where did the spiked chain come from?

[CyberThread]

As far as fantasy goes, spiked chains seem a bit, obscure before it was RADICAL AND COOL!


Where did it come from as far as d&d heritage.

[BowStreetRunner]

Maybe from this: Spike and Chain: Japanese Fighting Arts (http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Chain-Japanese-Fighting-Arts/dp/0804805407)

[DR27]

Maybe from this: Spike and Chain: Japanese Fighting Arts (http://www.amazon.com/Spike-Chain-Japanese-Fighting-Arts/dp/0804805407)
Maybe. Either that or chinese soft weapons (rope dart, meteor hammer, chain whip). None had the spikes - just too dangerous to the user, but the spiked chain makes for a great fantasy image. 1/2e didn't have it, so I imagine the spiked chain was invented by the writers of 3e. Since it appears to be the only weapon contained within the original 3e PHB that never existed IRL, the writers decided to make it better than everything else.

[Lightlawbliss]

the chain whip is the closest irl weapon to the "spiked chain". a chain whip is a chain, and can have a spike on the end.

I have never even met someone who has even seen a chain/rope weapon used and thinks a spiked chain would be a weapon that would be possible to use without self harm.

[georgie_leech]

Probably as a weapon in artwork where the wielder was decked out in improbably spiky armour decorated with skulls and the like. It's certainly a gruesome looking weapon at first glance. Impractical certainly, but definitely gruesome.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's probably derived from the Kusari-fundo/Manriki-Gusari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manriki-gusari) with the typical fantasy trope of added spikes.

[Necroticplague]

it came from an easy 2-part process:
1. Take something you've vaguely heard of in real life (In this case, the fact a length of chain from a machine is sometimes used by thugs because while not horrifically lethal, it is highly painful, sometimes with sharp pieces of metal welded on for increased lethality)
2.Make it really stupid by adding extra crap to it(wielded in the center by holding on to two rings of metal the chain connects to, add very large spikes on both ends)
Viola, theres your new exotic weapon.

[Traab]

the chain whip is the closest irl weapon to the "spiked chain". a chain whip is a chain, and can have a spike on the end.

I have never even met someone who has even seen a chain/rope weapon used and thinks a spiked chain would be a weapon that would be possible to use without self harm.

Maybe if I was in full plate I could justify wielding a spike covered chain as a weapon. "Ok, ton of unarmored peasants attacking me? Time to break out the spike chain to slice them up and get tangled with literally every swing! WHAT FUN!"

[Person_Man]

The 90's (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheNineties).

Whenever I think of the spiked chain, I think of "AWESOME!!!" but completely impractical made up weapons from my childhood comics.

[ericp65]

Funny how something can go from pure suck to pure awesome in a number of years. I recall tons of spiked chain bashing by gamers until only recently. Now, I see people discussing ways to use the weapon to amazing effect. Interesting. The weapon never fits the concept of any of my characters, so I kinda pretend it doesn't exist.

[georgie_leech]

It's still a terribly ridiculous weapon. However, the ability to attack both with Reach and against adjacent foes (and threaten too) without having to enchant two sets of equipment, as well as make trip attempts, made people realise it had its niche.

[Spuddles]

Funny how something can go from pure suck to pure awesome in a number of years. I recall tons of spiked chain bashing by gamers until only recently. Now, I see people discussing ways to use the weapon to amazing effect. Interesting. The weapon never fits the concept of any of my characters, so I kinda pretend it doesn't exist.

Since 2003 I've seen most people agree that spiked chain is mechanically awesome and thematically real dumb. 2spiky4me.

[ArqArturo]

Well, chains just needed more dakka.

[MeiLeTeng]

I usually just ignore the picture, in my head I view it more as having spikes on one end and holding it at the other, which removes the issue of holding it in the middle and the ludicrous looking spikes that the picture has (before anyone tries to tell me that it's not how a real weapon would work, I don't care.) I mean reasonably the only fluff demonstrating how one would use the thing is from the picture and those mean nothing to me, I don't assume all my Abjurant Champions have moustaches either.

[DR27]

I usually just ignore the picture, in my head I view it more as having spikes on one end and holding it at the other, which removes the issue of holding it in the middle and the ludicrous looking spikes that the picture has (before anyone tries to tell me that it's not how a real weapon would work, I don't care.)
You pretty much have it right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSt_6cUHLYU

You can imagine holding with two hands for the power attack.

[Necroticplague]

I usually just ignore the picture, in my head I view it more as having spikes on one end and holding it at the other, which removes the issue of holding it in the middle and the ludicrous looking spikes that the picture has (before anyone tries to tell me that it's not how a real weapon would work, I don't care.) I mean reasonably the only fluff demonstrating how one would use the thing is from the picture and those mean nothing to me, I don't assume all my Abjurant Champions have moustaches either.

