Please help me find a career [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

tcrudisi

2013-07-26, 11:31 AM

Dearest Playgrounders,

My plight is similar to many recent college graduates: I cannot find a job. I've been looking for about a year now with very little success. I admit that I've been a little bit picky (since I would literally drown in debt if I accepted a minimum wage job), but honestly, I've applied to every job that I am qualified for that would pay a living wage.

What's the problem? I'm not sure. I tailor my cover letter and resumé to each job specifically after researching the company for hours. I discover what they want out of that position and I make sure that my cover letter and resumé each demonstrate how ideal I would be in that position. And then, nothing. I don't even hear back from companies or hiring managers. I do give follow-up emails or phone calls, but those are usually met with silence, too. I spoke with one District Manager at Family Dollar (as I was trying to get hired on as a store manager), and he was absolutely glowing about my resumé. He loved my education and previous work experience. He said that he was going to forward it to another DM who was doing interviews that very week. I never heard back, despite the fact that a few days later I went and spoke with a store manager who e-mailed him on my behalf (not wanting to give me his number).

I'm sure that my story is a familiar one. I'm not the only person out there struggling to break into a career. I am a very optimistic individual, the kind of person who is always smiling and can see the good in everything. These last couple of days, the weight of failure has just really bogged me down. I'm clearly doing something wrong and I'm not sure what it is or how I can fix it. That's the big thing: if I only knew how to fix it then I wouldn't mind so much.

Anyway, I don't want to give away my contact information here, but I did create an e-mail address just for here in case you would like to contact me personally for any reason: [email protected] . (I'm not silly enough to put my main email address here as I don't want it to become flooded with spam.)

My education:
Bachelors in Economics from a business school. I studied basic accounting, business courses, and the application of economics in the business world.

I then pursued two masters degrees concurrently, but left one semester shy of completing them due to financial reasons: International Studies and European Politics, Business and Law. Both programs can be summed up as studying the impact of politics and law on the business world in countries that have free trade arrangements.

I spent 9 months studying and living in Canberra, Australia; 6 months in Arnhem, Netherlands; and a year in Guildford, England. World travel and foreign cultures was a major point of interest to me and I wanted to understand the difference in both businesses and cultures in other countries as opposed to the US.

Work Experience:
I was a restaurant general manager at a fast food restaurant for 6 years. This store was just shy of about $1 million in annual revenue. I left to pursue my college education.

I was a business consultant for a specialty gaming shop for about a month. It was operating at a loss and I was hired to fix the inefficiencies that was occurring as well as work with the store owner to produce a short and long-term business plan. I helped him increase revenues by over 30% and reduce loss through theft by over 50%. I did this by redesigning the layout of the store and introducing new forms of marketing which increased interest in the store. The business plan was successful in getting him a business loan to move to a new location, too.

I realize that my education and work experience isn't the most amazing, but I feel like it should be getting better interest than what it is. I'm applying to mostly store manager or assistant manager positions. I really want to get into the business world, especially as an expat, but I have no idea how to go about doing that.

Please, offer up your suggestions and tips. What kind of jobs should I be applying to? What am I doing wrong in the application process? What could I be doing better? Anything, please.

scurv

2013-07-26, 11:50 AM

First glance would be you are looking for employment in locations were 90% of the people (like the ones who make hiring decisions) do not have comparable credentials to what you are applying with.

Second glance I would have to say that the early generation of people with BMA degree's has dirtied the reputation of said field. And hiring managers do have a knack for knowing what resume's are simply a rework of the position requirements.

<<edit>>
I would make contact with a local head hunter and for the meantime i would find something, even if it is below your means that you can use to demonstrate your skills.

Chen

2013-07-26, 11:51 AM

A lot of retail stores tend to promote from within. The store managers there rarely need a lot of higher education, and the companies seem to prefer someone who is familiar with the way things are done. The problem here of course being you need to start at the minimum wage positions and hopefully work your way up. Small chains are going to be wary of just hiring a random manager from outside because it can have morale implications to their current employees (and the whole training aspect).

Have you tried looking at the marketing or procurement or some similar business based department in bigger companies? This is more likely to result in a career than working as a store manager anyways. That or some other type of financial firms or bank.

Zorg

2013-07-26, 12:57 PM

tcrudisi

2013-07-26, 01:22 PM

As a current FMCG store manager, I can tell you you're not going to make much headway straight into a store manager's role. I can elaborate if you want, but the posters above covered the basics of it (promote from within is safe, and big box stores have large pools to draw from. Tertiary education is not common). Also, I know where I work has a graduate program for young employees to keep them in the company, so you may well be up against that and not seeing it.

However, also trying for a department manager role with the aim of getting quickly promoted is something that could work. The company likes it as it's not as big a risk on them to test you out (rather than picking someone with years of experience in place) and they don't have to pay you near as much and it's easier to spin to HR as a humble move but showing you're still hungry for the big role.
A dept. manager role could also play on your history more as it is more focussed on specifics rather than large budgets and so on. For instance my store is classified as medium trade and does $1.2mil a week - some depts would do $1mil a year though and be more akin to working a speciality store.

Yeah, that's sort of what I expected. When it comes to the larger box stores (Wal-Mart as an example), I've not applied for store manager positions; I've applied for assistant manager positions.

The problem is that I can't start as a department manager because the pay is too low. It's literally easier for me to survive without a job than it is for me to take one at department manager pay. As soon as I get a job, I have to start paying off more than $100,000 in student loan debt, which the typical department manager pay just won't let me make monthly payments on and still buy food. (Without working, I can get Food Stamps, so at least I'm not going hungry.) Stupid, isn't it? And yet that's the rut I'm stuck in right now.

