[Scion] Some help in keeping things challenging?

[Icalasari]

So far, the first two sessions have been a success. It's been a little less serious (one of the players basically got a ton of successes on manipulation+appearance+presence for intimidation, so I had it reflected by essentially melting a nearby statue) in order to remain fun as I learn the system myself

Currently I'm trying to ease in the battle system as I have a decent grasp on it myself after they had a few battles (still ignoring things like the turn wheel though. Some of the wording is just... Ugh. I just have them roll dexterity to decide turn order and ignore movement unless they are covering larger distances). Any suggestions? So far I have made a character that is two legend higher than them, gave it 480 exp (about how much they'd need to go from legend 2 to legend 7 multiplied by four) and stated them out, although I didn't give them all the epic knacks they could get. This guy is basically a scion hunter, so as their legend gets higher, he'll get more and more determined to kill them

The story line involves dimensional barriers slowly breaking down, causing new pantheons to leak through, monsters like The Rake, Slenderman, a Charmander, etc. to start popping up, and so on

[Longes]

two legend higher than them

Imminent TPK detected.

[Icalasari]

Imminent TPK detected.

They've been getting lucky and the guy has been netting low rolls

Which is good as if he got even one hit in, well, getting hit in the face with a 7 strength and 7 epic strength would hurt. Basically, his strength and stamina are high, making him pretty untouchable, but his dexterity is pretty abysmal. So they are only really ****ed if they actually choose to fight the guy instead of run for their lives

EDIT: I'll include the stats of the guy

The Scion Hunter
Legend: 7
Will: 8
Exp: 480 - 479 = 1
Soak:
-22 bashing
-19 lethal
-6 aggravated
Has 17 non penalty health
0 -1 -1 -2 -2 -4 incap




Difficulty: 4



Attributes

Perception 5
Intelligence 4
-Epic 3 (4 Successes)
Wits 4

Strength 7
-Epic 7 (22 successes. 625 lift. 22 yards leap. 5000 times throwing range)
Dexterity 6 (6 yards)
Stamina 6
-Epic 6 (16 successes. 16 bonus bashing and lethal soak. 16 additional health. 16 weeks without food or sleep, 8 without water. Hold breath 1000 times longer than normal)

Charisma 1
Manipulation 7
Appearance 7
-Epic 6 (16 successes. 7 free presence rerolls per scene)



Academics 1
Animal Ken 6
Art ()
Athletics 5
Awareness 5
Brawl 3
Command 5
Control
Craft ()
Empathy
Fortitude 3
Integrity 1
Investigation 2
Larceny
Marksmanship 1
Medicine 1
Melee 7
Occult 2
Politics
Presence 6
Science
Stealth
Survival 6
Thrown



Virtues

Conviction 2
Courage 1
Endurance 2
Vengeance 0



Birth right

Necklace of Fauna **
-A two boon necklace, it allows the wearer to communicate with animals and also adopt their abilities. It is a golden lion's claw on a string of seemingly indestrucable metal (9 d9 to break the string)

Kirin *****
-This one was less a gift and more him beating the crap out of a Japanese god until they gave it to him...

Null Ring ***
-A Ring that allows the wearer to spend 1 legend and 1 willpower. He then rolls Presence + Manipulation (No auto successes) as does his target. For a number of turns equal to the number of successes he gets over his target (Wit + Legend, no auto successes), they have their epic attributes and boons disabled, and auto successes are halved. May be used once per scene

Short Sword
-A short sword. Not special in any way
Machete
Acc +1
Dmg +3L
Def -1



Boons

-Animal Communication *
(Intelligence + Animal Ken. Can talk with animals)

-Animal Aspect ***
(Stamina + Animal Ken. 1 Legend. Meditate for one action. You gain bonus die based on which animal you meditate on. Lasts for one action per Legend spent up front)



Epics

-Holy Bound
(Double Jump Distance)

-Hurl to the Horizon
(16 x throw distance)

-Uplifting Might
(4000 lbs lift)

-Inner Furnace
(Eats anything organic)

-Self-Healing
(1 Legend to heal 1 point of bashing or lethal)

