[3.5] Fun class to gestalt with Warmage?

[DustyBottoms]

Title says it all. Level five campaign, most sources open (No dragon mag or the like, preferably), and I'm eventually going to enter the Warmage into Rainbow Servant. Medium optimization - experienced players that aren't going for cheese but are taking an idea and making it efficient.

So, ideas for what to gestalt with a warmage? I was thinking that Warlock would add some interesting flavor and a few nice at-will abilities, but I'm looking for some creative/flavorful ideas.

[Blackhawk748]

well ill say this, Fighter would turn you into a true warmage, Fighter gets you full BaB and a ton of feats, Warmage gets you Spells and armored casting. It seems like a natural combination to me.

If you like ToB i recommend Warblade then, for the same reasons.

Barbarian would be cool, you could even go Rage Mage (yes its kind of a dual progression, but it lets you cast while raging so its kinda necessary.)

[Theoboldi]

I always liked the Beguiler for these purposes. There's nothing quite like sneaking up on your enemies, softening them up with a few enchantments and illusions and then, when they all are fighting each other, jumping in and burning them to ashes.

[DustyBottoms]

I do like ToB, I've been considering Warblade - the d12 HD would shore up that aspect and with light armor I could still reliably cast and use maneuvers in combat - that would make a pretty strong combination, if quite a handful to try and manage it all.

[Blackhawk748]

I speak from experience, as i once played a Gestalt Battle Sorc/Fighter, there is a ton of paperwork, but your so freakin awesome you wont care lol

[DustyBottoms]

I always liked the Beguiler for these purposes. There's nothing quite like sneaking up on your enemies, softening them up with a few enchantments and illusions and then, when they all are fighting each other, jumping in and burning them to ashes.

The combination of totally different spontaneous casting lists wouldn't be bad, either. It's a clever idea.

[Fouredged Sword]

Cleric - Goes well with everything

Factotum - Extra standard actions turn you into a mail man

Wizard - Spells... So many spells...

Spellthief - Ok, so ray sniper.

Warblade - Warforged warmage warblade. Take the warchief PRC.

[Blackhawk748]

Warblade - Warforged warmage warblade. Take the warchief PRC.

Wha.......... *facepalm* lol

[Fouredged Sword]

It could work though. Warchief grants Cha bonuses, warblade keeps you alive and lets you be a melee striker VS single big targets. Warforged makes you immune to lots of stuff and gives you good stats. Warmage grants some blasting spells for dealing with numbers of opponents.

You also get the ability to take damage and gain +10 to strength for a round. It could kill you quick, but would be a nice trick with persisted vigor.

[Blackhawk748]

oh god it even works? lol juts imagine telling you DM what you are lol

[DustyBottoms]

Warblade - Warforged warmage warblade. Take the warchief PRC.

This is pretty spectacular, actually, haha

[Fouredged Sword]

I also think we added more PRC's with war in the name when we hashed this out last time.

We can add in Warmaster, for leadership sillyness. A dip in psion (egoist) will get us a shapeshifting ability and into warshaper, for +4 Str, +4 Con and fast healing.

Really warchief isn't very good so let's drop it.

So the build looks like

Warmage 20 // Warblade 3 / Psion (egoist) 1 / Warshaper 4 / Warmaster 10 / War Mind 2

It turns out fairly OK. Warmage gives few things wizard couldn't do better, but you turn into a group buffing melee master with inspire courage all the time to anyone within 30ft and cool abilities.

[Rogue Shadows]

Monk is arguably the best class to gestalt with anything, as long as you don't mind being Lawful.

[DustyBottoms]

Monk is arguably the best class to gestalt with anything, as long as you don't mind being Lawful.

Emphasis mine. Monk is a good gestalt'er, I agree, but the alignment restriction is normally a pain, but the lawful requirement still goes well with warmage fluff anyway.

[Fouredged Sword]

Monk 2 / Sorcerer X / Asthetic Fist. Cha to AC, and other cool stuff. Plus utility spells to fill in warmage.

Monk 3 or more is rarely worth it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can easily start out Warmage 1/ Rainbow Servant 4// whatever. If your DM won't go for the Text > Table and give Rainbow Servant 10/10 spellcasting, then put a gestalt Warmage level along side its 1st, 4th, 7th, and 10th class levels.

I'd go with Factotum for at least eight levels, maybe more depending on what you want to take after Rainbow Servant 10. Definitely include (Unarmed) Swordsage 2 with one of the feats to switch the AC bonus to Cha or Int, which will still apply in light armor.

Maybe get Martial (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) Wizard 1 with Abrupt Jaunt, get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll, and take Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon. VS lets you spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, which would include spells you've added to your spellbook. It would be fair for your DM to require your character to have the spellbook open to that page and read it as you cast it, which limits its usefulness in combat, but you would still get tons of utility and buffs out of it. You can just get a spellbook and the ability to put spells in it from the feat Magical Training (PGtF), but on a gestalt character there's little reason to not get the Wizard dip for its many other benefits.

