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Cheiromancer
2013-07-25, 11:12 AM
I am thinking of alignment in D&D terms, but other game systems can really offer a creative spin, particularly for evil alignments. And by 'evil' I don't mean playing a murder hobo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294245). That's boring and off-putting. But there are some other possibilities, even for chaotic evil.

One thing I do, is take the outer plane corresponding to an alignment as indicating how a character of that alignment sees the real world. If you are lawful neutral, you see the world as an intricate clockwork device, functioning according to knowable (even if unknown) rules. If you are lawful evil, you see the world as harsh and ugly, where the strong rule because they are stronger and smarter than everyone else. A good person sees the world as basically good and beautiful; a chaotic person does not see any overall pattern to the world, but only particular events. And so on.

Something I read - I think it was in this forum, but I am not sure - was how the inhabitants of Hell (or was it the Abyss? Some bad place, anyway) love everyone unconditionally, no matter how ugly they are or how atrocious their behavior. In this view, lawfulness and/or goodness are just ways of being judgmental to those who look or behave differently than you are used to, and these judgmental attitudes can best be protested by open defiance. Now add in a bit of Clive Barker's Hellraiser, wherein it is revealed that to true aesthetes pain is as much to be pursued and cultivated as pleasure. (In the book at least; I've never seen the movie) The result is that no matter how awful the lower planes appear to us, and how terrible the suffering there, to the inhabitants it is all to be celebrated and embraced.

This completely breaks the paradigm of good/evil = unselfish/selfish and law/chaos = rule following/breaking that are common takes on alignment.

Has anything struck you as providing a fresh take on understanding alignment?

Geostationary
2013-07-25, 03:26 PM
Something I read - I think it was in this forum, but I am not sure - was how the inhabitants of Hell (or was it the Abyss? Some bad place, anyway) love everyone unconditionally, no matter how ugly they are or how atrocious their behavior. In this view, lawfulness and/or goodness are just ways of being judgmental to those who look or behave differently than you are used to, and these judgmental attitudes can best be protested by open defiance. Now add in a bit of Clive Barker's Hellraiser, wherein it is revealed that to true aesthetes pain is as much to be pursued and cultivated as pleasure. (In the book at least; I've never seen the movie) The result is that no matter how awful the lower planes appear to us, and how terrible the suffering there, to the inhabitants it is all to be celebrated and embraced.

This completely breaks the paradigm of good/evil = unselfish/selfish and law/chaos = rule following/breaking that are common takes on alignment.

Has anything struck you as providing a fresh take on understanding alignment?

That may have been me talking about Hell in Nobilis. It's nice in that the factions/alignments are more or less divorced from moral judgements, and are pretty cool to boot. It's also called out when (or if! you can decide to not agree with anyone!) you choose one that you're free to only buy into only part of the philosophy- you can believe in universal love, but don't have to agree with the corruption.

The fallen angels of Hell believe in unconditional love, and thus love all, especially the foul and the broken, as they have no one else to love them. This corrupts them, as such is the nature of Hell and their love, for Hell is a painful, corrupting place at the base of the Ash, out of the sight of Heaven's beauty. Their counterparts in Heaven hold Beauty as the highest principle, and close Heaven off from Creation until they can make it as beautiful as Heaven; whether they like it or not. They hold Justice high as well, but the justice of Angels on an ugly world is a terrible thing.

The Magisters of the Dark value humanity and the individual and their freedom, to the extent that it allows them to exceed their limits and burn away as Icarus did, destroying themselves in their pride and excess.
The Magisters of the Light value human survival, and care not about the individual; so long as humanity lives on the ends justify any means.
The Wildlords are mad solipsists, cleaving only to the rules of their nature; to them they are not of this world and sanity is but another prison.

The morality of your philosophy and actions isn't prejudged, and two people serving the same faction/alignment can be radically different in how they apply or believe in the faction they serve. Servants of Hell could be some of the nicest people you know or some of the greatest monsters you meet- sometimes both!

falloutimperial
2013-07-26, 06:35 PM
An interesting thing to consider is the viewpoints which can be held by by pretty much any paragon of alignment.

"The world is broken and dangerous. Brigands command respect while the virtuous are punished daily. People don't value each other like they ought to and their governments neglect any potential solution. But we are here. We are the next step, ready to elevate these people to something greater."

I could see a Lawful Good outsider saying this just as much as a Chaotic Evil outsider. The only way for adventurers to tell would probably be whether the thing's name is Germanic.

