Creating a necromancy focused Cleric tank. How is my build/strategy?

[Randomocity132]

Running a campaign with a DM that wants to see how strong the party can get, so we're starting at level 10 with some freedom on how we create our characters. I'm rolling a Lawful Evil Human Cleric for the first time because our party doesn't have any other class that can cast a healing spell, but I'm primarily the main tank. We have 2 secondary tanks (a samurai and a barbarian) but I'm also trying to focus on undead minions providing extra tanks for the group. Liberal usage of Animate Dead for my main horde, and Summon Undead (Heroes of Horror) for those times when I need more. All of these stats and items have already been approved by the DM.


Alchemical Silver Morningstar +1 (+1 to hit) [-1/silver +1/magic damage]
Dwarven Plate (Damage reduc 3) [Total AC 8]
Ring of Protection +2 (deflection +2)
Periapt of Wisdom +2
Heavy Steel Shield +2 (enhancement +2) [Total AC 4]
Belt of Dwarvenkind (+2 Con, +2 saves, 60 ft Darkvision, Dwarven Language)

With all stat changes applied
Str – 18
Dex – 13
Con – 20
Wis – 20
Cha – 14
Int – 14

102 HP
AC of 27 with Magic Vestment

Will – 14
Ref – 6
Fort – 14

Skills
Concentration – 18
Spellcraft – 15
Knowledge Religion – 15
Knowledge The Planes – 15
Diplomacy – 14


Feats (mostly from Libris Mortis)

False Prophet - You can spontaneously convert prepared spells into either Inflict or Cure spells of the same level.

Improved Toughness - You gain a number of hit points equal to your current Hit Dice. Each time you gain a Hit Die (such as by gaining a level), you gain 1 additional hit point. If you lose a Hit Die (such as by losing a level), you lose 1 hit point permanently.

Hardened Flesh - Every undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +2 natural armor bonus to Armor Class.

Corpsecrafter - Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit points per Hit Die.

Augment Undead - Undead raised by a necromancy spell gain 1 (plus 1 for every 3 caster levels) hit point per Hit Die. This effect stacks with other abilities that increase the health of resurrected dead.


DEATHBOUND DOMAIN
Granted Power: Your limit for creating undead animated
with spells increases to three times your caster level instead of
the normal two times caster level.
Deathbound Domain Spells
1 Chill of the Grave†: Ray causes cold damage.
2 Blade of Pain and Fear†: Creates blade of gnashing teeth.
3 Fangs of the Vampire King†: Grow vampire fangs.
4 Wither Limb†: Cause enemy’s limbs to wither.
5 Revive Undead†M: Restores undeath to undead that was destroyed up to 1 day/level ago.
6 Awaken Undead†X: Grant sentience to otherwise mindless undead.
7 Avasculate†: Reduce foe to half hp and stun.
8 Avascular Mass†: Reduce foe to half hp and stun, entangle in 20-ft. radius from victim.
9 Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level.

UNDEATH DOMAIN
Granted Power: You gain Extra Turning as a bonus feat.
Undeath Domain Spells
1 Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft.
2 DesecrateM: Fills area with negative energy, making undead stronger.
3 Animate DeadM: Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
4 Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
5 Circle of DeathM: Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures.
6 Create UndeadM: Creates ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
7 Control Undead: Undead don’t attack you while under your command.
8 Create Greater UndeadM: Create shadows, wraiths, specters, or devourers.
9 Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.


Any advice for build / combat strategy / good spells for a cleric to prepare?

[Randomocity132]

....bump?

I've only started using the forums yesterday, so I'm not sure on the protocol for trying to refresh a thread because I made it at like 2:30 AM.

[Verditude]

The Bone Knight prestige class from 5 Nations is something you could look into if you want a tanky cleric. It also has cool necromantic flavor and advances your rebuke undead.

[Randomocity132]

The Bone Knight prestige class from 5 Nations is something you could look into if you want a tanky cleric. It also has cool necromantic flavor and advances your rebuke undead.

Would you happen to know where I could find a detail of the Bone Knight's stats online?

Edit: Nevermind, I think I found it.

[karkus]

Necropolitan.

Command a Vampire.

Start Vamping >4th level charcters.

Repeat step three ∞ times.

Only send out the "bottom tier" of Vampires at any given time; that is, don't risk the unlives of Vampires that have other Vampires, only the ones without spawn.

That's all there is to it.

Okay, so you shouldn't actively try to break the game, but you should definitely use spawn-creating undead, like Mohrgs and Wights. And always remember to be careful when doing so, because if they die, you lose control of their spawn.

