boosts by one level in either direction, so they don't synch up with BAB boosts like they do now.
You bonus feat progression is kind of weird. I'd drop the second-level bonus feat-- that way you get one every three levels, and the first has to be Power Attack.
No time to think is kind of irritating for a PC. The skills are already cross-class; don't make it any harder on the guy to contribute out-of-combat.
Beyond Tough is kind of pathetic.
Do you have to carry around rocks for Mighty Rock Throwing?
Lot of more-or-less dead levels (Beyond Tough doesn't count.)


Worst... well, it's a mediocre PrC spread out over an extra 10 levels. The upper 10 levels or so of the class are really sad, with only incremental upgrades of existing abilities.

I suggest coming up with new, epic feats of strength. I want to punch giants so hard they fly backwards. I want to throw puny fighters across the battlefield. I want to hit dudes with other dudes. I want to grapple enemies and rip their limbs off. I want to hit a dude so hard he just explodes. I want to be so freaking strong I can leap 50 feet straight up and head-butt a dragon. Let's see Powerful Build, maybe even size increases.

Feel free to pillage stuff from my Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227466)and Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276481)classes, as long as you credit me somewhere-- they both offer the sort of ridiculous physical power a high-level War Hulk should have.

[Amnoriath]

This base class is a classic example of what happens when someone takes a PrC and tries to make it a base class. While a couple of the goodies are introduced earlier it overall quickly stagnates in its power curve after level 8. While the War Hulk was made with the idea of giants in mind when making the original the sweeping boulder and rock throwing are not strong features especially in the presence of a well built Hulking Hurler.
It also has some of the same problems the original had just in smaller doses at a time. The truth is that the original as well as this suffers actually from a loss of damage potential due to the lack of BAB with power attack, leap attack, and shock trooper. Even with EWM uncanny blow the additional 20(18 with this) damage per hit doesn't make up the potential loss of 60 as well as additional attacks. Now, of course, the War Hulk can strike more targets and this is more dip friendly but you basically spread out that strength with a common enhancement bonus. As such it isn't worth taking the full 20 while the PrC would have been worth the full 10 in some situations.

[Amnoriath]

Thoughts as I see 'em:

Ability Boost shouldn't be enhancement-- that's usually a magic bonus, and it makes stacking things frustrating.
I'd stagger the Strength boosts by one level in either direction, so they don't synch up with BAB boosts like they do now.
You bonus feat progression is kind of weird. I'd drop the second-level bonus feat-- that way you get one every three levels, and the first has to be Power Attack.
No time to think is kind of irritating for a PC. The skills are already cross-class; don't make it any harder on the guy to contribute out-of-combat.
Beyond Tough is kind of pathetic.
Do you have to carry around rocks for Mighty Rock Throwing?
Lot of more-or-less dead levels (Beyond Tough doesn't count.)


Worst... well, it's a mediocre PrC spread out over an extra 10 levels. The upper 10 levels or so of the class are really sad, with only incremental upgrades of existing abilities.

I suggest coming up with new, epic feats of strength. I want to punch giants so hard they fly backwards. I want to throw puny fighters across the battlefield. I want to hit dudes with other dudes. I want to grapple enemies and rip their limbs off. I want to hit a dude so hard he just explodes. I want to be so freaking strong I can leap 50 feet straight up and head-butt a dragon. Let's see Powerful Build, maybe even size increases.

Feel free to pillage stuff from my Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227466)and Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276481)classes, as long as you credit me somewhere-- they both offer the sort of ridiculous physical power a high-level War Hulk should have.
"Can I have that drink now?"

[LordErebus12]

Thoughts as I see 'em:

Ability Boost shouldn't be enhancement-- that's usually a magic bonus, and it makes stacking things frustrating.
I'd stagger the Strength boosts by one level in either direction, so they don't synch up with BAB boosts like they do now.
You bonus feat progression is kind of weird. I'd drop the second-level bonus feat-- that way you get one every three levels, and the first has to be Power Attack.
No time to think is kind of irritating for a PC. The skills are already cross-class; don't make it any harder on the guy to contribute out-of-combat.
Beyond Tough is kind of pathetic.
Do you have to carry around rocks for Mighty Rock Throwing?
Lot of more-or-less dead levels (Beyond Tough doesn't count.)


