Fighter Feat choices: anything better here?

[qwertyu63]

The title says it all

Half-Minotaur Human

Fighter 12 (+1 LA)

Str: 25+6:31 (+10)
Dex: 10 (+0)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 6 (-2)
Wis: 10 (+0)
Cha: 10 (+0)

Weapon: Huge +1 Keen Wounding Warning Greatsword (Strongarm Bracers)

1-Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
H-Power Attack
F1-Cleave
F2-Improved Bull Rush
3-Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
F4-Great Cleave
F6-Improved Initiative
6-Improved Overrun
F8-Improved Sunder
9-Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
F10-???
F12-Awesome Blow
12-Greater Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)

For the character style I'm going for, the underlined feats need to stay. The others can be changed. Is there anything better to put there?

[Gavinfoxx]

I would change everything except power attack. Remember, you can get better than monkey grip, that doesn't stack with monkey grip, from an item.

[qwertyu63]

I would change everything except power attack. Remember, you can get better than monkey grip from an item.

...Remember... I didn't know that. I probably won't change everything, but what is this item?

[Karnith]

...Remember... I didn't know that. I probably won't change everything, but what is this item?
Strongarm Bracers, from the Magic Item Compendium.

[Tvtyrant]

What sources do you have available is the first question.

If you have access to Tome of Battle then you should pick up the Martial Study and Martial Stance at least once, and with Martial Study I would even take it all three times. You get maneuvers using the Martial Study feat, which are awesome.

[qwertyu63]

Strongarm Bracers, from the Magic Item Compendium.

And bought... Now I need a feat to replace it.

EDIT (due to ninja):

What sources do you have available is the first question.

If you have access to Tome of Battle then you should pick up the Martial Study and Martial Stance at least once, and with Martial Study I would even take it all three times. You get maneuvers using the Martial Study feat, which are awesome.

I do have access to that book (If I were to list all the sources I can use, we'd be here all day. The short list is all of them).

[Gavinfoxx]

So why are you fighter 12, then? This, as written, is an incredibly low optimization character, and I suggest you scrap everything you have except the race and basic concept (minotaur guy with big sword who isn't very magical) and start over.


Read this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026

[qwertyu63]

So why are you fighter 12, then? This, as written, is an incredibly low optimization character, and I suggest you scrap everything you have except the race basic concept (minotaur guy with big sword who isn't very magical) and start over.

...The rest of this party is a Tibbit Factotum and an Awakened Bat Wizard (with a specialization yet to be selected)... High OP, this isn't. Also, the basic concept is just "Big guy, bigger sword, tiny brain." and I want to use Mighty Blow.

[Telonius]

Well, Shock Trooper/Leap Attack is an obvious choice, given that you already have Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush.

Any chance you can get Dungeon Crasher (instead of the Fighter Feats) at Fighter 2 and 6?

[lycantrope]

If you want to stick with fighter, pick two feats you can live without and take the dungeoncrasher substitution levels 2 and 6 from dungeon scape. It would work very well with a large character with that much strength.

[Gavinfoxx]

Don't take improved sunder, you just destroy your loot. Take dungeon crusher and shock trooper. Don't take the weapon focus, specialization, cleave, etc. Get a level of spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian.

[cerin616]

and use martial study to get stone dragon mountain hammer (or one of the stronger versions if you qualify) to ignore DR and hardness sometimes.

[Gavinfoxx]

Remember, awesome blow isn't that awesome. Read the handbook and the pages it links to, to understand good melee feats. You have misjudged the value of most of your feats.

[INoKnowNames]

Qwerty, aren't Half Minotaurs Large? That is how you're qualifying for Awesome Blow, right?

If that's the case, why take Awesome Blow, when you can take the actually awesome Knock Back (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/knockback--1724/) instead?

Heck, if you've got too many feat choices and don't need the skill points (since you've got a 6 in Int, I can't assume that you do), maybe make him a Half Minotaur Goliath instead? You wouldn't need to waste money on Strong Arm Bracers, if I recall right, if you did this.

[Feytalist]

If you're going Weapon Specialisation, you might as well get Melee Weapon Mastery and Slashing Flurry (or whatever that feat is called).

Also: how the hell are you getting Weapon Specialisation at level 3? Am I missing something?

[qwertyu63]

Qwerty, aren't Half Minotaurs Large? That is how you're qualifying for Awesome Blow, right?

If that's the case, why take Awesome Blow, when you can take the actually awesome Knock Back (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/knockback--1724/) instead?

Heck, if you've got too many feat choices and don't need the skill points (since you've got a 6 in Int, I can't assume that you do), maybe make him a Half Minotaur Goliath instead? You wouldn't need to waste money on Strong Arm Bracers, if I recall right, if you did this.

3 things:

1: Yes they are, and that looks like a better feat, that will do.

2: I think I might use that race combo.

3: You now have me picturing how such a character could come into being... Curse you.


Also: how the hell are you getting Weapon Specialisation at level 3? Am I missing something?

Because I am a derp, who in re-arranging feats forgot the level requirement on that.

