Invisibility has no save to disbelieve

[ideasmith]

Assume a creature or object is under the affect of the spell invisibility.

By RAW, when does studying the target carefully or interacting with it fail to reveal it to be invisible.

(Vadskye got me curious.)

[Nettlekid]

There's no save to disbelieve invisibility because the thing really is invisible. Unlike, say, some kind of fake wall or illusory cloak which hides something but would allow a will save to disbelieve with scrutiny, the Invisibility spell actually does render the subject invisible. It's not a trick of the light, it's just...that's how it is. Similar to Displacement and Blur. To disbelieve Invisibility would be like disbelieving that the Transmuter in front of you Polymorphed into a Troll.

[Psyren]

The save on invisibility is for the subject - this is why it carries the [harmless] tag. In other words, if you tried to make an unwilling target invisible, they could attempt to resist your spell.

[CRtwenty]

Assume a creature or object is under the affect of the spell invisibility.

By RAW, when does studying the target carefully or interacting with it fail to reveal it to be invisible.

(Vadskye got me curious.)

Invisibility actually makes the target invisible. So disbelief isn't something applicable in this case.

[Arkturas]

"I want to use my disbelief save on that Fireball."

:Player has been hit by DM book:

[CRtwenty]

"I want to use my disbelief save on that Fireball."

:Player has been hit by DM book:

DM: "Unfortunately the Fireball believes in you. :smallamused:"

[Aegis013]

"I want to use my disbelief save on that Fireball."


You succeed! It was a Shadow Evocated by a Shadowcrafter at 120% reality! You take 20% more damage!

[Kalaska'Agathas]

You succeed! It was a Shadow Evocated by a Shadowcrafter at 120% reality! You take 20% more damage!

One of the few builds where the player will mutter "please make the save, please make the save," under their breath for hostile NPCs.

[Nettlekid]

One of the few builds where the player will mutter "please make the save, please make the save," under their breath for hostile NPCs.

Is there any way to willingly decrease a save of a spell, for a case such as that?

[Psyren]

Is there any way to willingly decrease a save of a spell, for a case such as that?

Give yourself ability damage/drain/penalties?

[Nettlekid]

Give yourself ability damage/drain/penalties?

I should have said, "without ruining other aspects of your spellcasting." It would be nice to somehow impose a -5 DC penalty on the saves of your realer-than-reality illusions, if you didn't lose the ability to cast them in the first place.

[ryu]

Tell your party ahead of time to scream it's an illusion whenever you cast to give a massive circumstance bonus to the save.:smallcool:

[Rubik]

Wear a big hat with a magic mouth that screams "It's an illusion! Time to disbelieve!" every time you cast a spell. In multiple languages. That, or a robe covered in "Illusionist!" Again, in multiple languages.

[TuggyNE]

Wear a big hat with a magic mouth that screams "It's an illusion! Time to disbelieve!" every time you cast a spell. In multiple languages. That, or a robe covered in "Illusionist!" Again, in multiple languages.

That probably works best if your specialist banned Illusion. :smallamused: "The best illusionist is one who never casts an illusion spell", or something.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

That probably works best if your specialist banned Illusion. :smallamused: "The best illusionist is one who never casts an illusion spell", or something.

Nah, the best illusionist is one whose illusions are more real than reality itself.

[Tvtyrant]

Nah, the best illusionist is one whose illusions are more real than reality itself.

The best illusionists are Dvati using Mirror Image. They can really never be sure if they hit you :D

[bot]

Assume a creature or object is under the affect of the spell invisibility.

By RAW, when does studying the target carefully or interacting with it fail to reveal it to be invisible.

(Vadskye got me curious.)

Reason for it is because invisibility is part of the glamer subschool and not a figment. Glamers can't be disbelived.

[TuggyNE]

Reason for it is because invisibility is part of the glamer subschool and not a figment. Glamers can't be disbelived.

That's not actually true; there are a lot of glamers with Will disbelief. For example, misdirection, hallucinatory terrain, disguise self, screen, magic aura, veil.

[Drachasor]

To clarify the answer to the OP: There's no disbelief saving throw on Invisibility and some other illusions because the "Saving Throw:" line does not have it.

A disbelief save is something that's is unique to illusions. Since only illusions can have it what it means is explained under the "Illusion" subsection in the Magic section. Just because it is unique to illusions doesn't mean all illusions have this kind of save. It must still be explicitly indicated.

[ideasmith]

I apologize for the horribly distracting thread title.

I will be starting a new thread with a more suitable title, so feel free to continue your discussion.