Nigh impossible to hit AC in low-level campaign.

[2gig]

So, I was helping a new player with a build for a campaign I'm going to DM, Temple of Elemental Evil (converted for 3e, playing 3.5). Anyway, without any significant AC optimization, just Full Plate and a Tower Shield, his Fighter was able to hit 23 AC. Most of the encounters are CR 4 or higher, roughly 2/3 of them rely on multiple low CR enemies to hit that CR. As such, their AB are rather low, ranging from as low at 1 to 5 for the most part. Even the strongest with their AB of 5, need to roll an 18 or better to hit this Fighter. On top of that, since he's a Dungeoncrasher, he can circumvent the low 1H damage with a bull rush (not always/reliably, of course). On top of this, most of these fights are with low-int creatures that wouldn't know to attack the guy in robes immediately, though I guess they'd give up on the tin man after a few rounds of trying to eat metal.

Also, this will be my second time DMing. The first time was a disaster; I was never able to find a 3.5 group to play in, but I think my experience with 4e helped. I don't want things to go too terribly wrong, and I don't want this character to feel invincible, but I don't want to tell him he can't take mundane armor, especially since it didn't even put him under half his WBL. Is there something I can/should do about this? Is there something I'm missing that would cause this to sort itself out?

[Chronos]

He can only be in one place at a time. Just make some of the encounters come up on the party from behind. Even dumb monsters that don't know to attack the guy in a dress will still attack him if he's the closest.

[RCgothic]

Hordes of mooks will still hit on a 20. Weight of numbers are still a threat to him.

His touch AC will also be atrocious (TAC11) unless he has Shield Ward from PHB2. Spellcasters will seriously inconvenience him with Rays and Magic Missile. That's not even counting all the non-hp damage weighs a spellcaster can inconvenience him.

Also targeting touch AC, it's a touch attack to start a grapple. Make sure he gets grappled whenever possible. Attempts to sunder his stuff also don't care about AC. Neither does Bull Rush, Disarm, Overrun or Trip. Weight of numbers will exhaust his AoOs so that these special attacks can get through.

Creatures can Aid Another to boost their attack roll.

If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent’s next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
So surround him with 8 of the things, and if four of the first seven manage to make the AC10 attack roll, then the next attack will be equivalent to tackling AC15. That's probably not better than trying to hit a natural 20, unless you're using mooks to set up an attack from an elite mook.

Swarms also don't care about AC.

[Crake]

If you ask me, leave him be. Early levels are fighters' time to shine, don't take that away from him. He'll become obselete soon enough, so let him have his fun.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Target something other than AC. Touch attacks, spells, breath weapons, supernatural abilities, traps.

Just keep some melee enemies in there so he can feel useful, the problem will sort itself out once you're higher level unless he invests all of his resources in keeping his AC up.

[eggynack]

This player has basically taken a big hit on his ability to effect combat, in order to gain the ability for monsters to be unable to punch him consistently. It's just not a particularly viable plan, even with access to dungeon crasher, and it's certainly not worthy of nerfing or removal. If you really want to hit him, do it with non-punches. A guy with 23 AC is hit just as hard by a web as a guy with 10 AC, and this is also true for everything from fireballs to fear. Meanwhile, this player's biggest contribution to the party is apparently that it's difficult to hit him. However, it looks like he's done little to incentivize enemies to try to hit him. Unless he's standing in a narrow corridor, how about you try having enemies just kinda walk around the guy with the full plate and tower shield. His best tactic in that case is probably politely asking the monsters to hit him, instead of the people standing behind him. Even dumb creatures aren't so dumb that they'd target a fighter with a wizard standing behind him. That's just basic tactics. Ultimately, the heavily armored sword and board fighter is possibly the weakest member of the party, so you should avoid nerfing him.

[2gig]

He can only be in one place at a time. Just make some of the encounters come up on the party from behind. Even dumb monsters that don't know to attack the guy in a dress will still attack him if he's the closest.

Yeah so far that's the only thing I've thought up. Can't have giant rats attack the Wizard every time, though.