[PraxisVetli]

If it's sheer damage you're looking for, consider the ever hilarious War Hulk.
NO Base Attack, but +2 Str every level...
FEED that Power Attack, FEED IT.

Also, absolutely, Leap Attack and Shock Trooper!

[INoKnowNames]

3: You now have me picturing how such a character could come into being... Curse you.

Two things. First of all, you were the one who tried to imagine that, not me. I didn't do anything but give an optimization suggestion. Moooo.

Second of all, is that image any worse than figuring out how a Half Minotaur Human came into being? And in both cases, who was the father and who was the mother? >:p

Additional tip, since I don't see it mentioned. You mentioned this was a low op game, but I still see no reason not to suggest the Zhentarium Fighter bonus levels if you want to stick it out as a Fighter for so long. Big Strong Bull Man is Scary, too!

[qwertyu63]

If it's sheer damage you're looking for, consider the ever hilarious War Hulk.
NO Base Attack, but +2 Str every level...
FEED that Power Attack, FEED IT.

Also, absolutely, Leap Attack and Shock Trooper!

I was looking at that class...

[Tvtyrant]

I would pick Bear Warrior over Warhulk. It keeps up on strength boosts with the Warhulk but also has full BaB and doesn't cause you to lose access to all of your thinking abilities. Take Extend Rage and Extra Rage for more bear time and you can still Bullrush people into things.

The build would go Fighter 6/Barbarian 1/Bear Warrior 10/Something else three.

[Karnith]

FEED that Power Attack, FEED IT.
War Hulk is actually not that good for Power Attack builds, unless they have some way of counteracting the lack of BAB progression (e.g. Divine Power).

[Deox]

While War Hulk does increase strength a large amount, Power Attack is still limited by your base attack.

Unless you're adding extra power attack multipliers (Battle Jump, Leap Attack, and the like), War Hulk may not be worth it.

[qwertyu63]

While War Hulk does increase strength a large amount, Power Attack is still limited by your base attack.

Unless you're adding extra power attack multipliers (Battle Jump, Leap Attack, and the like), War Hulk may not be worth it.

I'm dealing plenty of damage already. I know it is a good feat in it's own right, but I'm only taking Power Attack because it is a Pre-Req for what I really want. That said, I will be looking into some sort of item of Divine Power.

[PraxisVetli]

While War Hulk does increase strength a large amount, Power Attack is still limited by your base attack.

Unless you're adding extra power attack multipliers (Battle Jump, Leap Attack, and the like), War Hulk may not be worth it.

I meant for damage, and also Shock Trooper would remove the BAB limitations.
And I did suggest the extra multipliers..

[Deox]

I meant for damage, and also Shock Trooper would remove the BAB limitations.
And I did suggest the extra multipliers..

How does Shock Trooper remove the limitations of base attack for power attack exactly? It states you may assign any portion of the power attack penalty to AC instead, up to a maximum of your base attack bonus.

[Deox]

I'm dealing plenty of damage already. I know it is a good feat in it's own right, but I'm only taking Power Attack because it is a Pre-Req for what I really want. That said, I will be looking into some sort of item of Divine Power.

If you're going full base attack progression, Divine Power may not help you as much as you'd like as you'd only gain some temp hp and a +6 enhancement bonus to strength. I'm AFB, but I would think an item of Divine Power would be more expensive (unless with limited uses or other cost reducers) than a +6 enhancement item.

[qwertyu63]

If you're going full base attack progression, Divine Power may not help you as much as you'd like as you'd only gain some temp hp and a +6 enhancement bonus to strength. I'm AFB, but I would think an item of Divine Power would be more expensive (unless with limited uses or other cost reducers) than a +6 enhancement item.

Yeah, that item is if I take Warhulk. I already have a +6 enhancement item.

[Deox]

Honestly, scrap War Hulk if you feel you're comfortable with your damage output and you are not going into a route with power attack multipliers.

Tvtyrant mentioned Barbarian + Bear Warrior, which is a pretty strong choice.

As an aside, are you trying to stay as close to straight 12 Fighter? Or is splashing/dipping acceptable?

[qwertyu63]

As an aside, are you trying to stay as close to straight 12 Fighter? Or is splashing/dipping acceptable?

I would rather not do dipping (especially into the Barbarian, which I hate playing).

Also, at this point, I think I'm done here. Anyone who can lift Groudon along with 6 identical clones of Groudon without exceeding his light load (assuming I read the carrying rules right) has impressed me enough to stay as is.

/thread

[Gavinfoxx]

Why do you hate playing barbarian? You know you can play barbarian identically to the fighter, as a concept?

Hell, I view Robert E Howard's Conan as:

Spirit Lion Totem, Bear Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2 / Wilderness, Penetrating Strike Rogue 3 / Strong-Arm, Skilled City Dweller (trade Ride for Tumble) Ranger 3 / Zhentarim Soldier, Thug, Dungeon Crusher, Hit and Run, Physical Prowess, Skilled City Dweller (trade Ride for Tumble) Fighter 3 / Warblade 2

In other words... nonmagical melee NEEDS to do lots of multiclassing, unless you are straight warblade or something.