Worst... well, it's a mediocre PrC spread out over an extra 10 levels. The upper 10 levels or so of the class are really sad, with only incremental upgrades of existing abilities.

I suggest coming up with new, epic feats of strength. I want to punch giants so hard they fly backwards. I want to throw puny fighters across the battlefield. I want to hit dudes with other dudes. I want to grapple enemies and rip their limbs off. I want to hit a dude so hard he just explodes. I want to be so freaking strong I can leap 50 feet straight up and head-butt a dragon. Let's see Powerful Build, maybe even size increases.

Feel free to pillage stuff from my Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227466)and Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276481)classes, as long as you credit me somewhere-- they both offer the sort of ridiculous physical power a high-level War Hulk should have.

First off, i think you missed the point of what i was trying to accomplish with it, so let me try to clarify things a bit.


First off, my friends and I all feel that the Warhulk PrC is rather broken, as is. From core, its a PrC accessible from fighter or barbarian at roughly 6th level, assuming multiclassing hasn't become part of the build too much, requiring large size (difficult to do without LA or Racial Hit Dice), the cleave feat, and a BAB of +5.

The biggest change from the core functioning was the abilities "No Time To Think" and "Ability Increases". I made NTTT a penalty to most mental skills equal to 1/2 the class level, rather than making ALL mental skills lose their ranks. I also increased the number of exceptions on skills; offering listen, search and spot in addition to Intimidate. This allows it to still take ranks and to actually use skills outside of combat (albeit at a penalty), rather than to be completely unable to do so.

Also, i changed the ability increases to Enhancement bonus, rather than flat increases. The logic of this was something like this, "where is this massive increase coming from? morale? doubtful... training? possible... some magical increase? not really in the flavor... enhancement? closer to the mark, imo".

I realize the fact that they offered no BAB increase with the Str bonuses was evident of the writers attempting to balance it, while still increasing damage output. My decision of changing it to Enhancement made some items and buffs becoming worthless, but it helps tone down a bit of minmaxing that could be done with this class. It means you can focus investing in other ability scores, such as con.

Id consider these two changes a huge leap in the right direction, while keeping with the flavor of the PrC.

Second, I'm not trying to make a extremely overpowered class here; looking at other core classes from 3.5, we see that most homebrew is above and beyond in scope and power. This was not meant to be so in this rebuild. I do know what is presented here is better than the core fighter on several points (still offering bonus feats, while ramping up str and hp a bit at the the cost of number of attacks and skills) and arguably better than the barbarian in damage output (perhaps not with overall toughness).

I first thought of granting Power Attack and Cleave at first level, but was unsure. you definitely will take it if you play this class, as it strongly benefits from it (as the original PrC did).

Beyond Tough is the toughness feat, more or less. Toughness is a filler feat and is pathetic, no arguments here. Bonus feats were staggered a bit to not step on the fighters toes too much. No, you dont have to carry around rocks, but at least they dont have to be EXACTLY 50 lbs. to throw them anymore. 3.5 is totally fine with dead levels, so as long as something is gained (even something small), its not exactly a dead level.

[Amnoriath]

Let me flesh it out for you here:
1. Power Attack gives 2 damage per point of BAB with TH weapons.
2. Leap Attack triples power attack damage with a TH weapon.
3. Shock Trooper gives up the attack penalty for defense on a charge.
Ergo: A full BAB character deals 120 damage of power attack for each attack without Frenzied Berserker.
4. Strength damage is 1.5 x strength modifer on a TH weapon.
5. At level 20 this character only deals 15 extra points of damage while sacrificing 2 iteratives. It deals 18 if you stick in a Exotic Weapons Master but of course lose the capstone.
Ergo: You actually lose damage potential by 45 points per attack if you stick it out the full 20. The original you only lost 40 while having stackable strength and being able to actually readily use the advantage of striking more targets with an exceptional reach 5 levels earlier. While one payed with lack of being able to Ubercharge it at least gave options of ready crowd control in playable levels.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll look at this more in depth when I get a chance, but I feel like I should point out that you really need to make the first level of this class worth taking. Level 1 Fighter or Barbarian or nearly any other PC melee class is more interesting and attractive than 1 level in this class.