-Solipsistic Well-Being
(1 Legend + 1 Will to block the effects of an attack they did not see. One scene)

~~~~~

-Crushing Grip
(When locked into a clinch, it becomes lethal damage if he so desires)

-Divine Wrath
(All unarmed damage is now lethal)

-Shock Wave
(1 Legend. Strength + benefits to send out a shock wave. DV must beat it, or they receive bashing equal to the number of successes. Can also target a single target. Each unsoaked success in this case sends them flying one yard in the air)

[Plague of Hats]

Flatten Epic progression drastically. I suggest:



Rating Increment Total
1 1 1
2 1 2
3 1 3
4 2 5
5 2 7
6 2 9
7 2 11
8 3 14
9 3 17
10 3 20

At the very least do the same with Arete's scaling, though it's boring and enough of a game-changer that I strongly suggest altering it completely. Work out some lateral bonuses instead of just piling on bonus dice/successes. Likewise with a lot of the shenanigans you can get up to with whatever the Irish pantheon's purview is.

This leaves the tiers distinct and intact, but not so worlds-apart-y. Especially the later tiers, where it might be necessary to buy Legend successes to win but that becomes, you know, mathematically possible.

Also drastically change Untouchable Opponent. Make it shorter duration, or give it some relatively exploitable flaw so buying it doesn't de facto give you a permanent bonus. Whatever you do, kneecap the bonus.

The above are the most glaring-yet-easily-fixed mechanical flaws in the system. There is no end to further deserving tweaks, but doing just these few things will significantly curb the volatility of the system. It may not seem like much at traditional Hero-level, but it quickly makes a difference as Demigod+ characters enter the picture.

Don't try point-balancing anything you build. Do the dice pool math and then make that happen. If the NPC is supposed to be a pretty even challenge, give him (dice pool ÷ 2) + epic successes equal to half the expected PC counterpart.

Give your NPCs just whatever powers you want them to have. Focus only on key, iconic powers. No one should care that a regular PC would've probably scribbled in the hold-your-breath Knack somewhere on his sheet just because he ran out of things to spend his 1k xp on. So if it's not an important facet of your NPC's story, he doesn't have it.

[Icalasari]

Flatten Epic progression drastically. I suggest:



Rating Increment Total
1 1 1
2 1 2
3 1 3
4 2 5
5 2 7
6 2 9
7 2 11
8 3 14
9 3 17
10 3 20

I'll implement this immediately, starting next story since they did manage to escape the guy (Involved a set animal, an electric car, and Thor clotheslining someone with his hammer)


At the very least do the same with Arete's scaling, though it's boring and enough of a game-changer that I strongly suggest altering it completely. Work out some lateral bonuses instead of just piling on bonus dice/successes. Likewise with a lot of the shenanigans you can get up to with whatever the Irish pantheon's purview is.

Arete's scaling?


This leaves the tiers distinct and intact, but not so worlds-apart-y. Especially the later tiers, where it might be necessary to buy Legend successes to win but that becomes, you know, mathematically possible.

Also drastically change Untouchable Opponent. Make it shorter duration, or give it some relatively exploitable flaw so buying it doesn't de facto give you a permanent bonus. Whatever you do, kneecap the bonus.

I'll make sure to do this, although it isn't too urgent - Nobody builds dodging characters for some reason


The above are the most glaring-yet-easily-fixed mechanical flaws in the system. There is no end to further deserving tweaks, but doing just these few things will significantly curb the volatility of the system. It may not seem like much at traditional Hero-level, but it quickly makes a difference as Demigod+ characters enter the picture.

Don't try point-balancing anything you build. Do the dice pool math and then make that happen. If the NPC is supposed to be a pretty even challenge, give him (dice pool ÷ 2) + epic successes equal to half the expected PC counterpart.

The one character is statted so much because he's going to be levelling up with them, essentially adjusting as they do. So it's more for my notes


Give your NPCs just whatever powers you want them to have. Focus only on key, iconic powers. No one should care that a regular PC would've probably scribbled in the hold-your-breath Knack somewhere on his sheet just because he ran out of things to spend his 1k xp on. So if it's not an important facet of your NPC's story, he doesn't have it.

I mostly just included those little things because it's helping me memorize other things so I can keep better track of what the players can do

[Plague of Hats]

I'll implement this immediately, starting next story since they did manage to escape the guy (Involved a set animal, an electric car, and Thor clotheslining someone with his hammer)

Oh, that reminds me. Keep an eye on the Animal purview. It's another potential source of ridiculous dice pool expansion.


Arete's scaling?

The Greek pantheon purview is basically Epic Ability, providing bonus dice instead of successes but otherwise scaling just like Epic Attributes. Epic Attributes help to obscure what a problem this can be, but by flattening them Arete becomes the big culprit. In a system like Trinity/Exalted/Scion, dice supremacy becomes an overwhelming advantage at levels of difference that can seem small.

If you don't mind "I, Greek Dude, will always win at [Ability] head-to-head contests unless my opponent spends for Legend bonus successes", then just flatten Arete like Epic Attributes. I personally prefer doing almost anything other than dice/success bonuses when designing systems like this, but I don't have a ready alternative to suggest and maybe you don't care or don't have the time or energy.

[Icalasari]

Oh, that reminds me. Keep an eye on the Animal purview. It's another potential source of ridiculous dice pool expansion.



The Greek pantheon purview is basically Epic Ability, providing bonus dice instead of successes but otherwise scaling just like Epic Attributes. Epic Attributes help to obscure what a problem this can be, but by flattening them Arete becomes the big culprit. In a system like Trinity/Exalted/Scion, dice supremacy becomes an overwhelming advantage at levels of difference that can seem small.

If you don't mind "I, Greek Dude, will always win at [Ability] head-to-head contests unless my opponent spends for Legend bonus successes", then just flatten Arete like Epic Attributes. I personally prefer doing almost anything other than dice/success bonuses when designing systems like this, but I don't have a ready alternative to suggest and maybe you don't care or don't have the time or energy.

Ah, none of them are Greek, so that's ok