Tegannie

2013-07-26, 01:29 PM

EmeraldRose

2013-07-26, 01:30 PM

Something you may have to consider is finding an assistant or department manager (or even team lead) position somewhere, for the experience. In order to live, you will also have to find a throw-away second job.

This lifestyle may be workable if you are single, with no kids. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who are forced into this situation even when it is much less than ideal.

Brother Oni

2013-07-26, 01:40 PM

Have you thought about the hospitality industry? The Mariott Hotel chain were very keen to recruit my wife (she had a Masters in Business Administration, but minimal work experience due to visa issues), so they may be worth looking into.

Here's their page on entry level jobs for students and recent graduates (http://www.marriott.com/careers/paths/entry-level-jobs.mi). My wife says that there was an option of working abroad in different hotels, which might interest you.

JoshL

2013-07-26, 03:13 PM

Have you considered a temp agency? I graduated last year with a bachelor's and a master's in accounting and talked to a few agencies while looking for a job. I ended up finding a permanent position, but working through a temp agency might help, at least until you can find a permanent position. A lot of companies also do temp-to-hire.

Seconding this a thousand times! Over the years, temp agencies have been very good to me. In addition to general temp agencies (Adecco landed me a gig that has been my dayjob for the past four years), there are specialized agencies and/or consulting firms where your Economics degree could be put to good use!

Mauve Shirt

2013-07-26, 04:25 PM

Thirding Temp Agencies.

Tyndmyr

2013-07-26, 04:39 PM

The problem is that I can't start as a department manager because the pay is too low. It's literally easier for me to survive without a job than it is for me to take one at department manager pay. As soon as I get a job, I have to start paying off more than $100,000 in student loan debt, which the typical department manager pay just won't let me make monthly payments on and still buy food. (Without working, I can get Food Stamps, so at least I'm not going hungry.) Stupid, isn't it? And yet that's the rut I'm stuck in right now.

Well, this is part of the downside of having lots of student loan debt. It constrains options a bit. Still, since that's in the past, no point dwelling on that now.

Do be aware that sometimes, thanks to cut-offs for various programs such as food stamps, getting a somewhat higher paying job can result in a net loss in the short term...but be a better bet in the long term. It sucks, I know, but such is life. Do check into how much you can make and still get food stamps, as there might be a way to at least start making a little bit and not go hungry.

Consider if you are willing to move for employment. If so, it opens up a lot more possibilities for you. In particular, your economics degree is likely to get you more of a foot in the door at places other than the big box stores...I would consider applying for a government position as well. They are slow to hire, but they typically value education and have at least some stability and a normal work week. A plus, anyway.

Additionally, if you are familiar with managing a business, but cannot find employment, consider starting your own. You probably do not have significant investment capital, but some businesses, particularly online ones, can be started with very low investment.

Working multiple unsexy jobs also works. I did this for quite a bit early on...worked up to sixty hours a week while going to college. It sucks, quite a lot, let me tell you...but if you manage your money well, it can at least get you moving in the right direction.

Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you'll update us here with further news!

tcrudisi

2013-07-27, 12:16 AM

I've looked into a couple of temp agencies, but they've told me they weren't the right ones for me and to look elsewhere. I'll dig deeper.

Do be aware that sometimes, thanks to cut-offs for various programs such as food stamps, getting a somewhat higher paying job can result in a net loss in the short term...but be a better bet in the long term. It sucks, I know, but such is life. Do check into how much you can make and still get food stamps, as there might be a way to at least start making a little bit and not go hungry.

Yep, I'm aware. I have a friend who works for the government in food stamps (in a different city, the the laws are state-wide so she can offer advice), so I'm paying attention to that. But thanks. :)

Consider if you are willing to move for employment. If so, it opens up a lot more possibilities for you. In particular, your economics degree is likely to get you more of a foot in the door at places other than the big box stores...I would consider applying for a government position as well. They are slow to hire, but they typically value education and have at least some stability and a normal work week. A plus, anyway.

Oh man, you have no idea. I practically scream to everyone, "I AM WILLING TO MOVE!" There's absolutely nothing holding my wife and I to our current city. I've mentioned to almost every employer that I was willing to move anywhere within the US, and outside the US if they would assist with the work visa. Do you have any suggestions now that you are aware of our willingness to move? I'm absolutely willing to move. In fact, my wife and I have traveled the world and would actually like to move.

Additionally, if you are familiar with managing a business, but cannot find employment, consider starting your own. You probably do not have significant investment capital, but some businesses, particularly online ones, can be started with very low investment.

Yeah, I've actually got a really good idea for starting our own business that ties into one of my wife's degrees. The problem? It's not online and we can't afford the start-up right now. My credit used to be great ... but the student loans have pulled that down quite a bit. Joy of joys. But yeah, it's something I've considered, the problem is coming up with the right idea.

Working multiple unsexy jobs also works. I did this for quite a bit early on...worked up to sixty hours a week while going to college. It sucks, quite a lot, let me tell you...but if you manage your money well, it can at least get you moving in the right direction.

I'm willing to work long hours. But - one of the reasons why I'm where I am now is because I was too willing to do this when I was younger. At one point, I was working two full-time jobs while going to school for 18 credit hours (time and a half). When did I sleep? I kid you not: I would get about 2 hours a day, at most. I burned out. My wheels spun, and everything came crashing down after a while.

