Soul Manifester

[Renen]

Anyone out there can give some feedback on Psionic manifester (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)? Looks to be a pretty decent PrC that justifies the 2 lost ML.

Trying to decide what would be the best manifesting class to take with it. Incarnate seems to be the best bet, especially if the new soul meld "Psion's Eyes" (From the same article) that gives mindlink at will would qualify you for mindsight.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It would not. Mindsight asks for the Telepathy special quality specifically. I am confused, did you want the best Manifesting or Shaping class to get into Soul Shaper with?

[Fouredged Sword]

It seems neat, but I would burn a feat to get the bind. Incarnate 1 / Psion 4 / Soul Manifester 10 / psion 5 seems more effective.

Forgo binds and focus on high powered astral constructs using overchannel and talented. You then form melds for defense and utility, rocking a good DR magic at lower levels and ML 25-30 constructs at high levels.

[Psyren]

If it's mindsight you want, Shedu Crown will get you true telepathy to qualify.

Personally I prefer Wilder with Soul Manifester. Sure it doesn't advance Wild Surge but you don't really want more than +3 WS anyway. Meanwhile, you have a boatload of soulmelds to help with your low powers known (e.g. Airstep Sandals so you don't need Fly/Levitate) and Psion's Eyes + high Cha will let you UPD anything. You can even shape Mage's Spectacles to gain huge amounts of UMD too.

[Renen]

If it's mindsight you want, Shedu Crown will get you true telepathy to qualify.

Personally I prefer Wilder with Soul Manifester. Sure it doesn't advance Wild Surge but you don't really want more than +3 WS anyway. Meanwhile, you have a boatload of soulmelds to help with your low powers known (e.g. Airstep Sandals so you don't need Fly/Levitate) and Psion's Eyes + high Cha will let you UPD anything. You can even shape Mage's Spectacles to gain huge amounts of UMD too.

But wouldnt the Crown prevent you from benefiting from Headband of Int.?

[Psyren]

But wouldnt the Crown prevent you from benefiting from Headband of Int.?

Not if you:
1) take the Split Chakra feat, or
2) Use the custom item rules and add the Headband of Int properties to an Incarnum Focus Headband, which can be worn with a soulmeld

Either approach will work. One costs you a feat, the other requires custom items to be allowed in your game.

[AmberVael]

Not if you:
1) take the Split Chakra feat, or
2) Use the custom item rules and add the Headband of Int properties to an Incarnum Focus Headband, which can be worn with a soulmeld

Either approach will work. One costs you a feat, the other requires custom items to be allowed in your game.

Technically, the Adding Common Item Effects rules from the MIC are the default, and don't need to be allowed. With those rules, you could easily do this by RAW. Admittedly, a disappointing number of people house rule over that...

Incidentally, you could use those same rules to simply skip over the issue and get a face slot item that grants an intelligence bonus instead.

[Psyren]

Indeed, it would be more accurate to say "which requires the custom item rules to NOT be DISALLOWED." But do note that the DMG advises that DMs control the magic items available in their campaign anyway, so it's not as if the rules aren't suggesting that very houserule themselves.

[Renen]

So what do you think would be the best Incarnum class to use? Totemist it seems?

[AmberVael]

Well, you can safely cross soulborn off your list, which does only leave Incarnate and Totemist.

In general I think I'd go for Incarnate, as it has better essentia progression and its soulmelds are more broadly useful. However, with the natural attack power that Totemist offers, you might be able to build a fairly compelling Totemist/Egoist combative build if you wanted to go that direction.

[Renen]

But... But... isnt totem chakra so good for non natural attack builds?
Also, would it be possible to get the awesome chakras like soul and heart before epic?

[Big Fau]

A majority of the Totemist's Totem Binds grant natural weapons, but Soul Manifester and Psion both have poor BAB. The penalties associated with natural weapons mean that being up front isn't a good idea.

Exception: Using the Ardent, alongside Practiced Manifester, is a good way to do a melee-focused Soul Manifester (as the Ardent has some buffs that really help). Actually, using the Ardent for any Psionic Theurge PrC is a good idea.

[Renen]

I will be going as psion, and will try not to go into melee ever. So I guess incarnate it is.

[Piggy Knowles]

Charming Veil is pretty insane as far as DC boosters go, giving you 1+essentia to your charm/compulsion powers. For that reason alone I'd consider a telepath/incarnate.

[Keld Denar]

There are some good non-weapon Totem binds. Phase Cloak, for example, is kinda neat. It's augmented Psionic Dim Door but with a bit shorter range.

[Piggy Knowles]

There are some good non-weapon Totem binds. Phase Cloak, for example, is kinda neat. It's augmented Psionic Dim Door but with a bit shorter range.

Phase Cloak's totem bind just gives you a poisonous bite attack. Its shoulders bind, on the other hand, is potentially the most gamebreaking of any soulmeld - you turn ethereal for any and all movement that exceeds 5'.

