total noob to 4th

[drakoonity]

Ok so I have only played 3.5 and in out group we are going to try 4th to see how we like it, I know noone in our group knows how to play it really we only have the core books I think. My question is, is can anyone tell me like a bit over view of it all, or if you can direct me to the right links so I can find out. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks.

[Akodo Makama]

This topic:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292427

Has a number of good descriptions of the differences between 3.5/pathfinder and 4e.

Short version: it's a team game, don't expect to be solving entire encounters on your own. Wizards still rule, but so do fighters (and monks). Everyone has strengths and weaknesses; use your strengths to cover your mates' weaknesses.

[Dimers]

About the game ... it's heroic fantasy, and every character will be broadly skilled and effective at what they do. Its mechanics focus on combat almost exclusively and it's not possible to make a noncombat character, but there's as much roleplaying potential here as there is in almost any other game.

The game is split into three tiers of play. In the first, you choose a class and a race to begin shaping your identity. In the second tier, you're established and it's time to really specialize. In the third tier, you work toward ascending (or possibly conquering) the world, becoming legend.

Some useful how-to tips ... Buy a subscription to D&D Insider. It costs less than $2 per group member per month, everyone in the group can use it simultaneously, and it's excellent for making characters, finding out about the system and looking up facts on the fly.

If the DM only uses monsters from the first MM, fights will be a bit of a slog and Solo boss monsters will go down too easily. They got it right by MM3.

Get inventive in skill use.

Refluff descriptions to your heart's content.

Attack bonus matters to everyone -- not many powers for any class have a valuable function without an accurate attack.

DO NOT TRY TO MAKE A HYBRID. I swear it's nearly pointless to say that, since a lot of people just think "ooh that makes it sound powerful and/or forbidden and therefore it must be very very desirable", but -- NO. Get a few months of game experience under your belt first. You'll thank yourself for your self-control. Hybridization is almost the only way you can make a 4e character ineffective without deliberately trying to.

If you're a striker, zoom around killing things; if you're a defender, keep the enemy off the squishies and hurt them when they attack your friends; if you're a controller, make it impossible for the foe to get a decent attack in; if you're a leader, hand out bonuses and set up your friends to do well. Choose your role before thinking about your class. If you take a leader class and try to act like a striker, for example, it won't go well.

[Urpriest]

Some useful how-to tips ... Buy a subscription to D&D Insider. It costs less than $2 per group member per month, everyone in the group can use it simultaneously, and it's excellent for making characters, finding out about the system and looking up facts on the fly.


This is only sort of true. You can use it over the same time period, but you can't all log in at the same time to the character builder or things like that. It's still a great buy though, way better than buying the books for the most part.

[Dimers]

This is only sort of true. You can use it over the same time period, but you can't all log in at the same time to the character builder or things like that.

Are you sure? I think I've been logged on in multiple places at once before. Could be wrong.

[Urpriest]

Are you sure? I think I've been logged on in multiple places at once before. Could be wrong.

My group keeps getting an issue where one person logs in to the character builder and the other's crashes. The person logging in even gets a "this character was lost, do you want to recover it?" message. Compendium probably works fine though.

[brutticusforce]

DO NOT TRY TO MAKE A HYBRID. I swear it's nearly pointless to say that, since a lot of people just think "ooh that makes it sound powerful and/or forbidden and therefore it must be very very desirable", but -- NO. Get a few months of game experience under your belt first. You'll thank yourself for your self-control. Hybridization is almost the only way you can make a 4e character ineffective without deliberately trying to.



This is the only part of your answer I take issue with. Do not make a hybrid until you know what your doing. Unlike in 3.5, where mundane classes could stack reasonably well because BAB was cumulative, attack powers in 4e enforce standards (for instance, a DEX based rogue) by keying attack powers off of a primary stat. for instance, this means that all of the rogues attack powers use Dex mod to determine their to hit and damage.

Basically what this means is that when considering a hybrid, your primary stats should align. In general, striker- striker doesn't work, because you lose out on striker features, which never stack, or don't affect half your powers. other than that, its something you have to tinker with. Leader/ Leader works well (one of my favorite builds is a STR/ CHA cleric|Warlord/Bard) and Leader combines well with anything (as long as you follow the first rule and keep the primary stats aligned.

Hybrids are just a bit advanced, thats all

[tcrudisi]

This is the only part of your answer I take issue with. Do not make a hybrid until you know what your doing. Unlike in 3.5, where mundane classes could stack reasonably well because BAB was cumulative, attack powers in 4e enforce standards (for instance, a DEX based rogue) by keying attack powers off of a primary stat. for instance, this means that all of the rogues attack powers use Dex mod to determine their to hit and damage.