Cheiromancer
2013-07-26, 08:04 PM
Here's something I wrote some years back. The idea is that most of an alignment's "commandments" will generally describe the behavior with a character of that alignment. I don't think they are all that unusual, but it was fun to reread them again after so long.

LAWFUL GOOD

1. Serve the greater good. Venerate tradition, respect authority, but use your own judgment as well.

2. Your integrity is worth more than reputation, possessions, or life itself. Die rather than compromise your beliefs.

3. The ends do not justify the means: Do not use evil means to achieve a worthy purpose. Do not cooperate in evil actions. Your silence or negligence may be the cooperation needed for evil to flourish.

4. Put yourself at a disadvantage rather than risk performing an evil act. Do not act rashly, but only after due consideration.

5. Choose your companions wisely. You are entrusting them with your honor.

6. Be cautious about giving your word; ensure that it cannot be twisted to evil ends. When you give your word, keep it.

7. If good and evil would both result from an action, the action is permitted only if the evil is genuinely an undesired side effect (not a goal or a means), and is proportionate to the good achieved. Consider carefully what evil might result from an apparently good action, and if there is not a better way.

8. The needy have a claim on you to act on their behalf. The weak have a claim on your strength. Those who are subject to just punishment have a valid claim only if the punishment is excessive.

9. Violence is justified only in self-defense, and as a last resort. The defense of those who cannot defend themselves also counts as self-defense.

10. Use the minimum amount of violence necessary to defend yourself. With opponents that are wholly corrupt, destruction may be the minimum amount of violence required. Offer terms to defeated enemies who are not wholly evil. Accept their surrender and consider them under your protection. Let them go free rather than let them come to harm.

NEUTRAL GOOD

1. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. If anything, put the happiness of others a little ahead of your own.

2. Go the extra mile; do more than you are required to do, and do so cheerfully. Keep alert for the chance to do a good deed.

3. Enjoy life, and help others do the same. Encourage good behavior by setting a good example and praising others.

4. Little things count. Maintain high standards even for small and apparently trivial things. Small courtesies and acts of consideration add up.

5. Rules ensure the stability and harmony of a community, and enable individual members to flourish. Rules which do not fulfill both these purposes are flawed. Go beyond the rules to follow higher ones.

6. There is a little good even in the darkest heart. Never give up on a creature’s redemption.

7. Justice must be tempered with mercy. The integration of the offender into society is the goal of punishment, not the offender’s suffering.

8. Be sure that you are face to face with evil before resorting to force. In case of doubt, you must be certain that you are defending what is right and good.

9. Remember that doing harm to others, even if it is necessary, harms you. Say you are sorry, and try to make up for harm you may have done; pray for the dead, help survivors, do penance.

10. Be generous to those in need. Regard any surplus you may have as belonging to them.

CHAOTIC GOOD

1. Do what you will, if it harms none.

2. Do not indulge in stereotyping; judge individuals as individuals. Many a scoundrel wears a crown.

3. Force may be justified to prevent or remedy injustice. The existence of injustice is authorization enough for you to act.

4. Make personal commitments and follow them. Whether anyone knows about them or appreciates them is irrelevant.

5. You are responsible for your own decisions. If you are convinced that a group decision is wrong, refuse to go along with it.

6. Others are responsible for their decisions. If they make bad ones, the consequences are on their own heads.

7. Do not swear oaths. “Yes” or “No” is sufficient to indicate your agreement.

8. Listen to the viewpoints of others. No-one sees the world in quite the same way, and you may find fresh insights even from someone you thought you knew well.

9. When faced with a threat, it is usually best to leave peacefully or negotiate; but do not hesitate to fight if that is appropriate.

10. Always give an enemy a chance to prove himself a friend; also give a friend the freedom to move on.

LAWFUL NEUTRAL

1. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. There should be no hesitation to sacrifice one or more for the sake of the group. It is irrelevant if you are among the ones sacrificed.

2. Traditional ways are best. If there were a better way, it would have been done that way in the first place.

3. Always follow orders from your superiors. Don’t give a subordinate an order that you would not yourself follow.

4. There is strength (and safety) in numbers. Conform to the group. Your effectiveness is multiplied by being joined with like minded companions; but a group divided against itself is its own worst enemy.

5. When giving instructions, check the manual first; there is usually a traditional solution to any problem. If a traditional solution is not available, seek instructions from a superior. If a superior is not available, seek the consensus of the group. If consensus would be too slow, then follow the advice of someone with expertise in the area. Invent your own path only as a last resort.