[LordErebus12]

Okay, added abilities and upped BAB to mid range.

[Amechra]

The PHB is one of the least balanced official books in 3.5; balancing by Core is a really bad idea.

I'd suggest looking at the PHB II classes for something to balance near. It was about where WotC started getting their act together.

EDIT: In Improved Staredown... well, everyone can Demoralize. Did you mean to give them the ability to use it with a different action?

[LordErebus12]

The PHB is one of the least balanced official books in 3.5; balancing by Core is a really bad idea.

I'd suggest looking at the PHB II classes for something to balance near. It was about where WotC started getting their act together.

by core, i refer to any 3.5 WOTC books, including the Complete books, PH2, Eberron, Faerun, etc.

Not just the PH. I was merely comparing it to its closest comrades, the barbarian and fighter. rather hard to compare it to anything in the PH2. Although, the Knight has a lot going for it, just not much to offer this in way of abilities.

anyways, what about what i've done as of second edit?

[Amechra]

Core is just the PHB, DMG, and first MM (and Kingdom of Kalamar, but we don't talk about that :smalltongue:). That is what is generally meant by that; you are looking for "official".

Also, I would have to say that your average homebrew on these boards is not more powerful than all of the official material; a lot of it is around Tome of Battle levels, with very little of it ending up much more powerful than that.

As for your changes... You don't really get anything unique until 3rd level, and, well...

Staredown does not actually do anything but give you a +4 bonus to your check.

Knockdown is weaker than a 6th level ACF for the Fighter. Given that it comes in at 15th level, that's a bit late.

Rock Throwing is kinda silly that it gives you that particular range; why not "it must weigh at least as much as the Warhulk's Strength score, to a maximum of their light load"?

[LordErebus12]

Core is just the PHB, DMG, and first MM (and Kingdom of Kalamar, but we don't talk about that :smalltongue:). That is what is generally meant by that; you are looking for "official".

Also, I would have to say that your average homebrew on these boards is not more powerful than all of the official material; a lot of it is around Tome of Battle levels, with very little of it ending up much more powerful than that.

As for your changes... You don't really get anything unique until 3rd level, and, well...

Staredown does not actually do anything but give you a +4 bonus to your check.

Knockdown is weaker than a 6th level ACF for the Fighter. Given that it comes in at 15th level, that's a bit late.

Rock Throwing is kinda silly that it gives you that particular range; why not "it must weigh at least as much as the Warhulk's Strength score, to a maximum of their light load"?

fair enough, official then.

as for Knockdown and Staredown, how would you handle it?

I like your suggestion on rock throwing. how'd you word it for Rock throwing? im unsure on how to word it exactly.

[Amechra]

I'd move Knockdown down a buncha levels, make Staredown allow you to Demoralize as a move action, and Improved Staredown let you apply a Demoralize attempt to every enemy within 30'. You could then replace the Frightful Presence with the ability to Demoralize as part of the same action as an attack or charge.

I'd word it as "the stone must weigh at least a number of pounds equal to the Warhulk's Strength score, to a maximum of their Light Load."

For your average Orc Warhulk 20, they'd have a Strength of 42 (18 + 4 Racial + 20 from Ability Enhancement), which would result in a range of 42 to 2,768 lbs.

Of course, at that strength they can comfortably carry a bit more than 22 tons. And they are likely to actually have a Strength of more like 47+, due to level-up bumps and miscellaneous other bonuses.

Also, maybe they could get a class feature that changes their Power Attack limit to their Strength modifier? Give it to them at around, say, level 10, where they are getting about a Str of 30. Helps them keep up with the higher BAB classes in that regard.

[Amnoriath]

by core, i refer to any 3.5 WOTC books, including the Complete books, PH2, Eberron, Faerun, etc.

Not just the PH. I was merely comparing it to its closest comrades, the barbarian and fighter. rather hard to compare it to anything in the PH2. Although, the Knight has a lot going for it, just not much to offer this in way of abilities.

anyways, what about what i've done as of second edit?

