PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 class The deadite, a good necromancer



tjcross
2013-07-26, 07:09 PM
Hey Guys, this is a class I made a few months back and I find it interesting, however due to the raise dead spell being a lot stronger than I expected this class can easily become OP with DM supervision.
I use a Class Generation kit to keep my classes balanced, as is obvious this class is heavily devoted to dealing with undead and utilizing their own when physical combat is to be done.
Edited thanks to Cheiromancers' verbal concern
Also concerning the construction kit I do use Rumkin just because it's fairly easy to wrap my head around.

The Deadite

Hitdie: d6 [10]
Weapon Proficiency:Simple+ Scythe[11]
Armor Proficiency: None
Class Skills: 11 [11]
Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge [Death and undead.], Knowledge [Religion], Proffesion,Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Skills/level: 4+int [34]
Attack Progression: Low[10]
Save Progression: Fort: High, Reflex: Low, Will:High. [28]
Important Stat: Wisdom
Point total: 102
Restriction: A Deadite will never under any circumstance raise a body as undead without the permission of the body's soul. They will always spend atleast one round to talk to the previous occupant of the body and ask their question. A body raised without permission gains no bonuses from the Deadite's abilities.[weak restriction -4]
A Deadite can NOT be chaotic or evil. A deadite lives his life with a great deal of respect for the dead and those whom are hurt by loss. Aswell they are so accustomed to rituals that they always have some value of law within them. A Chaotic Deadite loses all powers, and Evil deadite can not level any further. [Major [chaotic] Moderate [evil] Restriction -14]
Restriction points: -4

[89pt]
Spellcaster Abilities
Deadites are allowed to cast spells from the Death, Healing and Destruction domains. [27 total spells small]
At 20th level they have 6/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5 total spells castable use Clerics spell progression including domain spell as a generic spell slot.
They must focus their energies each day to prepare spells.
Reduced learning.
[cp = abc+s/p x tpm + ak x MM]
= 5 + 50 * [1*0.45*0.8]
Spell ability cost:29
[128pt]
Special Abilities
1st Level [32pt]
Speak with Dead: Deadites have spent so much time with the dead that they have the ability to speak to the recently dead as per the Speak with dead spell however the caster is always considered to have the same alignment as the corpse. They can do this once per day/level. [4pt]

Turn and Rebuke undead: Deadites know well the powers that can control the undead. Through their practice they can choose whether to Turn/Destroy or Rebuke/Command undead as a cleric of the same level. They use Wisdom rather than Charisma for this ability.[16pt]

Ritual of Peace: Deadites have the inherant ability to bring a body to eternal rest through ritualistic preparation of the bodies. A Deadite preforming this ritual on a body will stop the body from being raised as an undead and gives the body a ten percent chance of surviving a proper ressurection. The cost of the ritual is a hundred gold per body plus fifty gold per hit-die of the being in life. The ritual takes five minutes plus an additional minute per body in the ritual. This involves chanting, burning of incense and massaging oils into the body or soaking the bones depending on how bad the decay is. As well the ritual slows any further decay by 90% and lengthens the limit of resurrection by ten fold Example: A body that can only has one day left to be ressurected, the ritual will allow a ten day window rather than just one day. [8pt]

Caring hands: Deadites work with the dead but also know how to heal the living. Their hands are stable even under the worst scenarios and their knowledge of medicines is extensive. They get a +4 to heal checks and may use healing to tend undead creatures or to prepare dead bodies for a burial. A successful heal check will double time it takes for a body to decay. [4pt]

2nd Level[8pt]
Undead Favour: A Deadites respect for the undead comes through with their motions and tone of voice. If they do not attack non-sentient undead will not attack them attack them, Sentient undead will treat them like a friend and as long as the Deadite do not act as a threat the sentient undead will not do anything about them. When conversing with an undead the Deadite is considered to have a charisma of 18 or at +2 of their current charisma, whichever is higher. Please note this only applies to the Deadite and not the party.[8pt]

3rd Level[8pt]
Sense Undead: As the Deadite has gone through their existance learning more of death, life and undeath the Deadite has gained the power to detect undeath with ease. With a round of concentration they can cast the “Detect Undead” spell at will. [8pt]