[Deox]

Why do you hate playing barbarian? You know you can play barbarian identically to the fighter, as a concept?

Hell, I view Robert E Howard's Conan as:

Spirit Lion Totem, Bear Totem, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2 / Wilderness, Penetrating Strike Rogue 3 / Strong-Arm, Skilled City Dweller (trade Ride for Tumble) Ranger 3 / Zhentarim Soldier, Thug, Dungeon Crusher, Hit and Run, Physical Prowess, Skilled City Dweller (trade Ride for Tumble) Fighter 3 / Warblade 2

In other words... nonmagical melee NEEDS to do lots of multiclassing, unless you are straight warblade or something.

Yeah, that guy would pretty much tank anything with his chest.

[Cyphrus]

Hi there, I was just reading your post, I know it might not prove too usefull as of now, but if you are willing to splash in a few classes, a simple build would be something like:

Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Barbarian 2/Warblade 4

HBF - Imp. Bullrush (PHB)
1 Power Attack (PHB)
1 FBF - (Open)
2 FBF - Dungeoncrasher part 1 (Dungeonscape)
3 Knockback (Races of Stone)
4 FBF - Imp. Sunder (PHB)
5 -
6 Dungeoncrasher part 2, Shocktrooper (Complete Warrior)
7 Barbarian Level, trade fast movement for Pounce (Complete Champion)
8 Barbarian , Optional, trade Uncanny dodge for Trip (Unearthed Arcana)
9 Warblade 1 , Combat brute, gain maneuvers. (Tome of Battle)
10 Warblade 2
11 Warblade 3
12 Warblade 4 (Open Feat)

With this set-up, it it just a simple warrior with a few tricks in it's bag. You can gain nice defensive options from the maneuvers, you can charge with the best of them, knock people around and trip them up.

It's just an idea.

[Nightraiderx]

You forgot knockback in that equation Cyphrus, that's the only reason combat brute is also good combo, you charge, push them back, charge again (extra bonuses to hit and increased power attack multiplier from combat brute's two other good abilities)

[Cyphrus]

...Look at level three in the build... :smallconfused:

[SowZ]

Battlejump.

[Nightraiderx]

my bad. completely dropped the ball on that one, tiredness is getting to me lol.

[cerin616]

Power attack, leap attack, shock trooper, imp bullrush, knockback, 6th level dungeoncrasher and be the minotaur

Leap at someone, hit them with chargeresque stupid high damage, knock them back with a bullrush based on your attack. If they hit a wall, they take an insane amount of damage, again.

Throw in a warblade manuver that allows you to ignore DR and hardness, and you break pretty much anything ever.

Why go through the maze when you can, well, go through the maze

[Sugashane]

Add the valorous weapon enchantment (+1) to deal double damage on charges as well. It is quite satisfying to be able to charge, call knockback before the hit, use Power attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack together and deal 150 damage, then the opponent has to make an opposed strength check against a DC of 150. When they lose by 125 (we'll say they rolled a 20 and had a +5 STR mod)they get flung 125 ft back, likely hitting something doind more damage from Dungeoncrasher.

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned combat brute. If you do a Power Attack of 12 on the charge, then using Combat Brute's Momuntum Swing maneuver the next round you get 36 damage to each attack you land this round, assuming you are using a 2-H weapon.

Also deadly when combined with Robilar's Gambit, a feat you should pick up ASAP since you're 12th level (Combat reflexes is the other prereq). Let opponents have +4 to attack and damage on you while you adopt that stance, but EVERY attack they throw at you you get an AoO. EVERY melee attack.

Let the healer be useful, you'll do more damage than you take by far. This is wonderful in gestalt builds especially, or when you have access to spells like Wraithstrike and Rhino's Rush. :smallbiggrin:

[cerin616]

Add the valorous weapon enchantment (+1) to deal double damage on charges as well. It is quite satisfying to be able to charge, call knockback before the hit, use Power attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack together and deal 150 damage, then the opponent has to make an opposed strength check against a DC of 150. When they lose by 125 (we'll say they rolled a 20 and had a +5 STR mod)they get flung 125 ft back, likely hitting something doind more damage from Dungeoncrasher.

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned combat brute. If you do a Power Attack of 12 on the charge, then using Combat Brute's Momuntum Swing maneuver the next round you get 36 damage to each attack you land this round, assuming you are using a 2-H weapon.

Also deadly when combined with Robilar's Gambit, a feat you should pick up ASAP since you're 12th level (Combat reflexes is the other prereq). Let opponents have +4 to attack and damage on you while you adopt that stance, but EVERY attack they throw at you you get an AoO. EVERY melee attack.

Let the healer be useful, you'll do more damage than you take by far. This is wonderful in gestalt builds especially, or when you have access to spells like Wraithstrike and Rhino's Rush. :smallbiggrin:

Stormguard warrior all those AoO into bonus damage, then use overwhelming assault (16th fighter ACF) to deal double damage instead of multiple attacks, lasts until your next turn and all your AoOs do double damage.