Not Enough Wizard Spells--What Should I Do?

[Amaril]

So I need some advice. In the Pathfinder game I'm playing right now, my transmuter wizard is just about to hit 5th level, when I start getting access to some of my really cool spells. But recently, I've started running into a bit of a problem--because this is a more low-magic setting than most, there haven't really been any opportunities to find or buy more spells to add to my book, and due to various circumstances, I don't really have the time or the money to research more spells independently. One of my favorite things about wizards (and I'm given to understand this is one of the key strengths of the class) is their ability to learn massive numbers of spells so they can be prepared for any situation, and I don't really feel like I'm able to do that as well as I'd like given my limited spell selection--it's been seeming a little like I might have been better off playing a sorcerer.
The one way I have available to overcome this is through a houserule that we're using in this game that allows me to spend skill points when I level up to learn additional spells (I can't remember the exact details, and there's some confusion on the campaign website about where they are, so I can't check them right now). I'm reluctant to take advantage of that option, since I don't have a huge amount of extra skill points to spend, but I'm worried that complaining to my DM about not having enough spells when he's provided a way to get more just because I don't like that way of doing it would be immature, particularly because I knew going in that this would be a relatively low-magic world without a lot of spell shops (I expected to find a few spellbooks or scrolls lying around in ruins as loot, but there really hasn't even been that). So, what should I do about this? Should I spend the skill points on extra spells? Should I talk to my DM about it? Do I even need to worry about not having enough spells to do what a wizard is supposed to do?

[CaladanMoonblad]

So... there are no scrolls in the loot that you claim for yourself? There are no other wizards that sell scrolls? There is absolutely no opportunity in your GM's game, where you have a single 20 minute break from action to make copies of spells into your spellbook with gold ink?

Sounds like you need to talk to your GM about your concerns, rather than use a house rule. : /

[sleepyphoenixx]

It sounds like your dm did that intentionally to limit the wizards power,
so it probably isn't a good idea to try to get around it.
You don't need all that many spells to stay effective so spending the occasional skillpoint shouldn't hurt too much.
A wizard is dominating more than enough in a low magic campaign anyway.

[Amaril]

So... there are no scrolls in the loot that you claim for yourself? There are no other wizards that sell scrolls? There is absolutely no opportunity in your GM's game, where you have a single 20 minute break from action to make copies of spells into your spellbook with gold ink?

Sounds like you need to talk to your GM about your concerns, rather than use a house rule. : /

The only spells I've found as loot so far are a book containing message (a cantrip I automatically knew) and a scroll of gust of wind, which I did learn, but that's just one second-level spell (and not a very useful one at that). The only friendly arcane spellcaster we've met is my father, who already taught me most of what I know about magic and wants me to start learning more independently, so he won't be giving me more spells any time soon. When I checked the rules for researching new spells, it said that doing so typically takes at least a week and costs about 1000 gp per level of the spell, which is money our group doesn't have.

[Amaril]

It sounds like your dm did that intentionally to limit the wizards power,
so it probably isn't a good idea to try to get around it.
You don't need all that many spells to stay effective so spending the occasional skillpoint shouldn't hurt too much.
A wizard is dominating more than enough in a low magic campaign anyway.

I've suspected he might be trying to limit me, which I guess I can understand, but in this case it's a little useless to do so because two of the four of us are insanely over-optimized and have steamrollered almost everything in their paths so far, and I've been one of the weakest members of the group to this point.
If my memory serves, one additional spell costs 5 skill points, and the most I can get at one level is 7 (2 plus my 4 Int bonus plus 1 from favored class), so getting even one more spell would mean basically not being able to advance my skills that level. Not something I'm eager to do.

[Glimbur]

Are you still getting your automatic spells when you level up?

[Amaril]

Are you still getting your automatic spells when you level up?

Yeah, I'm planning on taking fly and dispel magic once I hit 5th, and then beast shape I and either fireball or lightning bolt once I get to 6th, assuming I haven't picked any of those up already.

[Lightlawbliss]

unless i'm forgetting something: If wizards exist then scrolls exist. If scrolls exist and people want scrolls then there will be people selling scrolls.

[Arbane]

Talk to your GM first.

When that fails, see if you can get one of your friends to roll up a wizard, and swap spells.

[HalfQuart]

Yeah, I'm planning on taking fly and dispel magic once I hit 5th, and then beast shape I and either fireball or lightning bolt once I get to 6th, assuming I haven't picked any of those up already.
I don't know anything about Pathfinder, but it seems to me that Dispel Magic might be a poor choice in a low-magic campaign... have you seen much to dispel so far? Or maybe it would be good because enemy casters would have a low caster level, so checks would be easy? In 3.5 I really like Stinking Cloud, Haste, and Slow for 3rd level spells (the last two being Transmutation).. Again, dunno about Pathfinder. It sounds like you've already got some good damage dealers in your party, so maybe focus on buff/debuff/control instead?

[Asrrin]

I would take dips into PrC's that grant spells known like a sorcerer would. Or use Feats to grab more spells known. in fact, here is a guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2777) to expanding your spells known list. Always a good read for sorcerers, but Wizards in a low magic campaign can benefit as well.

[Segev]

It might be instructive to rebuild your character as a sorcerer just to compare. See what you would lose, see what you would gain, and see if your wizard measures up.