That's not to say that I can't handle it. When I was just working and not going to school, I was able to do 80+ hours a week at the restaurant I managed. I can handle it physically and mentally, but not emotionally. I am married and we are having serious discussions about kids. We will be trying for them very, very soon. Am I willing to work 2 crappy jobs and not see my wife? Frankly, no. There really is a big difference between working 70 hours at one job (which I'm willing to do) and working 35 hours each at two jobs (which I'm not willing to do). In the former, I can still get a day or two off to see my wife. In the latter, my hours will be more spread out, and I certainly wouldn't have a day off, and then I'd never get to spend any quality time with my wife.

Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you'll update us here with further news!

Thanks, I shall.

I really do appreciate the advice, everyone. I'm absolutely going to look into temp agencies. It's a resource that I have been severely under-utilizing. If you have any other suggestions, please keep them coming. Even if I don't respond to you directly, I promise I am reading your post several times and considering it from all angles.

Iruka

2013-07-27, 03:23 AM

I guess you already covered sites like LinkedIn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinkedIn)? You seem like a guy who is good at networking.

If you don't mind moving to a different country, check Germany? I'm currently looking for a job myself and at least to my biased eyes it seemd like there were tons of jobs for economics people with work experience (and next to none for material scientists without any experience :smallyuk:). Language might be a problem though.

Kiren

2013-07-27, 03:47 AM

I guesss you already covered sites like LinkedIn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinkedIn)? You seem like a guy who is good at networking.

If you don't mind moving to a different country, check Germany? I'm currently looking for a job myself and at least to my biased eyes it seemd like there were tons of jobs for economics people with work experience (and next to none for material scientists fresh without any experience :smallyuk:). Language might be a problem though.

Indeed is a great free service as well, and it's worth checking out. Provides good coverage of the job openings of one's area.

Starwulf

2013-07-27, 04:50 AM

. I am married and we are having serious discussions about kids. We will be trying for them very, very soon. Am I willing to work 2 crappy jobs and not see my wife?

No offense, but if you can't find a job/support yourselves, then having kids is a terrible idea right now. I wouldn't even begin to consider kids until you found a steady place of employment that allowed you and your wife to do more then just "survive". Otherwise you're going to be REAAAAALLLLLYYY struggling in life, it'll make what you're going through right now like a walk in the park.

EmeraldRose

2013-07-27, 09:01 AM

No offense, but if you can't find a job/support yourselves, then having kids is a terrible idea right now. I wouldn't even begin to consider kids until you found a steady place of employment that allowed you and your wife to do more then just "survive". Otherwise you're going to be REAAAAALLLLLYYY struggling in life, it'll make what you're going through right now like a walk in the park.

Yeah, I second this. We continue to struggle on only my income, even though I've managed to land a succession of higher paying jobs over the last 6 years. For us it is a matter of which bill do we pay, and how many months can we make it before the mortgage company starts to threaten again.

We have just gone the entire summer with my husband gone to Skills Training for law enforcement. Now that he's eligible to be POST certified and test, he will be able (finally) to apply to different departments.

We have three boys, and I am in school full time for my second masters. All part of that continuing to try to make myself more desirable professionally. And yes, I work full time as well.

I wouldn't change anything that would jeopardize having had our kids, but it sure would be a heck of a lot easier financially with just the two of us, or even just myself.

You've only just completed school. Far be it from me to tell you when to have kids, as from experience I know it generally happens at the most inconvenient time possible. Whenever it happens, luck to you and your wife.

And if it comes to the two of you surviving financially, so that you can get to a comfortable point, I think she will understand if the two of you are unable to see each other as much as you like. Just make the most of the times you do have.

Jack Squat

2013-07-27, 09:44 AM

Mind if I look over your resume? I can't offer you a job, but I've never really had a problem getting interviews off of mine, and I've got similar education.

tcrudisi

2013-07-27, 10:33 AM

Yeah, I second this. We continue to struggle on only my income, even though I've managed to land a succession of higher paying jobs over the last 6 years. For us it is a matter of which bill do we pay, and how many months can we make it before the mortgage company starts to threaten again.

The timing of when my wife and I have children isn't up to us. At this point, we have a decision: Do it really soon or not at all. We aren't in our 20's any more.

tcrudisi

2013-07-27, 10:35 AM

Mind if I look over your resume? I can't offer you a job, but I've never really had a problem getting interviews off of mine, and I've got similar education.

Absolutely! If you e-mail me at the e-mail I posted above, I'll happily send it to you to review.

[email protected]

Alejandro

2013-08-06, 10:04 PM

I'm going to chime in with the others and say, holy crap, no, don't have kids. You cannot afford them, and that is not fair to the kids.

Tyndmyr

2013-08-07, 10:34 PM

The timing of when my wife and I have children isn't up to us. At this point, we have a decision: Do it really soon or not at all. We aren't in our 20's any more.

Talk to your doctor about your particular risks, etc.

But I do share the concern of opting to have children without employment, etc. Keep in mind that even if, down the road, biological children are not an option, if your financial future is squared away, adoption is a solid choice.

Having children without the financial means to care for them is very rough on not only you, but the children as well. I can't tell you how to prioritize your life, but I do advise you have a very serious sit down and figure out what those priorities are, and how you can realistically achieve them.