1. Impetuous Endurance and Offense: very decent and flavorful abilities.
2. Staredown and Frightful presence: While they fit with the idea of coming face to face with a monstrosity they come late. A +4 bonus at level 8 with the same base action of intimidate is small. Frightful presence is a decent ability but it generally scales and at level 17 most of your enemies will be immune.
My suggestion would be to expand your battle options. One thing that I found contrary is how Great Swing has the control to ignore your allies but apparently it can't line up to trip or bull rush multiple opponents. I say allow it to line up them as such. In addition do something with your strength. This class gives it out it ought to have special options for raw strength to come in. The fact is you could probably get rid of the boulder throwing as mainly it was done out of giant flavor and as I said before the Hulking Hurler is far better at it. How about take these for a gander?
1. Collision course- When you move you can choose to make a bull rush attempt against any opponent in your way. If you are successful you deal 2d6(medium)+1.5 str. mod. in damage and you can choose which direction they move. You may only do this once per move action taken.
2. Momentous Blow- As a standard action if you are using a weapon at least one size category smaller than the opponent you can make a strength check opposed by an opponent's constitution check. If you win the attack is resolved as touch attack.
3. Uncanny Throw- If you have successfully bull rushed an opponent you can make a ranged attack at another based on your strength within 10+5xstr. modifier feet dealing boulder damage appropriate for the size of the opponent.

[LordErebus12]

made some changes overall, lowering frightful presence and improved staredown a couple of levels. i also added a few abilities.

removed all throwing abilities, the hulking hurler can do it better and it should remain like that.

added in powerful body, which functions like the goliath's powerful build racial ability (it also stacks with it).

fixed knockback, making it accessible at 6th level.

staredown gives a bigger bonus to intimidate and the whole ability tree is faster overall.

Added in overwhelming power, which attempts to outline what Amechra suggested.

Amnoriath's suggestion about being able to trip multiple foes was added in.

any other ideas?

EDIT: also, i need a 18th level ability now.

[Amechra]

Heh, I might have to make a feat for this to get the throwing advantages back; after all, it would be rather quick...

Oh, and for an 18th level ability...

How about something like the Legendary Dreadnaught's Unstoppable (http://dndsrd.net/legendaryDreadnought.html) class feature?

You could make it give you the ability to completely ignore hardness, and let you sunder force effects.

Because at 18th level, you should be able to smash "invincible" objects.

[LordErebus12]

Unstoppable (Ex):
Starting at 18th level, a warhulk can concentrate all of his power, striking at seemingly invincible objects with enough force to destroy them. The warhulk gains a +20 bonus on his Strength check to break or burst a door or item a number of times per day equal to his constitution modifier (minimum 0). Also, the warhulk can attempt to break a wall of force (Strength DC 40, and the character applies his bonus to this check as well). Objects struck in this manner are denied any hardness or DR while resisting this attack. Alternatively, the warhulk can apply the +20 bonus to a single attack roll.


what about this? the force check is a bit higher to hit, but with the added str modifier it shouldn't be a problem. added in a bit about ignoring hardness.

[bobthe6th]

Beyond tough.... why not reduce the number of repeats, and make it +1 HP/HD? HP is infact exponential in growth, so while +3 is something at level 3(not a ton, but something), +18 ain't worth anything at level 18. Why not cut it down to 3 itterations? 3, 9, 15? gives the same benefit at 3, double at 9, and triple at 15. +60 HP is relevant at level 20, and +45 is noticeable at level 15, while +18 at level 9 is decent, and +3 at level 3 is still something.

[Amnoriath]

Okay, what I meant overall in fleshing out what a full BAB would deal compared to your original was saying that it wasn't at all overpowered and it wasn't really competent in what you originally set it out to do. Now, though you have just overshined all tier 4 full BAB base characters in damage but still haven't given its own special sets of roles at appropriate levels. The truth of the matter is in a group not all people are going to have homebrew content so it is wise and appropriate that a homebrew should never completely step on the roles of an original unless of course it is a fix of an original. The fact is you have this large reservoir of strength start making options to use it in more than just killing things(Unstoppable is a start) and get rid of things like Overwhelming Power plus a few bonus feats.

