An Orc and Goblin game with human villains

[Sergeantbrother]

I was thinking about fantasy campaign ideas and thought about maybe running a game where the PC's are orcs, goblins, hobgoblis, kobolds, etc. They will not be portrayed as quite as evil as they often are, more like warlike barbarians or militant empires.

Then the villainous races of the campaign will be the ones that are normally good guys - humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, and gnomes. These demihumans would be portrayed in a more negative light than they normally are. made to seem exotic and dangerous from the perspective of the PC's and their culture.

I was wondering if anybody has ever done anything like this or has ideas on how to make the game interesting. Particularly in how to portray the normally "good" races in a way to make them seem evil, scary, and mysterious from the perspective of goblin, orc, hobgoblin, or kobold PC's.

[gibbo88]

Look for real-world examples of incoming Europeans interacting with the indigenous locals. Desecration of religious sites, taking over of hunting grounds (or mines in the case of Kobalds). Overly enthusiastic use of more advanced weapons/tactics (magic, cavalry) in removing the orcs/goblins/kobalds from their homes.

Look at the Goblins trying to establish a city in OoTS, most of them don't appear to be evil.

[Monss Meg]

Rember how the PC's treated those races, under normal play. And do that to them. did the paladin ever have any issues exterminating whole villages of them? also read Goblins: Life trough their eyes webcomic it dose a pretty good job showing what you are looking for.

[Mr Beer]

Rember how the PC's treated those races, under normal play. And do that to them. did the paladin ever have any issues exterminating whole villages of them?

This.

I would have the PCs chilling in their village and then have a rampaging group of typical "Good" adventurers frontally assault the place, hacking down goblin women and children while shouting things like "In the name of St Cuthbert!" and "Slay the evil doers!".

[Vitruviansquid]

There are a couple of approaches to this, but the best is really up to what being an orc, goblin, or whatever means in your imagination and at your table.

1. Probably the easiest approach is to make the conventionally good races the aggressors. Generally, we perceive the party that starts aggressions to be the "evil" side in a war, and all you have to do to make humans and elves evil is to have a story line where they are the ones invading the orcs' and goblins' land.

2. It might, however, be more effective to really think about the cultures of the races involved in your campaign. Start with a picture of the culture of your evil races, and then think about why they do the things they do, and what they would consider their cultural enemies. For instance, if your orcish culture had it be considered right and honorable to make a living off plunder, they would see a powerful neighboring human lord as a threat simply because they expect the strong to invade others, even if that human lord sees himself as bound by his own culture to not attack the orcish settlement unless he was attacked first.

In short, define the protagonists' culture, consider what would be threatening to them, and apply that to the antagonists.

[FatJose]

Maybe the savage tribes are settled on land/in ruins that was once holy elven/dwarven ground that had been abandoned for "reasons". Ofcourse, the humanoids have every right to take back their land even if they had left it neglected for millenia. So give them a warm welcome.

[Scow2]

Rember how the PC's treated those races, under normal play. And do that to them. did the paladin ever have any issues exterminating whole villages of them? also read Goblins: Life trough their eyes webcomic it dose a pretty good job showing what you are looking for.

Except that webcomic portrays Goblins as "Just another shade of Human", and strips out all traits of goblin culture and nature to victimize them. I'd use the narration from the first two Warcraft games instead.

Cultural displacement is a big motivation: Humanoids are encroaching on/have encroached on VERY important ancestral lands, and are desecrating it. The savage humanoid tribes lack the ability to get the resources to feed themselves, and will take what they need from Humanoids, who have claimed all the best and most productive lands.

Dehumanize people - avoid giving most of them names or personalities. Emphasize the communication barrier (You might want to add a "Monstrous Common" for all your races, or make Goblin be the new Common). Humans speak in harsh, staccato tones, while elves speak an unknowable, eldritch language that defies sanity. Dwarves speak in a doomlike chant that conjures terrors of the deep and cult-like mysticism.

Misrepresent body language to depict acts that are usually signs of hesitant trust or ventures of goodwill as veiled threats, patronization, and similarly negative behaviors (People don't 'smile' - they 'bare their teeth'.)

Play up the differences in the races:

Play up the paranoia of being a goblinoid, as well as the apathy of the humanoids toward them. NOTHING humanoid races do is innocent - every action they take is to screw over the goblinoids.

Hobgoblins have an ancient empire to recover, stolen from them by humans and dwarves long ago.

Kobolds - well, the common races defend Gnomes. You know - the guys who destroyed your race's greatest accomplishment and killed the greatest paragon of your kind merely as a joke? Races that wantonly slaughter your worthy masters for the 'crime' of living nearby and taking their due. And the races that don't even see you as anything more than a nuisance.

Orcs have a world to recover, by divine mandate. There can be no peace because humans are worthless nobodies, and elves worship the sissiest god of all sissies. It is your manly, divine duty to wipe them off the face of the earth.