Alejandro

2013-08-08, 09:11 AM

In my own job (which often involves working with people who are seeking new or better employment) I would ballpark 'had kids we did not plan and budget for' as a good 40% of so of major reasons why they're financially busted. And unlike almost every other major reason that can be addressed with making life changes or budget changes or circumstance changes, there's no way they can just get rid of the kids after having had them, at least by the time I see them.

tcrudisi

2013-08-08, 08:30 PM

Let me try to nip this in the butt: My wife and I are financially responsible individuals who plan out every cent of our budget. We know that children are expensive and do not plan on having them for 2 more years. At the end of that 2 years, we will make a decision on whether to have them or not, based primarily on our finances at the time.

Trust me: We want to delay having the little brats as long as possible, both for our sanity and for our finances. This is absolutely, positively not an issue.

The issue is 100% me finding a career. I did have some luck recently; I got called in for an interview on Monday. I went in and absolutely rocked it. I was called back within 2 hours to set up a second interview. That happens this Monday.

The downside? It's really an industry I don't want to get into. It's fast-food. I'm not even sure which position I'm being recruited for because of how they handle it. Everyone starts off as a "manager in training". They give you assistant manager pay (their lowest managerial pay), and at the end of 3 months, they decide which managerial position to put you in based on how you performed during the training: assistant manager, co-manager, or general manager. Then, because this place couldn't be any more awesome, they require you to work 52 hours a week (I'm fine with that), but they've basically said that they expect you to work 80. Oof. It's salaried, but at least they pay $8/hr for each hour above 52. And the end pay is pretty darn good, even for assistant managers (average $40k/year). I'm still not sure if I want to handle that. Obviously I will, but the downside to this is that it will make finding another job so much harder if I literally have no time to interview somewhere else. I just dread the thought of being back in fast food.

Alejandro

2013-08-08, 10:08 PM

I apologize if I offended you. I interpreted your earlier statement as that you were not using/do not believe in birth control, hence the timing of kids not being up to you.

tcrudisi

2013-08-08, 11:02 PM

I apologize if I offended you. I interpreted your earlier statement as that you were not using/do not believe in birth control, hence the timing of kids not being up to you.

No offense taken. It was just that this thread suddenly became about the proper timing of having children and that's not what I intended.

Karoht

2013-08-14, 10:30 AM

What you said:

"My education:
Bachelors in Economics from a business school. I studied basic accounting, business courses, and the application of economics in the business world."

What I heard in my head:
"This guy sounds like he should be selling stock or managing a hedge fund. Why is he applying for a managerial position at a store? Where is his cash handling and selling experience, where are his fundamentals? Glowing resume, good education, but is he the right guy for this store?"

That said, have you tried banking? Tellers tend to get promoted quickly if you can make it through the progression path, and with your education you should have an edge. Or get your lending regulations certification and be a loans person.

Warning: Working in banking sucks, especially in the States. It pays almost as badly as fast food with few perks or benefits, and you don't make good money at it unless you sell well or get into higher positions.

The good news is, with some selling experience you might fill in the gaps a bit better.
The other good news is, you could probably get a job right now as a professional assistant/administration with your education. Are you a certified accountant as well? Maybe take a few weeks/months and get that as well.

tcrudisi

2013-08-15, 05:22 AM

Thanks, Karoht. That's actually some solid advise and I might just look into those soon.

But - I do have an update.

Two Mondays ago, I went in for an interview at a fast food chain (it's a small chain and doubtful that more than a couple of you have even heard of it). Well, I applied to them because of how much they pay their managers.

I absolutely rocked the interview. I was prepared with a lot of questions, and my last question to them was, "Now that you've had a chance to review my resume and speak with me, what's the one thing that would stop you from offering me this position?" He answered (hey - I got feedback), and then I proceeded to say, "I can understand that, but let me give you two reasons why that will not be an issue." I then proceeded to bring up a couple of points in my past where that issue was overcome.

Needless to say, when I left, I was feeling dang good about my prospects. I was told they'd contact me in a few days, but two hours later, I'm getting a call back. They wanted me to come back in for a second interview. That was last Monday.

Well, I make the drive to the interview place. I was told on the phone that it was mostly to discuss salary, but that didn't make sense, because they pay all their managers the same. (Pay is based on what level of management you are, and what level you are is determined by performance.) I make the 35 minute drive, get taken in, and the guy simply asks me if I had any more questions for him. I made up a couple (I had already asked everything I needed to know the week prior) and we were done in like 5 minutes. I'm a bit worried because it wasn't nearly as smooth as before. I'm once again told they'll contact me in a week.

I get home and now I'm a bit worried. I'm just hoping that my phone rings. It does.

"Mr. tcrudisi? My name is ---- and I'm calling from Q.O. I see that you put in a resume with us for a position in Greensboro. Are you still interested in it?" (Note: I gave them my resume at least 3 months ago and I think it was closer to 6 months ago.)

"Yes, I am."

"Well, that one has been filled, but there's one in Concord. Same position. We'd love to have you on board if you are interested in it."

I'm freaking out. Concord isn't exactly close (a bit over an hour away), but I was just offered a job. The downside? My wife likes it here and it would mean that she'd have to leave her job. It would pay about the same as hers, so it comes down to which one we prefer and if she can find employment there. She probably can, but I need to speak with my wife first. I inform the lady that I need a couple of days to discuss it with my wife since it involves moving. She's okay with it.

We hang up. About 5 minutes later, that restaurant calls me back, offering me the position.

What. The. Heck. I've been looking for work for over a year now and I just got TWO job offers on the same day? Wow.

I tell the restaurant that I am interested, but I need to speak with my wife, and I'll call them back later that day.

Now, luckily, I have a friend-of-a-friend that works high up in Q.O. I spend the next couple of hours trying to contact him. I'm finally successful. We chat for a bit and he says, "You know, there's a District Manager position open close to where you are and your resume is strong enough. You should contact --- and speak with her about it." (Same person as before.)