6. All things, events and situations are orderly. If it sometimes seems otherwise, it is because some kinds of order are too complex for your mind to perceive. If you are in charge, your first task is simplify and regulate until you achieve full understanding and control. There is no acceptable amount of uncertainty or lack of control; no detail is too small to understand and to regulate.

7. Slow and steady wins the race. Careful preparation and methodical execution is the only sure way to success.

8. If it’s not your job, don’t do it. The order of a group is disrupted by individuals doing what is not assigned to them.

9. Truthfulness, helpfulness and cooperation are default qualities to be displayed with those who serve beside you. Certain circumstances may change these defaults; they are not to be presumed to be active when dealing with uncouth strangers.

10. The discovery and creation of order is your greatest responsibility. Fame, fortune and success are mere trifles in comparison with self-discipline, duty and honor.

TRUE NEUTRAL

1. Don’t do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

2. Enjoy life in moderation, but do not get too attached to what you love. Life is too uncertain to risk strong attachments.

3. Tradition is not always right, but should be departed from only with caution and in times of great need. Keep an open mind about change, but not so open that your brains fall out.

4. Be generous when times are good; you’ll appreciate the generosity of others when times are bad. Go into debt reluctantly, and pay your debts as soon as you can. Avoid having others obligated to you. Be self-reliant, and encourage self-reliance in others.

5. Repay kindness with kindness. Overlook the occasional fault in others, but don’t let yourself get stepped on. Defend yourself if attacked, and insist that criminals be punished in proportion to their crimes.

6. Look out primarily for your family, friends and community. If it costs relatively little to help a stranger in need, do so, but don’t cause hardship for you and yours. It rarely hurts to smile and say hello.

7. The community exists so that the individual can flourish. Individuals have an obligation to support and protect their community; this may involve the sacrifice of certain rights and freedoms. The community has a corresponding obligation to let individuals exercise their own rights and freedoms within reasonable limits.

8. The exercise of an individual’s rights and freedoms are limited to the extent that they do not infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. They are also limited by the customs and norms of the local community.

9. Everything has a place and a time. Know your place, and be prudent about when and if to act. When in doubt, it is usually better not to get involved.

10. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don’t rock the boat. Unless you have a very good reason, don’t meddle in the affairs of those who are mightier than you. Don’t try to change the world; tend to your own affairs and the world will unfold as it should.

CHAOTIC NEUTRAL

1. Embrace your freedom. You are not bound by external laws or forces, nor are you compelled to follow your instinctive impulses. Neither does your past experience condition you; you have complete freedom of choice in any given situation.

2. Don’t be afraid to accept commitments for as long as is necessary. If you or the situation changes, rethink the commitment, and move on when it seems appropriate.

3. Make plans carefully. Don’t consider only the likely outcomes; consider what you would do if something improbable happened. And make sure that your plans have lots of flexibility, so you can change them on the fly.

4. Seek novelty. New experiences, new knowledge, new skills, new friends; the world is full of wonderful things to discover. Don’t be afraid to take chances or make mistakes.

5. Don’t close your mind to new things; don’t knock it until you try it, and try anything once.

6. Encourage others to grow into unique, free individuals. Don’t constrain them with your expectations. Appreciate their quirks and foibles; even unpleasant or ugly things can have their own weird charm.

7. Consider enlivening a situation by inserting an element of randomness. To do this you might have to do something “illegal” or “socially unacceptable,” but it could be fun anyway.

8. A rolling stone gathers no moss. To live is to change a little every day.

9. Don’t judge others. Everyone is right according to their own perspective, and who are you to say they are wrong?

10. There is no good reason for a creature’s freedom to be limited. Liberate the captive and set prisoners free if you have the chance to do so without undue risk to yourself.

LAWFUL EVIL

1. The self is the agent of the will. Discipline and master the self as you would master a deadly weapon or a precision tool. Discipline perfects the self and strengthens the will; it hardens the strong and eliminates the weak.

2. Obey your superiors. The meshing of your will with theirs produces something greater than the sum of the parts. But be watchful for weakness or inconsistency in your superiors- do not let your will be yoked to one that is unworthy of yours, and do not obey someone weaker than yourself.

3. Love your associates as yourself. Strengthen them as you would strengthen and discipline your own body. In their submission to the will is their perfection, and the further strengthening of the will. Purge weakness as ruthlessly and dispassionately as you would purge it in yourself.