[Amechra]

Fun fact: Overwhelming Power is not as strong as it looks.

By 20th level, you'd need a Strength of 50 to match a guy with a BAB of +20 when it comes to Power Attack. Even with a +20 to strength from class levels, that is a little hard to hit.

I will agree with you that this guy doesn't really have a niche besides smashy-smashy, but eh; actually, he does have one. Pack mule. :smallbiggrin:

Besides, if a DM lets one guy use homebrew, it is pretty likely the rest of the party will be using at least a little bit as well.

Bob the 6th has a good idea with that HP buff right there, though.

And that Unstoppable looks fine, I guess; after all, True Strike Con mod times per day at 18th level isn't too bad.

[Amnoriath]

Fun fact: Overwhelming Power is not as strong as it looks.

By 20th level, you'd need a Strength of 50 to match a guy with a BAB of +20 when it comes to Power Attack. Even with a +20 to strength from class levels, that is a little hard to hit.

I will agree with you that this guy doesn't really have a niche besides smashy-smashy, but eh; actually, he does have one. Pack mule. :smallbiggrin:

Besides, if a DM lets one guy use homebrew, it is pretty likely the rest of the party will be using at least a little bit as well.

Bob the 6th has a good idea with that HP buff right there, though.

And that Unstoppable looks fine, I guess; after all, True Strike Con mod times per day at 18th level isn't too bad.

You are correct in the number except you forget the increase is still a bonus, not an increase. So, it transfers into a polymorph.

[Amechra]

True enough... which leads me to suggest a note that the bonus is lost if they are Polymorphed?

Though the idea of a bunny rabbit (Baleful Polymorph) having 20+ Str is amusing... maybe have it so that if they change their form, their Strength doesn't change?

[LordErebus12]

True enough... which leads me to suggest a note that the bonus is lost if they are Polymorphed?

Though the idea of a bunny rabbit (Baleful Polymorph) having 20+ Str is amusing... maybe have it so that if they change their form, their Strength doesn't change?

So should they lose the bonus if polymorphed or should they maintain it? I never liked polymorph for all its overall power. things get insane when shapeshifting starts happening.


Edit: made some ability additions, some borrowed from Grod_The_Giant's homebrew entries.

[Amnoriath]

So should they lose the bonus if polymorphed or should they maintain it? I never liked polymorph for all its overall power. things get insane when shapeshifting starts happening.


Edit: made some ability additions, some borrowed from Grod_The_Giant's homebrew entries.

Just get rid of Overwhelming power, it isn't needed as damage is plenty in TH 3.5.

[LordErebus12]

Just get rid of Overwhelming power, it isn't needed as damage is plenty in TH 3.5.

why should i just get rid of it? i rather like it and it allows power attack to get up there past full bab classes.

if there is a reason beyond polymorph, please tell me.

[Amechra]

He might be thinking it needs to be gone due to how much stuff multiplies Power Attack stuff.

[Amnoriath]

why should i just get rid of it? i rather like it and it allows power attack to get up there past full bab classes.

if there is a reason beyond polymorph, please tell me.

Yes, because of what I first said today. This character has 9 bonus feats, has +5 attack advantage, more health, and Power Attacks more. Why be a barbarian, fighter,..etc? The fact is not all players are going to have or utilize homebrew in a group so new homebrew classes(not fixes) should be done in a way not to step on an original's roles completely.

[LordErebus12]

He might be thinking it needs to be gone due to how much stuff multiplies Power Attack stuff.

okay, that might be the thing that gets it removed. sure its a 3/4th bab class, but if its based off of strength modifier then gets that multiplied, it could be really "overwhelmingly powerful". :smallbiggrin:

what would be a good replacement ability? should i lower its BAB back down to 1/2?

[Network]

what would be a good replacement ability? should i lower its BAB back down to 1/2?
Replace it with a different ability, which you can name Power Overwhelming. Appropriately, the ability should allow them to cancel the damage dealt by enemies at range, directed at them or other people. :smalltongue:

[Lateral]

Mighty Swing (Ex):
Starting at 9th level, a warhulk can make a mighty swing. A mighty swing is like a great swing, except that it is a standard action rather than a full-round action. Thus, the character can move and make a mighty swing or (if he can make multiple attacks) make multiple mighty swings in a single round.

