3.5 gestalt help: Green star adept

[Dysjong]

Hello to you Giant playground!

First of all, it's a plessure to see what people can come up with, regarding builds and how the rules works and so on....enough with the kind words!

I have been asked to join a friend for a high level gestalt group, which involves planar traveling and fighting lots of annoying things. Im not used to high lvl games combined with high lvl magic, plus it's gestalt....lots of options to choice from.

Anyone, sinds the campaigne is high lvl, i thought about trying a wizard of a sort and by chance i found the green star adept. By first glance it doesn't look that it would be a good class but sinds it's gestalt, i came to the conclusion that it should be able to go full out caster while stil being a living construct.

What i know, is that we are going to be lvl 20 with the gear for a lvl 20 char and we have to be good aligned.

My idea is to make a arcane caster who has been transformed into a green star adept. He is going to take another prestige class after this, one that is called "force weaver" (i can't remember where my friend found this one but i can remember that it requires spell focus evocation feat). On the other side, i was considering some few fighter lvls, so i can reach the +4 ab green star adept needs and some factotum lvls, im a big fan of rogue and a rogue mage is just my kind of taste. To add more for this concept, sinds he is a living contruct, he is going to craft some golems and possible some items along the way, perhaps a planer traveling ship!!

To give you an idea, my friend is playing a fey wizard with 100 int....yeah... i know it's sick but im stil game for it, hence the idea about this green star adept.

Now...how to make this....living construct rogue mage with a knack for crafting stuff, that knows lot of stuff about the force.

thank you for your time.

[Psyren]

You don't actually become a living construct with GSA; true living constructs actually get to keep their Con score. You meanwhile are paying every level (and even fighting other GSAs, according to the fluff) jut to lose yours, In addition to losing a ton of hp as a result, you also lose your ability to be magically healed, and you lose your ability to survive into negative hp.

If you truly want your wizard to become a living construct, take a look at Renegade Mastermaker from Magic of Eberron.

[Dysjong]

but as a construct, i turn all my HD into D10 if im not mistaken. True that i can't be healed like a normal person, but unlike other contructs, i can stil be resurrected and then there is also repair dmg spells, which isn that a high lvl spell slot.

the reason i choiced a green star adept, was i were thinking about, how in gods name, would a mortal be able to survive the planes. Sure there is magic and items for it but they can be either dispel, taken from me or destroyed. As a construct, i have no need for food, sleep, or air and i just really like the idea about a construct that is able to cast spells and fleeing like a rogue and crafting awesome items like a dwarf (or gnome, if you like them *spit*)

I will take a look on this...renegade mastermaker

[iDesu]

but as a construct, i turn all my HD into D10 if im not mistaken.

That's only adds, on average, around 3hp per level. If you have 16 or more CON, which is really easy with items, you're better off being a meat popsicle.

[Dysjong]

yeah but is it not better, then the wizards d4 plus con? plus i get 20+ hp for a medium size construct.

another question: according to the rules, a construct gains some bonus HP based on it's size. What happens if a green star adept, who is medium size and by spells incresses his size to large for making it easy, would that change his bonus hp from +20 to +30 aslong as the spell is in work? the matriale is stil incressed in size and mass, so im just confused about this.

[Fouredged Sword]

You would gain HP, and loose them at the end of the effect, much like temporary con increases.

IF you do this, tank your con or start as an elf for Fairy Mystery Initiate for Int to HP (and you keep that as a construct). Grey elf seems the best base.

Don't forget to alternate wizard on the other side of the gestalt to maintain your caster level.

[Dysjong]

Thank you for the answer :D ...im just starting to imagin a colossal green star adept, that is throwing off spells here and there :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Im gonna look into this fairy mystery initiate and see what it is.

I was planing to take some wizard lvls on the other side, whenever the green star adept wouldnt incresse my caster lvl and factotum when it would, 5 wizard lvls on the other side if my head is correct.

[Rebel7284]

Here is a 25th level build.

Warforged Wizard 5/Green Star Adept 10/Regenerade Mastermaker 10
//
Combination of Wizard 7/Factotum 11/Warblade 7

Cast Incarnate Construct 3 times to get -6LA and roll your Con score. Get re-rolls to get a nice one. :)

Then take +6LA of templates for free.