If your DM isn't swayed by that, and you're still unhappy, I suggest, at 6th level, you plan to take Leadership. Arrange to find as your cohort a frightened youth who is outcast and shunned for his malign nature. That nature being that he's a sorcerer. As a wizard, you can at least train him to understand WHAT he is doing, even if not quite the how. Now, you not only have a sorcerer to back you up, who can write scrolls to let you put them in your spellbook, but you also have a backup character to play if your wizard actually dies due to his relative weakness compared to his level.

And either way, you've got some deeper hooks in the plot of the world, if you can work with your DM to get the apprentice cohort tied to it in a way that your wizard can help with.

[Amaril]

Thanks for all the advice everybody :smallsmile: I've talked to my DM about it, and he told me that I'll start finding more spells once we start going to places where they would logically be found (I took this to mean "once you're higher level"). He did reassure me, at least, that he hasn't just forgotten that I need spells to stay effective, which is one thing I was worried about maybe being the case.

Unfortunately, PrCs aren't exactly much of an option for this game, or at least not one that would solve this problem--my DM is being pretty restrictive about the ones allowed, and the only one on the list that I might consider taking is the Alchemist, which wouldn't give me extra spells.

The dispel magic thing did occur to me, but I feel compelled to take it because on another thread, somebody made the comment to me that fireball and dispel magic are the two spells anyone will ask you to cast to prove you're really a wizard. Haste does seem like an awesome choice too, though--I'm just worried that if I don't take dispel magic when I gain a level, I might never find a copy of it anywhere else. It strikes me as one of those spells that, even if you only use it once, it's worth taking just for that because the consequences of not having it that time you needed it could be catastrophic. Is that true?

[icefractal]

Eh - you might want to have Dispel at some point, but I wouldn't call it essential. Haste would probably pay off more in the near future. In fact, I'm not even sure about Fireball. If the party doesn't have other sources of good AoE damage, then it serves a definite purpose against swarms/mobs and such - but against most foes, its damage is going to be unimpressive compared to the two high-op characters.

As for proving you're really a Wizard - it's a low magic setting, I imagine most people would be impressed to see spells at all. And you probably want to be a bit secretive about what exactly you can do anyway.

[Amaril]

Eh - you might want to have Dispel at some point, but I wouldn't call it essential. Haste would probably pay off more in the near future. In fact, I'm not even sure about Fireball. If the party doesn't have other sources of good AoE damage, then it serves a definite purpose against swarms/mobs and such - but against most foes, its damage is going to be unimpressive compared to the two high-op characters.

As for proving you're really a Wizard - it's a low magic setting, I imagine most people would be impressed to see spells at all. And you probably want to be a bit secretive about what exactly you can do anyway.

I would've said the same thing about fireball before our last session, when our fighter/cleric and rogue/diviner were both almost killed by a massed mob of orcs. It might never be useful again, but you can be damn sure my character is gonna look up some AOE damage solutions after something like that. Haste is sounding more and more attractive, though, and it's exactly the kind of spell my character prefers...I'll definitely think about it.

Funnily enough, half the orcs ran away once they saw me jump out from behind a curtain and start firing magic missiles :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Even with just the two free spells per level you should have more than enough ammunition to be effective. More is always nice of course but make sure you're getting those. Also, you can try using your share of the treasure to research existing wizard spells during downtime - you don't have to find every spell to learn it.

[Stormageddon]

It's always a problem when the DM says low magic world and someone says I'm going to play wizard. Low magic worlds + I want to play arcane caster = play a sorcerer. But it sounds like you worked out someone thing with your DM.

[Psyren]

It's always a problem when the DM says low magic world and someone says I'm going to play wizard. Low magic worlds + I want to play arcane caster = play a sorcerer. But it sounds like you worked out someone thing with your DM.

Well, there's other options too like Elven Generalist.

[Namfuak]

I would've said the same thing about fireball before our last session, when our fighter/cleric and rogue/diviner were both almost killed by a massed mob of orcs. It might never be useful again, but you can be damn sure my character is gonna look up some AOE damage solutions after something like that. Haste is sounding more and more attractive, though, and it's exactly the kind of spell my character prefers...I'll definitely think about it.

Funnily enough, half the orcs ran away once they saw me jump out from behind a curtain and start firing magic missiles :smallbiggrin:

Against a mob of orcs, any aoe spell that is save or suck is probably going to be better than straight damage. As HalfQuart mentioned, stinking cloud will make all of orcs unable to take any actions besides moving out of the cloud, while fireball will just make them slightly less healthy and a lot more angry. One comparison would be using tear gas against a riot versus rubber bullets.

It sounds like your DM is willing to play ball with you, so this is really something you should figure out with him first. I can say with high certainty that almost any skillpoint cost will probably be worth getting extra spells.

[Spuddles]

Discounting 1st level spells, a wizard without access to any extra source of spells and a sorcerer have virtually the same number of spells known. Sorcerers lag a couple levels behind in catching up with the wizard.

You may seriously consider rerolling sorcerer if your DM is going to nerf you this hard as a wizard.

Most of the practical optimization that comes from being a wizard is access to a variety of spells. And as a transmuter, it's not like you have particularly egregious offensive spells, anyway.

[HalfQuart]

Fireball DOES have it's uses.. Like say if you're totally overrun by a huge number of low CR enemies, you can drop a fireball in the middle of your party. The PCs can suck up the 20/10 damage from your 5d6 fireball, but that will clear out a huge swath of 1 HD orcs or kobolds or whatever. It's better to have a scroll around for that, though, since (at least in my experience) that's a pretty rare event.

Although maybe in your low magic campaign you'll see more challenges with large numbers of foes, and not so many with 1-3 bigger ones. Dunno.