His touch AC will also be atrocious (TAC11) unless he has Shield Ward from PHB2. Spellcasters will seriously inconvenience him with Rays and Magic Missile. That's not even counting all the non-hp damage weighs a spellcaster can inconvenience him.

Also targeting touch AC, it's a touch attack to start a grapple. Make sure he gets grappled whenever possible. Attempts to sunder his stuff also don't care about AC. Neither does Bull Rush, Disarm, Overrun or Trip. Weight of numbers will exhaust his AoOs so that these special attacks can get through.

Creatures can Aid Another to boost their attack roll.

So surround him with 8 of the things, and if four of the first seven manage to make the AC10 attack roll, then the next attack will be equivalent to tackling AC15. That's probably not better than trying to hit a natural 20, unless you're using mooks to set up an attack from an elite mook.

Swarms also don't care about AC.

Sadly, there are no casters written in until the BBEG for the first dungeon (it doesn't look that long, though, maybe we'll clear it in a session or two), and even he's just a Cleric with no touch attacks memorized.

I don't think most of those combat techniques will work on Mr. 22 Strength Goliath, but that aid another thing will definitely be helpful in at least one of the fights.


If you ask me, leave him be. Early levels are fighters' time to shine, don't take that away from him. He'll become obselete soon enough, so let him have his fun.

Yeah I nerfed the T1 and T2 casters down the 6 spell levels (increased spells per day so they get the same amount at 20). It helps the casters' early game and hurts their late obviously. I knew Fighters and such were good early, but I guess I didn't realize how good.


Target something other than AC. Touch attacks, spells, breath weapons, supernatural abilities, traps.

Just keep some melee enemies in there so he can feel useful, the problem will sort itself out once you're higher level unless he invests all of his resources in keeping his AC up.

Sadly, there's nothing written into the first dungeon that does this as far as I can tell. Some grappling stuff like blood drain and swallow whole, but it's tough to grapple a 22Str Goliath.


This player has basically taken a big hit on his ability to effect combat, in order to gain the ability for monsters to be unable to punch him consistently. It's just not a particularly viable plan, even with access to dungeon crasher, and it's certainly not worthy of nerfing or removal. If you really want to hit him, do it with non-punches. A guy with 23 AC is hit just as hard by a web as a guy with 10 AC, and this is also true for everything from fireballs to fear. Meanwhile, this player's biggest contribution to the party is apparently that it's difficult to hit him. However, it looks like he's done little to incentivize enemies to try to hit him. Unless he's standing in a narrow corridor, how about you try having enemies just kinda walk around the guy with the full plate and tower shield. His best tactic in that case is probably politely asking the monsters to hit him, instead of the people standing behind him. Even dumb creatures aren't so dumb that they'd target a fighter with a wizard standing behind him. That's just basic tactics. Ultimately, the heavily armored sword and board fighter is possibly the weakest member of the party, so you should avoid nerfing him.

I don't think it'd be appropriate for Giant Rats to walk right past the fighter, but they'd definitely figure out that they can't chew through his armor eventually. And sadly, there's almost no casting written in to this first dungeon of the campaign.

[eggynack]

Still, even with those factors, the fighter just won't effect combat nearly as much as a wizard will. His biggest contribution to any given fight will just be to not be hit, while a wizard's theoretical contribution to any given fight is to just end that fight. A fighter is suboptimal from the perspective of the game as a whole, and a fighter optimizing AC is suboptimal from the perspective of fighters in general. He really couldn't be doing much worse where actually making an impact is concerned. Let him have his AC focused build, for even if it's effective for this moment in time, it won't be effective for very long.

[RCgothic]

Sadly, there are no casters written in until the BBEG for the first dungeon (it doesn't look that long, though, maybe we'll clear it in a session or two), and even he's just a Cleric with no touch attacks memorized.

This falls within the purview of the DM to change.



I don't think most of those combat techniques will work on Mr. 22 Strength Goliath, but that aid another thing will definitely be helpful in at least one of the fights.