You end up with:
- Free templates
- Extra actions
- Can overcome any spell resistance
- High level maneuvers (initiator level 16)

[Dysjong]

rebel7284 - ....what bunny did you just take up from that hat of yours?! now im feeling noobish:smalleek::smallfrown:

guess i REALLY need to read lots of books and spells..... and i thought a char with 100 int were sick...

[Vaz]

Here is a 25th level build.

Warforged Wizard 5/Green Star Adept 10/Regenerade Mastermaker 10
//
Combination of Wizard 7/Factotum 11/Warblade 7

Cast Incarnate Construct 3 times to get -6LA and roll your Con score. Get re-rolls to get a nice one. :)

Then take +6LA of templates for free.

You end up with:
- Free templates
- Extra actions
- Can overcome any spell resistance
- High level maneuvers (initiator level 16)

Doesn't work like that, sorry.

[Big Fau]

The other issue with Green Star Adept is the lost spell levels. Once you attain GSA 10, your type changes and you are no longer affected by the spell Enlarge Person (since it only works on Humanoids). The next spell that can give you a Size increase is either Polymorph (there aren't many Colossal-sized Constructs with less than 20HD, and there probably aren't that many Huge-sized ones aside from the Warforged Titan) or Enlarge (a 5th level spell).

Since you are starting at 20th level (WBL and all) you can easily obtain a Con score of 24-32 (even as high as 36), which means your HP is actually going to be better with just Wizard HD and a Con score (20d4 averages out to 4+47+20*Con modifier, assuming a Con of 24 your HP at 20th level would be somewhere around 190). While the d10 HD and Construct bonus HP looks impressive, it starts to lose value when your Con modifier hits +3-+5. Once your Con modifier exceeds +5, you are golden as far as HP goes.

Never mind that there are far better spells out there (take a look at Body of War from the Spell Compendium) than what you'd be stuck with thanks to your lost levels (GSA doesn't progress spellcasting beyond Caster Level). If hit-dice really matters that much to you, Abjurant Champion and Eldritch Knight both have better HD and progress spellcasting.


You are at the cusp of Epic-level play, missing out on 9th level spells as a Wizard means you are going to lose the war once you hit 21st (Epic-spells are all kinds of broken).

Edit: Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 8. You end up with 9th level spells, 17 BAB, and decent HP for being a Gish.

Double-edit: Wait, Gestalt? Warblade 20//Wizard 5/Master Specialist 10/Archmage 5. Or just go Factotum 20//Wizard 20 and win at everything forever.

[Rebel7284]

rebel7284 - ....what bunny did you just take up from that hat of yours?! now im feeling noobish:smalleek::smallfrown:

guess i REALLY need to read lots of books and spells..... and i thought a char with 100 int were sick...

100 Int is pretty nice. :)

Let me go over it while siting my sources and reasoning.

Green Star Adept is a VERY poor prestige class, and you have to jump through many hoops to make it work. Here I am taking advantage of the http://dndtools.eu/spells/savage-species--47/incarnate-construct--3233/ Incarnate Construct spell and the associated template to undo turning into a construct while getting -2LA. Thus it turns what is usually a drawback into an advantage.

In gestalt, Factotums from Dungeonscape work very well with a wizard because they are very Int focused and very flexible. Every encounter they get a pool of "inspiration" points which they can use to add their intelligence to Attack/Damage/Saves/Armor Class/Str and Dex checks (note: Initiative is defined in the rules as a Dex check) and at 8th level spend it to get Extra Standard Actions which is amazing! At level 11 they can also spend an inspiration point to overcome any Spell Resistance, which is nice. You may need to ask how it works with Infinite Spell Resistance, such as a golem's. Check out Font of Inspiration feat in an online article. :)

Warblades from Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords get martial maneuvers which are similar to spells, but more fighting oriented. They work nicely in gestalt with wizard due to having a d12 HD and good Fort save, and some maneuvers being very useful. For example, there are 3 that replace saves by concentration checks. It's much easier to get a very high concentration check than save boosts. Also, White Raven Tactics and certain readings of Iron Heart Surge are quite nice. Note that for initiator classes such as warblade, any class that is NOT an initiator still counts as HALF a level in their initiator progression.

Extra levels of wizard are there to plug in the many holes in casting progression of course.


Doesn't work like that, sorry.

