Master Focused Specialist: is it worth it?

[SethoMarkus]

I was looking over the Reserve Feats in Complete Mage when I got distracted by some of the other features, and it caused me to question something I hadn't thought about before.

Take a Gnome Focused Specialist Wizard (Illusion). Would it be more or less beneficial to take the Master Specialist PrC? As far as I can tell, you would only lose out on the Wizard's Bonus Feats, but gain several little perks as you level through Master Specialist. Is this a beneficial trade off?

Let's say I wanted to follow the Killer Gnome idea, with Shadow Evocations and the like; would I necessarily need those feats, to be effective?

I'm not looking for a high OP build or anything, and I would most likely start at a lower level and end up as something like Wizard 5/Master Specialist 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. My question is, is Master Specialist worth it? Or is it better to just go Focused Specialist into Shadowcraft Mage, maybe with some of the UA specialist variants?

[Flickerdart]

You must also consider all the ACFs you're giving up, like Spontaneous Divination.

[Spuddles]

The real work horse of Killer Gnome builds isn't actually Shadowcraft Mage, it's the ten levels of Shadow Adept from forgotten realms.

Master Specialist is useful for dispelling builds, as well as mild optimization for Archmages and Loremasters. It has it's uses. It's typically better than straight wizard (depending on specialty), if you aren't planning on crafting. Most of what you get from wizard is at level 1 (specialization, familiar, bonus feat, and ACFs trading those out).

Spontaneous Divination via Complete Champion is the only reason to take more than one or two levels of wizard. Level 5 gets you spontaneous divinations.

[Karnith]

Spontaneous Divination via Complete Champion is the only reason to take more than one or two levels of wizard. Level 5 gets you spontaneous divinations.
The gnome illusionist sub level at Wizard 5 can be pretty good, too. Free extend to your illusion spells in exchange for the Wizard 5 bonus feat and your two free spells known.

[Pilo]

Well, it delays your main killer build part so no.

[SethoMarkus]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Again, I'm not really going for high OP, but it seems like Master Specialist wouldn't be worth it. I'll take a look at other ACFs and the like and stick to starting out as a Focused Specialist.

And Pilo, I most likely would alternate between PrCs rather than take one straight for 5-10 levels, but I suppose it would delay either way.

[Big Fau]

The real work horse of Killer Gnome builds isn't actually Shadowcraft Mage, it's the ten levels of Shadow Adept from forgotten realms.

Shadow Adept allows the Shadowcraft Mage's class features to be more efficient, but SCM is the reason the Killer Gnome is capable of turning Minor Image into Shadow Evocations (well, and Heighten Spell+Earth Spell).

And the SCM is why Shadow Miracles are possible, not Shadow Adept.

[Spuddles]

Shadow Adept allows the Shadowcraft Mage's class features to be more efficient, but SCM is the reason the Killer Gnome is capable of turning Minor Image into Shadow Evocations (well, and Heighten Spell+Earth Spell).

And the SCM is why Shadow Miracles are possible, not Shadow Adept.

Yes, but the quasireality without Shadow Adept makes it so Shadowcraft Mage isn't absolutely ridiculous. Shadow Adept gets you more real than real.

At most, SCM is getting you spell level +20% reality. So a 5th level blast has 70% damage behind it.

I also don't agree that SCM gets you Shadow Miracles, as Miracle is not on the Sorc/Wizard list.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

While Shadow Adept adds more reality to your illusions, it is nowhere near the strength that the SCM gives by allowing Heighten Spell to do what it does. Add to the fact that there exists a feat in either an FR or a Dragon magazine that adds another 10 or 20% makes 10 levels in Shadow Adept less than necessary.

[MirddinEmris]

I think that by Shadow Adept you mean Shadowcrafter. Shadow Adept is good for 1 level dip to gain some nice feats. And Shadowcrafter doesn't increase your ScM 'realism' of your Shadow Illusion ability, it only increases Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spells specifically.

And yes, ScM is the base for the Killer Gnome, not Shadowcrafter. Increasing reality percent is good, but sheer versatility of Shadow Illusion is much, much greater. After all, there are spell that doesn't care about how mucj real they are, after all you can easily fail your own save for buffs and such. Though capstone of becoming an outsider and ability to make save against illusions without interracting with them earns some points to Shadowcrafter :)

On completely unrelated note: Shadowrun Returns in thirty minutes :smallsmile:

[Big Fau]

Yes, but the quasireality without Shadow Adept makes it so Shadowcraft Mage isn't absolutely ridiculous. Shadow Adept gets you more real than real.

At most, SCM is getting you spell level +20% reality. So a 5th level blast has 70% damage behind it.

I also don't agree that SCM gets you Shadow Miracles, as Miracle is not on the Sorc/Wizard list.

Damage really isn't that good anyway, even with Shadow Adept. You're better off trying the alter reality with your illusions by taking Arcane Disciple: Luck. You now have Shadow Miracles.