So that's a +11 Grapple modifier he probably has. That's not insurmountable if he rolls poorly.

For Disarm and Sunder, it's opposed attack rolls. He has a single handed weapon, so he gets no bonus beyond his BAB and strength, that should be about +7. Two handed weapons get a +4 bonus, so the enemies need only be STR16 to have an equal chance. So give your orks Longspears. A pair of them can bypass the AoO for attempting such a manoeuvre by being out of reach, and each have a chance of inconveniencing the fighter without taking him completely out of the fight.

Also, nets are an entangling weapon that only require a touch attack.

[JusticeZero]

Yeah, he's tough to hit with an axe. A spell will still mess up his day, and there are ways of dealing with him. I gave the melee in the party fits by siccing a boss on them who was a Battle Wilder with Inevitable Strike, a two handed weapon, and a bunch of dull grey ioun stones, then flanking him with a lieutenant with a touch attack, and a mook or two in the area who ran up just to do aid actions. A stack of minions doing aid actions to help a champion of theirs hit can negate a lot of AC quickly.

[RCgothic]

Flanking. That's another way to negate AC to a degree.

[Morgarion]

I want to second what Eggy said about not taking pains to nerf the tin can. Fighters get to shine by bruising their ways through low level goons for a while, then it's a casters game.

Additionally, I've been reading a lot of 'Awful DM' threads on various forums lately and specifically targeting one of the players for a build they employed because you think it is overpowered or annoying (regardless if that's objectively true) seems to be one of the big THOU SHALT NOTs.

Having said that, if you really want to throw his game off, you could swap out an EL ~3 encounter for a rust monster.

[Cheiromancer]

I want to add my voice to the chorus warning the OP not to nerf the fighter. Challenges will arise that he can't handle. He can't increase his AC as fast as his opponents will increase their attack rolls. Touch attacks and special abilities will be more frequent and significant. Let him have his fun now, roll over a few encounters: it will pass.

I do hope that the campaign will progress to the higher levels. I would be interested in hearing how the spellcasters fare with only 6th level spells at 20th level. That seems a bit low. 9th level spells as a capstone: that I can see, together with house-ruling or banning the most broken spells. But restraining them to 6th's - I think that high level adventure modules presume the availability of abilities that are only provided by spells of level 7 or higher.

[Vedhin]

I want to second what Eggy said about not taking pains to nerf the tin can. Fighters get to shine by bruising their ways through low level goons for a while, then it's a casters game.

Additionally, I've been reading a lot of 'Awful DM' threads on various forums lately and specifically targeting one of the players for a build they employed because you think it is overpowered or annoying (regardless if that's objectively true) seems to be one of the big THOU SHALT NOTs.

Having said that, if you really want to throw his game off, you could swap out an EL ~3 encounter for a rust monster.

I'll third this, and introduce you to a wonderful variant rust monster from WotC.

This (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wizards.com%2Fdefault.asp%3Fx %3Ddnd%2Fdd%2F20060714a&ei=LXvyUbnOFcKsrgGO0IDwBw&usg=AFQjCNHWDxBXggHOChpwVV4J5YA4otBw0A&sig2=CoUj9UbLIQILs-P9wdBufA&bvm=bv.49784469,d.eWU) rust monster has two major changes. The first is that its offense is significantly better, and the second is that the rust is now no longer a permanent nerf.

[JusticeZero]

Oh, he was still being effective even while being "nerfed" in my case. The enemy left half the party mostly unmolested while they were stacking up trying to dismantle him. So even when he was being dismantled, it was still pretty obvious that they were specifically gunning for him, and in doing so keeping the party alive. Plus, dealing with that damage basically locked down most of the party - the tank in question, the mender, and the guy who dropped a Share Pain on him only to go "holy heck, that's a lot of hurt.." There's other ways they could have approached the fight, especially if they had some more status effects to pile onto the enemy beyond entangle, or more room to move.