You're going to have to be clearer than that. :) What doesn't work? Looking at the negative LA retroactively? I don't think the rules cover it one way or the other, but of course there is the alternative of starting with the templates and then removing the LA 2 at a time.

[Dysjong]

rebel7284 - I already know of the tome of battle (got a 8th lvl crusader gestalt) but i wanted to focus more of the arcane caster and blend it with some rogue(factotum in this case) sinds it's something familiar to me, when im facing players who knows how to create a powerhouse.

Big fau - Yeah i can see what you mean about the hp in this case :/ but stil, that green star adept really pulls me into it it. Sure it won't grant me imunites to mind effect but then i get lots of other goodies a construct get, which saves me some spells that i can spend on something else and it also saves me items, that can used for other effects aswell and in the end, i stil can be resurrected.

I might need to see how to incresse my HP with another stat then (im looking at you Fairy Mystery Initiate!).

gonna work on it one of these days...just need to find a computer also...*krogan accent* stupid machine!

[Svata]

Put some Cleric on the other side, and 10 levels of WitW to get dry lich and get CHA to hp.

[Big Fau]

rebel7284 - I already know of the tome of battle (got a 8th lvl crusader gestalt) but i wanted to focus more of the arcane caster and blend it with some rogue(factotum in this case) sinds it's something familiar to me, when im facing players who knows how to create a powerhouse.

Big fau - Yeah i can see what you mean about the hp in this case :/ but stil, that green star adept really pulls me into it it. Sure it won't grant me imunites to mind effect but then i get lots of other goodies a construct get, which saves me some spells that i can spend on something else and it also saves me items, that can used for other effects aswell and in the end, i stil can be resurrected.

I might need to see how to incresse my HP with another stat then (im looking at you Fairy Mystery Initiate!).

gonna work on it one of these days...just need to find a computer also...*krogan accent* stupid machine!

Since you are Gestalt, Warforged Juggernaut is basically Green Star Adept without the failure (and without the spellcasting prerequisites, and very easy entry). While not good for a Wizard (ASF 50% is terrible), it makes for a great Cleric gestalt (and Clerics are an excellent class for casting).

[Dysjong]

Big fau - yeah, that might sound like an idea, plus i would cover the divine spells and healing for the epicness....but again...arcane casters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTfVTxvchi8

a clip from the movie called "Your highness" and my simple reason for making an arcane caster :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

i will try and make something up and post it, then you can maybe help me better out.

[iDesu]

What do you want from arcane casters? Is it an actual class you want, or is it the spell list? If it's the spell list then Archivist would solve the problem easily enough.

[Dysjong]

iDesu - i wanna play with some force spells. As i posted earlier, after taking the green star adept, i was going to take this other prestige class, called force weaver...i just need to find the right book, that my friend showed to me...trust me, it was a fun class, that could do lots of things with force, ending up with force imunity and force substitutionm, plus add dmg on every force spell, much more then an argant savant (which i was also were looking at). And i like the way wizards are, added with some factotum lvls and i have myself a rogue mage of gren star metal. Could also add one lvl of shadowdancer for hide in plain sight, then find a spot where a statue could stay, using hide and act like a statue.....suddenly, the word gargoyle gets a new meaning...

[Fouredged Sword]

If you want to play with force effects, and are starting at high level, consider the following.

Warforged
Warforged
Fighter 4 / Warforged Charger 5 / Factotum 8 / wizard 3
Wizard 4 / Spellsword 10 / wizard 6

Ok, you get enough ASF removal to cast in that adimantine plate, enough wizard to get 9th level spells, and factotum extra standard actions, and construct immunity to everything without loosing Con.

[Spuddles]

Real wizards don't get their HP from con- they're either necropolitans using tricks, or picked up thr Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat.

FMI gets you int instead of con for HP. Pretty wicked.

[Kane0]

Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.

[Psyren]

FMI gets you int instead of con for HP. Pretty wicked.

It's also dragon magazine, which lots of DMs reflexively ban - though it sounds like this is a high power campaign so sources should be permissive.

[Dysjong]

Hello peope of this most fantastic forum!

It has ben some time i have posted anything at all. Thank you for all of the advices you gaved me, it helped out :D

I have been busy with other things over months but my idea about this green star adept is stil alive and now i have most of his stats rdy.