I do so. We chat for a good 20-30 minutes. We have a wonderful rapport and she says that if I apply for that position, she'll make sure that HR sees it in the next couple of days.

This was Monday afternoon. Yesterday (Wednesday), I get a call from HR. I go over my resume with him. I also ask him, "What concerns do you have about putting me in this position?" His response, "As you said, you don't have any multi-unit management experience, but I'm confident you can do the job. You have the management experience and you followed that up by getting your education."

Of course, I heard the worrisome, "I have a couple more people to interview. I'll pass up your resume to the hiring manager. If we decide to go your way, we'll contact you in the next 2 weeks."

The good news? He did give me his contact information so that I can contact him to find out how the process is going.

Whew. So as it stands right now:

Restaurant job will pay a lot more than the lesser Q.O. job, but it involves working 60-75 hours a week. It also doesn't involve moving. However, I'll have to buy a cheap car to commute to work.

The cheap Q.O. job doesn't pay as well and involves moving (something I'm okay with, but my wife would rather avoid it). We wouldn't need to buy a car in this case and she could probably easily find work in the new city.

The better Q.O. job (DM) pays more than the restaurant job at first, but between "about the same" and "slightly more" after 3 months. (Confused? That's when I'd finish the training at the restaurant and get a pay raise.) A company car would be provided for me. It also involves moving, but my wife would be happy to move out there.

Now I've got to weigh those pros and cons. Obviously if I get offered the DM position, I take it in a heartbeat. But it's a tough choice between the other two. I really don't want to work 60-75 hours a week in fast food, but the pay is fantastic. The lesser Q.O. job doesn't pay nearly as well, but I won't die from stress in 5 years, either. This one is really a toss-up.

I'm very excited and this has been a fantastic week for me. I'm very nervous about the DM job, so I'd like to ask everyone to spend a second and send some good vibes my way. If I don't get it, I do have a couple of fall-back options, but let's face it: I really want that position.

Anyway, thanks for reading and giving some input. And while I'm sure I'll take one of the positions, I also intend on continuing to look for other opportunities. I'm wanting to better myself and eventually end up in a position that I'm happy with and pays well.

Chen

2013-08-15, 08:05 AM

Tegannie

2013-08-15, 08:09 AM

Congrats!

Are you a certified accountant as well? Maybe take a few weeks/months and get that as well.

On a bit of a side note, it takes a lot more than basic accounting and a few weeks/months to become a certified public accountant in the US. I know because I'm trying to become one.

It takes years of education to just take the test. I have both a bachelors and a masters in accounting (both from a really good business school, known for being one of the best in the nation for accounting) and barely meet the requirements (I have about two more classes than what is required). (exact amount varies from state to state and my state has particularly high requirements)

Then the test can take over a year to pass: It's four tests, each taking 3-4 hours, that you can only take during specific 2-month windows through the year. In addition, these tests are notorious for being hard to pass. I just failed my first one and my co-worker has a friend who had to take one three times to pass.

Then, IIRC, there's a work experience requirement after you pass the test. I think it's three years in my state.

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but I don't want anyone to think that it's easy to become a CPA. Not after the years of study and work I've (and others) put into it.

tcrudisi

2013-08-15, 12:12 PM

Your original post (and thread title) mentions a career. Will the fast food place be a career? Is there growth opportunity? Also what's Q.O? Is it a big company? Is there more opportunity for growth? Basically what is it you want in the end?

Yes, it can be. The fast food place is growing very quickly. I'm confident based on my knowledge of the industry, education, and work habits that I'll be a GM within a year and get promoted to DM within 3 years. There I'd be making a 6-figure salary and, while I'd be in fast food, it would be easy to work there a few years and translate that experience into a different industry if I desired. Though, more than likely I would use it to spring myself into a Regional Manager position and go from there.

As for Q.O.? They are a big company with something like 6 or so companies under their umbrella. (I'm not going to post their name publicly just yet on the off-chance that someone from there googles their name occasionally.) I'm actually applying for the smallest one, but they have a unique business plan and they are growing rapidly as well, so the opportunities for advancement are there. Plus, they did say that promotions within all those companies are possible. While their DM position doesn't pay nearly as much as the restaurants DM position, it's still solid. Even better: It's multi-unit management experience, so, if after a couple of years I decide to go elsewhere, I could jump to something like Family Dollar where their DMs make right at 6 figures. (But, I could also be promoted up to Regional Manager here, too.)

I'm pretty loyal, though, so long as there's room for advancement, I'll stick with the company. I'm also very good at managing my money, so I'm not going to jump ship just because another company offers a little bit more money; it would take a substantial offer to consider switching.

tcrudisi

2013-08-15, 12:16 PM

Congrats!

On a bit of a side note, it takes a lot more than basic accounting and a few weeks/months to become a certified public accountant in the US. I know because I'm trying to become one.

It takes years of education to just take the test. I have both a bachelors and a masters in accounting (both from a really good business school, known for being one of the best in the nation for accounting) and barely meet the requirements (I have about two more classes than what is required). (exact amount varies from state to state and my state has particularly high requirements)

Then the test can take over a year to pass: It's four tests, each taking 3-4 hours, that you can only take during specific 2-month windows through the year. In addition, these tests are notorious for being hard to pass. I just failed my first one and my co-worker has a friend who had to take one three times to pass.

Then, IIRC, there's a work experience requirement after you pass the test. I think it's three years in my state.