Artificer would also be an extremely strong choice for many reasons, especially if Rainbow Servant is giving 10/10 spellcasting.

[Petrocorus]

The Warmage primary ability is Cha. So why not Paladin or Crusader, or both?

[DustyBottoms]

You can easily start out Warmage 1/ Rainbow Servant 4// whatever. [... snipped ...]

I've never truly understood how to jump from Warmage straight into Rainbow Servant - what loophole bypasses the "Requires casting 3rd-level arcane spells" in Rainbow Servant? I've looked for it before and I can't find it explained anywhere, it just gets implied. :smallamused:

[Kuulvheysoon]

Warblade - Warforged warmage warblade. Take the warchief PRC.

Nah, man - Warforged warmage/warmage//warblade.

Warmage is also a Dragonlance prestige class, and CAr warmages don't lose that much to multi-classing.

[yougi]

I'm surprised no one pointed it out, but Rogue (or SA Fighter), since your Sneak attack applies to any spell with a touch attack. If you're either evil (or can convince your DM to let go of that stupid, stupid requirement), then Assassin could work too.

[Gemini476]

I've never truly understood how to jump from Warmage straight into Rainbow Servant - what loophole bypasses the "Requires casting 3rd-level arcane spells" in Rainbow Servant? I've looked for it before and I can't find it explained anywhere, it just gets implied. :smallamused:

...you can use Versatile Spellcasting to go Warmage 4/Rainbow Servant X, is suppose, but I don't know how to get level three spells at 1. The auto-hieghten from one of the illumian words, maybe? Or go Elf Generalist Domain Wizard 1/Warmage 1/RS X.

[Karnith]

...you can use Versatile Spellcasting to go Warmage 4/Rainbow Servant X, is suppose, but I don't know how to get level three spells at 1.
The usual trick is combining Versatile Spellcaster with Heighten Spell and Sanctum Spell (or Earth Spell, or something similar).

[ZamielVanWeber]

Incarnate: because it goes with everything.

[Anium]

Duskblade, all the way. High Bab, full casting, you can pump your int without feeling guilty. Problem is MAD, but you will be an incredible gish.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've never truly understood how to jump from Warmage straight into Rainbow Servant - what loophole bypasses the "Requires casting 3rd-level arcane spells" in Rainbow Servant? I've looked for it before and I can't find it explained anywhere, it just gets implied. :smallamused:

There are many ways to make a spell count as being higher level, and such effects stack with each other. Just a few examples:

Sanctum Spell: +1 spell level in your designated sanctum, +0 metamagic. Makes a spell count as -1 spell level outside your designated sanctum, which may have unintended benefits when combined with Lesser Metamagic Rods, Spell Storing weapons, Circlet of Rapid Casting, post-errata Arcane Thesis, etc.

Illumian with Improved Sigil: Krau: Pick two spells you can cast, they count as one spell level higher every time you cast them. Whenever you're able to cast the next higher level of spells you can repick what spells this applies to.

Versatile Spellcaster: Spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. With a class that automatically knows every spell of a given level that they can cast, this allows a Warmage 1 to cast 2nd level Warmage spells.

Earth Spell: When you use Heighten Spell while standing on stone or unworked earth, the spell's level counts as one higher and you get a caster level bonus equal to the metamagic cost of Heighten Spell.

There are a few more, but those are the most common. For example, a Human Warmage 1 with Sanctum Spell and Versatile Spellcaster already qualifies for Rainbow Servant.

[Aegis013]

Obligatory Binder mention, I find it's passive vestige abilities are pretty nice on any gestalt that you simply can't find anything else to use. Cha synergy is nice here, too.

[DMVerdandi]

+1 for warblade.

Either pick up smiting spell or arcane strike for when you want to add on more damage to your attack.

[DustyBottoms]

There are many ways to make a spell count as being higher level, and such effects stack with each other. Just a few examples:

Sanctum Spell: +1 spell level in your designated sanctum, +0 metamagic. Makes a spell count as -1 spell level outside your designated sanctum, which may have unintended benefits when combined with Lesser Metamagic Rods, Spell Storing weapons, Circlet of Rapid Casting, post-errata Arcane Thesis, etc.

Illumian with Improved Sigil: Krau: Pick two spells you can cast, they count as one spell level higher every time you cast them. Whenever you're able to cast the next higher level of spells you can repick what spells this applies to.

Versatile Spellcaster: Spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. With a class that automatically knows every spell of a given level that they can cast, this allows a Warmage 1 to cast 2nd level Warmage spells.

Earth Spell: When you use Heighten Spell while standing on stone or unworked earth, the spell's level counts as one higher and you get a caster level bonus equal to the metamagic cost of Heighten Spell.