If the warhulk uses a special attack (such as disarm, trip, or sunder), this special attack affects all targets in the effect; rather than just the first target, with all the other creatures attacked normally.

That isn't how standard actions work. You can't make multiple standard actions with a full attack, you make multiple attack actions with a full attack.

[Amechra]

You might as well make it an "attack" action; that's what the Warhulk's Mighty Swing was originally.

Oh, and a feat:

Massive Toss [Fighter]
You can throw objects with such massive force that they affect an area.
Prerequisites: Brutal Throw, Great Swing class feature
Benefit: You may use Great Swing with Thrown Weapons, using the weapon's first range increment in place of your reach.

In addition, you may increase the range increment of any Thrown Weapon you use by your Strength score, rounded down to the nearest 5' increment.

------------

May I also suggest the following rewording of Mighty Swing and Massive Swing?

Mighty Swing (Ex): At 9th level, you may use your Great Swing class feature in place of any attack you make; in addition, when you make a special attack, you apply the effects to all of the creatures you hit, rather than just the first.

Massive Swing (Ex): At 20th level, when you use your Great Swing class feature, it affects every enemy within your reach.

------------

That way, it is easier to write feats modifying the class feature, potential PrCs have an easier time modifying the stuff, and, well, Massive Swing doesn't make you smack allies within your reach as well.

That's actually advice that I'm going to give to anyone homebrewing; if you make a class feature that is a straight upgrade to another one, write that class feature as modifying the earlier one.

So more along the lines of "you may now use X in Y manner" rather than "this functions exactly like X, except for Y differences."

[LordErebus12]

That isn't how standard actions work. You can't make multiple standard actions with a full attack, you make multiple attack actions with a full attack.


You might as well make it an "attack" action; that's what the Warhulk's Mighty Swing was originally.

May I also suggest the following rewording of Mighty Swing and Massive Swing?

Mighty Swing (Ex): At 9th level, you may use your Great Swing class feature in place of any attack you make; in addition, when you make a special attack, you apply the effects to all of the creatures you hit, rather than just the first.

Massive Swing (Ex): At 20th level, when you use your Great Swing class feature, it affects every enemy within your reach.

That way, it is easier to write feats modifying the class feature, potential PrCs have an easier time modifying the stuff, and, well, Massive Swing doesn't make you smack allies within your reach as well.

That's actually advice that I'm going to give to anyone homebrewing; if you make a class feature that is a straight upgrade to another one, write that class feature as modifying the earlier one.

So more along the lines of "you may now use X in Y manner" rather than "this functions exactly like X, except for Y differences."

Ive fixed it, as you suggested.

[LordErebus12]

Replace it with a different ability, which you can name Power Overwhelming. Appropriately, the ability should allow them to cancel the damage dealt by enemies at range, directed at them or other people. :smalltongue:

not sure on that one. seems too much to be able to deflect/redirect them like that without magic.

[LordErebus12]

Mighty Swing (Ex):
Starting at 9th level, the warhulk may use it's Great Swing class feature in place of any attack it makes; in addition, if the warhulk uses a special attack (such as disarm, trip, or sunder), this special attack affects all targets in the effect; rather than just the first target.

Overwhelming Power (Ex):
Starting at 14th level, a warhulk no longer is limited by grappling foes. The warhulk still threatens squares while grappling and can freely move while grappled, without making opposed grapple checks. The warhulk still loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if it has one) against opponents it isn't grappling. (It can still use it against opponents it is grappling.)

Massive Swing (Ex):
Starting at 20th-level, when a warhulk uses it's Great Swing class feature, it affects every enemy within it's reach.

Okay, ive made these changes.

[Amechra]

What do you think of the feat?

[LordErebus12]

What do you think of the feat?

Massive Toss [Fighter]
You can throw objects with such massive force that they affect an area.
Prerequisites: Brutal Throw, Great Swing class feature
Benefit: You may use Great Swing with Thrown Weapons, using the weapon's first range increment in place of your reach.