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but I don't want anyone to think that it's easy to become a CPA. Not after the years of study and work I've (and others) put into it.

Kudos to you for going through it. The light at the end of the tunnel is that CPA's are probably the most highly sought after profession in the US. I almost went to get my masters degree in Accounting, and was accepted into the program, but due to some outside circumstances (the timing of when the program began and my time studying in the Netherlands ended), I had to pursue other things.

Starwulf

2013-08-15, 06:26 PM

tcrudisi

2013-08-15, 11:47 PM

I have to ask, why does an hour commute entail moving? I mean, I know it's a little bit more gas, but the cost you save in not throwing your life in total disarray is more then worth it. Back when I was still able to work, out of 6 or 7 different jobs held, only 1 was less then an hour commute. My one job involved an hour and fifteen minute commute, and then up to another hour beyond that just to get to the days job site.

It saves a lot of money. The job that's a bit over an hour away provides rent, utilities and phone for $100 a month. (They charge $100 a month instead of making it free so that it's not taxed, or something like that.) So we'd save a few hundred a month by moving.

Starwulf

2013-08-16, 02:46 AM

It saves a lot of money. The job that's a bit over an hour away provides rent, utilities and phone for $100 a month. (They charge $100 a month instead of making it free so that it's not taxed, or something like that.) So we'd save a few hundred a month by moving.

Oh, so you'd automatically have a place to live? Ok, now that I can understand, that's a HUGE perk to not mention m'man! $100 rent, with a less then 15 minute commute would probably be a great opportunity. Will the other Q.O. job opportunity offer the same in regards to housing? If so, it might be worth it to hold off, that way you A: don't have to move, and B: have a substantially higher income, while C: Paying substantially less for living expenses. Would certainly make the prospect of a child MUCH easier :)

Chen

2013-08-16, 07:41 AM

Yes, it can be. The fast food place is growing very quickly. I'm confident based on my knowledge of the industry, education, and work habits that I'll be a GM within a year and get promoted to DM within 3 years. There I'd be making a 6-figure salary and, while I'd be in fast food, it would be easy to work there a few years and translate that experience into a different industry if I desired. Though, more than likely I would use it to spring myself into a Regional Manager position and go from there.

Now I'll preface this with not knowing pretty much anything about how the fast food/restaurant industry works, but assuming you'll have a 6 figure salary 3 years out of college doesn't seem terribly realistic to me. Having been in the corporate world, promotion to that high a level tends to require far more than just being good at your job and putting in the hours. The politics of the situation are key. I'm not saying its impossible. But I'd look up the history of whatever company this is and try to find out what their local hiring practices tend to be like. Sure they'll give you the "there's plenty of room for advancement" in the interview, but is it realistic? Moving up a corporate ladder in a bigger company is generally easier simply because there are more positions available. Sure getting to the top is not easy (near impossible) but getting into a solid position with a decent salary and such tends to be.

AKA_Bait

2013-08-23, 01:43 PM

Starwulf

2013-08-23, 04:26 PM

tcrudisi

2013-08-23, 09:34 PM

Now I'll preface this with not knowing pretty much anything about how the fast food/restaurant industry works, but assuming you'll have a 6 figure salary 3 years out of college doesn't seem terribly realistic to me. Having been in the corporate world, promotion to that high a level tends to require far more than just being good at your job and putting in the hours. The politics of the situation are key. I'm not saying its impossible. But I'd look up the history of whatever company this is and try to find out what their local hiring practices tend to be like. Sure they'll give you the "there's plenty of room for advancement" in the interview, but is it realistic? Moving up a corporate ladder in a bigger company is generally easier simply because there are more positions available. Sure getting to the top is not easy (near impossible) but getting into a solid position with a decent salary and such tends to be.

I know some of their GMs make right at $100k/yr. Obviously, just because I'm a GM doesn't mean I'll make that (though their lowest is $65k). However, they promote off results, not experience, and I've seen how quickly and slowly they promote. Based off that, and my experience and how hard I'm willing to work, I'm confident that I'll be a GM within 1 year (honestly, I expect it to be sooner than that) and quite probably a DM within 3 years.

You are right: bigger companies have more room for advancement, but this company is still small and expanding quickly - typically by about 10-15% every year. That means there's plenty of room for upward mobility. In other words: I've done my research on this company and talked to a lot of people who work within it. I know what needs to be done to make myself stand out and get those promotions.

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

I am both interested in this and want to pull my hair out. It's a great suggestion and, honestly, it's one I should consider. The problem is that I really, really just don't want to go back to school. I love school and I love learning. I'm just ready to begin the next phase of my life: career, family, bitching about kids on the lawn, etc.

So, truly, thank you. I'm just desperate for other things rather than to continue my education even more.

Thanks, Starwulf. We are in our lower 30s, but the problem arises if we took 4 years to do more education, then I'd need a job and financial stability before we could consider kids, then the next thing you know, we're pushing 40. It's still possible, sure, but we are well aware that there's a large number of factors that make it undesirable to attempt it that late: fertility rates decrease, increased risk of something going wrong for either/both mother and child, we'd both be older and not have less energy to deal with little brats, etc.

Howl

2013-08-24, 02:52 AM

Let me start by saying; I only read the first paragraph of your post and didn't read anyone else's, so if you resolved this, disregard.