4th level[4pt]
Death's Aura: The Deadite has spent so much time around the dead that they seem to radiate a feeling of danger and hopelessness. When they wish to they gain a +4 to any intimidation roll against a person who is not commonly around the dead. Immune subjects are grave-tenders, necromancers and the like.[4pt]

5th
Resist undead: The deadite has gained a strong resistant against the undeads abilties, they get a +2 against all saves against undead ability or necromancy spell.
6th level[6pt]
Empowered Undead: All undead commanded by a Deadite gain an additional hit-die. The hit die limit of control does not count this bonus hit die. If the creature only gets a fraction of a hit die then add the hit die to the the group of such creatures equal to one hit die rather than the individual creature. Example: a creature has ¼ hit die. A group of four would gain an extra hit die. Damage to the swarm is taken from the extra hit die first before individual creatures begin getting harmed.[4pt]

Death's Shroud: The Deadite has spent so much time working with the dead that they may take on the aura of the dead. Sense life spells will not detect them however a Sense Undead spell will. [2pt]

7th[2pt]
Extra Turning: The Deadite has gained the strength and knowledge to use his turning and rebuking abilities an extra four times a day as per the Extra Turning perk. [2pt]

8th [2pt]
Embalmed: The Deadite has spent so much time working with the undead that they have tapped into the secrets of embalming. By applying these secrets to themselves they gain a +1 to constitution.[2pt]

9th [4pt]
Bone throwing: The deadite has spent so much time working with the undead that they have learned the technique of divination through bone tossing. Twice per day they may bone throw to cast one of the following spells [4pt]:

Identify
Detect Secret Doors
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Scrying

10th[2pt]
Empowered Turning: The deadites specialization in the undead has caused them to know just how to affect the undead. The Deadite now turns/destroys/rebukes and controls undead as if they were one level higher [1pt]
Improved Resist undead: The deadite has become more powerful in warding off the undead and gain a further +2 to undead abilities and necromantic spells [4pt]

11th[3pt]
True Undeath: The Deadite has learned the true craft of raising the dead. A body raised by a deadite of this level will never rot, infact if the organs are intact they will seem to be alive though they still give off no heat and a doctors eye given time would see that the undead is in deed dead rather than a sickly mute. [1pt]

Detect Life: The Deadite has moved through the world enough that he has grasped the energy of the dying rather than just the dead. They can now at will see this aura just as they can sense dead. [2pt]

12th
Life Eater: The Deadite has learned from the undead well and now hold the ability to attack a foe's constitution. Instead of attacking they can choose to attempt a touch attack and if they hit that drain 1d6+half wisdom modifier of constitution fortitude save for half equal to 10+half level + wisdom modifier from their target temporary and four times the constitution damaged temporary hitpoints. [2pt]

Empower Undead: All undead commanded by a Deadite gain an additional hit-die. The hit die limit of control does not count this bonus hit die. If the creature only gets a fraction of a hit die then add the hit die to the the group of such creatures equal to one hit die rather than the individual creature. Example: a creature has ¼ hit die. A group of four would gain an extra hit die. Damage to the swarm is taken from the extra hit die first before individual creatures begin getting harmed.[2pt]
13th
Enhanced bone throwing: The Deadite gains an additional 2 throws. [2pt]

14th
Extra Turning: The Deadite has improved even further in their turning or rebuking of the undead and gain an additional four turns/rebukes a day.[1]

15th
Improved resist undead: The Deadite gains a further +2 verses undead abilities and necromantic spells.
16th

Death's Hand: The Deadite has learned well from the undead. Once per day they may instead of attacking make a touch attack against an opponent. If they hit they will drain a level from the target permanently unless the level is recovered through normal means such as a wish spell. [2]

17th
Enhanced bone throwing: The deadite gains an additional 2 throws [2pt]