There are a few more, but those are the most common. For example, a Human Warmage 1 with Sanctum Spell and Versatile Spellcaster already qualifies for Rainbow Servant.

Thanks much, stuffing this in my pocket someplace for my next campaign. :smallwink:

[Spuddles]

Monk is arguably the best class to gestalt with anything, as long as you don't mind being Lawful.

You can get a lot of monk out of only two levels of it, and never have to worry about that part of alignment again.



Thanks much, stuffing this in my pocket someplace for my next campaign. :smallwink:

The skill req of Rainbow Servant is the hard part, but that shouldnt be veryh hard in gestalt.

[dspeyer]

I nominate bard. A good set of subtle and utility spells to complement the blasting. Primary cha secondary int, same as warmage. Good skills and decent violence. It adds a lot of versatility to what's otherwise a rather focused character.

[Metahuman1]

Go Warblade and pick up superior unarmed strike. Now grab open Chakura: Foot, Split Chakura: Foot and Shape Soulmeld: Pegasus Sandles, along with learn invocation to get 24 hour flight.

Congrats, your now a DBZ character.

[Petrocorus]

Go Warblade and pick up superior unarmed strike. Now grab open Chakura: Foot, Split Chakura: Foot and Shape Soulmeld: Pegasus Sandles, along with learn invocation to get 24 hour flight.

Congrats, your now a DBZ character.

Are you speaking of Pegasus Cloak? It must be bind on shoulders.

Why learn invocation?

[Metahuman1]

Learn Invocation get's you, with the right invocation, 24 hour flight at your speed. Pegasuses Sandles don't grand nearly as much flight speed as either most of the flight invocations or Pegasuses Clock, but you can get perfect maneuverability off them, which is a worth while investment. Split Chakura is there so that if you ever need or want to wear magic boots, your trick doesn't stop working.

[Psyren]

Seconding Spellthief - I'm a big fan of gestalting lower tier classes to make something stronger. Spellthief has weak sneak attack, but it's just enough that your blasty spells would get pretty strong, and the rest of the synergy is great.


Are you speaking of Pegasus Cloak? It must be bind on shoulders.

I think s/he meant Airstep Sandals.

[Theoboldi]

Learn Invocation get's you, with the right invocation, 24 hour flight at your speed. Pegasuses Sandles don't grand nearly as much flight speed as either most of the flight invocations or Pegasuses Clock, but you can get perfect maneuverability off them, which is a worth while investment. Split Chakura is there so that if you ever need or want to wear magic boots, your trick doesn't stop working.

Could you tell me which book Learn Invocation is in? Are you talking about the Extra Invocation feat? Because for that to give you Fell Flight, you would have to be an 11th level warlock.

[Petrocorus]

Learn Invocation get's you, with the right invocation, 24 hour flight at your speed. Pegasuses Sandles don't grand nearly as much flight speed as either most of the flight invocations or Pegasuses Clock, but you can get perfect maneuverability off them, which is a worth while investment. Split Chakura is there so that if you ever need or want to wear magic boots, your trick doesn't stop working.

I think i don't get it because i don't find Learn Invocation and Pegasus Sandals.
Are you speaking of Airstep Sandals, the Incarnate soulmeld, which indeed gives perfect manoeuvrability once bound to the feet chakra but requires that start and end your turn on ground?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I second Warblade. Even if you don't use the melee strikes, it's got a top-line chassis, and the counters will give you excellent defenses. Beguiler has some synergy, and really turns you into an economy-class Wizard ("everything but buffs.") Incarnate goes with everything, but you'll have a terrible chassis for gestalt.

[Metahuman1]

Learn invocation is a feat, it was either form complete Arcane, Complete Mage or Dragon Magic, I forget which.


I could swear there was an incarnum soulmeld that gives perfect maneuverability called Pegasuses Sandles. I read about the trick of combining them with an invocation for the perfect maneuverability flight in the Dragonfire Adept Handbook.

[Psyren]

I could swear there was an incarnum soulmeld that gives perfect maneuverability called Pegasuses Sandles. I read about the trick of combining them with an invocation for the perfect maneuverability flight in the Dragonfire Adept Handbook.

You're thinking of Airstep Sandals, and it's unclear whether the Feet bind still requires you to land after every move.

[Theoboldi]

Learn invocation is a feat, it was either form complete Arcane, Complete Mage or Dragon Magic, I forget which.


I could swear there was an incarnum soulmeld that gives perfect maneuverability called Pegasuses Sandles. I read about the trick of combining them with an invocation for the perfect maneuverability flight in the Dragonfire Adept Handbook.

As far as I can see after doing some searching, there is no Learn Invocation feat, only Extra Invocation. It also is in Complete Arcane, so it's probably the one you are thinking of.
Anyway, as I mentioned before, you would need to be a 11th level warlock to learn Fell Flight with it, since it can only give you invocations one grade lower than you already can use.