I know that in business classes people suggest you tailor your resume to each specific job but you're in need of a job NOW not the perfect job in months or years without a financial foundation to stand on. Qualifications are subjective, so recruiters may not agree with what you tailor to be qualificative. Also, you are wasting WAY too much time on the research aspect of it. Hours of your time looking up a company is enough time to put in 3-8 resumes. This really becomes a numbers game, to illustrate; when I first got on the job market I put in as many applications as I could with a generic resume for the position I was looking for. Within three days I had an offer, and the next week I was doing training. Don't be picky, especially since a job is crucial based on where you're at. Also, don't overlook a minimum wage job, every hour of your time you spend looking and not getting a job is an hour you could be making $8 more, or whatever the minimum wage for your area is. That stacks up, slowly, but it does. Also, minimum wage jobs give the perfect opportunity to start seeking new jobs. As far as managerial positions go, being qualified to most employers means two things; having experience in the JOB, not academic experience, and being internal originally. That is, they mostly hire within the company for higher positions, at least at the companies I've worked at. Also, with most places you start at minimum wage with given you're a well spoken, educated individual, you'll be able to outperform at least %80 of your co-workers who see it just as a job, not an opportunity for advancement. Just don't start in the fast food industry, most people who do never get out of it. Hope it's helpful. Good luck!

P.S. This is my personal opinion, take it as such.

Brother Oni

2013-08-24, 06:07 AM

It's still possible, sure, but we are well aware that there's a large number of factors that make it undesirable to attempt it that late: fertility rates decrease, increased risk of something going wrong for either/both mother and child, we'd both be older and not have less energy to deal with little brats, etc.

I'd like to congratulate you on your obvious effort on considering this, especially since problems are often compounded (eg: due to your age, something's wrong with the child, resulting in additional care requirements which is harder to deal with because you're older).

Having two of my own (we didn't learn the first time! :smalltongue:), I'm not sure I could handle a third these days, especially since we now know how hard it's going to be.
This isn't even considering issues with the baby's personality (my second was climbing out of his cot before he could even stand unaided, so his playpen with high walls became his bed for nearly a year).

Eulalios

2013-08-24, 06:28 AM

I know I'm probably the only person in America giving this advice these days, but have you considered putting the kids on hold for 3 or 4 years and going to law school?

A good LSAT score and your background could get you a free ride to my alma mater as well as quite a few others. If you go and put your back into it, i.e. pull out the stops to finish in the top 10% of your class, you should have no trouble finding a well paying legal job afterwards.

This is undoubtedly over optimistic. *Everyone* who goes to law school expects to finish in the top 10%, but for 90% of people, that doesn't happen. Grading is utterly subjective ... and I say this as someone who did finish in the top 20%.

Unlike some of my classmates who did better academically, I was extremely fortunate to have already landed a FT consultant position at a firm (based on prior experience), before finishing law school. I watched with dismay as some good friends went through exactly your current situation, but with the additional debt load from three years of graduate tuition (not even to mention the living expenses for those who dropped work to focus entirely on making that "magic" top of the top quintile).

Meanwhile, my neighbor the diesel mechanic, with his fifteen years of experience, parlayed a layoff into a shop supervisor position and moved to a nicer house in a nicer town.

I expect you will be better off financially if you follow the plan you've stated, than if you went to law school. I would give the same advice to anyone who has already established experience and an upward path in an open industry.

Crow

2013-08-24, 06:26 PM

My plight is similar to many recent college graduates: I cannot find a job. I've been looking for about a year now with very little success. I admit that I've been a little bit picky (since I would literally drown in debt if I accepted a minimum wage job), but honestly, I've applied to every job that I am qualified for that would pay a living wage.

Oh yes, because NO income is so much better than SOME income.

Start by getting a job, and then start looking for a better job. It is easier that way.

Fri

2013-08-25, 05:40 AM

Oh yes, because NO income is so much better than SOME income.

Start by getting a job, and then start looking for a better job. It is easier that way.

He answered that already.

The problem is that I can't start as a department manager because the pay is too low. It's literally easier for me to survive without a job than it is for me to take one at department manager pay. As soon as I get a job, I have to start paying off more than $100,000 in student loan debt, which the typical department manager pay just won't let me make monthly payments on and still buy food. (Without working, I can get Food Stamps, so at least I'm not going hungry.) Stupid, isn't it? And yet that's the rut I'm stuck in right now.

Tyndmyr

2013-08-25, 12:40 PM

It's a nasty rut to be sure, but sometimes you have to plow through it to get anywhere. And it at least gets you started paying down that student loan pile(I believe economic hardship deferments are also possible, though, depending on how much you make) which also helps long term.

Multiple jobs is another option to overcome a shortage in pay. It sucks hard, and probably is untenable once you do have kids, but it might help get you through the initial period of low pay.

Everything has tradeoffs...odds are you're going to have to grab shift supervisor, etc positions to get a foot in the door, but if you pick a healthy, growing company, the odds of openings above you giving additional chances to move up improve. And you'll get current work experience. A longer work experience track record and recent experience to point to helps a ton.

Crow

2013-08-25, 12:42 PM

Yes, I saw that, Fri. But the bottom line is that he has been unemployed for a year because he is looking for that one job, and it is not materializing.

In that time, he could be actually earning, working a job, and establishing himself with a company that he may even be able to move up in. At the very least, having a job looks better on your resume, and provides you with a solid working reference. I'd much rather check in with someone's current boss than some dude he worked for 4 years ago.

As a business owner, I am going to hire the guy that has been working for me or somebody else for a while before I hire a kid out of college, especially for a management position ("Why hello, guy I've never met. I know that you know absolutely jack about my business and how we operate, but please allow me to put this entire division in your hands...").