[drack]

Nurf, but make it situational, and no more then eery other encounter. Just enough to make him realize he's not invincible. It on;y took one attack from a bear for the fighter in full plate mitheral in my game to notice he wasn't invincible. Of course it was the first encounter so it wasn't really planned that he'd be the first one attacked, but some heavy damage one encounter makes people much less likely to conciser themselves an invulnerable fortress, which s sometimes more important then whether they are one or not. :smallbiggrin:

[Barstro]

On changing the encounters

This falls within the purview of the DM to change.


Not that I'm an expert, but I've always felt that;
1) The PCs have already been decided, and
2) The enemies have already been decided.

While the DM can certainly change things up, there should be in in-character reason for the change*. "I don't like how the fights are going" is a pretty bad reason. But, "BBEG is keeping an eye on the town and noticed that the fighter has a weakness to spells" is a good reason for a couple casters to be sent after the party. If PCs can adjust themselves for an upcoming fight, enemies should be able to as well.

*Unless the fights are changed purely in size (9 vs. 6 rabid dogs), not style, (changing the dogs to sorcerers) due to increased number of PCs in a session.

[Gavinfoxx]

On changing the encounters

Not that I'm an expert, but I've always felt that;
1) The PCs have already been decided, and
2) The enemies have already been decided.

While the DM can certainly change things up, there should be in in-character reason for the change*. "I don't like how the fights are going" is a pretty bad reason. But, "BBEG is keeping an eye on the town and noticed that the fighter has a weakness to spells" is a good reason for a couple casters to be sent after the party. If PCs can adjust themselves for an upcoming fight, enemies should be able to as well.

*Unless the fights are changed purely in size (9 vs. 6 rabid dogs), not style, (changing the dogs to sorcerers) due to increased number of PCs in a session.


Wow. Let's just say that I cannot disagree with what was just said here too little. This is just... wow. The role of the GM is to make the game fun, of COURSE they should change what is there!

[drack]

changing dogs to blink dogs? In most scenario there's no real reason why there should be X beyond that next corner. Any extra planning the GM does is extra and can be changed. :smallsmile: Still it's good to keep with the spirit of the campaign.

[cerin616]

Wow. Let's just say that I cannot disagree with what was just said here too little. This is just... wow. The role of the GM is to make the game fun, of COURSE they should change what is there!

Well, lets be fair here, i would be a bit confused if the BBEG was was randomly changing up everything he does all the time just to keep our fights a bit more challenging. It shouldn't feel like it was done on a whim.

What his post says is that the fight should be changed, but should be changed with elegance. And I have to agree with that.

[Spuddles]

Don't nerf him. Don't use any stupid underhanded tactics regularly. Don't "grapple at every opportunity". I'm not sure why a horde of cowardly CE creatures would willingly throw themselves to die on a goliath's sword anyway. It doesn't make sense, outside of bad DMing.

Instead, just use more creatures. A horde of mooks using ranged attacks is dangerous by there being a lot of them and level 3 characters not having much HP.

And honestly, why should a dire rat even be that dangerous to manshaped creature, born from the earth itself, covered in steel, and trained in the arts of war? It's a rat the size of a medium (game size small) dog. A medium (game size small) dog isn't even that dangerous to an unarmored human, much less a monstrous human in plate.

More creatures will lead to less frustration for your party- they get to hack through waves of mooks, you can roll 20s on them.

Also remember that the fighter is slow and his balance check will be abysmal (like -15??), so charging through a slippery area means he lands on his ass, virtually guaranteed (DC 10, even on a roll of 20 he fails by 5 or more). Charging also drops his AC by 2, and being flanked gives attackers +2. So in a round he charges into combat, he'll effectively have 19 AC.

Honestly, seeing all the "nerf fighter for having 23 AC" here is really frustrating.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, lets be fair here, i would be a bit confused if the BBEG was was randomly changing up everything he does all the time just to keep our fights a bit more challenging. It shouldn't feel like it was done on a whim.

What his post says is that the fight should be changed, but should be changed with elegance. And I have to agree with that.