4. Beware sentimentality; affection and animosity alike are distractions to the completion of your duties, and weaknesses to be exploited by your enemies. Ruthless constancy of purpose are the sole means of overcoming obstacles.

5. Ensure that your subordinates retain their focus. Use fear and pain to discourage disobedience and incompetence- reward faithful service with power and responsibility. Recruit able individuals, and prune your organization of those who have proven unsatisfactory.

6. Your complete knowledge and control of your environment and subordinates is key to your success. But ensure that the function of your organization is visible only to you and your superiors- your command of what is in your purvey is what is important, not that your organization be so rigid or predictable that it is vulnerable to the ambition of others.

7. Be truthful and reliable, and keep promises and commitments scrupulously. Your thoughts, words and actions must always be in harmony with reality and with your own history. You are not, however, responsible for any misunderstanding your words or actions; if someone is misled or comes to harm because of that person’s mistake, the fault is entirely theirs.

8. Be courteous and polite; it is a measure of your self control. Give praise where it is due, and remember that imitation is the sincerest form of praise; strength and cunning is no less real for being modeled on the strength and cunning of another.

9. Appear sensitive to the needs and wants of others. If they are weaker, then knowing their weaknesses increases your own control over them, and the appearance of gentleness may disarm the unperceptive. If they are stronger, then your own will and ambition may be advanced by being harnessed to theirs.

10. Be patient; time unravels the schemes of the inconstant. Be strategically and tactically flexible; rigidity is not strength, and a disciplined mind and organization are responsive to changing situations.

NEUTRAL EVIL

1. The first rule is to look out for number one. Anyone who doesn’t see this is a fool, and deserves to be taken advantage of. Others act on this rule, but pretend to be acting for a “higher cause”. Keep an eye on them; they probably lie about other things too. Finally, some people put their own interests first and are honest about it. You can respect such people, and should think twice about messing with them.

2. Playing by the rules is the surest way to fail. If the system is stacked against you, the only sensible thing is to try to even the odds.

3. Achieving your goals will also require sacrifice and hard work. No one will appreciate that you gave up family and friends to achieve your goals, but that’s OK; your progress to your goal makes it all worthwhile.

4. Deception is a necessary tactic for survival. Many will not cooperate with you if they know what your goals are. Conceal your goals and methods and you will have an easier time of things.

5. Earn a good reputation. Make people see that it is in their best interests to stay on your good side, and that it is a bad idea to get you angry. Don’t overdo it on the “nice guy” bit; people will think you are weak and will try to walk all over you. But don’t overdo it on the death and destruction side either, or people won’t see any alternative to uniting against you. Just make it clear that your friends get along fine, and that your enemies are in for a world of hurt.

6. Study the “dark side” of human emotions. Fear motivates more people than hope, and hatred motivates more people than compassion. More people are walking the path of greed, ambition or revenge than you might think. As a student of human nature you will gain more insight if you recognize these basic facts. For example, people who are “doing good” are either acting in fear of someone or something more powerful than they are, or they are greedily seeking a reward for their services.

7. You can’t do everything yourself; a lot of work has to be delegated to properly motivated subordinates, or get done by people who are manipulated into doing something. Still, if something has to be done right, it will sometimes have to be done by you.

8. People generally don’t say what they believe; they say what they want you to believe. Discard the quaint conceptions of “truth” and “falsity” when they conflict with this rule.

9. Might makes right. If you want to be believed, make a statement of fact backed up by a threat of force (implied or explicit). You’ll be surprised how quickly people will agree with you. If you want to claim property rights, have a credible threat against those who do not respect your claim on the property. Established “facts” and “rights” are based on this principle.

10. Laws, traditions and prejudices are two edged swords- sometimes they protect the worthy from the envious, and other times they help the undeserving keep their ill-gotten gains. Defend law and tradition if it helps you protect what is yours; oppose them if they keep power and property in the hands of those who don’t deserve it.

CHAOTIC EVIL

1. First of all, do no harm. Harm is whatever prevents YOU from reaching YOUR destiny.

2. To discover your destiny, explore your hungers, desires and obsessions. These are the only true guides to action. When they are sated, develop new ones.

3. Seek the good. Remember: wanting something makes it good. Avoid the evil; evil is whatever hurts or hinders you.

4. Tearing someone down is the same as building yourself up, only easier. Taking away someone else's good is better than getting something similar for yourself, as you end up twice as far ahead.