[Randomocity132]

Necropolitan.


Is this a race or a class? When I'm looking for the class, all I see is a template to be applied.

[Norin]

Is this a race or a class? When I'm looking for the class, all I see is a template to be applied.

It's a "monster" entry in Libris Mortis. The entry has a template you can add to humanoid or monstrous humanoid.

It's a playable undead race that kind of reminds me of what ive heard about WoW undeads.

[Randomocity132]

Ah, ok. Assuming our party has to be made up of living creatures, any other suggestions?

[Urpriest]

Ah, ok. Assuming our party has to be made up of living creatures, any other suggestions?

The Necropolitan part is actually separate from the rest of the advice. Basically, you should figure out if your DM is ok with you controlling undead that can control spawn, and what sorts of limits you want to place on that.

Unless your DM is averse to it, I would swap out False Prophet and Improved Toughhness for Extend Spell and Persistent Spell, and perhaps either Augment Undead or Hardened Flesh (where did you get Augment Undead, by the way?) for Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. You've got the Undeath Domain for Extra Turning, that along with a Nightstick and a Reliquary Holy Symbol or a boost to Cha will let you Persist two spells every day for free without having to increase the slot. I recommend Divine Power to make your more tanky, Righteous Might for the same, or Mass Lesser Vigor and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful in order to buff your party. Regardless, focus on healing with wands out of combat unless you're Persisting Mass Lesser Vigor.

[123456789blaaa]

K's Revised Necromancer Handbook (with notes)
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2733.0)
The above is a pretty good guide (and the currently most up-to-date version so far).

[Barsoom]

A little-known trivia bit, that you may be aware of, but if not, you want to learn now rather than be surprised later: Summon Undead is not a Necromancy spell :smalleek: and therefore doesn't interact with the Corpsecrafter feats.

[Grayson01]

Well that's just dumb.....


A little-known trivia bit, that you may be aware of, but if not, you want to learn now rather than be surprised later: Summon Undead is not a Necromancy spell :smalleek: and therefore doesn't interact with the Corpsecrafter feats.

[Randomocity132]

A little-known trivia bit, that you may be aware of, but if not, you want to learn now rather than be surprised later: Summon Undead is not a Necromancy spell :smalleek: and therefore doesn't interact with the Corpsecrafter feats.

Oh I know. But that's fair. The summon undead are just fodder for when I don't have any actual reanimated dead with me. Something to help me out. Temp workers, sort of.

[Randomocity132]

I would swap out False Prophet and Improved Toughhness for Extend Spell and Persistent Spell, and perhaps either Augment Undead or Hardened Flesh (where did you get Augment Undead, by the way?) for Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell.

Book-keeper's big book of feats. It's a mishmash compilation. I thought Divine Metamagics were like, really feat intensive or complicated to use? I had been averse to using any.

[Jeff the Green]

Book-keeper's big book of feats. It's a mishmash compilation. I thought Divine Metamagics were like, really feat intensive or complicated to use? I had been averse to using any.

Not really. It's feat (and dip) intensive to really optimize it as you want to get three pools, and that requires being a good azurin cleric with a dip into Death Delver and a level of Sacred Exorcist.

However, if you don't care about persisting more than two or three spells a day (which is plenty), it only requires four feats: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), and Extra Turning. You get Extra Turning from the Undeath domain. With Charisma 14 (+2 attempts), a +4 Charisma item (+2), a reliquary holy symbol (+2 [DMM is a divine feat, and you should have Knowledge(religion) ranks anyway]) and Extra Turning (+4), and a Night Stick (+4) you have 14 attempts per day and can DMM Persist two spells a day. Or throw Extend Spell on too to have four spells persisted but with higher level slots.

[Randomocity132]

and can DMM Persist two spells a day. Or throw Extend Spell on too to have four spells persisted but with higher level slots.

What spells would I want to be persisting?

[Barsoom]

Divine Power is a classic. Righteous Might, if you don't mind being Large all the time. Divine Favor, can't go wrong with +3 to attacks and damage all the time. Elation is nice, but it's from BoED, not sure how well it meshes with necromancy. Mass Lesser Vigor to make sure no one in the party dies, like, ever.

[Randomocity132]

Divine Power is a classic. Righteous Might, if you don't mind being Large all the time. Divine Favor, can't go wrong with +3 to attacks and damage all the time. Elation is nice, but it's from BoED, not sure how well it meshes with necromancy. Mass Lesser Vigor to make sure no one in the party dies, like, ever.

That sounds pretty strong, but unfortunately I'm pretty much needing to go False Prophet since no one else in the party can cast any kind of healing. Yeah, I know, it's left to the friggin necromancy cleric to do cleanup healing, but what are ya gonna do?

