[PF] Rogue dip Archetype

[Crasical]

I'm working on a build, and planning on picking up two levels of Rogue at the start since I need a specific rogue trick, but since I don't intend on being a trap monkey I was looking at the various archetypes. I think I've narrowed it down, but I'd like some opinions on what the superior options are.

Roof Runner: Bonus movement when running about on roofs, and a sort of reverse triangle jump that lets you rapidly descend. Very cool and based on a skill I plan to keep maxed (Acrobatics) but also kind of overshadowed by a coil of rope.

Survivalist: Pure RP fluff. The character in question is an ascetic monk, so it makes sense he'd be able to survive off very little food and Drink.

Thug: Increased Demoralize power with intimidate. In character, flavorful, but I don't know how useful it would be without a way to increase the speed of Intimidate actions.

Poisoner: Another interesting option, but for that I'm planning on a gunslinger, and the weapon I plan to use (Culverin) is ambiguously worded as to if it can use pitted bullets or not, and even if the answer is yes they don't come in cartridge variety for quick loading.

Any that I've missed that would be especially useful? or thoughts on the ones I'm considering?

[Andvare]

Ninja. You get a couple of useful exotic weapon feats, and a ki pool, which is worth more than any other archetype alone.


At 2nd level, a ninja gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy she can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the ninja’s ki pool is equal to 1/2 her ninja level + her Charisma modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, she treats any Acrobatics skill check made to jump as if she had a running start. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Acrobatics skill checks made to jump by 1/2 (although she still cannot move farther than her speed allows).

By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A ninja can gain additional powers that consume points from her ki pool by selecting certain ninja tricks.

Just take this Ninja talent:


Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick.

[grarrrg]

Ninja. You get a couple of useful exotic weapon feats, and a ki pool, which is worth more than any other archetype alone.

You missed a bit that may be relevant:

The character in question is an ascetic monk, so it makes sense he'd be able to survive off very little food and Drink.


If the ninja possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, ninja levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The ninja can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.


Also, since Ninja is a sub-class of Rogue (basically a Super-Archetype), you can still take any Rogue archetype that trades away features you still have.
Granted Ninja already trades away Trapfinding and whatnot, so straight Ninja should be fine.

[Daftendirekt]

Thug: Increased Demoralize power with intimidate. In character, flavorful, but I don't know how useful it would be without a way to increase the speed of Intimidate actions.


If you like the Intimidate-ness you can pull with the Thug, check out the Rake (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake); it lets you drop 1d6 sneak attack in order to get a free Intimidate check. You can also drop further d6s for a +5 bonus each on the check.

[Crasical]

Ninja. You get a couple of useful exotic weapon feats, and a ki pool, which is worth more than any other archetype alone.

Weapon feats are nice, since the gunslinger levels after the rogue dip provide full martial weapon proficiency, so the exotics that the ninja get aren't redundant the way the rogue proficiencies are. As for class features, I'm trading trapfinding and evasion for poison use and a Ki pool. Poison has all the problems the poisoner archetype has, which I mentioned before, and my ki-pool is gonna be pretty much perma-locked at 1-2. That granted, not needing a run-up for acrobatics checks is pretty darn good, and all the options for spending ki are good 'Oh crap!' options. Ninja looks pretty solid, thanks for pointing it out to me.


If you like the Intimidate-ness you can pull with the Thug, check out the Rake (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/rake); it lets you drop 1d6 sneak attack in order to get a free Intimidate check. You can also drop further d6s for a +5 bonus each on the check.

I'm not sure how often a gunslinger is going to be triggering sneak attack, though, outside of first-round initiative victory shots. Did pathfinder noticably buff ranged rogues?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Thug and Rake are the best Rogue archetypes. The only ones I actually like, in fact.

Rake's ability can be replaced with Enforcer or Cornugon Smash, but neither of those feats is viable/compatible with some builds. Rake is certainly more useful for a ranged build to set up Shatter Defenses, due to a dearth of ways to intimidate with ranged attacks.

[Crasical]

Thug and Rake are the best Rogue archetypes. The only ones I actually like, in fact.

Rake's ability can be replaced with Enforcer or Cornugon Smash, but neither of those feats is viable/compatible with some builds. Rake is certainly more useful for a ranged build to set up Shatter Defenses, due to a dearth of ways to intimidate with ranged attacks.

Even if they're the 'best' rogue archetypes, I don't think they're right for this build. Three feats (Two of them almost dead feats, as weapon focus and Dazzling Display provide relatively small benefits) for a -2 debuff and 1d6 points of extra damage, no thanks.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, if you're only dipping rogue, Shatter Defenses isn't worth it, of course. I was just saying that's the biggest appeal of Rake, for ranged rogues. Without the feats, sacking 3.5 damage for a minor debuff isn't bad, though. Especially if the party can fear stack it to something worse.

Thug is probably your best choice, though, unless you have no intention of intimidating.

For a 2-level dip, Sniper isn't bad, either. I just hate that their 3rd level feature is obsoleted by a magic item from the same book it was printed in.

[Crasical]

Thug is probably your best choice, though, unless you have no intention of intimidating.

For a 2-level dip, Sniper isn't bad, either. I just hate that their 3rd level feature is obsoleted by a magic item from the same book it was printed in.

Believe me, Sniper was one of the first archetypes I checked. Unfortunately the 1st level class feature A) Only works on bows and crossbows B) Effects firing beyond the first range increment, which is something that gunslingers generally don't want to do.

Kinda looking more and more to Ninja, since that bonus on Acrobatics seems like a good route to 'Daring Deeds' and grit refills, not to mention the ability to burn Ki in an emergency for a little extra damage, move speed, or stealth.