In addition, you may increase the range increment of any Thrown Weapon you use by your Strength score, rounded down to the nearest 5' increment.



Could you clarify it a bit? i dont exactly understand how it works.

[Amechra]

Basically, you know how Great Swing lets you hit 3 adjacent creatures inside your reach?

The feat lets you hit 3 adjacent creatures inside the first range increment of your throwing weapon.

And the second part... if you have a Strength of 26, the range increments for any throwing weapon you use increases by 25'.

Because you are strong enough to throw things really far.

Brutal Throw lets you add your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier when making ranged attacks.

[LordErebus12]

Basically, you know how Great Swing lets you hit 3 adjacent creatures inside your reach?

The feat lets you hit 3 adjacent creatures inside the first range increment of your throwing weapon.

And the second part... if you have a Strength of 26, the range increments for any throwing weapon you use increases by 25'.

Because you are strong enough to throw things really far.

Brutal Throw lets you add your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier when making ranged attacks.

i knew the bit about brutal throw. okay. i was confused by the second part.

[LordErebus12]

perhaps an ability to use an enemy as a weapon? it would probably require Overwhelming Power as a prerequisite.

[Amechra]

Well, there is already a feat to throw enemies...

[Network]

not sure on that one. seems too much to be able to deflect/redirect them like that without magic.
That was not the point ; I just couldn't resist the urge to make a pun based on a Starcraft reference.

[Amnoriath]

Okay, this is getting better. I really don't know why you have intimidating offense the way it is. The ability actually doesn't use intimidation and this class really doesn't have a use for denying an opponent their dexterity bonus. Why don't you just make it so when you make a full-attack you can make an intimidation check as a free action?

[LordErebus12]

Okay, this is getting better. I really don't know why you have intimidating offense the way it is. The ability actually doesn't use intimidation and this class really doesn't have a use for denying an opponent their dexterity bonus.

its more like your attacks are so powerful and frightning that foes trip over their oen feet to get out of the way, losing their dex. its not for the benefit of the warhulk, more for his allies (especially the rogue's) benefit.


Why don't you just make it so when you make a full-attack you can make an intimidation check as a free action?

why not... i dont know. it never crossed my mind. if it did, it doesnt really lower their AC or allow sneak attacks, does it?

[LordErebus12]

That was not the point ; I just couldn't resist the urge to make a pun based on a Starcraft reference.

Completely over my head, I've never played much of Starcraft.

[Amnoriath]

its more like your attacks are so powerful and frightning that foes trip over their oen feet to get out of the way, losing their dex. its not for the benefit of the warhulk, more for his allies (especially the rogue's) benefit.



why not... i dont know. it never crossed my mind. if it did, it doesnt really lower their AC or allow sneak attacks, does it?

1. Except forcing someone to lose their dex. bonus has almost always been treated as a subjective maneuver. In other words they only lose it to you as the base idea is that you did something to them to where they aren't ready for the next thing you make. They may very well be aware of others unless of course they do something of a similar nature.
If you want something to help the team out make it so each foe you attacked may be treated as being flanked so long as another ally is within melee range.
2. No, but it actually fits with the idea of fear this other really doesn't as it doesn't have an action to invoke any fear.

[LordErebus12]

1. Except forcing someone to lose their dex. bonus has almost always been treated as a subjective maneuver. In other words they only lose it to you as the base idea is that you did something to them to where they aren't ready for the next thing you make. They may very well be aware of others unless of course they do something of a similar nature.
If you want something to help the team out make it so each foe you attacked may be treated as being flanked so long as another ally is within melee range.
2. No, but it actually fits with the idea of fear this other really doesn't as it doesn't have an action to invoke any fear.

okay, fair enough. what should replace it?

[Amnoriath]

Scratch, I gave one after describing the problem with the other one.

[LordErebus12]

Flanking Blow (Ex):
Starting at 14th level, after the warhulk makes a full attack, all those that were struck by an attack may be treated as being flanked so long as another ally is within melee range. This effect lasts until the beginning of the attacked foe's next turn.