I could swap Hardened Flesh and/or Improved Toughness for something, though. I really only took Improved Toughness since I didn't roll well on my hit dice. What can I do with 2 feats?

[Barsoom]

If you persist mass lesser vigor, your party has Fast Healing all the bloody time.

[Randomocity132]

If you persist mass lesser vigor, your party has Fast Healing all the bloody time.

I mean that's good and all, but at level 10, 1 hit point per round is almost negligible.

[Barsoom]

100 hit points in 10 minutes. Its negligible in-combat, but still unlimited out-of-combat healing, so your party always starts a new combat at 100% health. If you ever need emergency healing in real time, just get a few scrolls.

[Urpriest]

I mean that's good and all, but at level 10, 1 hit point per round is almost negligible.

At level 10, 4d8+10 is also negligible, though. Unless you've really optimized healing, you won't be healing meaningfully until you can cast Heal, and that feat doesn't affect Heal.

Edit: The point of 1 per round is it's all day, so you can just rest 5min between fights to heal 50 hit points.

[Norin]

Also, wands?

[karkus]

The Necropolitan part is actually separate from the rest of the advice.

Except for the fact that OP can now hang out in a crypt for however many centuries he wants while his infinite army grows.

The Necropoiltan part was based on dying of old age eventually. :smalltongue:

Also, if you Extend (or, dare I say, Persist (http://dndtools.eu/feats/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/persistent-spell--2142/) :smalleek:) the Vigor spells, you could double the amount healed (or gain really good fast healing with Persistent versions)!

[Randomocity132]

it only requires four feats: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), and Extra Turning. You get Extra Turning from the Undeath domain.

Looking at the feat description, it looks like I have to take Divine Metamagic twice; once for Persistent, and once for Extend.

[Barsoom]

Not really. First you apply Persistent Spell by paying for it with DMM, then you apply Extend Spell by paying for it with a spell-slot increase. So you can cast a Persisted Mass Lesser Vigor (lasts 1 day) from a 3rd level slot, or a Persisted Extended Mass Lesser Vigor (lasts 2 days) from a 4th level slot.

Standard operating procedure:
- On odd days, cast Persisted Extended Divine Favor (from a 2nd level slot), and Persisted Extended Divine Power (from a 5th level slot)
- On even days, cast Persisted Extended Mass Lesser Vigor (from a 4th level slot) and Persisted Extended Elation (from a 3rd level slot)

All four spells are in effect all the time.

[Randomocity132]

I would swap out False Prophet and Improved Toughhness for Extend Spell and Persistent Spell, and perhaps either Augment Undead or Hardened Flesh (where did you get Augment Undead, by the way?) for Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell.

Just found that the feat was actually from Libris Mortis.

Also that I can't use Divine Metamagics. Barring those, any other suggestions?

[Fouredged Sword]

Fell animate on a spell that makes a weapon (produce flame or such) can turn a bunch of almost dead creatures into zombies at no cost.

[Saintheart]

Just found that the feat was actually from Libris Mortis.

Also that I can't use Divine Metamagics. Barring those, any other suggestions?

Why can't you use Divine Metamagic? Is it DM fiat? Remember that DMM is fuelled by either turn or rebuking undead...

Even without DMM, plain old Extend Spell. You're at level 10: at CL 10 and above Extend Spell becomes ever-more useful on hour/level spells, of which the cleric has access to several good ones: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Nondetection, Greater Resistance, Mass Conviction in particular. Persisting a spell takes either 4 turn undead uses or 4 spell levels, which gets you to 24 hour spell durations. However: if you're level 12, your hour/level spells last 12 hours a day already, and an Extended spell only consumes one spell slot higher to double a spell's duration. Hey presto, you now have effectively Persisted spells without having to blow much higher spell level slots.

[Randomocity132]

Why can't you use Divine Metamagic? Is it DM fiat? Remember that DMM is fuelled by either turn or rebuking undead...

Even without DMM, plain old Extend Spell. You're at level 10: at CL 10 and above Extend Spell becomes ever-more useful on hour/level spells, of which the cleric has access to several good ones: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Nondetection, Greater Resistance, Mass Conviction in particular. Persisting a spell takes either 4 turn undead uses or 4 spell levels, which gets you to 24 hour spell durations. However: if you're level 12, your hour/level spells last 12 hours a day already, and an Extended spell only consumes one spell slot higher to double a spell's duration. Hey presto, you now have effectively Persisted spells without having to blow much higher spell level slots.

Campaign limits