I have to agree, that's what I always do. It makes some semblance of sense, even if you would have a hard time imagining how you don't bean yourself with it. If you can learn for dire flails, you can learn for a chain, right?The spikes could be a modification to the weights that keep it straight while swung, instead of curving (i always imagine them as closer to railroad spikes that armor spikes).Meanwhile, the "official" thing is completely idiotic. Refluffing is really the best option.

[limejuicepowder]

I'd be pretty confident in saying the weapon was completely made-up. As for how stupid it it, well "most people" don't understand or picture chain weapons correctly. For exampe, the kusarigama: as shown in Ninja Assassin, people seem to assume the dagger is swung using the chain.

This is retarded, as there'd be no way to brace the dagger to ensure the cutting edge contacts properly. It would also be almost entirely useless against armored opponents, as the dagger would lack the inertia to slice through basically anything.

[Traab]

You pretty much have it right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSt_6cUHLYU

You can imagine holding with two hands for the power attack.

You know, watching that, I keep expecting that in a real fight his opponent would pick up a stick in his off hand and shove it into the path to tangle it up like putting a stick in the spokes of a guys bike. Bust up the rhythm then strike. I also wonder how effective it would be at deflecting a thrown rock. Seriously, pick up a rock, or a hunk of loose pavement, hurl it at his twirling ass and mess him up. I get the feeling thats not a good weapon to be forced to improv your moves with while its in full motion.

[Zubrowka74]

I don't think a spiked chain would work if held by the middle. I think it's closer to a metal version of the rope-dart. You throw the spiked end then pull/twist/whip the chain around to trip or entangle the opponent. Safer this way.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Besides looking stupid I always figured it was ridiculous that it does damage on par with polearms

[Lord Vukodlak]

Besides looking stupid I always figured it was ridiculous that it does damage on par with polearms

Polearms dealt a d10, spiked chains dealt 2d4.

[Zubrowka74]

Polearms dealt a d10, spiked chains dealt 2d4.

Some polearms do 2d4 dmg. Heck, some do 1d8.

[Nagukuk]

His chain sometimes had spikes sometimes not, and it could even come apart and become many many shruiken ... now you can enchant every single link of your fav weapon differently and cheaper by making it just a bunch of ninja stars that join together to make a weapon :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ghost+rider+1990&client=firefox-a&hs=vIU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PpTxUc-SNbar4AOkq4DgCQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=478#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=gZb0j7GonfNYQM%3A%3BsjiUpIcA3hx-gM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg.photobucket.com%252Fal bums%252Fv442%252Fel_amo_de_todo%252FGR20Danny20Ke tch20St.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.statueforum.c om%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D107024%3B577%3B800

EDIT: hmm image did not show up ... just check out Ghost Rider 1990

[Lightlawbliss]

His chain sometimes had spikes sometimes not, and it could even come apart and become many many shruiken ... now you can enchant every single link of your fav weapon differently and cheaper by making it just a bunch of ninja stars that join together to make a weapon :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/el_amo_de_todo/GR20Danny20Ketch20St.jpg

EDIT: hmm image did not show up ... just check out Ghost Rider 1990

fixed your image and threw it in a spoiler (You were trying to copy directly off of google images, you needed to get to the actual image)

and that pic doesn't show any spikes btw

[CyberThread]

actually no, that shows a weighted chain.

[Thrudd]

I think all are clear that the spiked chain as picture in the PHB is a ridiculously unrealistic weapon (along with the double axe, double sword, and dire flail). A flexible weapon either needs to have something extra heavy on one end to provide momentum for bashing damage (like a flail), or it's primary use will be for binding and trapping other weapons, or gaining advantage on an unarmed opponent. A rope dart or chain whip requires great finesse to use as an attack, the pointy weighted end needs to shoot out in a straight line in order to pierce anything. Any kind of armor will render it mostly useless, as it doesn't have enough mass, though they can make segmented chain whips fairly heavy. The primary method of using such a weapon requires winding and unwinding it around your body and limbs to redirect its momentum so that it can remain in constant motion. For game mechanics it should be Dex rather than Str based, allow for disarm and/or trip attacks without Attacks of Opportunity, rope dart will have 5ft reach, chain whip not. Chain whip can be 1d2 bashing dmg, rope dart 1d2 piercing, deals no damage against AC greater than +1 (assuming they have a helmet). Maybe have special rules that let you do 1d3 choking damage on a critical hit, or choose to automatically disarm or trip the opponent.