Challenging Undead?

[Chester]

Hello all,

So, I'm new to this forum and new to DMing 3.5--I've taken over for our group on Roll20. We're a third level party, and I'm hoping to introduce undead to the campaign. The only problem is that our party consists of a cleric and a dread necromancer (my character), both with some strong turning / rebuke capabilities.

Basically, I'm concerned that between the two of us messing with the undead, it won't present enough of a challenge.

Can anyone either recommend some bolstering techniques or some more challenging undead creatures for this third level party? (Other characters include a barbarian and a bard/rogue).

[Silva Stormrage]

First read up on how rebuke and turn undead work.

Undead tend to have a LOT of HD for their cr and unless they focus on turning or rebuking they shouldn't be that effective with it.

I would suggest zombies if you wish to reduce the effectiveness of turn and rebuke undead. A 10 HD zombie is cr 3 and they are unable to physically turn it. Send a couple 6 HD zombies (CR 2). You could awaken them if you wish to make them intelligent.

Ghouls also are pretty hard to turn as they have effectively 4 HD and are cr 1.

Make the undead animated by a necromancer with destructive retribution for more fun. It is in Libris Mortis and causes the undead to explode for 1d6 damage/2 HD. This damage heals undead so it can cause fodder zombies to pose a serious threat.

[JaronK]

Honestly, characters like that SHOULD be strong against undead. Why not get the chance to shine once in a while? Then throw constructs in to make for harder fights.

JaronK

[Phelix-Mu]

Honestly, characters like that SHOULD be strong against undead. Why not get the chance to shine once in a while? Then throw constructs in to make for harder fights.

JaronK

Consider mixing in flesh golems that look a lot like zombies that have like 1/3 to 1/2 the normal hp, depending on what you think it will take to almost murder your par...I mean, challenge your party.:smallwink: Dread guards (Monster Manual 2...be sure to look up the MM2 3.5 update for changes to stat), are also a nice weak construct with undead-ish appearance. Combine it with some skeletal warriors sporting ruined armour and weapons, and voila! A surprise fit for...well, fit for a fun encounter.

[Chester]

I would suggest zombies if you wish to reduce the effectiveness of turn and rebuke undead.

Good idea . . . there's enough of a variety that an easy turn can get the party pumped . . . then throw some Ogre Zombies their way! :smallamused:


Honestly, characters like that SHOULD be strong against undead. Why not get the chance to shine once in a while? Then throw constructs in to make for harder fights.

True, but on that note, I'm not going to send a squad of goblins after the party's Barbarian because it becomes boring die-rolling. Characters can shine while being challenged, and that's the route I'm trying to take. :smallsmile:


depending on what you think it will take to almost murder your par...I mean, challenge your party.:smallwink:

I liked some of your suggestions . . . the key is that I want to keep the fear of death in the players to make the game interesting. :smallwink:

Thanks all for the suggestions!

[Zanos]

Evil clerics can bolster nearby undead so they can resist turning/rebuking checks.

[Splendor]

Animate Object: Dead body - Nope your turning seems to have no effect.

Who made the Undead? If they had these feat, the undead are a bit harder:
Corpsecrafter: Undead gain +4 Str and +2 hp per Hit Die
Bolster Resistance: Undead gain +4 turn resistance

A Ghoul created by someone with these feats would have +6 turn resistance, a 17 Str (+4 hit d6+3) and 17 hp for a CR 1.
Want more? Make it 3HD (25hp) and give it ability focus (paralysis) DC now 14. I'm not sure if its still a CR 1 at 3HD or not.

[Silva Stormrage]

Animate Object: Dead body - Nope your turning seems to have no effect.

Who made the Undead? If they had these feat, the undead are a bit harder:
Corpsecrafter: Undead gain +4 Str and +2 hp per Hit Die
Bolster Resistance: Undead gain +4 turn resistance

A Ghoul created by someone with these feats would have +6 turn resistance, a 17 Str (+4 hit d6+3) and 17 hp for a CR 1.
Want more? Make it 3HD (25hp) and give it ability focus (paralysis) DC now 14. I'm not sure if its still a CR 1 at 3HD or not.

I would probably increase the CR for the corpse crafter bonuses, undead do require 4 extra HD to increase by 1 CR though so a 3 HD ghoul is indeed cr 1.

[TuggyNE]

Animate Object: Dead body - Nope your turning seems to have no effect.

That's evil. :smalleek:

[Thurbane]

One of my old stat blocks, pretty hard to turn for it's CR:


Ghaele Zombie

Medium Undead (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 20d12+3 (133 hp)
Initiative: + 0
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares; can’t run)
Armor Class: 26 (+16 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 26
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+18
Attack: Greatsword +18 melee (2d6+12/19-20) or slam +18 melee (1d6+12)
Full Attack: Greatsword +18 melee (2d6+12/19-20) or slam +18 melee (1d6+12)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Single actions only, damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., undead traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +12
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: Toughness
Environment: Any
Organization: Any
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: None
Level Adjustment: —