But the BBEG isn't changing up everything? It was always like that? Neither the players nor the PCs should have good information of what they are about to fight, unless they are really good at spycraft, in which case it is locked in?

[Barstro]

Wow. Let's just say that I cannot disagree with what was just said here too little. This is just... wow. The role of the GM is to make the game fun, of COURSE they should change what is there!

I agree with that statement. But if the PCs have been fighting a bunch of orc fighters for several battles, there has to be a legitimate IC reason for the next fight to have several magic users instead. It SHOULD BE FUN, but it shouldn't be trying to take out the strongest PC just to take out that PC. IMHO, attacking a player just because he is strong is not fun.

If you read my prior post, I specifically state that fights should be changed by the DM (and implied that it is to keep them fun), but there still should be a reason that it changed. I've had my share of games where the DM simply gave all enemies perfect knowledge of the PCs' weaknesses to exploit. It's no fun to search for a necromancer, fight undead for weeks, level up, take Undead as a favored enemy, and then never see an undead again despite the fact that the PCs are still looking for this necromancer.

It is not logical for a typical guard post to consist of five people specifically tailored to have ranged touch attacks to take care of the aforementioned fighter. Such a guard post would not exist in the "real world", they would be designed to take out the most likely threats. That's why the fighter had his build the way he did; to take out the average group of guards. Now, if people know this group is coming and are aware of the tactics (not hard to believe, since people do talk) then it WOULD make sense for there to be such guards stationed to take the PCs out. Otherwise, it's too close to Dues ex Machina.

[Gavinfoxx]

It was Orc Fighters, and now you get to the Orc Warblades and Orc Barbarians and Orc Dragon Shamans and Spirit Shamans and Religious Adepts and Warlocks and Crusaders? The second tier of defense? And those can look like normal guards -- just mix things up a bit.

[JusticeZero]

Right. In the campaign i'm running, the Barbarian managed to become so good at tanking the weak enemies of the last adventure (breastplate, good dex, and DR from Biofeedback, against Small enemies doing 1d4 damage) that after a particularly absurd fight, the whole enemy army ran away from the party.. the next time they saw them, they had gotten hold of heavy crossbows with +1 ammo to deal with the DR better. Same enemies, just a change in tactics to deal with their expected enemy. And there's only so much they can re-kit themself for a given situation.

[cerin616]

It was Orc Fighters, and now you get to the Orc Warblades and Orc Dragon Shamans and Spirit Shamans and Religious Adepts and Warlocks and Crusaders? The second tier of defense? And those can look like normal guards -- just mix things up a bit.

Pretty sure thats pretty much exactly what he said to do.

[erikun]

Please note that the character is taking -2 to all attack rolls, including bull rush attempts. In that sense, he's already taking a hit to his combat efficiency (along with only 1H damage) in exchange for his high AC. Be wary about negating the one thing he does well in exchange for those penalties.

As others have said, large numbers of opponents will start to wear him down (along with making his AC highly relevant!) and so larger groups can be a way to go. Groups of 8 are going to be a rather big threat, because he's either going to be swarmed or have a lot of difficulty keeping all their attention away from other party members.

Minor spellcasting is also a viable option: replace one of the goblins with a 1st level wizard or sorcerer, casting just Magic Missile or Ray of Enfeeblement. They'd probably only have 2 or 3 castings for the day, but they'll give the fighter a high-priority target to go after. (That, or they'll give your ranged PCs someone to attack to keep the party fighter safe.)

The occasional grappler (your PC has a BAB +5) or tripper (wolves) would be okay, but I'd seriously avoid using them consistently. As I said at the start, the PC is giving up quite a bit to be such an effective tank. He should have the change to be an effective tank for awhile!

[drack]

Please note that the character is taking -2 to all attack rolls, including bull rush attempts. In that sense, he's already taking a hit to his combat efficiency (along with only 1H damage) in exchange for his high AC. Be wary about negating the one thing he does well in exchange for those penalties.Yup

An alternative would be to make everyone else look stronger by throwing in some enemies that they're good against.