Basically what this means is that when considering a hybrid, your primary stats should align. In general, striker- striker doesn't work, because you lose out on striker features, which never stack, or don't affect half your powers. other than that, its something you have to tinker with. Leader/ Leader works well (one of my favorite builds is a STR/ CHA cleric|Warlord/Bard) and Leader combines well with anything (as long as you follow the first rule and keep the primary stats aligned.

Hybrids are just a bit advanced, thats all

Yeah ... gonna go ahead and disagree with you.

Hybrids are all about system mastery. Once you've mastered the system, you can actually make a hybrid that is on par with a normal class. If you are new (which you are) or not very good at the system, you will end up weaker than if you just reflavored a single class to be what you want.

Even aligning stats is only one part of the equation. It's a good first step, but it doesn't always hold true (Fighter|Battlemind is a great example). Instead, really, just master the system before you attempt a hybrid.

I cannot stress this enough: as a new player, avoid hybrids at all costs. It's pretty much the only way to accidentally make a crappy character. Heck, I've seen people who have played 4e since it came out attempt hybrids and they just fall flat at the table. And these people thought they knew what they were doing. Instead, just don't consider a hybrid.

I'm not trying to be an elitist about this, I swear. What I'm trying to do is give you some solid information. If there's something that you think can only be done with a hybrid, post it here and we'll tell you how to do it without being a hybrid. Because, honestly, that's your best bet. I'd say it's the best bet of 95% of the 4e players that frequent this forum, even. It's not an insult, it's a fact: hybrids are a trap. Period.

[Kurald Galain]

I cannot stress this enough: as a new player, avoid hybrids at all costs.
QFT.

The key is multiclass, not hybrid. If you want, say, a fighter with a bit of sorcerer, grab a multiclass feat. That's what they're for, and you remain an effective fighter. If you try to make it a hybrid, that's an unnecessary can of worms, and (especially for a novice player) you'll most likely end up with something way weaker than either class on its own.

[Gavran]

Do not make a hybrid until you know what your doing. My bold.

That advice was given to someone who has never played 4th - i.e. someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

tcrudisi, I think you've mistaken this poster for the OP. Brutticus may well be capable of building a viable hybrid, though that isn't the point of this thread.

[cavalier973]

Core books, huh?

You'll definitely want a DDi subscription, so that you can get all the errata.

If you have the funds, I would recommend that you get the Monster Vault.

If you have even more funds, get a copy of "Heroes of the Fallen Lands." The character builds (especially for fighters and rogues) are a little friendlier, but still powerful.

Read Sly Flourish (http://slyflourish.com/).

[Kurald Galain]

You'll definitely want a DDi subscription, so that you can get all the errata.

If you have the funds, I would recommend that you get the Monster Vault.

If you have even more funds, get a copy of "Heroes of the Fallen Lands." The character builds (especially for fighters and rogues) are a little friendlier, but still powerful.

Why on earth would you waste money on HOFL if you've already got a DDI subscription? You don't need any player books once you've got DDI.

(aside from that, if you're going to buy any player books, HOFL is one of the books with the least value for your money anyway)

[Arkhosia]

Why on earth would you waste money on HOFL if you've already got a DDI subscription? You don't need any player books once you've got DDI.

(aside from that, if you're going to buy any player books, HOFL is one of the books with the least value for your money anyway)

Agreed. If you're getting any books, get the player handbooks.

[tcrudisi]

Why on earth would you waste money on HOFL if you've already got a DDI subscription? You don't need any player books once you've got DDI.

(aside from that, if you're going to buy any player books, HOFL is one of the books with the least value for your money anyway)

I don't expect the DDI will be up forever. With 5th edition right around the corner, the 4th edition support (character builder, et. al.) will probably be dying soon, so if he likes 4e enough to play it after 5e comes out ... I'd be looking at investing in some books.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't expect the DDI will be up forever. With 5th edition right around the corner, the 4th edition support (character builder, et. al.) will probably be dying soon, so if he likes 4e enough to play it after 5e comes out ... I'd be looking at investing in some books.

True enough. I've never been a fan of the subscription model anyway. However, if you're going to invest in books, I'd suggest getting PHB1 + PHB2 + whatever Power book most applies to you; that's clearly more value for your money.

(plus the MVault for DMs, and DMG if and only if you've never DM'ed another system before)