5. Preserve your sense of self. Shun empathy and compassion, two ways of losing the self. Keep yourself free. Avoid generosity and cooperation; they are voluntary forms of self enslavement. Strive to overcome the five great weaknesses: conscience, responsibility, regret, guilt and shame.

6. The reason why others exist is so that you can use them to achieve your destiny. Threats and bribes are the means whereby you use them.

7. You have no equals- you have inferiors, who exist to further your goals, and superiors, whose strength you respect and strive to imitate.

8. Anyone who harms you is an enemy. Remember- if they thwart your desires, they are doing you harm. Do them harm first.

9. If someone can hurt you, but you can’t hurt them, you should do what they tell you to do. Especially if this is something you like doing anyway.

10. A "friend" is someone of equal power who wants to use you for their own goals. Go along with them if you like, but make sure you use them too.

Seharvepernfan
2013-07-27, 07:36 AM
Here's something I wrote some years back. The idea is that most of an alignment's "commandments" will generally describe the behavior with a character of that alignment. I don't think they are all that unusual, but it was fun to reread them again after so long.


I read about 4 of these, and wow, these are really good. I am going to use these. Kudos, good sir!

Sergeantbrother
2013-07-27, 09:17 AM
snip


snip

Those ideas remind me of some thoughts I was having regarding the psychology of succubi. I was considering two different options of how succubi feel about their nature and what they do.

One of the two ideas is that succubi are consumed with intense feelings of lust for humans, and not just lust but passion and romantic feelings, even love. When the succubus approaches a mortal, she does so out of her intense need to love and be loved. She does what she can to please her mortal lover, though her presense is inherently corrupting and so her mortal lover becomes more evil and twisted as his or her desires are continually met and exceeded. Eventually the mortal becomes totally debuacued and evil, and the succubus being madly in love, does what she can to fulfill her lover's evil wants and desires. The two become partners in crime, so to speak. Eventually the mortal dies and the succubus grows in power for having corrupted a mortal soul - though she is filled with grief for her lost love until she can find the soul of her lover in the Abyss or finds another mortal lover to win her heart.

Yora
2013-07-27, 09:46 AM
I really like Allegiance. It's a good guideline for PCs to make descisions when they are unsure, without making any value judgements about right or wrong.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-07-27, 10:37 AM
Burning Wheel has Beliefs, which are basically "build your own alignment". It also leverages them in a way that you get rewarded for playing in line with them or countermanding a Belief because of a decision you have to make.

Pendragon has various Virtues, which serve as the basis for associated "reaction rolls" but also flesh a knight out into a spectrum between five paired sets of character traits.

Geostationary
2013-07-27, 10:42 PM
One of the two ideas is that succubi are consumed with intense feelings of lust for humans, and not just lust but passion and romantic feelings, even love. When the succubus approaches a mortal, she does so out of her intense need to love and be loved. She does what she can to please her mortal lover, though her presense is inherently corrupting and so her mortal lover becomes more evil and twisted as his or her desires are continually met and exceeded. Eventually the mortal becomes totally debuacued and evil, and the succubus being madly in love, does what she can to fulfill her lover's evil wants and desires. The two become partners in crime, so to speak. Eventually the mortal dies and the succubus grows in power for having corrupted a mortal soul - though she is filled with grief for her lost love until she can find the soul of her lover in the Abyss or finds another mortal lover to win her heart.

That's a pretty cool approach! It also creates an interesting angle where the succubus can play a more or less innocent party in the affair- she's only doing what's best for her lover! It's not her fault that her presence is inherently corrupting, and besides, what's really wrong about doing things that make you happy? The grief really sucks after they die, but then you find a new lover and things will be better and then you forget about the last one because this? This love is real and nothing else matters in the face of that. It becomes a vicious cycle of love and corruption.

Jay R
2013-07-27, 11:51 PM
I was playing original D&D, with the simple alignmment system (Chaotic meant Evil; Lawful meant Good) when AD&D came out. I read the descriptions of the nine alignments in the original books, which read liek philosophical tretises.

I concluded that unless my character had a Wisdom of 16+ and an intelligence of 18+, then he was incapable of even understanding any of the alignments, much less having one.

Arkhosia
2013-07-28, 12:08 AM
There's a good snippet in the Snippets 2 thread where a woman converts a paladin to Asmodeus' side called There is no Order Without Punishment
Link:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10386581&postcount=340
Basically she converts the paladin by stating Asmodeus is good because he punishes evildoers when they die, unlike the angels and gods of celestia.