As a matter of fact, almost all of the people I've hired fresh out of college have been turds, with a few exceptions. Not that OP is a turd, but the OP needs to contend with all of the people in similar situations who have given recent college grads a bad name. I've hired a lot of people, and the best ones have almost always been the ones who were already working. It shows a (surprise, surprise) willingness to work. Hard workers don't make excuses.

But the bottom line is that if you can survive on no income, you can survive on some income minus student loan payments. Being unemployed hurts your prospects of landing another job.

edit: As tyndmyr pointed out, a second job can help. I worked a second job delivering pizzas part time to help get on my feet. For a part-time job, it ended up paying pretty well with the under-the-table tips, and gas allowance (though most places don't offer gas reimbusement).

AKA_Bait

2013-08-26, 11:30 AM

So, truly, thank you. I'm just desperate for other things rather than to continue my education even more.

Understandable. I'm otherwise going to have to agree with Crow. Find something and keep looking. Use temp agencies and the like if you need to. The medium/long-term downside of not working anywhere is probably worse than the short term downside of working and making less. Honestly, one of the reasons I suggested law school was because, generally speaking, most employers don't give a gnome's private parts what you did beforehand so a year resume gap won't be a problem going forward.

I watched with dismay as some good friends went through exactly your current situation, but with the additional debt load from three years of graduate tuition (not even to mention the living expenses for those who dropped work to focus entirely on making that "magic" top of the top quintile).

Just to clarify here, you should not go to law school if you are paying more than minimal tuition unless you are going to, like, Harvard. Any decent LSAT score should net a full or near full scholarship to a lower ranked school.

And, as I mentioned, this is not a popular position to take these days. It has worked out pretty well for me and pretty much everyone I know from law school who didn't sit on their druthers in terms of finding a job during and after graduation. That said, there is no shortage of very irate recent graduates having a tough time finding a place in the current market.

We are in our lower 30s, but the problem arises if we took 4 years to do more education, then I'd need a job and financial stability before we could consider kids, then the next thing you know, we're pushing 40.

Trade down for a younger wife? :smallwink:

warty goblin

2013-08-26, 12:09 PM

AKA_Bait

2013-08-26, 12:16 PM

Also, hasn't the bottom kinda dropped out of the legal job market, on account of all the people with law degrees? It's not an area I pay a lot of attention to, but the last I heard, actually getting a decent job out of law school was difficult, and the job itself was likely to be extremely brutal. Somebody I know who followed this track and graduated in the top 10% of her Harvard class described her job as constant finals level crunch.

Much as I'd like to get into it, this really isn't the forum to discuss the current legal market. 1. Because we have derailed this thread enough with it. 2. Because any discussion of the broader issues gets a little too close to the prohibited topics of real world politics etc. for comfort.

Karoht

2013-08-26, 01:22 PM

If you deliver pizza's you can also deliver other things at the same time, so long as you are good at juggling the priorities.
Nothing says management material faster than 'demonstrating a solid grasp on juggling multiple priorities at once.'

Got a car?

EmeraldRose

2013-09-03, 11:09 PM

Hey tcrudisi. I'm curious where things stand. Did you accept either job offer? Any resolution? Hope it is working out for you and your wife...

tcrudisi

2013-09-04, 08:09 AM

Hey tcrudisi. I'm curious where things stand. Did you accept either job offer? Any resolution? Hope it is working out for you and your wife...

Thanks for asking! I have both very good and very bad news.

My first week at the fast food restaurant came with mixed results. The training went well, I aced the exam, and I got along very well with my co-workers. Unfortunately, the long hours did me in. I worked 62 hours my first week (and that was in 5 out of 6 days since I started on day 2), so the hours are very long. I wasn't tired, but my feet did give out on me. Badly. By the end of the second day, I was having trouble standing. I invested in some new soles, a heel cup, epsom salts, ibuprofen, icy hot, and ice packs. I used them all liberally but they really didn't help. By the end of the week, I was literally collapsing because I had such a sharp and immense pain that went from my heels all the way up the back of my legs.

Why? Well, I have a few guesses. I've been out of work since 2008 and in college since then. Granted, I did walk everywhere in college. I walked around Europe. My feet would get sore, but it would go away after a week or so. Not this pain. This pain was comparable to when I broke my arm. When I say that the pain was intolerable, I mean it. It doesn't help that I weigh a bit more than back in 2008 and worked 70-80 hour weeks then.

So, I went to the doctor yesterday. It's not heel spurs (thank goodness, as that's a permanent problem), and he suspects its just major inflamation. He gave me a doctor's note and a prescription medicine that I can use to help me sleep. (The pain has woken me up the last two nights.) I'm still waiting to hear back from the restaurant and I expect to find that I've been fired. That's what the GM says he expects, though its not his call.

But, on to better news: my resume has been kicked up to the VP for an area manager position that I've been coveting for a while now. I believe I referred to them as QO in previous posts (or simply the gas station). I spoke with him on the phone and he said that my name was on a list to be interviewed. Not for the position in eastern NC that I applied to, but rather to a new position that is opening up where I'm living right now. They will give interviews for the eastern NC position next week and then beginning interviewing for the new position after that. I'm really excited about this as it's multi-unit management and would be far more beneficial to my career aspirations in the long-term. The pay is much worse than a manager position as the fast food restaurant (heh, as funny as it is to say that), but emotionally, mentally, and physically the overall job is much better.

So right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm also not walking for a few days while my heels heal. Just sitting here, without moving, I'm getting sharp pains that radiate from my heels. Joy of joys. Luckily, if it is inflammation, it is temporary, so I'll be back on my feet in no time.