18th
Empower Undead: All undead commanded by a Deadite gain an additional hit-die. The hit die limit of control does not count this bonus hit die. If the creature only gets a fraction of a hit die then add the hit die to the the group of such creatures equal to one hit die rather than the individual creature. Example: a creature has ¼ hit die. A group of four would gain an extra hit die. Damage to the swarm is taken from the extra hit die first before individual creatures begin getting harmed.[2pt]
19th

20th
Transcend: The Deadite sheds their mortal form and become undead themselves. Their form is up to them but they are treated as undead for all spells. However they can not be turned or rebuked. Usually a Good Deadite will normally appear completely normal, not rotting or decaying. A Neutral Deadite is hard to tell what they will choose though common choices seem to be robed zombies and skeletons. Any undead template chosen requires DM approval and if approved the DM can chose to add any expense to a ritual to become the undead form.[2pt]

Empowered Turning: The Deadite has become incredibly skilled in turning or rebuking undead and gains a further +1 to their level when using their turning or rebuking abilities [1pt]



Total Points: 215

Lore
Alignments: All Deadites are either of good or neutral alignments. Good Deadites wish to bring peace to the world by aiding the dead in accepting their fate, and helping the living to accept the death of loved ones. Neutral Deadites merely wish to aid in the balance of life and death.

Religion: A deadite can worship any neutral or good god and Neutral Deadites can choose to worship Nerull. Most choose to worship Wee Jas due to her connection with death and her neutrality.

The Deadites view of Death: Deadites do not fear death but see it as the next step in a cosmic life. All things die and to attempt immortality is foolish. Deadites are not immune to rage or sorrow brought from unjust death but a natural death will usually bring a small bit of joy to a deadite as the dead died peacefully.

Enemies of the Deadite: The main enemy of the deadite is the necromancer. Deadites see Necromancers as not only gravely disrespectful of the dead but also of the balance. The Deadite sees the Necromancer as a plague of misery and sorrow and will stop at nothing to track down and kill necromancers. They will Never align themselves with a necromancer no matter the sway. This doesn't only apply to necromancers, anyone who uses a create undead spell on an unwilling corpse will be considered a necromancer in the Deadites eyes.

Quote: “Peace be with you brother, SO JUST DIE ALREADY!!!”-Liam Ditch

Notable Deadites
Liam Ditch- Raider of the Necron Fortress
Edgeworth Grim- Wandering grave-digger.
Deadites in adventures: Deadites are not commonly set up to adventure, however some find that their area is well and move on to bring balance and peace to other areas. The main exception is dealing with necromancers. A necromancer threat will cause any nearby Deadite to drop their duties to go after it.

Cheiromancer
2013-07-27, 10:37 AM
I find it hard to read the class as presented. Some formatting would be nice, even if you don't want to make a table. Bold face, indentation.

I don't understand the point values at all. I don't know what the standard classes cash out as, nor do I know how reliable the system is.

How would this class compare to existing classes? Dread Necromancer, Master of Shrouds, Cleric, etc.?

Hanuman
2013-07-27, 01:07 PM
What is that point system you are using?

Is it this? http://rumkin.com/reference/dnd/media/classconstruction.pdf

Fascinating, I've been working on something like this for about 6 months built into a class.

Amechra
2013-07-27, 02:01 PM
I would suggest against using the Class Construction Kit to balance anything. It is pretty notorious for being absolute garbage, due to the costs not being at all balanced with each-other.

Seriously, you need more points to build a Monk than a Druid. Meaning you could build a Druid, then give it a buncha extra goodies, and the system would say that it is balanced with the Monk.

Yep, one of the strongest classes in the game, with extra goodies, is balanced out with one of the weakest, according to this system.

I suggest you instead look around at other homebrew, paying close attention to the stuff focused on necromancy, and go from there.

Hanuman
2013-07-27, 04:40 PM
It looks like that's due to it saying that the animal companion is a one-time ability and not an outstanding ability (which it is).

Another slight issue is that it tries to assume the classes are inherently balanced to each-other, which isn't very true.

It also kind of undervalues spells and overemphasizes weapon and armor proficiencies by flat costing them, comparing full proficiencies to be 60% of a full caster with no scaling, that's ridiculous.