VeliciaL
2013-07-28, 12:19 AM
Awesomeness

Can I save this? That's pretty awesome stuff. :smallbiggrin:

Cheiromancer
2013-07-28, 10:25 AM
I concluded that unless my character had a Wisdom of 16+ and an intelligence of 18+, then he was incapable of even understanding any of the alignments, much less having one.

Well, a rock obeys the laws of physics without understanding them. A character might do the same with complicated alignment guidelines. But I see your point.

I enjoy thinking about philosophy and religion, and that is probably why I had so much fun writing these alignment guidelines. I doubt that my own ability scores are quite so exceptional, though. Maybe I don't understand alignment as well I think I do?


Can I save this? That's pretty awesome stuff. :smallbiggrin:

Of course. I would be honored if you did so. :)

Jay R
2013-07-28, 11:51 AM
Well, a rock obeys the laws of physics without understanding them. A character might do the same with complicated alignment guidelines. But I see your point.

The problem is that they were written in terms of explicit conscious motivation. If the description of gravity were that bodies in motion desires, to move towards larger bodies, and therefore chose to curve their paths to meet them, then we would all agree that this isn't what a falling rock is doing.


I enjoy thinking about philosophy and religion, and that is probably why I had so much fun writing these alignment guidelines. I doubt that my own ability scores are quite so exceptional, though. Maybe I don't understand alignment as well I think I do?
No, that merely means that you don't think about them in Gygax's absurdly complicated descriptions of them. For example:


True Neutral: The "true" neutral looks upon all other alignments as facets of the system of things. Thus, each aspect - evil and good, chaos and law -- of things must be retained in balance to maintain the status quo: for things as they are cannot be improved upon except temporarily, and even then but superficially. Nature will prevail and keep things as they were meant to be, provided the "wheel" surrounding the hub of nature does not become unbalanced due to the work of unnatural forces - such as human and other intelligent creatures interfering with what is meant to be.

This, we were told, was the alignment of a ravening wolf.

Phooey.

Blightedmarsh
2013-07-28, 01:06 PM
There is a ballance; for every paragon of good their is a champion of evil. You cannot shift the universal balance; only alter it on a local scale.

The best you can possibly achieve is to alter the way that an alinement is expressed locally. So someone might dedicate themselves to evil in order to change what the forces of evil believe or behave in a given region.

Cheiromancer
2013-07-28, 01:11 PM
The problem is that they were written in terms of explicit conscious motivation.

Right. I see your point.


Thus, each aspect - evil and good, chaos and law -- of things must be retained in balance to maintain the status quo: for things as they are cannot be improved upon except temporarily, and even then but superficially.

I remember one of my players once took this to mean that his wizard character should switch sides while the party fought a lich. To balance earlier activity against said lich. :smallconfused:

Winds
2013-07-28, 01:20 PM
I think one important distinction, one I use when defining a character's alignment/personality, is levels. That is, how they act on a personal, organizational or societal level. So I might have a True Neutral character who doesn't really do or care about good or evil on a personal level, but always keeps his word when given and stands by whoever he views as a comrade (or who views him as such, to a lesser degree). This means he may act more Lawful Good to the party, but still be TN. This is important: The biggest breakdown in alignment rules is people expect that to mean that's how a character should act all the time.


Short form, my take: Remember that your character, like a real person, will seem to fit a different alignment in some situations. Know what those situations are, and why it changes how they act.

Jay R
2013-07-28, 05:44 PM
I play the person. Let the DM worry about the alignment.

Arkhosia
2013-07-28, 11:07 PM
I always liked the idea of gods having great traits and fatal flaws.
For example, in 4e, I would do this:
•Corellion will get very angry at anyone who destroys even the most vile books and art.
•Erathis supports tyrants, saying that they help keep order to cities.

•Melora demands cities to be torn down and slayers of dragons to be punished for killing nature.

• Moradin encourages all creations, including flesh golems and reanimation used to create undead.

• Kord orders his followers to persecute those who are physically weak

•Balamut commands anyone who breaks a law to be severely punished.

• Raven queen is fine as-is

•Asmodeus punishes people harshly to keep order

•Tiamat wishes her followers to spend what little they do for good causes

• Bane tells his followers to build mighty, good empires

VeliciaL
2013-07-29, 01:25 AM
Of course. I would be honored if you did so. :)

Thanks!

I really love how you gave each alignment a believable set of motivations. Especially the evil alignments, instead of just being evil for evil's sake. You can understand them in a way, which is always one of the hallmarks to a good villain.