Here he is:

Alundra, Gray elf, Human subtype, Construct

Str: 20 (16, -2 gray elf, +6 G.S.A)
Dex: 16 (17, +2 gray elf, -3 G.S.A)
Con: - (15, -2 gray elf, con removed G.S.A)
Int: 30 (18, +2 ray elf, +5 stat incresment, +5 tome of intelligence)
Wis: 16
Cha: 15

Factotum 1/Wizard 1
Factotum 2/Wizard 2
Factotum 3/Wizard 3
Factotum 4/Wizard 4
Factotum 5/Wizard 5
Factotum 6/Force weaver 1
Wizard 6 /G.S.A 1
Factotum 7/G.S.A 2
Wizard 7/G.S.A 3
Factotum 8/G.S.A 4
Wizard 8/G.S.A 5
Factotum 9/G.S.A 6
Wizard 9/G.S.A 7
Factotum 10/G.S.A 8
Wizard 10/G.S.A 9
Factotum 11/G.S.A 10
Factotum 12/Force weaver 2
Factotum 13/Force weaver 3
Factotum 14/Force weaver 4
Factotum 15/Force weaver 5
Factotum 16/Arch mage 1

HD: D8 all the way (Factotum and G.S.A)
D8 rolls: 8-8-4-5-7-1-7-8-7-7-2-5-6-7-7-4-6-6-7-4-2
Hit points: 348 (118 + int modifer F.M.I + 20 medium construct G.S.A)
B.A.B: +19/+14/+9
Fort: +9
Ref: +14
Will: +19

Skillpoints: 341 (16 lvls factotum with int modifer = 256, 5 lvls in different classes that gives 2+int skill = 60, Nymph's kiss = 21, Human heritage = 4)

Flaw: Vulnerable (-1ac)
Lvl 1: Human heritage (Human subtype, +4 skill point, Flaw)
Lvl 1: Able learner
Lvl 3: Nymph’s kiss
Lvl 5: Spell focus (Evocation)(wizard bonus feat)
Lvl 6: Combat casting
Lvl 9: Craft wonderous items
Lvl 12: Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Passion)
Lvl 15: Skill focus (spellcraft)
Lvl 15: Spellbook mastery (Wizard bonus feat)
Lvl: 18: Spell focus (Conjuration)
Lvl 21: Forge rings

I was surprised by the actually numbers when i finally put him down on paper.
for your own information: We are allowed to use 3rd party publisher, aslong as the GM will agree with it.
Regarding the stats i rolled: We use 4d6, all 1 and 2 are rerolled and we can mke as many rows as we want to, just aslong we have something to prove it (Took me about 20 tries, Baldur's gate anyone? :P)

He is by far, not optimized to his full potential, sinds i also wanted some room to some fluff about this guy.

Spellbook mastery feat: http://www.scribd.com/doc/31056616/Ultimate-Feats

Force weaver: http://www.freegamemanuals.com/pdfrpg/TSRDungeons&Dragons3.5Legends&LairsPathOfMagic.pdf

All i need to do now, is to place his skill points and give him items. Based upon the info my friend gaved me, the current party is lvl 22. I have been allowed to get the same gear as lvl 22, despite me being lvl 21. Reason is that i am going to use lots of gold and XP for my crafting.
Skillpoints is a different matter and kinda weird. From what i have been tolded, i have to calculate my skill points out based upon the current lvls he is but before items. Yeah i know it's weird but GM's rule and he does it himself, so i won't complain.

What i need help with: I would like to learn the crafting system. While some of it looks easy enough, it really can be weird sometimes (Try calculate boots of teleportation and helm of teleportation and you might see my point)
Any suggestions regarding how to place my skill points out and skill tricks (I am gonna go for conceal spell skill trick) are appreciatede. I do know that i wana give him some perform (dance) (Gomez from Adams family :P) and different professions, as a way to reflect that he has learned alot of things over the years and he is going to have some craft skills (Gem cutting, stonemasonry and sculpting). He is technical alive but sinds he can't have the plessures of thse who is made of flesh, he has to stay conected to his mortality by either crafting, perform or other mundane things. Life is precise and shouldnt be thrown away just like that.

[CIDE]

Friends don't let friends do Starmetal.


Can I sig this...?

[Kane0]

Can I sig this...?
By all means!