The way I've worked it is that you buy BAB and HP, then as a periodic passive bonus to buying them you unlock selected single weapons and armors to be proficient with.

tjcross
2013-07-27, 05:16 PM
I would suggest against using the Class Construction Kit to balance anything. It is pretty notorious for being absolute garbage, due to the costs not being at all balanced with each-other.

Seriously, you need more points to build a Monk than a Druid. Meaning you could build a Druid, then give it a buncha extra goodies, and the system would say that it is balanced with the Monk.

Yep, one of the strongest classes in the game, with extra goodies, is balanced out with one of the weakest, according to this system.

I suggest you instead look around at other homebrew, paying close attention to the stuff focused on necromancy, and go from there.

I thank you for the advice however I tend to use the Construction class as a way to know where to start. A blank sheet is the absolute hardest challenge and research makes me feel like i'm stealing from other peoples creativity as well as I have to evaluate each class I research to see if it's balanced so making one class would involve figuring out where the balance is each time and it would burn out my passion quickly.

I would be very interested in your opinion on the class if you would not mind giving it.

tjcross
2013-07-27, 05:19 PM
What is that point system you are using?

Is it this? http://rumkin.com/reference/dnd/media/classconstruction.pdf

Fascinating, I've been working on something like this for about 6 months built into a class.

Yes you've named the class constructor i've used. I spent about two weeks on this class building it, then removing or adding to it as I felt was required, Play tested a 7th level and he was good to play in my opinion not too powerful despite his undead and I strongly suggest the DM look over any undead before allowing them, the easiest way is for the DM to say the spirit is unwilling to let their body be raised.

Amechra
2013-07-27, 05:32 PM
I'd suggest that you stick a table up there; makes it a lot easier for people to read the stuff, you know?

And really, there is no shame in "stealing" mechanics from another class; it keeps you from having to reinvent the wheel, and it helps you see what works.

And as long as you are aware that the Construction Kit is really just a starting point, you should be fine.

I do have to say, Undead Favour is very strong; if I'm reading it right, Undead start as friendly towards you, which means that you can, with a rather easy Diplomacy check, get them to be Helpful. Which basically means that you aren't going to end up fighting any Undead that often.

Otherwise, I notice a general "divination" flavor, which is rather nice; you're going to have to format the thing, though, before I give any more of an in-depth critique. I'm sick, and I'm not in the mood to dig through unformatted stuff.

Hanuman
2013-07-27, 07:02 PM
What he means is this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313

and in more detail:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205677


I generally start a class by copy pasting a class posting format template, making a rough draft on the fluff, create 1 or 2 mechanics the class circles around, then try and balance HP,BAB,Saves,Skillpoints with what I generally want, then work within that to make the class features to fill the levels to manage the class' archetype.

After that I start polishing, looking for balance reference datapoints, and finally I figure out how the mechanics should go and what levels they should go at.

Also you could draw feedback to your class by adding PEACH in the title.

tjcross
2013-08-21, 08:06 PM
I'd suggest that you stick a table up there; makes it a lot easier for people to read the stuff, you know?

And really, there is no shame in "stealing" mechanics from another class; it keeps you from having to reinvent the wheel, and it helps you see what works.

And as long as you are aware that the Construction Kit is really just a starting point, you should be fine.

I do have to say, Undead Favour is very strong; if I'm reading it right, Undead start as friendly towards you, which means that you can, with a rather easy Diplomacy check, get them to be Helpful. Which basically means that you aren't going to end up fighting any Undead that often.

Otherwise, I notice a general "divination" flavor, which is rather nice; you're going to have to format the thing, though, before I give any more of an in-depth critique. I'm sick, and I'm not in the mood to dig through unformatted stuff.

The undead favour only applies to the Deadite, aswell that's kind of the point of this class. They are the "Anti-Necromancer/Anti-undead" Class. Here's the thing though, if the party is in the way of the undeads goal best case scenario is that the undead will basically tell the deadite that if they stand aside they will not be harmed. Worst case the deadite will be lumped in with the party and considered a hostile. Thanks for the imput and once I figure out tables I'll be reformatting this.