[Serpentine]

I have a game like this, but with kobolds. The PCs are all that remains of a once-great mine of kobolds which has been almost completely wiped out by so-called "adventurers", and now they have to find a new safe place to rebuild. It's deliberately silly, though.

[erikun]

One big question that needs to be asked:
Are you planning on running an evil campaign, or not?

Because I could see two ways of going about this situation. Either the PCs are the orcs and goblins and are the evil ones, with the NPCs being the good humans/elves/tasty-bits that are fighting back, or the orcs and golbins are the semi-good ones and the humanoids are the cruel, evil-ish ones attacking quiet goblinoid villages.

You want to make sure that everyone in the game is on the same page, because otherwise you may end up with good-ish orcs and goblins alongside the one mass-murdering PC who thought that's what the game was about.

[FatJose]

Except that webcomic portrays Goblins as "Just another shade of Human", and strips out all traits of goblin culture and nature to victimize them. I'd use the narration from the first two Warcraft games instead.

Cultural displacement is a big motivation: Humanoids are encroaching on/have encroached on VERY important ancestral lands, and are desecrating it. The savage humanoid tribes lack the ability to get the resources to feed themselves, and will take what they need from Humanoids, who have claimed all the best and most productive lands.

Dehumanize people - avoid giving most of them names or personalities. Emphasize the communication barrier (You might want to add a "Monstrous Common" for all your races, or make Goblin be the new Common). Humans speak in harsh, staccato tones, while elves speak an unknowable, eldritch language that defies sanity. Dwarves speak in a doomlike chant that conjures terrors of the deep and cult-like mysticism.

Misrepresent body language to depict acts that are usually signs of hesitant trust or ventures of goodwill as veiled threats, patronization, and similarly negative behaviors (People don't 'smile' - they 'bare their teeth'.)

Play up the differences in the races:

Play up the paranoia of being a goblinoid, as well as the apathy of the humanoids toward them. NOTHING humanoid races do is innocent - every action they take is to screw over the goblinoids.

Hobgoblins have an ancient empire to recover, stolen from them by humans and dwarves long ago.

Kobolds - well, the common races defend Gnomes. You know - the guys who destroyed your race's greatest accomplishment and killed the greatest paragon of your kind merely as a joke? Races that wantonly slaughter your worthy masters for the 'crime' of living nearby and taking their due. And the races that don't even see you as anything more than a nuisance.

Orcs have a world to recover, by divine mandate. There can be no peace because humans are worthless nobodies, and elves worship the sissiest god of all sissies. It is your manly, divine duty to wipe them off the face of the earth.

This. All of this is awesome and on point. Love the smiling bit. (When you see an ape on tv smiling it pretty much means they're scared or agitated)

[Scow2]

Another thing to keep in mind about general differences between Orcs/Goblinoids and common humanoids is that Goblinoid bodies tend to have complex, busy geometries, with extremely uneven skin tones ranging over full spectrums, lots of erratic body hair, and bumps, creases, and other deals like that. They also tend to have more muted facial expressions.

In contrast, humanoids - and elves in particular - are blank, except their faces, which have deranged animation.

[Scowling Dragon]

I usually avoid doing this stuff. Im my mind just doing a switcheroo of Alignment isn't all that creative and the results can be just awful.

Instead try to write a good story with balanced and even characters.

Or go all out and have some fun killing some EVIL Orcs. :smallwink:

[BWR]

Pick up Orcs of Thar. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orcs_of_Thar)

[Sergeantbrother]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will consider each one.


One big question that needs to be asked:
Are you planning on running an evil campaign, or not?

I was thinking that the campaign would consist of shades of gray with good nd bad elements for both kinds of humanoids. Orcs, goblins, etc. would still be violent and savage in certain regards, but not universally evil as such. Likewise, elves, humans, dwarves, and the like would commit many atrocities against the PC races but old still have their humanity.


Another thing to keep in mind about general differences between Orcs/Goblinoids and common humanoids is that Goblinoid bodies tend to have complex, busy geometries, with extremely uneven skin tones ranging over full spectrums, lots of erratic body hair, and bumps, creases, and other deals like that. They also tend to have more muted facial expressions.

In contrast, humanoids - and elves in particular - are blank, except their faces, which have deranged animation.

Ah, this is great stuff and is what I am particularly interested in. The ways in which the races familiar to us can seem strange and alien to orcs, goblins, kobolds, and the like :)

[Joe the Rat]

I was thinking that the campaign would consist of shades of gray with good nd bad elements for both kinds of humanoids. Orcs, goblins, etc. would still be violent and savage in certain regards, but not universally evil as such. Likewise, elves, humans, dwarves, and the like would commit many atrocities against the PC races but old still have their humanity.

My advice was going to be play it morally gray, but it seems you intend that already. Humans make the best "primary villain" race - they are the most expansionist, empire-building of the lot.

[pres_man]

If you are interested in a bit of reading, I might suggest you try to find a copy of The Last Ringbearer online. It might give you some ideas.