[cerin616]

Plus having a large group makes him feel like he is doing well at what it looks like he wants to do, be a line breaker.

[drax75]

Do what a friend of mine did when i built a Githzerai, Swashbuckler, Monk with 108 armor class...?

"You pass out"

LoL nothing could hit me and each attack i only did 1d6 damage drove him up a wall that i gave up any semblance of offense for simply being unhittable.

Another idea is to attack his friends, sure he is unhittable but what makes the monsters want to waste their time with him? have the monsters bypass him and start wrecking his team.

[Flickerdart]

No sensible commander would send wave after wave of his men to fight an enemy that kills them all and never observe what was happening (using a scout that does not take part in the combat). After the nth wave of orc fighters perishes at the hands of a warrior carrying ten tons of steel on his shoulders, the orc leader can send in a bunch of guys to dig a pit and lure the fighter into it, or have them use nets to drag him off a cliff, or cause a few avalanches in the way of the party that are quite simple to climb over when you're not eating huge ACP from two sources. Night attacks (when the fighter is unarmoured) or fighting on swampy terrain (where anyone weighing too much will sink in) are also decent options. And none of these require you to stop using the guys you used before.

[drack]

"Yes sir, the wandering orc group, the human death choir of bards, the lurking basilisk, and the army of giant badgers, the wandering hoard of zombies, as well as the scorpion that was in your boot this morning were in cahoots. You heard me sir, cahooters they are! I'd bet my last copper dime!"

"Roger, you already gave me your last copper dime when you bet that that last room would hold a legion of flying pigs, give it a break already."

[Barstro]

"Yes sir, the wandering orc group, the human death choir of bards, the lurking basilisk, and the army of giant badgers, the wandering hoard of zombies..."

Let's be honest; what the hell kind of tower or dungeon has an army of giant badgers AND a wandering hoard of zombies? That is a pretty lame decorating scheme. :smallwink:


" you bet that that last room would hold a legion of flying pigs, give it a break already."

Please, someone do this! Without good range attacks by the PCs, even unarmed flying pigs will fill up a small unventilated room with enough methane to kill in a reasonably short time. Even if the gas kills the pigs, that's several hundred pounds of hog falling the the PCs

[drack]

Let's be honest; what the hell kind of tower or dungeon has an army of giant badgers AND a wandering hoard of zombies? That is a pretty lame decorating scheme. :smallwink:

You know it happens. :smallwink:

[supervillan]

Part of the OPs problem is running a converted 1e adventure (a real classic btw) for a 3.5e party. I've done many 1e to 3.5e conversions. A 1e dungeon with bugbears and minor undead in it needs significant alteration in order to be a challenge for a 3.5e party of similar levels to those specified in the original, 1e, design.

Case in point: I've just run a 3.5e conversion of Bone Hill. This was a 1e adventure for levels 2-4. My party of 4 third edition characters started it at level 3, finished at level 7.

In 1e scenarios, large numbers of humanoids were often presented throughout dungeons and usually they could cause some grief to an average party (barring application of battlefield control spells). Temple of Elemental Evil is similar in this regard, especially in the early stages. The OP is dealing with a goliath PC with 22 STR and 23AC, and he's facing bandits, bugbears and giant rats. The adventure as written needs editing otherwise the 3.5e party won't be meaningfully challenged. Give some of the bugbears class levels. Have them use appropriate tactics against the tank, but don't nerf the tank.

Incidentally, when Lareth the Beautiful takes the stage, remember he can spontaneously convert any of his spells to Inflict spells which are touch attacks.

[Barsoom]

So, I was helping a new player with a build for a campaign I'm going to DM, Temple of Elemental Evil (converted for 3e, playing 3.5). Anyway, without any significant AC optimization, just Full Plate and a Tower Shield, his Fighter was able to hit 23 AC. Most of the encounters are CR 4 or higher, roughly 2/3 of them rely on multiple low CR enemies to hit that CR. As such, their AB are rather low, ranging from as low at 1 to 5 for the most part. Even the strongest with their AB of 5, need to roll an 18 or better to hit this Fighter. On top of that, since he's a Dungeoncrasher, he can circumvent the low 1H damage with a bull rush (not always/reliably, of course). On top of this, most of these fights are with low-int creatures that wouldn't know to attack the guy in robes immediately, though I guess they'd give up on the tin man after a few rounds of trying to eat metal.

