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View Full Version : [3.5e] need help with evil gestalt (bard/evil paladin)



Kuzon
2013-07-26, 11:08 PM
long story short i've been invited to play in a level 15 gestalt game wherein we're a bunch of bard gestalts who've gotten so disgustingly (in)famous that we're going on the most brutal of trans-planar tours (also this is all a big ploy by asmodeus to get more souls off our fans or something).

currently i'm thinking something along the lines of a bard/(evil) paladin (not to be confused with blackguard).

the aim is to be a major jack of all trades (he's got his share of arcane and divine spells, lots of skills via bardic knack and jack of all trades (from complete adventurer, iirc).

I'm also hoping to have a small-but-elite group of cohorts/minions (preferably 1, 3 at most) to order as needed in and out of combat, preferably undead for ease of maintenance/healing/buffing (via dirgesinger PrC or the requiem feat?). i note off the top of my head i can gain some of this type via the leadership/undead leadership feats, the pale master ability, etc.

I realize I'm asking a lot (being such a red mage will be difficult, I know, but I'm not aiming to be totally spectacular at any one thing, just decently capable of everything)

I'm looking for advice/suggestions/critiques on how to go about this (or something resembling this), as I'm mostly a PF player and the number of 3.5 books is pretty dizzying (though it's tryig its level best to catch up)--I've only just started looking over the libris mortis.
The only "banned" books are the book of vile darkness and the book of exalted deeds, and bits of those are still allowed by the DM on a case-by-case basis.

I'm in no rush, as I have about a month to build the character and get it all finished up, but i'd like to have it finished and out of the way without being a last-minute thing, obviously.

EDIT: clarified, i was mixed up on the banned books

Feralventas
2013-07-27, 02:55 AM
Banned books are the book of Vile Darkness I understood, but did you mean the Book of Exalted Deeds or is there some other evil tome I should be on the lookout for?

Leadership is an easy way to get a Cohort, but cannot be taken in the same character build as Undead Leadership, though you can just build your cohort with Tomb Tainted Soul or some such.

If you're allowed to shunt the level adjustment to one side or the other of the Gestalt, then the Death Knight template might fit quite nicely for your evil Paladin side, and would grant you a nice mount in addition to a bunch of other valuable abilities. This mount functions a lot like a Paladin mount, and can therefore function as a Tank or flight/mobility option depending on what you build and are allowed to use.

You can stack Undead Leadership as a Thrallheard to get a 2nd set of leadership, but if you're set on Bard//Paladin, then that won't work.

You could look into Cohort's Cohort type thing, though I'd advise being careful, as you're likely to get books tossed at you this way. Cohort as a PF Gravewalker Witch would also get an undead minion that keys off their level while you take Animal Cohort feat for another animal tank or scout, though check and make sure you can get an Animal Cohort as well as standard cohort; not sure if they stack.

At 9th level, the Dragon Cohort option comes up in either Dragon Magic or Draconomicon or Races of the Dragon and I don't feel like looking up which one it is, but Dragons tend to be pretty damn powerful generalists in their own right as well, and you may be able to grant them PC class levels if your leadership is high enough that you can use one of the smaller ones and have HD left over in their limit.

You have a Caster Level, so taking Craft (Golem) from the Monster Manual might be worthwhile as you'd be able to sink your wealth into more servitors for your purposes. There's a lot of constructs and golems; variety enough to make the feat worth it.

Speaking of crafting feats; when in doubt, Craft Wondrous Item. Probably the most versitile feat in the game if you have down-time and money.

Kuzon
2013-07-28, 09:56 PM
okay, after much deliberation with the GM and other players, my build has been somewhat collected, and currently i'm thinking:

silver-browed human

Bard side (must have 10 levels in either bard or a bard-boosting PrCs, on DM's orders):
bard 6-8 / sublime chord 2 / seeker of song 2 / ??? X

Paladin side:
paladin (of tyranny) 3-10 / blackguard 3-5 / ??? X

possible dips may include cleric, marshal, and dragon devotee

reasoning:
bard for bardyness, sublime chord to stack CL with another arcane class (i'm kinda thinking necromancer wizard), seeker of the song for dual-bard performances at once.

paladin 10 would be for the blackguard undead minion, if there's no alternative available, and blackguard itself is for the cha-to-saves and the minion (so might be given the axe because the feat tax is a bit hefty unless i go down the ultracleave line)


some feats im considering are:
power attack / cleave / improved sunder (blackguard prereqs)
initiate of milil + devoted performer
draconic heritage (something for sonic, suggestions?) + draconic aura
snowflake wardance
jack of all trades
requiem

not sure what else if anything.


on the skeletal minion want of mine, ive noticed another two that might serve my purposes: blackguard gets one if you've 9-10 levels in paladin when you take the class, and the necromancer variant wizard from UA gives one as a sort-of familiar straight form the get-go.

unfortunately, the blackguard one seems to suck quite hard, and given my levels thus far im not sure how to get the wizard one in to any degree of effectiveness.

is there any way to make the wizard one stack/scale with/replace my paladin mount or fiendish familiar from blackguard?