[Rubik]

Phase Cloak's totem bind just gives you a poisonous bite attack. Its shoulders bind, on the other hand, is potentially the most gamebreaking of any soulmeld - you turn ethereal for any and all movement that exceeds 5'.And best yet, if you have the Psionic Open Chakra power (in MoI) along with a few manifester level boosts (or pp cost reducers), you can bind the phase cloak to your shoulder's chakra by as early as level 7.

[Psyren]

But... But... isnt totem chakra so good for non natural attack builds?
Also, would it be possible to get the awesome chakras like soul and heart before epic?

Not with Soul Manifester. No PrCs actually advance chakra progression; they all have their own, and Soul Manifester never gets to Heart and Soul. The best you can do is Throat and Waist, and then only by augmenting Psionic Open Chakra far enough.

[Big Fau]

Phase Cloak's totem bind just gives you a poisonous bite attack. Its shoulders bind, on the other hand, is potentially the most gamebreaking of any soulmeld - you turn ethereal for any and all movement that exceeds 5'.

Actually, 10ft. And that isn't the broken part. The broken part is spamming the etherealness to try and trigger that 20% chance of getting a random Ethereal Plane encounter to harvest XP/Kill enemies (works best if you can reason with the random encounters, and given that a few of them are magical beasts a Totemist can indeed do it).

[Piggy Knowles]

Actually, 10ft.

Unless there was an errata...


When you use a move action to move at least five feet, you can become ethereal during the movement.

Ethereal is really hard to deal with - you've pretty much just got force effects. You are literally on another plane for that time. By level 9, totemists can pretty much ignore dungeons, scout anywhere, waltz into 99% of the buildings they please, etc. It has... kind of a significant impact on the game.

[Renen]

Charming Veil is pretty insane as far as DC boosters go, giving you 1+essentia to your charm/compulsion powers. For that reason alone I'd consider a telepath/incarnate.

Well, it seems that with that you can psionic dominate just about everything...
Lets see...
+7 Bonus from int
+2 bonus from Psionic Investment
+3 bonus from Veil
+2 bonus from spending 4 PP (having a ML of 12, getting extra 2 from Psionic Investment)
+4 bonus from power level
+10 Base
28 Will DC

At level 10... This will be hard to beat... And I am sure you can push that higher too...

[Piggy Knowles]

Well, it seems that with that you can psionic dominate just about everything...
Lets see...
+7 Bonus from int
+2 bonus from Psionic Investment
+3 bonus from Veil
+2 bonus from spending 4 PP (having a ML of 12, getting extra 2 from Psionic Investment)
+4 bonus from power level
+10 Base
28 Will DC

At level 10... This will be hard to beat... And I am sure you can push that higher too...

Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (a feat you should be taking anyhow) and an incarnum focus item will mean that's a +5 bonus from the veil at level 10 instead of a +3 bonus, for a Will DC 30 at level 10.

[Psyren]

Ethereal is really hard to deal with - you've pretty much just got force effects. You are literally on another plane for that time. By level 9, totemists can pretty much ignore dungeons, scout anywhere, waltz into 99% of the buildings they please, etc. It has... kind of a significant impact on the game.

I disagree - you're material when you come out, so you're rather easy to deal with. Very few things affect you while you're moving anyway; typically when monsters attack you, they do it when it's not your turn, and you're just standing there.

Sure you can walk through doors and such, but this doesn't let you know what's on the other side before you go, and if there's something nasty on the other side (like a deadly gas) you'll be vulnerable the moment you stop moving.

Also, you explicitly attract attention from other ethereals (e.g. ghosts) while you use this. It actually instructs the DM to roll on the ethereal encounters table each time you use it. This can have pretty nasty consequences.

[Piggy Knowles]

I disagree - you're material when you come out, so you're rather easy to deal with. Very few things affect you while you're moving anyway; typically when monsters attack you, they do it when it's not your turn, and you're just standing there.

Sure you can walk through doors and such, but this doesn't let you know what's on the other side before you go, and if there's something nasty on the other side (like a deadly gas) you'll be vulnerable the moment you stop moving.

Also, you explicitly attract attention from other ethereals (e.g. ghosts) while you use this. It actually instructs the DM to roll on the ethereal encounters table each time you use it. This can have pretty nasty consequences.

Not knowing what's happening on the other side is why I usually like to combine it with Mindsight via Shedu Crown, although admittedly that won't stop you from walking into deadly gas.

[Rubik]

Not knowing what's happening on the other side is why I usually like to combine it with Mindsight via Shedu Crown, although admittedly that won't stop you from walking into deadly gas.See, the fun part is that you don't have to move in a straight line. It's really easy to just jaunt in and see what's there for a second before about-facing and moving back out again.

It's no Burrowing Power + Touchsight combo, but it's still exceptionally useful.

Also, you can completely ignore things like Solid Fog and rough terrain, because you can just phase into another plane of reality altogether.

[edit] Oh, and basically anything else that isn't a [force] effect or a Dimension Lock spell.

[Keld Denar]

Phase Cloak's totem bind just gives you a poisonous bite attack. Its shoulders bind, on the other hand, is potentially the most gamebreaking of any soulmeld - you turn ethereal for any and all movement that exceeds 5'.

My bad. I was thinking Blink Shirt then...

[Renen]

So much stuff you can get by trading away 2 ML...