Also, this will be my second time DMing. The first time was a disaster; I was never able to find a 3.5 group to play in, but I think my experience with 4e helped. I don't want things to go too terribly wrong, and I don't want this character to feel invincible, but I don't want to tell him he can't take mundane armor, especially since it didn't even put him under half his WBL. Is there something I can/should do about this? Is there something I'm missing that would cause this to sort itself out?

Adventures that have encounters of only one particular type, that threaten the PCs in only one particular way, are lame. A good adventure has a mix of melee/ranged/magical fights, boss fights, mook fights, traps, tricks, and social challenges.

From your description, doesn't sound like you're playing a good adventure. It's all a monotony of melee mooks, wave after wave. And you just happen to have a character in the party that happens to be good against this. You have basically three choices, each with its own pluses and minuses:

1. Force a character change or weakening
2. Change the adventure. It's okay to have some challenges where his AC makes a lot of difference, just not all of them.
3. Accept it for what it is, and move on, possibly with only minor adjustments. It's not like his massive AC will keep breaking the game on level, let's say, 10.

[Pinkie Pyro]

an option is always to roll dodge instead of just a flat 10 base AC. my group had alot more fun with this rule, but it might be hard introducing it mid-campaign.

[2gig]

Ok, so I didn't notice that Tower Shield gets -2 to attacks. He'll be going with the Heavy Steel Shield. That helps the AC problem quite a bit.

There's an encounter with Giant Frogs that grapple. There's also a giant spider that can web and a huge snake that can grapple very well. The humans and bugbears can give disarm and trip a go, I'm wary to use sunder, though. I don't want to destroy his Brutal Surge Warhammer unless I have to.

I think I'll swap out some of the rats for wolves. Maybe one of the two Giant Ticks too... anyone know an interesting CR 2-4 vermin?

And I completely forgot that Lareth can spontaneously cast Inflict. I'll write a note of that for myself; it'll definitely help him hurt the Fighter and the Warblade who just sent me his sheet.

[drack]

I think I'll swap out some of the rats for wolves.

Wolves love to flank... everyone... at once. :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Ok, so I didn't notice that Tower Shield gets -2 to attacks. He'll be going with the Heavy Steel Shield. That helps the AC problem quite a bit.

He could swap tower shield proficiency for Extreme Shield, which is the best of both worlds. Slightly higher AC than a Heavy Steel Shield, doesn't give the penalty.

[2gig]

He could swap tower shield proficiency for Extreme Shield, which is the best of both worlds. Slightly higher AC than a Heavy Steel Shield, doesn't give the penalty.

What's that from? I've never seen/heard of it.

[drack]

Races of Stone if I recall.

[Gavinfoxx]

You can swap some exotic proficiencies per Complete Warrior, and I think the shield is in Races of Stone.

[Yogibear41]

I once played a druid werebear using the savage progression, when I was ecl 6 I had an AC around 22 and 14/silver damage reduction ( I took the feat from SS to bump me up by 2 twice) however I only had a +6 to hit with my primary claws, that combined with my horrendous rolling ability I missed dang near all the time, I also only had around 30 something hp. Ironically everyone still thought I was abusrdly overpowered as nothing could hurt me, except this one time we ran into people with silver arrows and they dropped me to -7 hit points in one round. Anyway in the long run the character ended up being killed when he was alone by a group of gnolls that used a combination of nets and "use rope" to tie him up in combat, and once again due to my bad rolling I couldn't get out of said ropes. They brought me back to camp, DM rolled some dice, and they decided to eat me. Got coup de grace'd to death tied up in a camp full of creatures that couldn't even normally get through my DR darn heavy picks and x4 crit modifier. So more or less their is always a way.